those are more coming up in today's going underground but first if you believe the british media the world's reputed fifth largest economy faces a political meltdown tomorrow finally dres of may is set to allow parliament to have a say on a brics a deal which he fought tooth and nail to keep the legal details of secret but the party that allowed her to even be prime minister after she paid a defacto bung of a billion pounds does not support the legally binding arrangement which ties us to the anti says to the end definitely and ties us to the e.u. until the e.u. decided to let us go as not acceptable could to raise a maize deal be altered at the eleventh hour no said britain's finance minister u.k. chancellor of the exchequer philip hammond accuses those who believe in a last minute change of being delusional the idea that there is an option of renegotiating the eleventh hour is simply a delusion and u.k. mainstream media is arguably timidly turning against stories making to promote tory backbenchers like this one seen insulting germy corbin's labor party there is no

serious opposition there is nobody challenging the government in the way actually it ought to be a challenge because good opposition leads to good government there is to borrow does read his phrase a range of exhausted volcanoes i think some of them were never even volcanoes it's more like a range of low hills but is that true or is it a progressive progress of perspective alexis perspective is not being given their time in britain his mentor to so many of labor's front bench is tony benn who's pro breaks of views first informed jeremy corbyn and which are agreed on not only by the seventeen million voted for breakfast at the referendum not only by jacob riis morg but a majority of labor's working class space i want to cooperate and join international organizations but no international organization which we have members of the nato get can't make laws in britain that we cannot train and every colony since the war has been to london we've had these. great colonial leaders was

to their rule was to look cruel all of them have been to london to ask for the right for self-government and independence and i want no more right for the british people than we gave the indians then we gave the americans took for the last two hundred years ago joining me now is all for begin to professor of geography of the university of oxford who together with sally tomlinson has just written rule britannia and the end of empire thanks so much dana for coming back on so what's the book about giving as a kind of remain vision arguably and we have that vote tomorrow which without gina miller who's been on this show maybe we wouldn't have had she'd probably like this book wouldn't she it's all pretty programming. you could see it as problematic. you know. academics it is more the citadels of my but what we try and in the book is step back and back and back from this. and we do try to try to cover the other side mainly the pro tory argument for taxes but we're fundamentally trying to answer the

question of why has this happened why it was put in the first country off the greenland to try to leave the you when you want to slow the take back control it's how important is that back bit there was a time not very long ago where this country had more control of more people than any other country has ever had in the history of human can't you know we did have control and i think part of the reason that that slogan. is there's a sense that when we were in control things were going well and getting better so in a sense if we leave let's it the left wing case for it so this book basically explains why the right to one would expect to support near liberalism the city of london and so on why on earth they should be opposing what the next g. is a is a new liberal institution well some of them i mean some of the vital very. forty

opinion because they understand the city of london that depends on being in the opinion of those on the right c.e.o. larger financial picture i mean we smoke father about a book saying that the world will be a kind of part of that while the future and you really do want to be a treasure island of sight for meat but when you look at the leading packs of his so many of them grew up in former colony so when he grew up in families which who had servants was. i want to be careful over scribing their particular views to their childhood or. remember them a value which we have to be very careful wife in this book because you know they get the gist but we do list in the book a series of names of ones who grew up somewhere else in affluence and their families have gone and this includes the families of leading remain as they become and family were at the top of the world a few generations ago and it was david doing that with time to be shit you know you

get a feeling of being diminished in britain if you were in the top one percent. your grandfather your great grandfather was a siding whether he wanted to buy in india or do something else big in london and you were trying to get a job in a stockbroker well i want to get on to some of that commonwealth colony stuff and enter second. ironic though that to morris virgin is just center on england's oldest colony. in the book you claim almost no with of understanding of england's first colony in eleven sixty nine was evident to twenty seventeen would you say irony that the more it'll be the irish border it's incredible i mean nobody realized that that border was cycling really you can't at the time of the debate load it decision was ireland hardly matters there were a few country roads crossing a border that's not and then. oh we can have it logical solutions remember all of

that when thank god it's gone quiet but out there we're going to use some kind of supercomputer i mean you don't have to border and drones presumably there's a realignment in the first colony of a glint country which the english treated in some ways almost more despicably than anywhere else in the world. to our engineers of course will be. contested but almost one of the few places the world has a lower population now than it had a hundred and sixty hundred seventy years ago which is quite incredible that kind of a sort of justice to this island. i think that it's the key sticking point is an island if britain does leif becomes the only english speaking country in significant country in the union is the place you want to set up your business if the people you want to hire from england want their children to speak english but going back to the emperor theatres in the book so it's natural that immigration and

falsified narratives of immigration would play a starring role in the whole brics a debate that we only dream of movement well over other countries in europe when the question becomes so i ask is what's different about this country we did it significantly first we have had higher rates of immigration for a much longer period the much of the mainland and woman also that is very multicultural society love that is the real big apple of the world but we've also had a legacy since at least nineteen zero walk we have cutting to much a one of incredible basis propaganda against each immigrant group as i said to be fascism and that same. propaganda was rolled out for i want to quickly extremely white very pale white eastern europeans why was the favor of immigration up and up and up in this country the fear being strongest in the air is at least immigrants it was partly stoked up because it's. it was

a natural trope of the british if one for longer than other people but also because these papers in the propagandists don't want to talk about inequality they will tell you that you've got the palm of your schools and your houses and hospitals and your wages because of the immigrants not because the rich are taking a bigger bigger slice of the pond that poses a question as to why german corbin is labor but he is also keen to say freedom of movement is a very important issue here around the people is the vote for labor why is labor saying labor doesn't have a particularly clean record on immigration it's never been as nasty as the tories so we haven't. realised that why did they have this problem you know power went out almost banking people to come here and work to keep the buses that are going the health service running. and we have this problem particularly the england empire much bigger than the others because. we are government of a people without their consent on the assumption that we were naturally racially

superior to them and it was in their interests as well as well as ours that we should be in charge of them from the lexer point of view one could say this is uniqueness that you keep pointing to in the book could open a vision of a post bricks at britain that is equally as unique and that limits the power of the city of london and allows the renationalisation perhaps without compensation of housing of water of electricity of energy and the railways that and you don't address that so much because i can see how theoretically you could if everybody agreed and we all work together to create this socialist utopia in a matter of say fifteen years working very hard. but we actually government did quite a lot in the body at the government did it after two generations of men had been forced to fight side by side in

a war that could have been avoided and not get she the kind of attitude you need to get people to really you know we have a mixed up population in the same way that they make when they're fighting a war we've actually divided our population into segregated schools more segregated anywhere else in europe much of the rest of europe where people have decent regulation on their rents. places where homelessness affording the places is already half of it and getting better ok the ones i wear the left are those different countries feels it is under attack it has as its own sellers but as a as a professor at one of our elite institutions you do say in the book that history teaching is another key that major the next generation want to go to decisions like this because basically excoriate history teaching in the schools history clarity in english history teaching and this is a lesson we all felt it is whether to flee easy teachers like you and me because if you are in germany the history you teach in germany is

a very realistic history about what happened in europe because of losing a war. we didn't lose the war we haven't lost a war for a very long time we haven't had to correct the story we've told ourselves iraq. but then we when we do when we lose a war we pretend that we weren't really involved was at war with the americans you know we don't admit to our failings we tell ourselves of pete it lines about ourselves i'm going to also ask that i mean your chair is walford mackinder reborn you know that much about what the tools that we're being given on television are mainstream television to understand why britain is voting. was in a sense the better dig cumberbatch stored in a film about bricks is what you make of this narrative a lot of people are talking about which is this is facebook maybe the russians maybe digital marketing it's nothing to do what does the social geography offer us is a way of understanding the real reasons for this oh you can you can look the thing

we know more about the than anything else it's a joke of it we are absolutely sure how many people voted labor made in each area and old people who don't go on facebook so the whole media marketing thing a bit but it wasn't as crucial as it's being made out to be we have a lot in about dominic cummings in the book because he is fascinating and if you're trying to figure credited with swinging it oh but also part of a group of young conservatives who were dedicated to this kind of thing happening and that's been forgotten and then you look at his version of the history of england was he when he look at his great big thesis about the greatness of this place and so on and you can see that he thinks we've lost something he thinks we need to take back control to get back to. that we should be and he need to understand that to understand why this happened to us because we were a place where people like dominic cummings could win those countries like france

and germany and spain and italy and not places where people like dominic cummings come. when consensus can wait but not people who try to take you back you know one hundred two and i did they have. no history books in that particular schools that they went about the greatness they think should come back and with us and all and thank you thank you but after the break we told class war and ziggy stardust that spider from oz what he wouldn't see in the month david bowie would have turned seventy two. to have going on the ground. he was secretary of state my pompei all tells us america is a force for good in the middle east well that's pretty amazing and online censoring continues apace also for the democrats the party of war no.

officer. to get up off the ground begin to. hurt themselves on the sounds of. a grown man mislead essentially. through his. wish to do away from the officers. of his group. they obviously did a kind of lunge for the web in one smith's and then when it happened on trace one and i didn't i never saw any contact with. any kind went back to where they were so the answer is back here they're trying again fifteen feet apart at this point and that's when the officer is gonna need to turn three. seems wrong. but old rules just don't hold. any old belief yet to shake out just because get educated and engagement equals betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. welcome back in part one we have from professor danny dorling on the effect the breaks it may have on britain's future prosperity but it wasn't meant to be like this claim lex it's supporting brigadiers shooting for the stars exiting the neoliberal e.u. project was supposed to be multicultural and invigorating for britain's working classes in the heartlands of the north of england my next guest is a musician from the north without whom there may never have been a ziggy stardust on the week of the third anniversary of david bowie's death we caught up with woody woodmansee the last surviving spider from zero as to discuss how working plus music culture helped create four of the most iconic albums of all time would be welcome to going underground never been to viewed

a spider before have to say tell me about the two of us. in february and during lots of different players and. all around the world actually it's gotten we've done two tours of america. three tours in the u.k. and we stepped into europe last year tony visconti the legendary producer is with us and a glen group and yourself were actually part of it all and you've added len greggory famous for having seventeen we satirize the hatches economic policies in the eighty's when did when did this started by accident it was in the plan and i got off to do an interview for the instant your contemporary art on the mahler and i thought that's a bit you know from a but they took me into i did it put a band together with a name musicians like from blong day. one of spandau ballet steve norman and. bob geldof's guitarist and they were it did they did

a festival with under the banner of the institute and they said well why don't you come and do two numbers so i went and did a couple of songs at the festival and i was amazed because i'd played the song for like a couple of decades you know the audience response was response was. manson and a lot were teenagers and then we had to go off and toe with long day so they said will you get the drummer in your own band and i went yeah as long as of the after all dish and you know these are the some of the most classic albums of all time certainly by david bowie the first hunky dorey and a lot and that and singing and august but you and the other spite is will from yorkshire bowie famously from south london yeah you had to come down south had to go up north to find talent you know yeah that's how i got out of it saying it doesn't i love the music executives probably see it well i'm going to ask about whether things have changed but why is it you had to come to london well it does as

i mean like the beatles left liverpool the consideration was you couldn't really make it from whole or manchester or whatever so you had to make the old you nose and just kind of leap to walt you know which was a big go payable in those days what was the culture joke i mean i was born in. an agricultural. town called driffield which was outside or so you can you know go into hole was a bit of a culture shock really well no. no no yeah. but it had a good music scene of it sounded hold there was a lot of kind of underground things happen and. and then. as i replaced one drummer and abandon holy went down to london to make it and was doing demos for david he was trying to make that move from acoustic. guitars really to being a rock n roll and we make them myself and being in that was our roots from blues to

that zeppelin jimi hendrix old rock stuff so it kind of fitted it was i didn't like folk music i would still go on a photo but. actually sold a i got out no actually i don't know. i mean when i first met david i was in jeans with the ritz coles and patches in a smelly t. shirt that was my stage we probably had them for ten days you know that was that was made rock'n'roll and he met me at the door in a rainbow t. shirt. bangle red coat arroyo traverses he had red shoes on and he obviously painted his own stuff on the top of his shows. and it was that was a bit of a culture shock seeing now but i had this list you know i didn't know much about it but from the data it was kind of a one hit wonder thing or that was the idea right because of that i was baseline

and yeah yeah but would he have a do if he told you to dress like. all the spiders at address they did but he didn't you know if you did don't hold the date yet if they did then all those changes in one saturday afternoon would have all been back on the tray and you know like you did yeah he did a few sketches were watching a movie any prospect them said what do you think and i didn't join the dots about that point and i went yeah nice you know but like the beatles were space boots on type thing and then two days later i were in liberty's in london in the material department with him and i'm g. and he's passing me rose material going what do you think this would be and i'm like well get new curtains or grab the flower looked a lot but i hadn't joined adult i mean eight it was an educational trip really want to design the same page to be able to throw ideas and so after reus those he said

oh we're going to see a play and i said i'll grab it with that cold he said i've no idea. why we're going to say that he said because the light and diet is the best one in london at the moment i want to study the lion and see how it changes the audience reactions because i won't i'm going to be asking you what color we should use during so i'm going to push out to go because at the time britain was going through i mean nowadays it's yeah to say because it's going to recession then obviously the recession now is the living standard living wages are growing out of the yes the napoleonic wars the decline not quite as bad as that of the seventy's yet it was that was on a level dark period you know i mean part of the thing was to brighten up but right now the business you know give the rock'n'roll business a kick up the backside through a bit of control to say out just to stay. because that's what it was always been to some degree but it got a bit bleak you know the whole cola thing and you know

a big bombed at the time they would have like a red light yellow light in a green one and if they had a bit of money it did have a strobe light him and for the on call ad in was go and you know where it was we you know he took us into fifty proper theatrical lighting so it it made it look larger than life more effects and it was always done to push the song that was always the intention does it get the song across to the outfits get the attention and then you're able to put the music across yes it's all those things would you know there's no talk these days that only people from elite the one percent can get into music or food to be in music why do you think bowie i mean he himself wasn't was i guess what would you call him middle class what did he what did it work with three guys who spend their teenage years in hell rather than some way i guess he was a visionary and he sold that sound on. i couldn't believe the talent is there i maybe it worked it didn't tear albums and they hadn't gone anywhere problem space old

it's a note to now sit with it we tried a few session musicians in a different line ups and i think we because our roots were in blues and top ten stuff because she did cobras in those days but our bass was like the stones the bay owes that blend it was hendrix it was all in the blues if you could play the blues and understand it and feel it then when somebody brought a song but wasn't blue you could at least find the emotion and you could find what the guy was trying to say and i'm going to take the record as it is it took two weeks from record and and mix and it was finished i think we only recorded for about four days we never did a song most of them three times in the studio was now days they do like they can do ninety and then cut the old coat and paste stick it together and get all the best bits. so we had to get it something like style my jeans you need they were first

that was the first time i'd ever heard it and played it you know so you learn to play you learn on the edge and that's what you wanted well you know when we first recorded live we would go up to the control room and say let's have a listen to what we've just done on that song and i would go oh i thought it did i wasn't too sure about. let's go do it and he would go no about say it and i go what do you mean you know that's the first time we played it either correct or it's the first time we played it and you go that's why i won't let me put my twelve string on it and he do that you go well that's nice and he got i'll do a vocal and then go down and do a book full under thing would just take on a life of it so it was like bigger than the sum of its products and nearly every track we did and i realized he wanted that you know when you're really creating anything you get the idea you get the inspiration you radiate you doing it but like

if you're doing it fifteen times by the fifteenth were you thinking about what you did on the third one you were you already you attribute bomb to yourself but you want to use you know he wanted the freshness they want to you on the edge anyone today what do you feel like play and now you know and we did everything i could ask you about so many different songs you will have a story about each one but the life of his name checks explicitly a political figure arguably linnet and has become such a big song in this year and you want to do it as danny boyle wanted in the twenty twelve olympics but he said no he wouldn't turn up woman would you make of that song when you suddenly tells you well i first heard it when i was butcher introduced in the hall the other yet to be honest moment of total yeah exactly in rhythm yeah he had a piano in one room guitar in the oh that and he was doing a lot of fun miles but playing key problem it was a. like a brilliant period missed and then we had mickey mouse has grown apart and it's

like ok that's weird you know i when we finished we got rick management and obviously to play a piano and he just took the piano part to another level and the whole string section lifted and we were trying to get a rock fraying with the classical thing so that it really integrates. scott mixed you pulled as into eric i remember going. you know it was so. different to what was around then and and when you talk about going down and shout there's as or things that changed much in hull and in the north of england when it comes to a divided clubs divided by music i know you've been. celebrating whole culture it was the city of culture it's it's. it's probably so it's so for the because of the fission thing that was the man with the yeah you know. a lot

of it basically and it's just trying to stick it said down the some good things now you know there's some good companies have moved and and the thing is picking up the i opened a festival for them about what five months ago and there were two hundred seventy bands in the whole which is i was like oh my god you know would you have been say thank you thank you very much spider for maz what he would see there and you can get tickets now for his february tour as part of holy holy accompanied by the producer of heroes unload tony visconti and heaven seventeen frontman glen gregory that's of the show will be back on wednesday russophobia imposed threat to trade with russia's former deputy prime minister arkady dvorkovich until that keep in touch by social media will be back on wednesday is the day that burnt to death but how does he formally the youngest of a female m.p. was shot fourteen times in front of a children by british army over the trees. when

they came back from a. marijuana. cocaine methamphetamine anything that's altering trying to get us out. that bad. use of the chemical that would be self medicating. i want to be drinking and drinking enough just killing myself but. drink alcoholic drink to feel normal. that's why it's this way drug addicts. shot while surfing the net. star cool. i don't reduce guys or break through to it it just means to. these need to be helped and i get pushed on by the v.a.'s are as

drugs go and stuff they need to be helped. and they just really shouldn't be looked at like numbers they should be looked at like people if they go to a veteran center for health issues be considered as someone who really needs attention. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the us has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to be all for rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent from last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin roast at forty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only number you need to remember is one one business show

you can afford to miss the one and only. you. the us media piles the pressure on donald trump with claims he suppressed details of his told thought he made case in publishing a complete guide to impingement. the us.