more of them to sophie okonedo fi shevardnadze forty years on the groundbreaking music of pink floyd still sounds fresh in the lyrics of roger waters as relevant as ever how hard is the balancing act between music and politics well i'm hearing say peter's birth to ask the legend himself water waters musician author activist co-founder of pink floyd and my guest today is really great to have you with us today welcome to our show thank you everyone's really happy that you're here looking for your tour and i'm looking for a little chat so i'm going to start from the eternal question because you've been pushing the boundaries of music forever. at the same time the lyrics that you write are always very powerful so the question is what is more powerful the words or the music. will do it the

way the. equal importance i mean the trick with with. songs i'm not quite sure what it comes from but it has to do with who way the feelings that are in the lyric of the song so the ideas that are in the lyrics of some somehow get kicked into a more accessible place by having to relate to the major of of the music other know it's a kind of magical for it it's a feel a bit. kind of pulling moving so for birds fly even to talk about it because this sort of mysterious you know broaching song is sort of a mystery. how it happens or what happens with the connections made between the hardness soul in the brain on the intellect and the nature of. if one is into the actually increased two for the world one of simmons sonus of it's just

a way of. being in the life you get this question a lot in. different forms but i never really quite grasped an answer for instance if you go to a pub mccartney concert was a great musician and a friend of yours from what i gather you forget about syria and sanctions for one night anyhow that little space of three hours thing about love or heartbreak or no family friendship you would never be ok with giving your audience or people just that what is it about. does music always have to be fused with a certain message or else it makes less sense and not as important or there's no there's no house to doesn't have to and i think my father was dead so i never really knew him much open my mother gave me a great gift when i was a child and that was she said that the only thing that was fundamentally

important to her was to care for other human beings to empathize with others so for instance. she was a schoolteacher she had my brother not been up on a round and she would she was very political so if she would go to a political meeting often in the evening she druggists along with her we'd sit there and the british china friendship association or something this is specific and we would work grainy movies about the heroic struggle of the child you know of him out of the now and the long march of the chinese people's fights against the japanese in the puppet government block. after the meetings in cambridge where i bought up would be in the friends meeting house which is the that the home of the quakers a religious. i'm never forget my mum said to me one day when we were leaving she

said you know where we are and i said. i didn't read it it's a school the friends meeting it's the quakers there it's a christian set and she said as you know i'm an atheist so i cannot subscribe to their religious beliefs but they are very very good people and i thought wow how cool is that. stu i can hear saying it so i guess you're very much like your mother from what you describe right now i have her hands well with me and you're very outspoken and you always say what you think and you're very adamant to get your message through and you've been political throughout all your life from day one of your career but people now are saying you know maybe the waters should just stick to music they never really say it before and i wonder why it has become so pervasive now as your message changes the become more acute why

are they all of a sudden realizing that roger waters along with a great music is as the sleepwalking because there is sleep because they are the victim of neo liberalism so you know that ronald reagan and margaret. brought to the world that has spread to basically certainly through western culture western politics and films and a part of part of the way that it works is is to and this the ties people and almost make it uncomfortable for people to hear anything real you know this is this is so it's difficult for some people i do get people i mean in america you would get people walking out of the show there's not many maybe four or five out of twenty thousand you know but nevertheless forced. stuff wasn't just

shut up and play the music you know and i sometimes speak to them because i speak to the audience most places that a player now and some terms of i'm a bit play for how ready are they to hear the most of them are like they're just a trip and breed for instance rate and then you're speaking to them letting you know you're trying to get them out of their comfort zone unfortunately we don't educate ourselves or our children well enough. and the reason we don't do that is a well in america i live in the united states of america united's america they spend nothing on public education and the reason is in my view i'm always ready to be wrong about everything they want to keep. the electorate ignorant. mindless and unthinking and malleable boobs and very open to the use of consumerism and propaganda to keep them under control to

maintain you know the william notion of the sheep or whatever board up or whatever i'm going to get to the western mainstream as they really want to hear your views on that but a little bit about you before we get to the bigger things. one iraq war was taking place is that you are songs from the wall where as relevant as ever and now you are into or. the tour is called. them that song from the dark side and obviously you feel like it's relevant day but you know. what hasn't really changed in that forty years i mean no i phone one thirty five thousand will ever change the fact from what we see that people are killing each other for religion or oil or gas or money or they're still continuing to doing today as if they're doing like two thousand years ago just like discourage you do arlo's your work gives you driving because you've been out there for forty years and all your songs were element than are

relevant now but things are really change well that's true but we have to remember that forty years is. is sort of the run of the end in terms of the history of homo sapiens and who also in terms of food in terms of the way things develop and the potential that we have to change systems. you know first of all you really have to go back to say well i'm glad that i was born out of to the enlightenment if you like i'm god i'm i'm glad the french revolution happened a couple hundred years ago so that we can have. the question that what the loam is in about pocket if we want it i agree with. it's a good thing this is something i can cling. but and then that that that puts a stone somewhere different than the people who would suggest that i should be political

commotion what are you talking about what should shouldn't be it's none of your business and you cannot come where you can come but you can influence me with an opinion about something it's not your music it's my music it's not your job it's my job it's my life this is what i do and it's one of always done if you thought you were a fan of pink floyd and you didn't noticed that's what i did when i was running pink floyd your live in them but i don't want to hear life is too short for me to listen to it i'm not interested in their opinions i'm interested in the opinions of people who fought for or cared or something or have something about the. that. there are certain people even meet you talk to and it's like reading a great book let's talk about you and what you believe in or you're very outspoken

about the years you know you're an avid supporter of the waco divestment sanctions movement you urge colleagues to follow suit as example and then rate there is no question that when you say things you believe in them and you take full responsibility for it but hell fair is it to actually you know shame some of your colleagues into not going to israel or you know pressured them to think like you they don't because you are your own person in europe willing to existing that. miles on a surface to say nothing. i can't say no when the civil society in palestine has reached out to the rest of global civil society which it did in two thousand and four and. and specifically the peer to peer is sci fi but the cultural or could think they reached there specifically reached out to this and cultural figures and i think democrats in the rest of the world said we're

dying we're dying here. we're dying please help us please do not go. to israel and perform if they offer you an academic at a later award please refuse it with this is the only way we can think of now off to the to and from how does the outbreak israel's government change their mind well pretty. look what they're doing now they're trying now to make b.d.s. illegal in the united states and in fronts and in germany and to some extent because the. b.d.s. is shawn the light on what they are actually doing but they don't seem to be learning anything from it of moment but they are swain public opinion

all over the world by killing those hundred fifty kids and in the great march the return home the protests near the fence that surround the prison. people who are up poor by. it because is almost impossible not to be if you see it. you know you have to sit b.d.'s helps people see it i hope people see it up also most much of it as i can always because it's so important to me still there's another side to this story and that's just regular israelis some of them still come to our show they have them know like voted for netanyahu they're not for silence how fair is the to punish that people tell me that unfortunately still so huge majority of of israeli jews believe that the policies in relation to go sir and in relation to the settlements

and lation to do with implements now really a fight that unsuitable for them. this is a big big. majority. of israelis maybe no not not israeli arabs who are but there are only twenty percent of the population so that eighty percent of the eighty percent there is a resistance and i know many of them. and friends. but it's not a huge numbers. when take a short break right now where we're back continue talking to roger waters a legendary musician activist co-founder of stay with us.

welcome to the crystal ball edition of crosstalk what can we expect in the new year we have a great lineup of guests telling us they think. it's hard to imagine decades after the war a nazi doctor was still active rich in the nineteen seventies cretonne had as the chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery at auschwitz a german company develops a little mite drug that was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy. it turned out to have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby is anything but all you know she said is just cut short arms minix a little mind victims i have to this day received no compensation they never

apologized for the suffering that i did not only want the money i want the revenge . seemed wrong but i. just don't. get to shape out of this thing as a kid and in detroit because the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

now we're back with roger waters watcher you are strong opinions about other things i know that the white helmets at some point they asked you for your help and you know because you're aware it organization and we know what helmets what how much approached me twice once was for a fundraiser in london who were asked by the syria come. ok and i looked in and i thought of something who are these people and so i did a fair bit of research what is it that you see in our organization that the western mainstream doesn't well have them at a what what what is it yeah look. for and stick is there always little runts idolised in the west first and well ok. of tell you just just couple of things we could be here all day to about how much because that is

a very deep trouble. first of all there is no evidence to support the idea that it's across roots organization in rebel held trees in syria the group of people who just want to go and help civilians get them there was no no evidence to support them so that's one thing when i made my speech i gave a little speech in barcelona because the other thing is a french guy who supports the white helmets he goes around the world climbing to buildings where in a way a helmet and he said i want to come on stage and give a message to the children of syria we haven't forgotten here can i come and i went no you can't come on stage and say i mean i'm sure he's sincere and whatever but i explained why this happened my cake was when i put the fourteenth this year. in this year in barcelona on april the

seventh it is alleged there was a chemical attack in duma in syria and a video appeared. with people who goes in don't children kids who get in a mosque so my face is or know of made by the white helmets and the white helmets sent this video and it went viral up about on the only evidence of that video. for the governments of the united states of america the u.k. and the republican fronts all his ideas going form syria. and i'm just on the basis of that. i stood up on stage and said i think i have this is i think it would be huge error to go bomb f. eels in syria until we know what happened the united states knew u.k.

and france didn't send a hundred cruise missiles to syria i don't think they did much damage thank goodness that didn't kill people but they did do that and they did and then the people left and the next day two journalists went in both of this group of independent it's a perfectly reputable english newspaper broadsheet west tabloid actually. and and also a strange journalist he was i'm working for a conservative christian t.v. station from texas and his name was pison shop and they both extensively went all over to him but they both went to the hospital where the video had been. show up and everybody told them the same story. absolutely nobody knew anything about any chemical attack the doctor said there was no chemical attack we had

a few people in you've got dust in their throats there was not a single deathly do that nobody nobody was killed certainly nobody was affected by chemical supply any kind and so this is two independent journalists in and sending out these reports that were unequivocal and i believe i believe them to be true funnily enough the official you know chemical weapons inspectors went in for five weeks later with all this stuff and their report came out and they said they couldn't find a single trace of any of age they found chlorinated that's just something come on the how this phrase which prompted by the so could be anything you know of it so they did not say they think this will report is now out nobody read it it wasn't news you couldn't see it on c.n.n. because it's not the narrative that they follow then narrative is that there was

a chemical attack in the white omits a wonderful i just have to say this one more thing that's as i said this in oslo and i will say whenever this from south if that is a grassroots footy cool the way home as a volunteer is separate for the people who actually start it in istanbul it was it didn't start service started by an english it soldier. in istanbul but if that body exists. and they and they go and help people of. you know it as to the russians or somebody else to stop observe them then i support the whole heartedly with every fiber of my being but. wooden's points to the fact that that is not the reality i don't know if you did you did you see the the documentary that won the oscar yes i have. only

have you ever seen anything so obviously scripted and carefully shot and put to good documentary that come out of the water and that's another thing i want top hear about you're saying carefully scripted you used it is not their narrative that's why the report from the inspectors is not making the mainstream media in the united states when you say like you know i'm critical of u.s. airstrikes or syria or is a. you know i believe after looking into it that they white house are shady are going ization from what i've gather or like screwball case is sorry strange then they say right away that you were put in sympathizer that you were aligned with the russian authorities of course if you're if you were and who you are the under just say you're about out right nut think about it won't get be attacked for being an

obsolete as it wasn't someone i don't even know if you like but why didn't someone that doesn't express an opinion that's in line with the state department is like scarlet letter like branded it like a russian spy or like a kremlin sympathizer emilie's like you can't think for yourself well but will mean clearly clearly the warmongers doing it because they want to promote the idea of having war with the rum first to maybe russia second there's a lot of money in war and i know that this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist of but it's no why are they spending six hundred billion dollars a year going into foreign countries that none of them business and killing brown people in bristol why what's it for. you know if you stop asking those why why i do this is it because you're scared because they're going to attack you because they hate your freedom i mean the narrative is nonsensical in every

possible way the us narrative here and now probably through me now french leave the country oh i do i'm no idea did you feel that danger and i feel that people are trying to silence me i mean obviously on the b.d.s. issue trying to silence me they threaten me as well where would you go. well i'm back i want written a what you mean if if if i didn't live in the united states. i didn't know about the u.k. i don't think when you can imagine what you go why not russia. russia not even tree. of now i've no idea you can ask another thing have you noticed the general line in the lean they also that the american officials. allow themselves to have when they come when it comes to speaking about the russians i

mean i've just heard this american politicians say russians are genetically driven to co-opt and penetrate that's a quote and i was thinking oh my god like if any of the americans especially officials were caught saying that about jews or the african-americans that would be like the end of their career why is it ok and why is it allowed to speak about russians like that to go because because the mainstream media in the united states of america have been selling this narrative to the general public for the last autumn of four years i think it was but how long do you think it goes but i would say about folding it started it started during obama period it became really bad during the presidential campaign and it's gotten even worse ever since trump is in office but what's true i mean i've heard when i was making this

this record or just my this is the life we really want. the guy was producing the wreck of producing this record with me started telling me about. how r.t. was. just pure propaganda nothing but a pack of lies so when i watch ati so i thought it does you can see a documentary about fracking on american television because they were and then interested in it in time and telling you anything about anything you know it's so so obvious now that c.n.n. and all the american all of them they're all the same m.s.m. b.c. or to fox and everything in between maybe not discover and maybe that's the one little piece of t.v. in the united states where you can occasionally get a glimpse of three on a city before it's like to be human pressed if it is just. just

propagandists food and that i still don't know why it is the whole russia thing i've said this to audiences as well i said to the something in you know of the countries women in america said have you any idea who the russians. and the the russian as i said because i've met many russians and i do not sing on nov many russians very well but i do know this the russian people. gave up twenty million lives in the second world war to save you from the nazis and you want to go around with the stick and poke at them are you insane you have no idea what you're talking about. and also you know nothing about the common true of the people it's just finger point to well once you work for office i haven't put things to do. that well ok along those important things thanks

a lot for talking to us and stay tuned. here watching us i will good luck with everything thank you so. out there time for some major predicts the following twelve months guaranteed to be one hundred percent accurate.

observations to do something to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president and. want to be. that much you want to be close with what the four three in the morning can't be good. interested all those at the water's edge. there should be more.

at least three people are dead and seventy nine unaccounted for after an apartment block collapses following a gas explosion in the russian city of. britain and france to step up joint patrols in english to a spike in the number of illegal immigrants trying to get to the u.k. over the past three weeks. those are russian children held in an iraqi prison with allegedly eisel links parent song. when they returned to russia. the french newspaper apologizes off the people compare its latest cover to images from the nazi era.