time after time here we're going underground twenty four hours before m.p.'s vote andres amazed deal and the u.k. prime minister once again councils at the day before coming out of the show is tomorrow's vote rooted in the ashes of empire arguably britain's greatest living geography professor danny dorling on his new book the bridge and the pound three years to the month of the death of david bowie who refused of nitrogen what role did class play in ziggy stardust in the spiders from mars we interviewed the only surviving spider would he would lindsay dollars more coming up in today's going underground but first if you believe the british media the world's repeated fifth largest economy faces a political meltdown tomorrow finally to raise it may is set to allow parliament to have a say on a brics a deal which he fought tooth and nail to keep the legal details of secret but the party that allowed her to even be prime minister after she paid a defacto bung of a billion pounds does not support the legally binding arrangement which ties us to

the antichrist in the end definitely and ties us to the e.u. until you decide to let us go is not acceptable could to raise a maze deal be altered at the eleventh hour no said britain's finance minister you can chancellor of the exchequer philip hammond accuses those who believe in a last minute change of being delusional the idea that there is an option of renegotiating at the eleventh hour is simply a delusion and u.k. mainstream media is arguably timidly turning against stories making to promote tory backbenchers like this one seen insulting germy corbin's labor party there is no serious opposition there is nobody challenging the government in the way actually it ought to be a challenge because go to opposition leads to good government there is to borrow does read his phrase a range of exhausted volcanoes i think some of them were never even volcanoes it's more like a range of low hills but is that true or is it a progressive progress of perspective alecks it perspective is not being given that i'm in britain he is. just so many of labour's front benches tony benn whose

progress of views first informed jeremy corbyn and which are agreed on not only by the seventeen million or verge of a breakfast at the referendum not only by jacob riis morg but a majority of labour's working class space i want to cooperate and join international organizations but no international organization which we have members of the nato get can make laws in britain that we cannot change and every colony since the war has been to london we've had these great colonial readers was to their rule was to look cruel all of them have been to london to ask for the right for self-government and independence and i want no more right for the british people than we gave the indians then we gave the americans took for the last two hundred years ago joining me now is whole for begin to professor of geography of the university of oxford who together with sally tomlinson has just written rule britannia and the end of empire thanks so much dana

for coming back on so what's the book about giving as a kind of remain vision arguably and we have that vote tomorrow which without gina miller who's been on this show maybe we wouldn't have had she probably like this book wouldn't she it's all pretty programming. you could see it as problematic. you know. academics it is more the citadels of my but what we try and in the book is step back and back and back from this. and we do try to try to cover the other side mainly the pro tory argument for taxes but we're fundamentally trying to answer the question of why this happened why it was put in the first country off the greenland to try to leave the you when you want to slow the code take back control it's how important is that back bit there was a time not very long ago where this country had more control of more people. than

any other country has ever had in the history of human can't you know we really did have control and i think part of the reason that that slogan. is there's a sense that when we were in control things were going well and getting better so in a sense if we leave let's it the left wing case for it so this book basically explains why the right to one would expect to support new liberalism the city of london and so on why on earth they should be opposing what the next g. is a is a new liberal institution well some of them i mean some of the vita very forty opinion it because they are on the start of the city of london that depends on being in the opinion of those on the right c o large financial picture i mean results favelle to book saying that the world will be a kind of power that while the future and you really do want to be a treasure island of sight for mate but when you look at the leading place of his so many of them grew up in former colonies so when he grew up in families which you had service was. out there i want to be careful over scribing their particular

views to their childhood or. remember them of value which we have to be very careful wife in this book because you know they get the gist but we do list in the book a series of names of ones who grew up somewhere else in affluence and their families have gone and this includes the families of leading remain as they become and family were at the top of the world a few generations ago and it was david doing that with the time to be shed you know you get a feeling of being diminished in britain if you were in that top one percent. your grandfather your great grandfather was a siding whether he wanted to run india or do something else big in london and you know trying to get a job in a stockbroker well i want to get on to some of that commonwealth colony stuff and enter second. iran. that to morrow seems just center on england's oldest colony.

in the book you claim almost no with of understanding of england's first colony in eleven sixty nine was evident to twenty seventeen would you say irony that the more it'll be the irish border it's incredible i mean nobody realized that that border was cycling really you can't at the time of the debate load it decision was ireland hardly matters there were a few country roads crossing a border that's not and then we can have technological solutions remember without going thank god it's gone quiet but out there we're going to use some kind of supercomputer i mean you don't have top of our border and drones presumably there's a realignment in the first colony of a glint country which the english treated in some ways almost more despicably than anywhere else in the world. to our indian viewers of course will be mostly content they will contest it but almost one of the few places the world has

a lower population now than it had a hundred and sixty hundred seventy years ago which is quite incredible that you know this is kind of a sort of justice to this island. i think that it's the key sticking point is an island if britain does leif becomes the only english speaking country in significant country in the union is the place you want to set up your business if the people you want to hire from england want their children to speak english but going back to the emperor theatres in the book so it's natural that immigration and falsified narratives of immigration would play a starring role in the whole brics a debate that we only dream of movement well over other countries in europe well the question becomes so i ask is what's different about this country we did it significantly first we have had higher rates of immigration for a much longer period the much of the mainland and woman thought that is how the motor coach will see. that is the real big apple of the world but we've also had

a legacy since at least ninety know what we have cutting into what they want of incredible vases propaganda against each immigrant group associated with fascism and that same. propaganda was rolled out for i want to quickly extremely white very pale white eastern europeans why was the favor of immigration stoked up and up and up in this country the fear being strongest in the middle east immigrants it was partly stoked up because this was a natural trope of the british if one for longer than other people but also because these papers in the propagandists don't want to talk about inequality they will tell you that you've got the palm of your schools and your houses and hospitals and your wages because of the immigrants not because the rich are taking a bigger bigger slice of the pie that poses a question as to why german corbin is labor but is also keen to say freedom of movement is a very important issue here around the people is the vote for labor why is labor

saying labor doesn't have a particularly clean record on immigration it's never been as nasty as the tories so we haven't. realised that why did the british have this problem you know. almost banking people to come here and work to keep the buses running in the health service running. we have this problem particularly to england the empire is bigger than the others because. we are government of a people without their consent on the assumption that we were naturally racially superior to them and it was in their interests as well as well as ours that we should be in charge of them from the lexer point of view one could say that his uniqueness that you keep pointing to in the book could open a vision of a post breaks at britain that is equally as unique and that limits the power of the city of london and allows the renationalisation perhaps without compensation of

housing of water of electricity of energy and the railways you could. you don't address that so much because i can see how theoretically you could if everybody agreed and we all work together to create this socialist utopia in a matter of say fifteen years working very hard but we actually government did quite a lot in the body at the government did it after two generations of men had been forced to fight side by side in a war that could have been avoided and not get she the kind of attitude you need to get people to really you know we have a mixed up population in the same way that they make when they're fighting a war we've actually divided our population into segregated schools more segregated anywhere else in europe much of the rest of europe where people have decent regulation on their vents. places where homelessness affording places. and getting better ok the ones i would have

a left or those different countries feels it is under attack it is as well as but as a as a professor at one of our elite institutions you do say in the book that history teaching is another key let me just next generation want to go to decisions like this because you basically excoriate history teaching in the schools history clarity of english history teaching and this isn't the. so we are folks it is whether to flee easy teachers like you and me because if you are in germany the history you teach in germany is a very realistic history about what happened in europe because of losing a war. we didn't lose the war we haven't lost a war for a very long time we haven't had to correct the story we've told ourselves iraq. but then we when we do when we lose a war we pretend that we weren't really involved was at war with the americans you know we don't admit to our failings we tell ourselves of pete it lines about

ourselves i'm going to also ask that i mean your chair is walford mackinder they don't know that much about it what the tools that we're being given on television are mainstream television to understand why britain is voting. was in a sense the better dig cumberbatch. stored in a film about bricks is what you make of this narrative a lot of people are talking about which is this is facebook maybe the russians maybe digital marketing it's nothing to do what is the social geography or for us as a way of understanding the real reasons for this oh you can you can look the thing we know more about the than anything else is a joke of it we are absolutely sure how many people voted labor made in each area and old people who don't go on facebook so the whole media marketing thing a bit but it wasn't as crucial as it's being made out to be we have a lot in about dominic cummings in the book because he is fascinating and if you're trying to strangle the figure credited with swinging it oh but also part of

a group of young conservatives who were dedicated to this kind of thing happening and that's been forgotten and then you look at his version of the history of england was he when he look at his great big thesis about the greatness of this place and so on and you can see that he thinks we've lost something he thinks we need to take back control to get back to. that we should be and he need to understand that to understand why this happened to us because we were a place where people like dominic cummings could win those countries like france and germany and spain and italy are not places where people like dominic cummings come. when consensus can wait but not people who try to take you back you know one hundred two an idea that they have in their head they've read the ny history books in their particular schools that they went about to greatness they think should come back and. thank you thank you very much after the break we told the class war in ziggy stardust that spider from oz what he would see in the month david bowie

would have turned seventy two all the civil coming to him going underground. u.s. secretary of state mike pompei all tells us america is a force for good in the middle east well that's pretty amazing and online censoring continues apace also by the democrats the party of war now. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter to us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten thousand dollars fine tamping each dish. eighty five percent of global wealth you want to be ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent from august last year some with four hundred to five hundred

three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar. mark but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one does not show you know forward to minute one and only. as a spy you have to really split your own personality into to you then is that committed to harvest that was still alive within me and then there is the person who wanted to counter everything they want to do and then try to dismantle everything they were doing so you have to really become a good doctor and know that a tool. you have to follow your own family in order to hold the. welcome back and one we have from professor that

a dollar on the fact breaks it may have on britain's future prosperity but it wasn't meant to be like this claim looks at supporting bricks it is shooting for the stars exiting the neoliberal eagle project was supposed to be multicultural and invigorating for britain's working classes in the huck lands of the north of england my next guest is a music. from the north without whom there may never have been a ziggy stardust on the week of the third anniversary of david bowie's death we caught up with woody wouldn't see the last surviving spider from zero as to discuss what king plus music culture helped create four of the most iconic albums of all time would he welcome to going underground never in viewed a spider before have to say tell me about the two of us. in february and during lots of different places there's an. all around the world it's really it's got it we've done two tours of america japan and three tours in the u.k. and we stepped into europe last year tony visconti the legendary producer is with

us and a glen group and yourself were actually part of it all and you've added len greggory famous for having seventeen we satirize the hatch is economic policies in the eighty's when did when did this by accident it was in the plan and i go off to do an interview for the instant contemporary art on the mile and i thought that's a bit you know from a but they took me into i did it put a band together with a name musicians like from belong they. want to spawn diaboli steve norman and. bob geldof's guitarist and they were it did they did a festival with under the banner of the institute and they said well why don't you come and do two numbers so i went and did a couple of songs at the festival and i was amazed because i had played the song for like a couple of decades you know the audience response was response was that manson and a lot were teenagers and then we had to go off and toe with long day so they said

will you have the drummer in your own band and i went yeah as long as of the after auditions these are the some of the most classic albums of all time certainly by david bowie the first hunky dorey and a lot and that and singing and august but you and the other spite is will from yorkshire a famous. difference of london yeah you had to come down south had to go up north to find talent you know yeah that's how i got out of it saying it doesn't i love the music executives probably see it well i'm going to give out with the things i changed but why is it you had to come to london well it does as i mean like the beatles left liverpool the consideration was you couldn't really make it from whole or manchester or whatever so you had to make the old you knows and just kind of leap to waltz you know which was a big go payable in those days what was the culture shock i mean i was born in a. an agricultural town called driffield which was outside or so you've

been you know going to whole was a bit of a culture shock believe me although i haven't yeah. but i did good music scene at the time did hold there was a lot of kind of underground things happen and. and then. as i replaced one drummer in a band in holy went down to london to make it and was doing demos for david he was trying to make not move from acoustic guitar guitarist really to being a rock n roll and we make him myself and being in that was our roots from blues to that jimi hendrix old rock stuff so it kind of fitted it was i didn't like folk music i would still go on a photo but. actually sold a i. know obviously i don't know. i mean when i first met david i was in jeans with

the ritz coles and patches in a smelly t. shirt that was my stage we probably had them for ten days you know that was that was made rock'n'roll and he met me at the door in a rainbow t. shirt. bangle red coat arroyo traverses he had red shoes on and he obviously painted his own stuff on the top of his shows. and it was that was a bit of a culture shock see him now but i had this list you know i didn't know much about him apart from you dad oh it was kind of a one hit wonder thing or that was the idea right because of the time of his baseline and yeah yeah but would he have a do if he told you to dress like. all the spiders at the dress they did but he didn't you know if you did the date yet if they did all those changes in one saturday afternoon would have all been back on the train and you know like you did

yeah he did a few sketches were watching a movie any prospect them said what do you think and i didn't join the dots about the point now where you had nice you know but like the beatles were space boots on type thing and then two days later we were in liberties in london in the material department with him and angie and he's possibly rose material going what do you think this would be and i'm like well get new curtains or grab the flower looked a lot but i hadn't joined adult i mean eight it was an educational trip really want to design the same page to be able to throw ideas and so after reus those you said oh we're going to see a play and i said i'll grab it with that cold he said i've no idea. why we're going to say that he said because the lights and diet is the best one in london at the moment i want to study the lion and see how it changes the audience reaction is because i won't i'm going to be asking you what color we should use during so i'm going to put show to go because at the time britain was going through i mean

nowadays it's yeah to say because it was going through a recession then obviously the recession now is livingstone living wages are going out of the yes the napoleonic wars the decline not quite as bad as that but the seventy's yeah it was that was all colorful dark period yeah i mean part of the thing was to brighten up a bright note in the business you know give the rock'n'roll business a kick up the backside through a bit of control to say out just to stay. because that's what it was always been to some degree but it got a bit bleak you know the whole cola thing and you know a big bomb and at the time they would have like a red light a yellow light and a green one and if they had a bit of money it did have a strobe light him and for the on call ad in was go and you know where it was we you know he took his in to fit proper theatrical lighting so it it made it look larger than life more effects and it was always done to push the song that was

always the intention does it get the song across to the outfits get the attention and then you rebel to put the music across yes so all those things were you know there's a lot of talk these days that only people from elite the one percent can get into music or food to be in music why do you think bowie i mean he himself wasn't was i guess what would you call him middle class what did he what did it work with three guys he's been a teenage years in hell rather than some way i guess he was a visionary and he saw that sound. couldn't believe the talent is then i maybe it worked it didn't tear albums and they hadn't gone anywhere problem space old it's a note to now sit with it we tried a few session musicians in a different line ups and i think we because our roots were in blues and top ten stuff because she did cobras in those days but our bass was like the stones the bay owes that playing it was hendrix it was all in the blues if you could play the

blues and understand it and feel it then when somebody brought a song but wasn't blue you could at least find the emotion and you could find what the guy was trying to say and i'm going to take the record as it is it took two weeks from record and and mix and it was finished i think we only recorded for about four days we never did a song more than three times in the studio was now days they do like they can do ninety and then couldn't paste stick it together and get all the best bits. so we had to get it something like stamina jean genet they were first that was the first time i'd ever heard it and played it you know so you learn to play it you learn on the edge and that's what you wanted won't you know when we first recorded live we would go up to the control room and say let's have a listen to what we've just done on that song and i would go oh i thought it did i wasn't too sure about. let's go do it and he would go no about say it and i go what

do you mean you know that's the first time we played it the correct or it's the first time we played it and you go that's why won't let me put my twelve string on it and he do that you go well that's nice and he got i'll do a vocal and then go down and do a book will under thing would just take on a life of it so it was like bigger than the sum of its products and nearly every track we did and i realised he wanted that you know when you're really creating anything you get the idea you get the inspiration you radiate you doing it but like if you're doing it fifteen times by the fifteenth were you thinking about what you did on the third one you were you were already you attribute bomb to yourself but you want to you know he wanted the freshness they want to you on the edge anyone today what do you feel like play and now you know and we did everything i could ask you about so many different songs you will have

a story about each one but life is his name checks explicitly a political figure arguably cleanin and has become such a big song in this year and you want to do it as danny boyle wanted in the twenty twelve olympics but he said no he wouldn't turn up woman would you make of that so many but suddenly he tells you well after a study while i was butcher introduced. to all the other you have to be honest romas you have to go to the exactly in rhythm you know if you had a piano in one room or in the oh that and he was doing a lot of fun miles but playing key problem it was a. like a brilliant period missed and then we had mickey mouse has grown apart and it's like ok what's weird you know i when we finished we've got rick management in obviously to play piano and he just took the piano part to another level and the whole string section lifted and we were trying to get a rock flying with the classical thing so that it really integrates. mixed

you pull designed to hear it and i remember growing. up you know it was so. different to what was around then and and when you talk about going down and shout there's as or things that changed much in hull and in the north of england when it comes to a divide a cluster vibe of music i know you've been celebrating whole culture it was the city of culture. it's. it's probably. because of the fission thing that was the man. you know. basically just trying to stick it said down the some good things now you know there's some good companies have moved in there and they think he's picking up the i opened a festival for them about what five months ago and there were two hundred seventy

bands in the whole which is i was like my dog you know when you were up and say thank you thank you very much spider from there you can get tickets now for his february tour is part of holy holy accompanied by the producer of heroes an low tony visconti and seventeen frontman glen gregory that's in the show will be back on wednesday. to trade with russia's former deputy prime minister arkady dvorkovich keep in touch by social media will be back on wednesday is today that he formally the youngest of a female m.p. with fourteen times in front of a children by british army of the. financial times. first to visit the difference.

we have our three banks all set up something in your something in america something over the cayman islands all these banks are complicit in there we just have to say . ok let's see how we did while we got a nice watch for max and for beautiful jewelry. from that money laundering is highly. watched as of course. when i came back from iraq now whoa marijuana her was cocaine methamphetamine so anything that's altering trying to get us out. that bad mindset using the chemical that would be self medicated. i want to be drinking and drinking ino new nope just killing myself. out the whole links don't

drink to get drunk alcoholics drink to feel normal. that's why it's this way drug addicts do what they do i shop while surfing and they're right here star cool under which these guys are going through to it it just means to. reduce need to be hoped and good pushed on by the v.a.'s are as drugs go and stuff they need to be built. and they've really shouldn't be looked at like numbers they should be looked at like people if they go to a veteran center for health issues be considered as someone who really needs attention and. u.s. media coverage of alleged from russia collusion provides the eye of the american president that after one act let even published a complete guide to his impeachment or say to come to us.