time after time so you know what you're going underground while we're away for christmas we're screening some of your favorite episodes of the season coming up in this what kind of riot tax can to raise a makes makes a today's nine hundred twenty two committee the decide premiership of the united kingdom we speak to northern ireland's former first minister and republican column line on which post breaks it good it's better. brussels dublin listen more coming up in today's show but first what is troubling the u.k. prime minister more today a backbench meeting on brics it that could decide a future all this saudi arabia's crown prince mohammed bin summoned help the first of two meetings with british prime minister theresa may the red carpet has been rolled out early at the prince had lunch with britain's queen elizabeth at

buckingham palace and during his three day visit the aide to the family friend what meets with all the senior royals and dine with the queen's son and grandson that's the way even chinese t.v. covered razor maze arguable genuflection to someone she know appears to be labeling a murder a mind you this is the kind of questioning u.k. state mandated media presented its questions to journalist jamal khashoggi when he was alive apologies for the quality robin solomon seems to be saying. i know we have to transform ourselves we have to modernize we have to change and i will be that agent of change your code of an autocrat your compare them to protean and others but surely the message of the last few years is that the best hope there are nations like saudi arabia as a leader who is prepared for us has power for genuine reform and change not by choice while you bob i by fuck like you fuck to. use. the best choice for saudi how

do you go on a minute so the b.b.c. a year ago was devil's advocate ing for the now ne a pariah crown prince and so was jamal khashoggi in fact the late journalist was that once in russia advocating more russian input in the middle east as he was tweeting for the defacto islam is rebels in syria of course there is another dimension to the whole story saudi could stop bombing yemen with british form stop buying nato weapons and make friends with iran let alone this man. the leader of the world's biggest oil producer russia they're meeting the world's second biggest saudi and of course saudi has also made friends with this man yes she jinping sent his people to the saudi investment conference just as vladimir putin did but if saudi realignment is a piece of cake well to some that is something else entirely threatening not only say italian membership of the e.u. but the very existence of the united kingdom joining me now is former first minister with all the knowledge in current ulster unionist party chairman lord m.p.

but i would be welcome to going underground if we leave aside the party politics of the ninety two to two committee how is the union this movement called it's of involved with the body is bricks and negotiations and i know this is the deal being or do you agree. negotiations that are arguably threatening to break up the union where my party recommended remain vote reluctantly but on the basis that there were two major issues one was the border because we didn't even when we went to see former prime minister cameron before the campaign. we didn't get the impression that number ten firmly understood the implications for the porter the second thing was you go to your volvo not explaining it to him well we did our best i assure you and the second thing was you've got to remember we were two years

closer to the scottish referendum so at that particular stage the decision of scotland to remain in the union would have appeared to have been final but within a matter of weeks the nationalists were starting up again and we felt there was a great risk of reigniting not independence movement which just goes to some extent has happened so and those two reasons we recommended remain but on a free vote however not only the decision was taken we our position is that we have to respect thumbs and we try and and get the best possible deal that we can for the united kingdom as a whole do you think that there will be a border in the irish sea there will be a border between the irish republic and great britain between eighty and ninety percent of our exports either go to or via great britain britain is alarmed bridge so arlen can't send its goods directly from its own

shores to mainland europe there on the reason the ferry capacity so it goes across their r.e.c. primarily to ports in wales and then it goes either to the u.k. as a who or it goes to the cotton to dover or other southern ports we don't want it to be extended up they are the sea to our shores because the boss spoke of our trade is done with. great britain and not is is the case the total exports to the whole of the world. from they are sure public all of those exports one point six percent go to northern ireland. of the irish republic total imports from the whole of the world one point six percent come from northern hutton's so thought is people don't get that they level of trade never you've been reporting on earth there is no real border there the movement is well if you say you've got

you've got a currency border you've got a v. a t. border you've got all the talks so the tax authorities in each side reporter of those or irish government figures by the way what i'm giving it but there are goods in transit that go up and down the road but the actual level of trade is modest and is primarily are good culture and we've had all this talk about a hard border let me tell you there isn't going to be a hard porter who is going to put it up and the problem that they are sure public house is that they're. fear is that brussels in the event of a no deal arrangement would say well you've got to put up an external border that's what the speculation is no government could stay in politically putting up a border they could they wouldn't last five minutes so there isn't going to be a border so if there is a new deal because dublin doesn't accept what you're saying regardless of the border between the six counties in the south do you find it ironic that

a union is posey seems to be threatening the existence of the u.k. and shin fame remain in fame. when there's a navy union there's an irony in this insofar as shin fein originally opposed arlen joining the european economic community decided in fact in the one nine hundred seventy s. they were opposed to those that the d.p. have taken a position on this we have been very concerned about the approach that they are taking it so my feeling is in our party's feeling is that the way bracks it's been handled by the d.p.p. they were part of the negotiations last december for this block stop which is not a millstone around our necks i believe that the relationship with the republic should be negotiated in the final phase when we know what our future relationship is going to be that's when it should have been dumped we should never have accepted

it david davis should never have accepted it as one of the preconditions for negotiations up was the rock on which we perished you know what find it strange that you appear i mean we had paul mask before we. had will see saying that the b. are in it for itself that seems to set off a leg we're going to thing you in what used to be the dominant force and you know it well it's like i suppose yes but that probably isn't the strawman context which i think you're. coming on to the moment well i think they said they have nigel dogs as a bit of trying to be che guevara and. there's a role in this one as if he was their kids in a sweet show he was talking. he was going your mind to guerrilla campaign in parliament. well hard to you as a unionist to stay in the union if you're a guerrilla campaign against your own government a government which he has a confidence to supply arrangement with you know and well in the sense that if

there is a may did put him in mind in the irish sea they have here but checked to talk to if you are in arrangement with stops government which in my view opinion there was no need for the deal between the metol but surely to raise them a needed the d p otherwise the queen was going to give a permission to be but i mean is the queen would give her permission because she is the largest party in parliament she was automatically going to be given the first opportunity to form a government so then the question is who is going to vote her right. you going to vote her right and perjury corben then because that's the most obvious you know the old suspicions that he was always breaks it is a yeah but he's also i mean his job is shadow chancellor announced last week to the world that he long for united ireland i'm sure they would say this is what a diary civil rights. did then surely you can understand that that is as it came up the idea of a border in the irish sea infostrada the other alternative they're just going to

bring down in the deal that is presented in then we'll still vocal for them well first of all well they can do that but you know in practice with the for expression parliament socked they say the dynamics are different from what that they used to be years ago but look if you're in a situation and you have a conference of why they have a joint committee that meets regularly why weren't they engaged in the drafting of the document last summer it was obvious that it came as a complete shock to them and a surprise to them and then they scrambled to run to see if they could get a bit odd that in which they did but it is totally contradictory because on the one hand it's saying all the mild will be regularly regulatory aligned. and with brussels on the other hand saying they'll be no impediment to trade east west and where live free and equal access to the united kingdom market the only way you can see the whole of the united kingdom can stay aligned with brussels is defectively

stand the customs union which is the very opposite of breaks it doesn't or the labor but he say anyway we'll get the d b's. view on why they weren't privy to that information i'm sure you know people are going to speculate that's because the reason we didn't tell them certainly this kind of thing boris johnson was always thinking in stormont i mean people often oversleep talking about the good friday agreement you know so what is the bedrock of the good friday agreement do you think you'll ever meet again it's possible and i think that the will be nothing in the short term i'm quite sure until after breakfast or at least until it breaks that situation clarifies itself to some extent because i don't think she wants to be implementing brags that it would have to if it was in government stormed in the event that we leave on the twenty ninth of march so the other thing was there was a failed. negotiation in february of this year. the republican movement

said that there was a no wonder standing that arlene foster would put to her party a number of proposals that they had discussed including an artist's language act when it came to the point of her doing so it became obvious that her colleagues weren't prepared to even agree to it so she didn't formally put any proposals to them unfair or nice saying well who do we negotiate with so as a full first minister you're encouraged then that both sides neither of them are saying they're of the good friday agreement even those stormont says no we wouldn't you know what i mean there's no it is kind of you've got the meeting again we had twenty years ago when the agreement was done we had a there was a referendum in northern ireland on the referendum they are for public must of majorities ninety something in the republic over seventy percent and all the supporters of the d.p. of course oh posed it. ironically initially. they

still say they oppose it but ironically they operate it and it is the only thing going for them the principle of consent that we negotiated got no longer stay part of the united kingdom and that's the people of no nonsense otherwise and they use that continuously as their major defense when they're dealing with banks that will just finally then. figure it's only about referendums we know the good friday agreement and it's specification what do you think is dr paul nolan from queens saying. this conversation has been about a date next year the real date is twenty one when the catholics number the protests of the north you're but. the two things. twenty twenty one but that doesn't mean that. it's a question of what is the balance you can't apply to root just strictly on the

america because don't forget we've a lot of catholics who come from poland i mean the last census one percent of the population is probably bigger than you've. that's going to make the difference or could make a huge difference i mean if you do two percent majority for one and a half or two percent can make a big difference they're going to be able to remain in this country. i've no doubt the republican house to vote they have to accept that they would want you nice round i wouldn't like to take out. at the present moment thank you thank you. to the break we hear a different view on the border from. the

beginning. i think. it may be completely different in the us. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race in. spearing dramatic development the only really i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk.

welcome back well in the first off we heard from northern ireland's former first minister but is brics it larger than ireland tourism a in the future of the e.u. joining me now is called who actually lives on the border between the six counties and the republic called thanks for coming on going underground so when you watch mainstream media beaming down to your place in the morning and. you think the journalists and the pundits and the politicians that learn to raise them is going wrong i. don't believe that in the mean commentary has any real concern for ireland. that ireland. remains. the perspectives of journalism and commentary are largely driven by the major forces that are still controlling us and settle subjugated so i would argue the people of ireland we have

ceded most of our far more powers to europe and that's evidenced in our inability to stop. europe foisted on us a huge debt in the very recent past that which we are still burdened with. in order to see if the markets the economies of europe and we don't know what the problem is exit personally i would be far legs that are left exit that would. get rid of the power of europe but and retain sovereignty within the nation state but that would be in the interests of the vast majority of people i suspect that breaks it in british context is being manipulated by a powerful elite that will that hopes to. tax haven a bust and a race to the bottom we're not sure nobody knows and this will be all to be fought

for but in marriage context none of this we are caught in a dilemma where we're controlled in the north by british imperialism under the sun us by the imperial force of europe our interests are never hurt never mentioned in that our only recourse to power is to beg some kind of been if and it's been if since from either of these powers. and the irony is that in one nine hundred twenty s. irish republicans broke with the british union because they saw their interests being in. represent themselves represent their economy in a democracy that a plate and responded to the needs of the people and in the north the unionists demanded not to be included not because they saw their need for some executive power and then they saw that in a link with britain but very much that they would control of their destiny and

a large say in that we come to two thousand and the a team and neither side sees any. any need for their own sovereignty and they look to. almost bipolar the perspective of if we defer to this power or that part not seen that the both of them are actually there is to dis disenfranchise disempower and to impoverish or broken the deal is. over there holds the future of driesum or . yes because they come from their rationale sectarian rushnell they're caught and trapped in the history that doesn't a lot of them are just not that they're making very good political sense that they say in order to maintain the integrity of the united kingdom and in the fierce of burgeoning catholic potential majority in the norse that their only

state in the only thing that will maintain that union is that they are bracket all of the good friday stuff that the potential for unity and this is actually offering a chance for a union that was almost defunct and republican. made us do it they voted to leave the european union before bringing to remind us how his it came not to be leaving the european union to voting to leave the euro but and ireland to maintain. their scant regard for to marcos and we have no vote in ireland it can be that the population can be asked to vote again at any time. there would be pretty debate going on here in britain of yes of course. i think the irish rolled over in fear because our our economy is tied if you have to realize there's khana me our population is part of society's manchester we're peripheral in every way to the

interests of both britain and europe and always have been our problem is we have been the first colony and probably the last colony but we have no concept. the to control our economy separately from from these two two powers. so i think there is bad leadership in ireland there it's almost got to a stage where the european union is no the new holy catholic empire and any any chris is almost blasphemy. well. if that's the case then why do you think here it's all about the law in the irish sea i think the line in the air or sea in britain there are parts of force i don't believe that britain ever lost its strategic interests in ireland a lot of the good friday stuff in the peace process that we enjoy in ireland. was

premised on the base on the mission from britain that had no strategic or selfish interests in ireland i think as this to be it unravels it becomes quite apart and that the british have a strategic interest in ireland that they are quite willing to share the good friday agreement the integrity of the union asarco st and you have these jingoistic forces working but so i guess it could be argued that the economic interests of the elite in england could work fairly well within the city of london but it needs a territorial business to exist on and i think the attorney tauriel integrity of the united kingdom of the kali empire becomes much more important in this context and we may be seeing a position where all of what. been agreed in terms of peace process has not been torn up not they republicans are dissidents but the middle classes.

on both sides of the of that to be it in their own selfish interests but for brigadiers watching the twenty eight crisis was. the war of liberalism was britain voted to leave but in your country they voted to leave and then after being bailed out. all the banks fail there will be worse for the we weren't built in fact we were don't what was done what we were forced at like serfs with and with a huge debt now we live as indentured labor theory ireland unions are a pyramid there is the world's eyes we don't have our budget goes to germany for for assessment and check and correction before we don't we have a housing crisis where huge homeless crisis. to rent a property in dublin in the capital it cost twice as much as a mortgage we have no ability to build houses because the european union

would say that with goes beyond the budget we see italy during two to flout the laws of fiscal policy europe interscope policy and you can see the reaction to it in ireland we qatar we have a completely compliant government that doesn't see itself as being sovereign. any criticism it's almost servile. so this is why and huge propaganda here. molly. carrot and stick both the threats of what will happen if we dare to. not told the line of europe but i would say watch this space we were given huge assurances journey the last couple of crisis that europe would look after us in effect they dumped

us in order to save those markets watch this space where. we're told that europe will defend the interests of little ireland. i suspect strongly and has been mooted last week through social democratic lines that cam the leader of the irish labor party said that he had heard rumblings that europe was preparing to ditch the irish position the backstop and all of that watch this space where the little irish economy becomes so insignificant if it's stopping a deal between britain and europe both of whom need each other because there are so many synergies in their economy that ireland's issues will be. avoided happens then the border where you live i think the reality is. i predicted non profit that i predict that there is going to be a really hard crash here because there is no logical way out of this because the

interests are mutually. incompatible we will have a crash. there will be. a border that will be maintained by the british on one side and possibly the europeans on the other side we will have a border that never existed before because even in the twenty's we had bilateral and see lots of different arrangements. now in our context the irish state has no ability to make bilateral agreements with britain so we will possibly fear a tragedy that is worse than we can ever conceive of in ireland for people it's mostly denial and they're being fed this will never happen this couldn't happen it's too polly. unconscionable and we couldn't but the truth is that. they are on the red good for accusing british me of year of comparing the border

area to pakistani tribal areas in the hindu kush but if there was that kind of poor . then. the rise of militancy the rise of militancy and this is it i will watch with it's actually quite funny i think a moment that the last twenty odd years i've been spent on. producing a process that would lead republicans to disavow any claims to sovereignty to independence to bring the whole population to a position where they were think that irish n.t. was a nonsense and here the people who are very opposed to republican militarism and militant islam are now the people threatening the other side it with the possibilities of it so i think the most dangerous people in ireland the most militant people in ireland are they possibly the irish middle class who see their

business interests threatened and her almost we saw varadkar last week. showing pictures of a bombed. of course i'm supposed. it's almost comic that these people who couldn't understand any of this are not almost use it as a potential threat but the truth is that the threat is not there they've been so successful in using fear and using fear and. killing home rule with kindness to use an old part on that that there is very little radical republicanism left there they're almost going to have to create it and i watch the space where they will bring about issues and incidents and use it as a pretext to threaten each other well that's over the farewell contributors are your favorite episodes and you were back for a brand new season on wednesday january bill then you can fetch us by social media you see.

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