in the united states and russia are worse now than at any time since the one nine hundred fifty s. what's behind that claim and who if anyone does he think it improve the relationship between the two countries let's try and out as professor cohen joins me from new york his latest book is war with russia i'm showing it to you from putin and ukraine to trump and russia gate ok steve invasive words for joining us. i thought everything between russia and the united states was going to be better because of the relationship between putin and trump and the fact that russia wanted trump in the office. well i think larry you and i are what's called veterans of the previous cold war which lasted forty years it's kind of nice to talk with someone approximately of my generation i'm old women

you cause the oil i don't know about that you look but you look better so where are the same generation the point is is that the younger generation didn't live through the preceding cold war it's history to them so they don't understand or feel the need to explain how we ended up in a new cold war particularly since we were told you and i and we told our kids who are now in their twenty's when the soviet union and communism ended in one thousand nine hundred one we were now going to have friendship and partnership in fact clinton's presidency bill clinton's presidency his policy with boris yeltsin then president a post that russia was premised on this notion that we now have and i quote a strategic partnership and friendship with russia and yet today what is it i can't do the math but going on thirty years later we are told in washington that russia

is now a axis stench or an excess tensional enemy of the united states and a grave danger to our national security so that's what my book tries to deal with because it was written during these last five years when things got worse and yet it's not easy to explain george w. bush said i looked into his eyes and i trust him who obviously interfered in our elections he wanted trump in office. and you're going so far over some call a book war with russia washington wrong what went wrong. so you and i there a have a history here which you may not fully remember when trump we came the candidate in two sixteen before the election you invited me on to comment on what i thought might mean for relations with russia i don't know if you remember that i do

and i said something that upset many of my liberal progressive friends that i was not going to vote for trump on i didn't approve of a lot of things he said and did and maybe most things but when he campaigned and i quoting on the need to cooperate with russia i thought that was very very important because by two sixteen relations with russia had become dangerous mrs clinton on the other hand during the campaign promised a very hard line toward toward russia even going so far as to bomb syria where both were russian troops were operating that would have been an act of war against russia so i said to you on the air we can say what we want to bow trump but i have a priority because i see the dangers i want a president who wants to cooperate with russia not you and i remember that in the twentieth century this was called detente and we had episodes of detente so think

back with me larry the three presidents of the twentieth century who pursued with soviet russia major episodes of detente were all republicans as is trump first eisenhower. in the fifty's with khrushchev then nexen with brezhnev and then most successfully we thought ronald reagan with gorbachev so detente with russia was a kind of republican tradition and i wasn't terribly surprised when trump advocated but then suddenly we're told no no no this is not legitimate this is somehow about trump's shadowy relationship with the kremlin and there we are trump has tried i don't like much else that he does he has tried to pursue a policy of detente with putin why he hasn't been able to why steven should we be

friendly with a country that obviously interfered with our elections that goes into ukraine that is still a danger to nato. i understand for exhibits a good idea to taunt the fights with why why should we be why wasn't hillary right . so you and i are now going to argue and which is good because we need to have these issues explored in a way that they're not being explored in the american mainstream media today so there are two issues that you were raised i have never advocated friendship with russia i advocate friendship with larry king with my friends i advocate partnership with russia that is essential and has been the case for decades because our of our capacity to destroy each other with nuclear weapons and the rest of the

world with it that we have an excess stench will need to partner with russia on national security matters and every american president in our lifetime larry or just start with eisenhower. has understood this the country has asked the president partner with russia so that there's not a war now or a new situation trump is not empowered to partner with putin but i disagree with you it is much more complicated what russia under putin did or didn't do personally and this is these are separate issues for debate what happened in ukraine was not provoked by russia but by the west the record is fairly clear secondly i don't know what it means to say that russia nettled or interfered in our presidential elections obviously they will know what

let's ask what's obvious was it obvious to you you remember this i think that in one thousand nine hundred ninety six the clinton administration literally encamped in moscow to get its partner boris yeltsin who had almost no chance of being reelected to get him reelected and we were so proud of that interference in russia's presidential election that showtime made a movie about it feature film called saving or spending morris and time magazine put it when else and one on the cover with a picture of yankee doodle dandy or something yeltsin carrying an american flag and the cover read yanks to the rescue what i want to say that ever since the russian revolution of one nine hundred seventeen when we intervened in the russian civil war my uncle was sent there by wilson so he told me the story. russia has meddled

in our internal politics and we have meddled in their war was different in two sixteen social media world changed to my way of thinking that's the only difference it was just more of a saying ok neither side should do it but we've been doing it for one hundred years i'll buy the ok now they're gonna is in office they like tomb i've been with putin a few times talked to on the phone seems like a personal god probably been a successful american politician he likes trump helped elect him trump likes him why is it bad what haven't you still haven't told me why they're not getting along why aren't we better off with russia if trump and putin get friends ok so i mean you've got a lot of hard complicated questions that are out says one. well let me just step back a little it is being said today this was not said

a year or two ago but it's now being said that putin and the kremlin actually got trouble acted there is no evidence for that is alan a day that ends a way that you know who nate silver's is this famous pollster so he tweeted yesterday. and you could look it up as casey stengel used to say you could look it up he tweeted yesterday that in his judgment and he supposed to be the number one american pollster that if you listed that the one hundred factors that got trump elected russian social media would not be one of them he doesn't see it played any role at all i'm not a pollster i can't do the statistics but this is nate silver saying this just wasn't a factor of all the real senators should a couple days ago that showed all of the connections that they would do an interference in many ways nate silver could be wrong he could be wrong i could be

wrong you're absolutely right but here is where i am worried we are living today in a world where everybody is churning out conflicting narratives conflicting facts conflicting stories about what is central i am a scholar you're a journalist when i leave you today i have to go see a doctor what i expect of all three of us is that as professionals we base what we do say and recommend on facts and the facts are getting harder and harder to ascertain but they're not all on our side russia does produce facts sometime larry so how do we find out what the facts are today when we have this information war if you want to call it that on both sides and inside our own country you said to me for example trump a putin likes trump yes the russians favored trump wouldn't you given

a choice between hillary and trump where one says she's going to bomb you and the other says he wants to cooperate with you there are rational people but today and i was in moscow to let me think november twenty fifth have to be my birthday and it happened to be the day of the naval conflict between russia and ukraine. i was there for a week i have contacts then up i just put myself in prison contacts with russians are criminal now that's another bad thing that's going on but i have heard repeatedly not from putin himself but from people close to hit them that they have all but given up on trump all but given up for one reason trump cannot deliver stop and think what happened trump went to helsinki in july for a summit something every president since eisenhower has done trump comes home he's accused of treason what does trump do he takes all sorts of russian actions to prove he's not putin's puppet what happened next he canceled to

a meetings with putin that's embarrassing to putin who treats another world leader like that it's not diplomatic so the russians are fed up but they can't be fed up because of the nuclear weapons and that's where we are today. steven cohen is our guest the book is war with russia we'll be right back with more politicking right after this break. aeroflot russian airlines. you know world of big partisan movies a lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that

mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. aeroflot russian and lights.

seem wrong. wrong just don't call. me that yet to see. a proud disdain comes to etiquette and in games from an equal betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. you know twitter's callout of crazy things going up but people you know. twitter izing and occasionally somebody pops up with something really insightful really interesting. we'll get back to politicking i'm told he was stephen cohen the russian scholar the new book is war with russia from kootenai in ukraine to trump and russia gate he's in new york

city all right my stolid friend. if you wish hillary were president. that's. stead of donald trump that's what you're asking me right because if i had my wish neither of them would be president we think of somebody else who had two choices you only had two choices i can answer the question i was very worried about her but more about the people around her. you know my attitude toward trump today yes. for all the ways he offends me that on the one issue that i think is vital to us our kids and our grandkids and i got for the grandkids now is that we can't have any kind of war with russia not this little book war with russia has a question mark at the end of the title and it's written for general readers is not written for my scholarly colleagues and to be fair ninety percent of them do not

agree with me you get another professor of russian studies up here and he'll tell you cohen's all wrong it doesn't understand anything maybe but this is my view based on forty or fifty years of study and i have never been as worried as i am today about war with russia trump is the president we have for now we don't have another president and this talk of impeaching him is a very bad idea if we want to get rid of him voting out into twenty but so long as he's president he is responsible for our national security water which today is threatened most by accidental or intentional war with russia so that's why i wrote the book that's the question i present to you today what is muller investigation proves disaster is for term. meaning give me an exact give me half a what would be to what would be disastrous that he colluding with russia on the election. well over the last service if we found out clearly

if mullah vines are clearly that trungpa and his adversaries colluded with russia over the election. it's. reason. actually it's not it's borderline treason well i mean first of all that's not going to happen we don't know how to investigation well because we because we can look at the indictments that muller has gotten so far we can also look at this case against this russian woman they've locked up in in washington this bhutto woman who they accuse of being some kind of spy we could look at the charges brought against paul mann afford some of which he's pleaded guilty against what it is add up to russia larry i'll tell you what it adds up to it's russia gate without russia russia isn't there hardly at all it ends up to tax fraud and sex so we're now talking about i

didn't pay my taxes gate and sex gate please larry how long have we lived you know any other politicians who have tried to make sexual escapades go away and one instance it has to do with russia and that's when general flynn flynn flynn remember he was trump's national security advisor for about eighteen days i would he do he rang up the russian in basher. and he said don't do anything exciting when we get into office we're going to review our policy toward you know every american president elect since at least nixon has told his national security adviser to have such a back channel talk kissinger did it for nixon michael book fall did it for obama flynn did nothing wrong he did it on the orders of trump who was following the advice of henry kissinger perfectly normal why did flynn lie that the f.b.i.

that's a different question what do you think of who. i now i step back i cease to be a very worried american a citizen and i become a historian of russia which has been my subject for forty or fifty years in history when we get away from all this when you and i have joined the majority as they say and historians write this era they will rank futenma is one of the greatest leaders in russian history and certainly as of two thousand we're approaching two nineteen years in power twenty years probably the preeminent statesman of the twentieth century we're not allowed to say that today because we have to demonizing your dentist oracle context he presided over the salvation of russia after its a collapse in the one nine hundred ninety s. by salvation salvation i mean men were dying in fifty seven years nobody was getting their wages or their pensions factories were closing all that is mostly in

the past he didn't do it alone if he built a team that helped him but to this day you who go to russia and people who do not like putin today nonetheless give banks that he came to power in two thousand they believe he save the nation secondly putin restored russia on the world stage larry let's be realistic the largest territorial country in the world russia with its trip. dishes with his population with his contributions to arts and science is not going to become a secondary player on the world stage putin has returned on the world stage but in a way that i think is entirely negotiable what we need is a president in this country who understands how to negotiate with russia we need a leader and that's where we're at today you know putin have not met him but i follow almost every word he writes and says i'd like to write about him at length i probably i'm not young enough because it's of i've written biography before but it

takes a lot of years but i follow him very very basic beliefs and everything you say he should fly you private tomorrow entertain you for a month you. own is the mirror version and i know but i am not pro putin you're not pro and i've pro-american national security and i'm saying that our national to security requires that we stop demonizing a perfectly authentic russian leader that's all i'm saying stephenie you agree that you are the most controversial american to concerning russia. well known american. i can say to you larry you've been on the air for a million years would you say during those million years you've probably been the most controversial. host show well although out on a lot of times you have unique person yeah but i'm not i don't think i'm

controversial because i haven't i very rarely will say oh there he should have him on that's not the way you operate no what does it mean to be conscious what does it mean to be controversial i don't know what i would say is this. that there are people who think exactly as i do sitting in the united states senate and there are people sitting of my veni jury slightly younger in my profession maybe people more eminent than me there are former ambassadors very eminent people who think more or less exactly as i do they do not speak out with one or two exceptions the only reason i'm controversial is nobody else speaks out stephen n your wildest dreams the you envision a nuclear war. yes alas yes. by accident primarily stop and think and this is the theme of my book war with

russia question mark during the last cold war we had a lot of conflicts military with the soviet rule union soviet russia but they were never on russia's borders larry never on russia's borders today we have a massive nato military buildup on russia's borders near poland and the small baltic nations we have nato trespassing in ukraine which is historically part of slavic russian civilization at least the eastern and southern parts we are flying in this limited and this is why would trump did last week removing the troops are saying he's going to from syria were we're conducting combat operations in syria when the russians in a very limited air space what happens when if a russian kills an american or american kills a russian what will the clamor be can we really trust all these fail safe radar systems when both sides now claim they have undetectable faster more lethal nuclear

missiles we're walking on the edge of a racer but as it's the end we've got to guys you got two guys two guys four now who need to keep us away from danger that's putin and trump hate on him all you want but in this we have to encourage him so would trump does something wise in this regard we need to stop the noun scene and clap and when putin does something wise in this regard we need to do the same we don't have a choice larry we don't have any other leaders at the moment. if there's an accident that's the end there or a law goes once one throws it the other throws its and what that interact so let me worry you a little more but i think you know that but that the people who follow you might not know radars are supposed to tell each side if there's an incoming missile they have made mistakes russia wants mistook a large sea gall for an incoming cruise missile from europe the mistake was caught

but in that time when the signal is given that there's an incoming missile the leader of the other country has fourteen minutes to decide whether or not unleash the full retaliatory or nuclear power of that country against russia or the united states it would destroy both countries probably world civilization with the radiation the destruction to the atmosphere so this is not a debate about you know trade this is not a bait about racial relations this is a debate about life and death and that's why we need to stop shackling trump every time he says i want to cooperate with russia we need to stop we didn't stop until we get another president are you and all you see the book cold war with russia with a question mark are you optimistic or you must be pessimistic why did you set me up

so what a russian would say to you larry is this follow me closely here. a pacifist is someone who thanks thanks cannot get worse. an optimist knows that they can get worst so i guess at the moment i'm an optimist things are gonna get worse stevens book is war with russia from hooten and ukraine to trump and russia gate it's out now in available everywhere including the download thank you so much always great to have. steven have a high i.q. larry you too and thank you for joining me on this edition of politic you will mumma you can join the conversation on my facebook page or tweet me at kings things and don't forget to use the politicking hash tag and that's all for this edition of politicking.

teraflop russian airlines. you know world a big part of the lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

teraflops russian headlights. that country called russia. no one has ever had a country never even heard about most.

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