for watching the hawks. alone welcome to worlds apart here's president throne old reagan once cried poland as having contributed mightily to european civilization while being magnificently i'm reconciled to oppression that seemed undisputedly true three decades ago when poland was the first country in eastern europe to throw all the shackles of

communism but is that still the case today when it is the first one to openly challenge the e.u. governments to discuss joined by they will now and polish director of the new c this is a new see a great privilege to welcome you here in moscow thank you very much for granting us some time to do i know that you are here for the festival of polish culture as well as a conference aimed at. advancing the dialogue between our two nations don't you find it a kind of sci fi and task in this day and age it's always is because there is never enough so it's not true when political relationship is very strong. culture has to have a chance to substitute political contacts and that's why i think old people of culture should try to contribute to this dialogue to continue this dialogue and you know there is a discussion especially in the western world that by participating in and cultural events you may be. if not. legitimize it.

is that we have experience of the fifty's of the studies time and the crucial time the so and i know that there was no profit if if there was no died there was no advantage because the symbolic gesture means something in the very short term but it doesn't mean very much on the long term so i don't believe that we should avoid contacts even if the country is in the company and i don't think it's. in the russian politics by simple fact that they fret when they join various various cultural events in russia you say that politically our countries are in conflict but found with claim that in terms of political trajectory poland is actually moving closer to russia than to the european union because of the

so-called. rollback on democracy or the advance of authoritarianism and do you see that. i think it is a wrong perception we are following not a very good example of italy because we have a rather populist government this is something for this from the most liberal democracy does not function well. we are still very far from authoritarian rule and there are many democratic institutions who don't work but it will be important so i am definitely both improved by the whole world because also america has problems with this kind of the. we enjoyed i have many years i have a lot of questions but first of all let me start if you're a because russia is often blamed for. misbehaving europeans being the taliban's all let's say that. it's also blamed for for example for the chap.

but i think poland provides a very convenient alibi for the kremlin because nobody can blame. for the polish developments and. i wonder what what exactly is driving all those changes that we see in so many countries and how big is russia's role russia. is just part is different from the rest of the world and that's why. we have. if there's in the reason to blame russia for what is happening in poland of course there was you know well stories of secret service and so on so long this is again a world apart it doesn't want to see the two have to make any comment about it it does exist we know it's and it does exist university but development in poland which is to me a lead to be. i would say it doesn't make me feel comfortable but it is not a data alarming as it seems to be from the far distance it is

a process in which this structure of the market is evolving but i think the next elections will prove that some things may go back to normal it's no this is the basic institutions of democracy the free vote and we have seen free press we have free televisions so there is no reason to make such a because i'm well i think one of the reasons why people i saw alarmed is because poland was the first country. had article. invoked and it's interesting to me because it was also the first country to kind of for all of the of the communism government take it to go what is it about the polish psyche that makes it very ballad supranational institutions while being part of them don't very much rebel is saying we're very grateful to european union the development. is a good tool to discipline government seized to go beyond the ideals of european union

and our government made already quite a few concessions and steps back under the pressure of international international law if you remain defined on a number of key issues for example the issue of the of the judges and the issue of the court so i think the theme of summer in tampa theme of nationalism if your will is also again. momentum in your country is it not not especially not more than in other countries look i'm friends with. and look into the. north the leg i know this is a process which is. universal because globalization scare people and from another you know talk to lay person and alter pathologist but they have to see intuition and many people confirm the deal that the power is slowly shifting all

over the world towards corporations and not governments corporations are not democratic so maybe does the something on the horizon that will be run by corporations and not by nations so distant swarms swansong what we here know the nineteenth century attachment to the narrow national national entity well let's go with on that attachment to and their own national attitude at least in the case of poland was over in decades ago i mean as you said poland is one of the countries that benefited the most from being part of the european union exactly and we are very happy that we are part of the bigger organism and we shared the same. i guess my point is that there is this sliding towards if you will political conservatism that we see in many countries if you mention it actually began i think to disagree because those who services are in opposition they are not

was the government got a say in the end of the law and justice party also describes itself as just understand this as a conservative party and if they say. it is not legitimate because the relationship is the goal something. basic for conservatives. and the leaders of course there it is also but the saltimbocca they're all in opposition let me call down the populist in any in any key. everybody is ridiculous for a little bit they had of the british populace and the american populace because that party came to power had a break in two thousand and fifteen before the backside road before the election of donald trump so in many ways i think poland is it at the forefront of those changes that was my exact point do you attribute that only to disappointment with the economic system or do you see that also as a political development perhaps the crisis of the liberal democracy and well the

crisis of the bigger than democracy is has been noticed universally konami potent is doing quite well so of course the well it's always problematic and. up to no run by people who are who are winners and losers wants to have their say and that's a populistic term but i think again it is it is i don't feel comfortable in this situation but i think it is not alarming as it seems to be from the foreign perspective well especially from the russian perspective and i think you sometimes tend to exaggerate things but you know in this country this income inequality thing was very very damaging because it was exploited at the century more than a century ago by the bolsheviks and it led the country down a very brain path that we haven't fully recovered yet. do you see any risk for history repeating itself in other countries not really because the

contras the social contracts of the russia of the wall were really very dramatic today such contras you may find them in africa you may find them in some places in the show but not in europe not in united states well in the united states income inequality is one of the highest in russia today it's one of the highest in the world the contrast between the haves and have nots right the contras is the. there but even these who have not are not dying of hunger are not starving on the street so the average level is much higher than ever in the past and we need some new solutions and some new ways of i've seen in america people who're. considering the concept that before you go to devote you have to prove that you know what you are voting for it seems to be undemocratic in fact it is them across to you because when you have no idea what you vote for your vote may be

bought by somebody who will pay you you must know what you are voting and that's so easy to have a test before voting if you know what kind of test i mean what you ask people to make them qualify for. what program each candidate is proposing the main the key issues of the program if you know what they are you can vote for him but understand the. potential for nasa from any place because you can describe political programs of donald trump or hillary clinton in dozens of different ways and who would be the judge of what is the accurate way of describing. my job to do the police told which is who should prepare it i don't know something which is a vague idea on the horizon but it shows the concern about the vote the popular vote and the emancipation of masses is a very universal concern we must find new ways to express our desires you said in

one interview that over the years you growing and being afraid of idealist will lose the human touch with ideas. left to other people and i know that partially at least has been here only experience as a as a philosopher as a creative person but don't you think that this is in a way what was happening with the liberal idea in general good them afraid of because you do there is a period of life everybody who is young to some extent it's an idea. for me the greatest task is to preserve your ideals to the end of your life which is far more difficult not to become cynical i see that people who have this fixation on ideas are very often quite dangerous because. do your puerile so they attract other people but the media make lots of damage last time i interviewed here i ask you a lot about libya and the president obama was. crucial to making decisions

on invading that country or not invading on deposing that country of a horrible later somebody who is dealt a lot of the issues of good and bad. are you more comfortable with competent evil or incompetent good well it is a very dangerous toys picture is that we often have to make especially people in power yes but it's always plights to do given situation and given circumstances basically speaking i think that the competent competent evil made me more damage is culpable for the neighborhood but it's not a cult it's not good for people who are under this ship but we have no simple solutions and we have difficult solutions in politics so it is very difficult to judge what is the consequence of overthrowing.

saddam. or moammar get out of gadhafi but the story goes from the historical perspective definitely this dictator has. lots of people to their own people mr anderson we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. most people thing to stand out in this business you need to be the first one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand out in the news business you just need to ask the right questions and demand

the right answer. question. welcome back to worlds apart they were now always direct actions and i think just as innocent before the break i ask you about barack obama i'm sure on a personal level you have far more affinity many people in russia do as well because he was a far more likable person he's now replaced by a much more controversial person but the person who doesn't try to break down better than he. what do you make of don't trunk. will have been brought up

with the principle no emotions. having put it to sions is this a was my medical doctor i want him to do his job i don't need to like so i try not to attach any particular person feelings maybe something technical objections they would have because i would like politicians to look very charming but if no doubt i just try to judge the results and not the person that's actually a very very russian approach. that's what the kremlin says all along that regardless of how he comes across or sleeps with i'm sorry for mentioning that you need to judge him by a by his genes don't you think that you're perhaps letting off your ideals a little note here is not at all because i don't attach any feedings if we were talking about my secret feelings then i would talk about another values other

values but in politics history is a judge and history will judge whose presidency was and if you've been there has been a victory to the nation and to the globe. it which was not. for a lot of people in the western wall donald trump represents a dangerous kind of politician and i think there is a very interesting debate in a in the western world about how you deal with the idea that if you don't like or that you deem dangerous it's actually very similar to the soviet dilemma in the late soviet. time chose to deliver the use of military force i think the liberal community now chooses shaming and ostracizing anything those kind of methods are going to be effective. will as long as the popular vote is decisive the sixty million people who voted for him. so it means he peeled

feedings because they were probably booting feedings not seeing the interests. of the results economy good results first of all is america going to group no or maybe don't and what is the rule of america in the global. equity group to still have to judge this difficult judgment from what we know the american economy is growing pretty well but i think the fear is that to hear from many economists is that much of the growth goes to do wealthiest people and not benefiting. the middle class or the poor. i'm sorry for making so many comparisons for the soviet union but you know that the soviet system ultimately collapsed not only because of its i don't want to call deficiences but also because it didn't address the economic needs of the people it's what two people to the streets and we're seeing a lot of people on the streets of paris on the streets of hungry on the other in

other capitals of the western world do you think this balance between the economy and politics and how figures in the lives of people. we just changing about i think we should look one one step farther and ask is the permanent growth of economy possible because we don't have the resources to grow infinity one thousand years we were growing only one thousand years not before and now when you look back on the engine egypt four thousand years there was no noticeable growth grandson and grandfather had the same living standards we are now each generation is more wealthy than the previous generation while i question him by hanging him in the united states that distinctly it's not no longer the same as a little step backwards but when you see china or india then you see that this huge

huge country is. progressing but is there enough resources to give them all the same comfort that we have in europe that we have in america and if not how to motivate people when wealth is not the major motivation when the this is greed that's mr trump quoted in his speech about growth this greed may simply disappear why do you have five rooms if you have three but then this is a conversation off of the chinese but for western europeans do you think people would be willing she'll lower that living standards consciously to make sure that and the rest of the world catches up well this idea this i think is not a very very it's not very likely that it will ever be persuaded to do that but maybe circumstances will persuade us because the representation of the natural resources of the fresh clean air of the water will be so dramatic that

suddenly we will be forced to rethink what we are doing no interest in gold advertisement which is teaching us by more why we should buy less this would be far more progressive in the future. now let me ask you a couple of questions about your latest film if harry winston deals with the issue of human suffering and if ousting it and choice that the main protagonist makes one cheerier to that particular narrative at this point of time well it's very hard to see why an artist has an intuition that that's the momentum is no i wanted to say something about good and evil because i think post-modernism and all wars films are . going to last years because you know many artists make one work of art all their life long under different titles so i'm not an exception but this time we wanted to revoke the myth of follow. because it's so difficult because you have forgotten that they have a soul they will say about so it's

a different concept it's more metaphysical concept and this in metaphysics no is far more. in need and modern physics opened doors to the mystery and mystery is. the ground for all kind of religious sensitivity so altogether i think we are no much more open to. metaphysical intuitions than we were in one thousand sent in the twentieth century in this film and many others who deal with the issue of free will and the people's ability to make that choice between good and evil can you all always tell one from another in your own life not that easy to it's not easy i wouldn't bother to tell it to the others but this is a compliment for we we construct our results by our toys and the choices are between good and evil and sometimes we confuse one with another and sometimes there is another level which is a lie when we lie to ourselves we destroy ourselves and this is true to the

individual personal life and to the public and to the public life too due to political bad law is a great danger and we must consider it as a potties. when somebody chooses to endanger other people for personal gain that's essentially the story that you portray in that film it's clearly evil i mean the you don't even have to guess hard but when you make that choice for the larger good. biggest and most of the horrors of the twentieth century actually came out of that choice of a relatively small evil for the sake of the larger good. is that something that will continue and if chasing humanity in the years to come do you think we have over grown the propensity for large scale murder supposedly multi baited by the

greater good. new ethical system would allow us to accept such solution but is a question do we see something from orbit the physical perspective or do we see it on the on the short sighted perspective of everyday life if we are pragmatic of if we are. and i think without idealism humanity is not going to survive you filmed at least. in the ukraine. why did you choose that can share what impression it made on you today well first of all it was the subject matter. europe before world war it was. also hungary and empire and the conflict of two so that was a natural reason why i made this film as a cop production of a couple of central european countries was my impression well that cooperation. was

quite great easy as it was with hungary and to india and italy fortunately we somehow find a common language but of course the development of ukraine is most interesting development in contemporary europe because this is really the big nation is the process of defining itself because the. statehood many many centuries ago so far away that is almost forgotten now in the way they define as clearly as as an opposite to russia and if they were only define themselves as russian in the present time i think that would be understandable given the. the low level warfare that's going on there but they also define themselves as russian in the past i mean they may actually seek for national heroes like. they are or are

among the heaviest who fought not only against the nazis. also against this soviets and also committed large scale crimes against civilians including polish civilians isn't that also a choice in a way that you pick something that you like in a national hero but you ignore well we know the story universe even. more humans are overthrown in some countries some people to create the. problem to ireland spoke the same language as. bought the after world war one desperately wanted to separate after so many centuries of being part of the british commonwealth and they understand that there are many moments of disagreement for. these heroes are not easy to do with the work of share of duration

but it is the process of growth a group would see how deep the desire of being a separate nation will be crane and crane create its own full identity and if i may because you mentioned the issue of history i mean we see this process. in many parts of europe not only europe in poland obviously there is a communication process when you take away the statues to former. various communist symbols but also in the united states you see people taking down the confederate statues that. celebrated let's say slave owners why do you think this is such a global phenomenon and why are people taking. me as a current statement rather than the historic landmark. limburg you can apply this with this idea to remove that history and the confederation civil war in america is a long time ago while the humanisation is something that touches the living. people

so it's these really scum that was the names given to some streets this is a popular desire to have some basic sense of justice and respect to sub symbols. i'm not questioning this process and that's obviously the polish people's riot. was necessary for hygiene when you were passing by the monument of somebody who made lots of harm to people you somehow poisoned. and isn't that also something that keeps your memory of grave crime alive. respect and not memory it is in the newseum then it is. because in the middle of the street. thank you. so much time.

media. think placing time here. join me every day. and i'll be speaking to the world of politics or.

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