an attorney in deal on these young people give them grant them citizenship. i believe the democrats would give in on this wall and we would have to get the government back to work but he said that you know he's claiming the high ground by saying that he promised us well sure in the election campaign and he got elected so he got to do what he promised but then i saw this in our poll and that actually shows that most americans blame him for this crisis and he's ratings are around forty percent which is pretty low you know do you think do you think he can really appeal to popular sentiment right now well i think the only people that really like him anymore or his narrow base so the so there's a small so i think a relatively small segment of the electorate that really loves him and they will probably go out and vote for him next time around. but whether that's

enough people to to win the election i doubt it i mean we've just had a congressional election and he he really wants lots of seats for his party so i think he's somewhat delusional on this and many other issues so far the situation as yourself resulted in the longest ever government shutdown in the united states right i mean this is not it's not even saving us money because we are telling these workers that whenever they come back to work we will give them the their back pay that's a bill that was just passed by congress on both sides of the aisle they voted for that so it's you know basically what we're saying is. we're going to give you the same money just don't work and that's ridiculous right and also these people can't get by day to day until they get their checks so. you know it's not the way a grown up government should work so i have two questions are they at first of all

is this government shutdown like a huge deal because something seen other government shutdowns in america and somehow country still functions and it's fine is it like a huge deal or i would make and he's still at it and i think it's a pretty huge stand because it's going to four weeks and we have you know we have certain people. who are actually being required to work like the transportation safety. workers and not getting paid so it's some point they're going to say forget it and we won't be able to no one will be able to fly in the country because no one will be secure for security cleared for security so this is becoming a big deal and trump is just. dead set on not giving in knots being shown to have yielded so he's kind of a bully who doesn't. you think sees all powerful as well as

a real estate tycoon and that's how he runs the country right so far it has cost three billion dollars to the american economy so i feel like various inch is going to be easier to build this well the not to build it is this what he wants they to just sort of bring him down to a total absurdity well he's doing a lot of i think. damage and lots of areas not just. shutting down the government and that has its costs but we're talking you know if you look at our trade relations with with. even canada mexico. europe china these are not good you know yes we he did say that he struck a new deal with napster you know with the china and i started with canada and mexico to replace nafta but i think it's basically a minor change you basically did not win that fight and he just let left bad feelings on both sides so he withdrew from the trans-pacific partnership

agreement which is a big deal so now i think we're going to see through time is that the u.s. will be increasingly isolated and you'll have china making trade deals with japan and south america with with europe canada so the u.s. will just become a minor you know we can take on the entire global economy in terms of fighting so hard so many experts say that. you know whatever is going on right now in the u.s. the country will be locked in a partisan bickering for two years to come at least you feel like this is just a taste and you know it's going to be getting i think everything that's wrong has done and all his associates. will be. brought back up by the democrats in the house in hearings so you'll have. because the republicans were running the judiciary committee and now the democrats are and also

the oversight committee so the democrats are going to subpoena people and put them under oath and get them to say things that trump probably doesn't want to have said so obviously this is all seen by traumas trump as bulwark against illegal immigration is a focal point of this. motion earlier however i remember i heard you say that illegal immigration should also occur right well i think we have to we have a population should for the u.s. wish projection which has us adding about one hundred million more people to the country increasing the population by about a third by the end of the century that's according to the u.n. projections so we have to discuss as a country for getting illegal immigration do we want legal you know what level do we want legal immigration to be sure to be the current level should be half should

be three times more twenty times more because we could have twenty times more immigrants tomorrow and the big concern i have has to do with whatever we decide we need to prepare for bringing people in if we decide to have the kind of one hundred million more people and it's going to be the increase is really being driven by immigration because we have for chile level in our country that is just at zero population growth so people. women are having. a number of children the number of children of the they are having is only that required to replicate the population so the real increase in the population is due to immigration and you know if you think about where the immigrants are going to go the going to go to the big cities the big cities are already or are already turly congested in los angeles the traffic is horrendous if you go. boston where i live the traffic is much worse now

than it was five years ago. so we have to have to think about where we're going to . where people are going to be living but if we're going to cities you know that way but it's not the first like siller stand how a country with such a potent immigration mean at its core it can like stop letting people in for sponsoring a lot of concern in big cities i miss not a problem of immigrants is a problem on the whole planet i mean there are experts who are saying that ruler as rural areas are going to disappear and saw them in big cities and some because of immigrants or nonimmigrants it's just that people just go where money is so in general we've had people moving from agriculture which is where you know machines are replacing workers for a long time now into the cities to work in factories and services so we have to just consider. how or how we're going to deal with the immigration that we have projected. projected under current laws and do we think

if we don't have a game plan for dealing with maybe we should have fewer immigrants if we want to try and improve the skill distribution of the population maybe we should just we should increase the number of immigrants but bring in more skilled people so we should discuss this right we shouldn't just let it happen without some kind of adult discussion and preparation do we need to build some new cities in the middle of the country. you know china has tried to do that they've tried to build new cities sometimes successful sometimes it's not but the elites do some planning and also there's infrastructure and education so i think we're going to be overwhelmed by immigrants if we don't plan for that's my concern but so back to trump who has canceled his trip to dallas to share because of the government shutdown he doesn't scream right. last year when he

was there like paste the whole america first approach wasn't very popular at the house either and actually he keeps clashing with his foreign allies so it's america first thing like fresh fish with in my day my clothes which if you know anything about it all the time so do you feel like it trumps america's increasingly isolated on the international really thing and i really think trump is. mentally ill i have to tell you that i think he's mentally ill i think most people in the country who i think a lot of people in the country who have thought about it. either. you know he's not making america first with his policies he's making america last that's. that's the path he's on when it comes to trade when it comes to. human rights when it comes to bringing the country together on issues of. you know racism he's just dividing the country he's the key trying to isolate the country he's talked about withdrawing

the us from nato. he just pulled us out of syria without two minutes of thought about you know what what the consequences of that it is for the kurds so i just see somebody who either doesn't know what he's doing or is intentionally trying to damage the country why would he want to do that intentionally damage his country and its economy i have no idea why he would want to damage our country but i see him doing it and so either either he's mentally ill and doing it because of that or he's got some other motive but i don't know what it is some of this is the most common answer i get from american experts about trump i have no idea why he's doing what he's doing. all different experts who all different failed say this right about and no idea why he's done that you know because anybody who has any historical knowledge would know that the us has a role to play and it's not building a wall around yourself and saying we was alone we're going to take

a break right now while we're back we'll continue talking about u.s. china relations with laurence kotlikoff professor of economics and washing university stay with us. when i came back from iraq oh mary was on her was cocaine methamphetamine so anything that's altering trying to get us out. that bad mindset using the chemical that would be self medicating. i want to be

drinking and drinking ino new just killing myself. out the whole links drink to get drunk alcoholics drink to feel normal. that's why it's this way drug addicts do what they shop while still for the next. star cool under which these guys are breakthrough to it it just means to. need to be helped and not get pushed on by the v.a.'s are as drugs go and stuff they need to be helped. and they do really shouldn't be looked at like numbers they should be looked at like people if they go to a veteran center for health issues be considered as someone who really needs attention and. in a world of big part of the lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever

we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bad and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. and we're back with laurence kotlikoff professor of economics in boston university and write in candidate and twenty six and u.s. presidential election professor so let's talk about the impact that trump's

decisions can have when global economy because obviously with white house's new approach for trate trade deals it will lead to a permanent and substantial shift in global economic balance because right now economic companies china same way be more liberal in free trade than liberal america you know i think. in many ways china's a much more capital stick society than we are the in the long run picture. is one of of china and india. dominating the world economy the developed world economy as they catch up through time and there's also also going to be lots and lots of people in the middle east and in africa sub-saharan africa if you look at the projections are just amazing we're going to be adding two and a half china's in terms of total world population in the through the end of the century we have about seventeen twenty percent of world g.d.p.

right now we're heading to about five percent of world g.d.p. . so we cannot dominate the world we're going to be a small player three time us more and more player china will be much bigger india will be much bigger in terms of their share of the world's economy so. we can call all the shots and to you know to start picking fights right now with we're going to be in an increasingly small kind of vulnerable position is not a clever idea but we're going to get back to this idea of by the end of this century sub-saharan africa and china and india being delivering economies that's very interesting to talk about you know before that still want to talk about china in america because when obama was and the white house relations between us and china where you know because the supposed transfer of u.s. intellectual property where it was coming up again and again and again and now it's

actually one of the key issues in this whole trade war but you have said you first of all how critical understand when you sat that it's not even their real issue. am i correct was not really sure where people you know willing to go to trade war this is i think it's not always i think the issue of intellectual property is a real issue i think enough u.s. companies have said they've had difficulties in that area. but we should not what we should be doing is responding kind of in kind if. china is requiring that a u.s. company provide its intellectual property to the chinese partner we should say the same thing with respect to chinese companies we should invite them to come in and require them to share or give us give american partners their intellectual property was another was we shouldn't start an enormous trade war over that particular issue or we should go after that issue and fix it. and i'm sure there's some things that china has to want to have fixed on our side because the u.s.

isn't perfect and it's for trade relations it's not like we don't have very high track terrorists. on canada for example in certain areas we do so. i'm just saying that the idea of starting a huge trade war we're trying to impose twenty five percent tariffs on all chinese products which is really where we're heading in march. trumps policy unless a trade deals is achieved do you think it's going to be achieved i mean at the china america were able to actually come till common ground before that do you think it's going to work this time they gave a ninety day period right to hammer out a deal what are the chances that it's going to work this time i think that the chinese are very proud and a nationalistic and chauvinist they're another another word in english i don't think they are willing to be pushed around by the us by trump and so i could see it not happening and i can see trump because trump knows best he thinks he

knows best putting on these terrorists and i can see that producing huge damage on both sides isn't. worst case scenario it's well it's it's a worst case scenario. what kind of damage will we have in both sides well we could have a major recession and you know once you put these tariffs on it's very hard they tend to last a long time for whatever reason so it's not that from one day to the next the next president will be able to get rid of them. i think the u.s. will just become isolated because i think china will turn to western europe and south america you know so if you look at chile for example china is the biggest trading partner of chile used to be the u.s. many countries in south america that's the case africa is russia's biggest trading partner as well you know so we can't ignore that reality that china is a major player and we can't make. they can easily let's say

has his way he wants china to qataris and american goods right open up the market a little. bit under the w t o rules if that happened for china will have to extend the cuts to other countries as well right so i'm just wondering why not just americans let's assume for a second trial has his way with china beijing has to open up more to american goods but will trump even be able to sort of the fruits of his victory without. competition. so i think there are different ways to negotiate with people and if you are with countries and if you make them into a war then you're not in a slow going to win you're not going to achieve you're going to end up with a war and not really get to an agreement yes we think that china should open itself up and normalize its economic behavior in many ways but they have done that to a large extent we have a lot of companies u.s. companies operating in china now a lot of european companies as well so. it's not like everybody's being

expropriated or who goes in operates in china because we have lots of companies are doing that but you know china we certainly could have improved trade relations but again the question is how do you get there do you do this in a public fight where the chinese get their backs up and they say you know we don't actually get there or do you have some quiet negotiations and say you have to you know we'd like you to do x. you want to do y. let's make a deal and also let's make a deal on the south china sea so we don't have a military confrontation. and this is what a great deal maker would do he would sit down have lots of conversations with the chinese ongoing basis he'd be involved in it i think trump is very much an involved in everything except his golf game i can tell. i don't think he you know i think he's bored by details but the details matter here and. so everything is

a confrontation with him that's how he ran his real estate business and that's how he thinks he can run our country to what do you make of approach to me he says it's inefficient and i don't think he is going to do what he's talking about i don't think he knows he's probably never read one hundred page study of the w t o or look he was the last time to pull the trigger and w.h.o. no not at all that's keeping. international trade working with. rules we should be if we have some problems with china the first thing we should be doing is taking them up with a w t o same thing with categorising then with mexico same thing with europe. that's the form that we agreed to work with within so. he's just like a lone ranger. shooting and shooting his pistol that he target that he sees that day that he decides that's the enemy i'm going to shoot at it and he said

manchanda can go around whatever it is it is going to canada and. and japan and europe and china together there their economies are about two and a half times the u.s. economy right now so here we're picking up a war a trade war with an economic. area collectively that's trying to have times larger than we are but also that doesn't make a lot of sense or as our last twenty twenty their forecast at china will grow up to tattle wealth leading economy to think america will catch up to that not lying and saying three of them together so on some measures china may be a larger economy than other measures nobody knows exactly what the right g.d.p. measure is but china is the same size as the us economy are already and it's going to get larger through time because their productivity is catching up to the u.s. they're investing in science or investing better you know in education. universities are cropping popping up every other other day it seems and in china so

they're investing extensively in infrastructure they have extremely high saving and investment rate overall and the u.s. is not in that ball game we're into a consumption ball game where we basically want to consume everything we earn and not save anything for the next generation and so over the over time that's going to end up with trying to be a much bigger economy than ours and we're going to be a sup you know kind of a second fiddle in this band and we have to start to understand that i don't think trump will ever understand this because i don't think he's capable of doing that but i think other politicians. need to understand this so here's saying china sub-saharan africa india will be space economies by the end of this if their productivity catches up you know you. lot of these countries have major problems

with corruption and that's why i call you third world countries that's what it seems like. very unlikely to people to partner with the like i think that like in twenty thirty forty years well it will be it seems very likely there will countries yeah but if you look at china go back forty years ago in china and this was a completely impoverished country there was nothing there basically in terms of. capital infrastructure if you go to shanghai today they have a river in the middle shanghai. they have seventeen bridges across the river they've got ten tunnels the u.s. new york city has a river dividing it from new jersey we have two tunnels that were built decades ago and we have one bridge. so you know you just see these enormously. you know i know i normally see konami growth right in front of your

eyes happening in china so that could be replicated in other places it has in southeast asia malaysia singapore hong kong these are growing korea north korea these are growth miracles vietnam will ultimately i think be a growth miracles well so it's going to happen there it could also happen in uganda and kenya but. people that we get serious about it and i see i don't think you know my eyes of the west a lot only talking with america about europe is one of the meeting times right now as well so if you're saying that all those countries are going to come front that means the west is just sort of retiring western europe japan the u.s. russia we're gone that entire collection of countries and regions that have been the main economic. players for executives now over time they're going to become it's much more players the world is going to evolve

china india middle east africa under certain scenarios they're going to represent about eighty percent of world g.d.p. at the end of the century and that scenario is where they do catch up in terms of productivity growth so one of the concerns i have is that superpowers don't like to become second rate players so if you look at the history of empires it's been difficult for an empire. which for economic and demographic reasons is becoming overshadowed by another empire another empire is on there on the rise and this empire is one of the kleine that usually happens in the context of a war that. the empire that's declining doesn't feel happy about that they're going to upset about that and and start a war and i'm worried that something like that will happen the u.s. has to become over time less important because. other countries are

growing much more rapidly just in terms of demographics alone and then you also have the the fact that this technology that we're that we have they can acquire very quickly right over the internet. so we're in a different world than we were in the past where these countries can now learn things very quickly. and get the best technology just just for free to certain extent. the call thank you very much for this interview and great talking with a kind armato thank you so much knowledge and steve thank you.

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british voters said yes to the clock started ticking towards march twenty. i was bragg said it is clear what members of parliament are against what is not clear just what the support time is running out is a compromise still. when lawmakers manufacture consent to stick to the public well. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the crime and. listen to the one percent. we can all middle of the room six. million real news is.

i've. done a little over. the . germany set saw and it stalled on saving a key cold war era nuclear arms treaty with the us about to hold a plug on the agreement russia warns washington the move could threaten global security saying it's ready for.