tariffs and they're being ready for another round of talks but they're not giving any specific details out do you think the deal is really that incredible as trump says it is. despite the fact that trump said it it might be true. and i think that this was worked out for the g. twenty by various cabinet officials. and i think we're starting to see the chinese announced. purchases of more agricultural goods i suspect you will see them also announced purchases of long term natural gas. there announced in the opening over a range of sectors to foreign investment and i think the most set of issues around technology. we're beginning to see things at least being talked about. most of the things that the us has demanded if you go back and read the

speeches she jinping has made going back to the one nine hundred forty congress if he actually did what he said there wouldn't be much of a problem and i think now he's being tested and that's not just the united states i think that china's mercantile those policies have been. a source of concern in europe in japan and elsewhere that the chinese are just kind of overplayed their hand and. even when there's a quiet debate amongst the chinese elite were one worrying that she has overplayed his hand i think we're beginning to see him walking it back a little let's let let's bring this back into the realm of u.s. and china relations because i do agree what you're saying the europe and japan but i want to talk more about china and the u.s. because meanwhile look at the talks are in progress and second round of talks are somewhat close but meanwhile the daughter of the founder of the tech giant weiwei

is also second in command there has been arrested at a request for american requests for violating u.s. trade rules and in tehran sanctions i mean why ways think they were china's government and even though china says that they are us want stop the trade talks with washington why they need to complicate things i mean there's we're just getting better you're just about to hammer out a day you are so. what this arrest derailed your lot of negotiations well i think you're assuming more coherence within the u.s. government than might be. prudent. we have an independent judiciary the justice department does it in fact trump didn't even know she was arrested at the time he was having dinner with she had the g twenty cannot tell bolton said that he didn't pass the news of imminent or asked to present trauma to understand that you know president shouldn't be looking into every single detail

there are things going on with this one this is a big deal well it's like bill gates dollar being arrested in china for or something like that. right but i don't i don't think you have a similar situation and some of the chinese have a lot more control over all those sorts of things i think also the justice department announced a whole range of sanctions. against chinese hacking exercises and so on this is part of a long broader u.s. attempt. to push back on chinese. technology mercantile the stealing i.p.r. steel and so on over the and. i think obviously using it as leverage in these trade talks but i do think that you have two very large the two largest economies in the world very intertwined in ways that you

have some people in the top of ministration that are very anti china that want to an economic divorce. i would note that. in a rare occasion jumpers actually appoint somebody to be in charge of. the u.s. p.r. wise guys or and because all of his advisors have debt and they lie has or says he wants more tariffs again china and says that trade war should be evaded and then you have peter navarro who is a trade advisor he says that be careful how deal so ultimately who decides what to do well as i say that i think that's why they appointed allies hisor i think for the chinese it's been very troubling because historically on our china policy there's been somebody in charge so the chinese know who to go to for example in the bush administration there was treasury secretary paulson so and we had

a pretty good way of managing these issues in the ministration no one's in charge and there's several different voices with different policies and strong very difficult for the chinese with a first they made a deal with commerce secretary ross and then. vetoed it then they made the treasury deal with our treasury secretary and from veto that so from the chinese perspective it's like what do we have to do we talked to and i think now if i think begun mansour that question with the appointment of light i want to get back a little bit on the arrests of the owner of that why way. like i said for me it's like an analogy as if bill gates was arrested in china for preaching chinese trade trolls surely it would make the us given more concessions to china if that were to happen i feel like why do americans think they can strongarm beijing like that. well she wasn't arrested the way the chinese are picked up canadians in retaliation

she was. she was taken into custody because of vital sanctions violations in terms of. fraud weiwei conducted in doing business with iran through a subsidy that i read i can't just like stop for a second to note is that companies like ericsson and samsung call so south to iran are being sanctioned and people are being arrested from them i mean this is hardly it's only always disappointed ical thing because you know the prosecution is very selective. i think we've sanctioned a lot of other countries. but i'm talking about companies i just gave you two examples some broad areas they're selling iraq i think wawa has a problem not just with the united states over the past several months they've been rejected in the u.k. in. new zealand australia japan is now in the process of thinking of doing away with wa is a five g.

carrier so i think there's a lot of concern about chinese technology practices more broadly and i think that's one of the reasons we're beginning to see these trade talks kind of get traction because that i think the chinese chinese big is not that different from american big if you're ali baba or baidu or ten cent you want access to global markets china is only fourteen percent of her so of the world market they want access to the other eighty six percent and i suspect that they will the fact that they're being shut out of markets that their efforts to acquire by f.b.i. tech firms has been rejected a number of countries has probably gone to the leadership in china maybe this isn't working so well. so the white house has given beijing ninety days to as they put it

to actually make things right and that means reform their technology rules open up to your services but i mean these are the demands that u.s. has battling with china now for decades i mean is it naive to think that in ninety days it's just going to all go all be good yeah well i would be surprised if that happened in ninety days i think i think the way some people in ministration are looking at it it's more like a trial or a trial period they want to be able in ninety days to see if the chinese are serious this time about actually following through on commitments you know they made a number of commitments she pledged to obama the stop. the cyber hacking. didn't happen in fact it's been increasing in recent months so i think she has a credibility problem and not just with the united states and so i think there's ninety days will serve as. a way for the us to make a judgment about whether the chinese are serious or so the americans they've been

actually complaining about china pinching american technology for ears right it helped foster technological progress but now they're investing more and more in research and they're producing more tech graduates in america and europe taken together will china have a need to play loose with the foreign technology anymore well i think china is no longer i think they're leading i think they've done a major report on global innovation where i called china the new silicon valley and i think that we're seeing in a number of areas in terms of and all you can see the metrics in terms of number of patents number of scientific papers and so on. in some areas in the artificial intelligence and others in the lead the world in payments half the electronic payments in the world occur in china something like forty two million so you know i think it's. become

a serious actor on their own and i think their attitudes on i.p.r. are changing because now they have their own i.p.r. to protect. so here's the thing he said that american and chinese markets are so intertwined and their economies are so closely working together they need each other they need each other's markets investors how far can the two even push each other until it gets to a point where they'll be shooting themselves into the foot well i think i think you'll see a slightly diminished relationship but i think it's more than the bilateral issue the u.s. and china account for about. forty five percent of all world trade if the two largest trading powers are playing by different rules what kind of intellect international architecture and your regime trade regime what's the future of the w t l so these are big global issues and i think that how this plays out will have a big impact both regionally and globally on the trade architecture around the

world so any beginning of twenty eight hundred you are at that current global trade regime is at risk you're referring to trumps protectionism unilateral action towards w t o pax like t p pinata but you know air is coming to a close and we actually see that u.s. china progress is here and that they're talking that there is there enough to talks and then you know people are selling are still lying. would you still say that the world trade system is in danger. yes i think is very much in danger the world the crown jewel of the w t o the dispute mechanism. is is a risk the u.s. has blocked new judges because a want as a as a way to leverage reform and we have less than a year to go if we don't get this fixed. system may not be working and then we're back to. instead of rules based trade power based trade we're going to take

a break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to robert manning the former advisor to the u.s. government stay with us. dimension again six thirty maybe ever but career. and a career involves using your i phone in your computer and things like that being in an office and perhaps you sort of getting going it's circular to you're going to have to stop doing all of this i mean this kind of you look at the minutes must be from my world became smaller and smaller and smaller until i ended up living it and

the box. around it a very strong magnetic field on the field in my head. it's like a real hard pressure my skin burned and that wireless access point is there it's just continuous on saying what are students in the schools. we are just continually bathing our citizens in this microwave radiation it is certainly electro small and it's getting worse. all movement is going mobile bankers are. rightfully seen. the enemy full stop. what holds his hands do something to. put themselves on the line big get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or interim. or somehow want to be

rich. but you're going to be the person that's what the before three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters of our. question. join me every thursday on the all excitement and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sport i'm sure i'll see you then. and we're back with robert manning for aware of the u.s. government and participant of the twenty eight thousand and we're tracked

international conference i'm sure manning this approach to or china hawkish approach it's not just in terms of economy right also hardware as well because with the sea this in south china sea there's already too many more bomber flies and warships sailing back and forth can the trade war sali to actually go to an easing of tensions in terms of the region well i think the old consensus going back to the next in the opening is gone. i think up until trial and all its previous american presidents felt that what we're trying to success was good for the united states trump was the first one who had a different view on that and. i think. trade the trade had been the foundation of the relationship the strongest advocates for us china relations were the u.s. business community and if you go back over the last several years and read u.s. chamber of commerce and beijing or shanghai there are reports they found them

harder and harder to do business more and more and more and the. this this concerted efforts and frustration and so they're they're less supportive if you get if we have a new trade arrangements with china that may build a new foundation for war stable relations i think broadly the if there's a u.s. as a problem in accepting the rise of china no matter what they do i think a lot of people in the u.s. some money the status quo is eternal designs and what is america's end goal and the south china region and south china sea. well you know on the chinese are the ones who signed the law the sea treaty and then decided to interpret it kind of on our card sort of basis and you know they pledged to obama that they wouldn't alter ised the south china sea and they built i was serious of military bases building up to

spirit eyelets i think it. i think the u.s. and china both have a problem that neither side has answered what i see as two basic questions i will shape the future of the chinese assumption is the u.s. is now a liar and then eventually to leave and they're positioning themselves to be a dominant power in the region the u.s. seems to think that its network of alliances and presence in the region. which is only been there for the last seventy years if you think about the last five thousand years of asian history there have been three different kinds of security systems for a long time it was chinese tributary system then we had an period. the system and beginning in the twentieth century and after world war two it's been an american dominance and from an asian perspective that's that's a short period of time it's not the norm it's the exception and so i think the

question is what type of chinese presence and role is acceptable to the u.s. and the flip flopper on the other way for china. once they understand americans are not leaving or a pacific power what type of american role in presence can china live with those are two big strategic questions that neither side has answered. and on its own right beijing is active in the south china sea it has an arsenal to counter u.s. carriers when you know that i did building a blue water navy to i think china is being realistic with well it's capabilities match it's. you know i think that nobody talks about this but i think the peel away in china is fairly uncomfortable because they haven't fought a war since one thousand fifty three really and cheese dead in them or aggressive actions that are putting them in proximity with american forces on the likelihood

of an x. in the clash escalating is going up and so on and i think a lot of people in the chinese military leadership who have never fought a war and you have all these fancy new toys and they've never actually tried to see if they all work together are a little uncomfortable being put in that position right so according to president china is also to blame for the apparent lack of progress with u.s. and north korea relations jeffrey no he's that's just not true i think frankly the fact that the chinese and russia both supported un sanctions. were what created the kind of pressure that led to the developments we've seen over the last really since january first and. so i think china has done actually more than i think trump had unrealistic expectations of what china can do our interests in china overlap on the korean peninsula but they're not the same

china puts more value on stability and the us puts more emphasis on denuclearization and i think the way trump has done this has really given the way the store i think the kim john deserves the diplomatic man of the year award for the way he's really dictated the whole pace of the plough in the sea since his january first speech to a deal with the olympics in seoul and the way manipulated trying to have you know for trump the summit was the ultimate reality t.v. show well right now that the second talks where they consul and with no further dates given for the next summit what will it take to restart the process well i think that they've made a number of mistakes were they the u.s. had first. met with the leadership i think it was taken as a signal both in growth moscow and beijing that it was ok to normalize relations

with north korea and so by and the u.s. by defining it as a bilateral issue remember we had six party talks for a while that didn't know them and the achieve their objective but that did show the major powers could cooperate and for their interest overlap and trumps walked away from that and defend dealt with it as a bilateral u.s. north korea issue which i think is a mistake because you can't solve this without china and russia being involved for example on the nuclear issue the i can only monitor fissile material and facilities they can't deal with nuclear weapons that's something the perm five and and three of the perm five have in the b. in northeast asia the u.s. china and russia which ought to be talking to the. other nuclear weapons states north east asia about how do how do we go about moving fissile material out of north korea how do we dismantle nuclear weapons that's not going to happen

magically and i think to the degree that even japan has been our ally japan has been cut out of the diplomacy and so even there quietly trying to meet with north korea and so on because we have i to north of the solve this we have to have a coordinated multilateral approach and it's not happening and i think even within the u.s. government there's a gap between trump and his the whole korea team under secretary pompei o who are much more skeptical of kim's intentions than president trump who said he fell in love well i mean john bolton. surely. another north korean summit needs to be held. to deliver on its promises to do nuclearized and the june summit was really a purely for the show but the reality was it was worse than that because it if you read the statement that they put out it was so vague that it didn't provide any guidance for how to how to put together

a diplomatic process that actually realize any other name will bring any tangible result i think it's a mistake to have a summit at all. yes unless. the north koreans have boycotted the two meetings that secretary pompei oh it's called they. they were invited to geneva by . our north korea special representative pushed into days of vienna waiting and they never showed up so i think they're playing trump against his own government you know if they're smart well i think i think. the root of the problem is mary somewhere in a different place on paper piano wants to normalize relations with us on paper promising to do nuclear as in return for washington to nuclear ization comes first . could that be the root of the problem well that policy is not going to work i mean the north koreans whatever you think of their view they have been consistent

from day one they said that we want to phased synchronous a process which is the only way can happen because there's so much deep distrust on both sides that when we had the six party talks which i was somewhat involved in it was called action for action because the only way you build trust is if we do something and they do something and we each was respond and that's the only way i can see it working and if the u.s. thinks north korea is going to give a pause nukes and trust us to respond after they. after we pocket all the all the concessions that's just not going to happen but also sees nukes as the only real that harrington against american invasion well i mean. given them up demanding them for a leap of faith i can i will tell you that i can understand if i was north korea and i'm i want to feel as a deterrent however i think you have a young leader who's thirty three years old unlike his father he wants to be around

for a few decades and he knows in order to do that he has to modernize its economy and if he has to trade some of his weapons of mass destruction or all of them to get that i think there have been and there's been a lot of progress in north south korea and reconciliation and i think the i can see how you could i can see a solution but i'm not sure how you get there because of the deep distrust on both sides and when the white house says we want a front loaded. solution and when you ask them well do you have front load of benefits for north korea if they give you all these things you get a blank stare and so i think i'm not sure that they've really thought through how how this kind of the placebo works. you said earlier that neither china or america have answered. main questions of why they are in this situation they are so for me

for china north korea is arguably a buffer against u.s. troops right on its border and a point of leverage with the us and actually for the rest of the world to a degree for the united states this is a pretext to keep troops in asia and also project power in more power in asia so the way it looks to me i mean the prospect of war maybe is there but it's very unlikely it seems that this status quo is actually working for both powers at this point is there any really any will to change things i think. it's not just the united states that's uncomfortable with no clear north korea as a way nuclear weapon state the chinese would prefer that she had the nuclear korean peninsula as well and so would a real japan and i think russia as well. doesn't look forward to more nuclear powers in the world so. but you have

a point that. in the near term. the status quo it's particularly because. they've as the diplomacy has started the things that were provoking the us testing a long range ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons has stopped so there's less the tensions are lower nerves less pressure and so that's why i think the u.s. ironically trump has adopted the same policy as obama so called strategic patience a little they don't call it that but that's just if you listen to what trump and pompa are saying or no rush it's ok we're doing well. i think that's going to change and democrats are taking over the house next month and they're going to get hauled up to hearing still explain what they mean by all those great progress when in fact nothing is happening. right robert manning thank you very much for this interview it's interesting to see what's going to happen. first months to come

thank you. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race in this on offense spearing dramatic development only really i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk.

oh. yes well this is all the good. old. i. think it. was believed it was not.

even a little bit and that was very moving i was not and i don't believe that was really at the end a bit of a global i'm sure the job's good. because i'm going to think. that. kosovo's move it to create its own army sees a session of the un security council called amid fears it could escalate tensions with serbia. the russian foreign ministry heads out of the b.b.c. saying its work smacks of cynicism that is after a message from one of their rip.