well. the trumpet ministration announces new sanctions against venezuela targeting the state oil company and freezing of billions in assets. the traces. the power struggle continues as venezuela's president urges his troops to stay loyal the country's self proclaimed a leader reveals he is working with sympathetic elements in the military to incite

a revolt. and neighbors italy and france do not see eye to eye in an escalating standoff as both countries call for the others that leadership to get better or get out. also in the united arab emirates they hold an award ceremony for those supporting gender equality but all of the recipients are men. to dot com has more on those and many other interesting stories. explores the role of mercenaries in fighting terrorism in africa. welcome to so. when i see is a fairly the same made up on my. mercenaries played

a major role in pushing the terrorist spec is outsourcing the name of the game when it comes to modern conflicts will ask. to mention director at programs africa and veteran soldier for hire. mercenaries have been the mainstay of africa for decades having a decisive impact in sierra leone and nigeria and other theaters of conflict and while the media portrays them as as cash hungry brutes local government still has soldiers of fortune to get them out of tight spots. companies more efficient than regular national on this continent private military contract is a viable solution to this regional conflicts and could their actions help to bring peace to water on hotspots. call this class and managing director at programs africa and executive outcomes veteran welcome to the show it's great to have you

with us because you run your own security company now after having spent years in the special forces and then reached fame as a member of mercenary unit excited about comes there have been t.v. programmes about you a character based on you it was played by leonardo di caprio and blood diamond are you using all his fame and attention to bring more clients to promote the business is a good thing. right so we all get older obviously and we followed the film career process let me just make the fire something from the stuff not so much special forces units as airborne units close but not the same that's where i spent my military career and yes off of it i joined executive outcomes and i had a couple of years with them and after that i formed my own company and then carried on from there and now for the last eleven twelve years it's been programs africa which i'm a show that i'm the director quite happy to do normal commercial and domestic type

of security work. all right but what about the media question do you like the media attention that help you get climate clients is that a good is a good thing for business no i don't like media shy and so many people in my in my business however i'm one of the older guys around and i feel that we should have a voice and if it's a sensible so the questions we should answer them and we should speak out for our industry and also for that of the private military business because we feel that has the right to exist as a place of modern business and politics and somebody should answer those questions and be on the media so here i am reluctant to leave but quite willingly yes so why is it though because other mercenaries from your generation that i talk to and i've spoken to quite a few they said that the media always portrays them in a negative light do you feel that things as well do you feel that the public

opinion is against you because you're considered a mercenary. well well thought out well balanced media will follow the story regardless unfortunately in the early days of executive outcomes. there was a a more sinister or a more politically driven agenda death planted stories this is well documented given ballers of the search and the subsequent book on there. so to a degree executive outcomes was the victim of a smear campaign which is different from good reporting on the other side of the coin we have enjoyed a fair and honest reporting for example the b.b.c. reported on our presence in sierra leone that can ninety five ninety six ninety seven in a very favorable and correct manner because at the end of that conflict all parties that was in the conflict was tried it was investigated by the special court.

and executive elton's was given a clean bill of health and this was well reported by the b.b.c. and it was picked up by other news media so yes there's good and bad we have to live with it that's that's what in the world that we live in so the private military companies on the continent like pilgrims africa that you're running because they're all based on people like you south african or are the original army veterans is there a new generation coming to replace you guys are there young people interested in this kind of work. i maybe just make another distinction quickly pogroms africa is part of the british pogroms group and we have commercial security for well over a dish that we pay our taxes and we do nothing that can be considered to be but at the type of work. but yes to answer the second part of your question in private military companies they certainly ease a new generation back in the day it was an exclusive small group most commonly known as the so everybody knew each other and to

a degree people understood that if a station of people and because death is one of the action in iraq and afghanistan that led to a whole generation of new young short soldiers that left the services and went into the private security work and many of them found their way into private military companies the market was flooded not necessarily with quality people many of the guys were good but many of the guys were not so good and some of them got kicked out of the military and also migrated towards a career in the private security industry so. to be honest modern security persons have to catch up with that in the world and properly bait. candidates and employees and go through the same process as any corporate entity would be studies to determine if the candidate sitting in front of them for the job interview is in fact qualified is in fact experienced and he's infected aren't going for the job.

so. i can see that you know. you're so experienced in the military world and in private military what how do you recruit people do you look for physical attributes first and foremost or mental strength or moral fiber how can you tell without combat tasking that a person is solid reliable hireable. well this again two sides to this this on so the first is a commercial security business that is of international scale and it s. clients that a list of companies all over the world. you know there's a new international standard for security companies it's called the p a c one standard united nations that i've been in this client facing it is all about compliance and so as part of that process we have to be compliant with the way we recruit a person no whether we recruit the security guard or whether we recruit the director so we go through the same recruitment process as any corporate entity would go

through when it comes to a p m c or other let me let me delve down a little bit into the sort of slightly murkier world but at the contracts that was handed dodgy governments all by dodgy entities and it's word of mouth normally they would approach somebody that they trust or they would be they would be i have a solution it's to them by a entity that is what it is that offshoring that consists of former military personnel and those guys with the word of mouth that they would use social media or phone calls emails and they would gather the guards pretty quickly. in general they were that it could people they know but if it's a large contractor there's a lot of guys needed and obviously sometimes the quality slips a little bit. so you mentioned that your company mostly does defense where can you said that you make a distinction between companies that only do protection jobs and those that also go on this sensitive jing in this working on a company that can mount offensive operations and more fun to me chopper hopping

after i don't know boko haram going to bush than escorting an oil executive from the airport to their rake and back. there's all sorts of differences between a commercial security company and a p.m.c. . a commercial security company delivers a wide range of services that borders on the just eco services outsourcing services technical services for example the installation of security measures around a office of c.c.t.v. cameras fencing lights it provides man guarding this is a god the front of office guy that sits at a security post or somebody that patrols a large yard with a sense now on the other hand the p.m.c. will often engage in combat and that for me is the difference p.m.c. is don't necessarily engage in combat p.m.c. use private military companies can get involved in the back end. but at the. proper but at least proper armies across the world in

a support role but pm sees are sometimes also involved in combat training and then in some cases they get involved in combat and that for me is the main distinction if you ask me whether i miss the days that i left the army and i in part of a private company i think it's incumbent yes it's a brotherhood and you do miss. and it is special and the bonds that you form back then stays with you forever but as you can see i'm getting older and greyer now that is not my number one priority in life anymore do you ever encounter customers that try to misrepresent your mission in any way you're interviewing south right there to work. oh no. it's the store it's the stuff the stories of fictional made off to be honest when a p.m.c. engages with a customer. the contractual requirements and normally laid bare long before any work is done before any money changes hands during a mission or during

a deployment or during the duration of a contract yes that acquirements may change but being tricked into a change it's never have after that in any operation or any kind of conflict i was involved in. normally they would be a bit of give and take normally they would be add on expectations from the customer sometimes objectives are met by the p.m.c. not necessarily a visible clear or the specific objectives that the client wants and so that would be a process of negotiation it is a business off the dole. time something when p m c's have to defeat an enemy on the ground they act like classic army stay start with an air onslaught then finish them on the ground one of the techniques used to void similarly in collateral yes when a p.m.c. in gauges of combat it's there's no difference between that and any other armed force encouraging combat the fact that they for some reason work for a civilian company or a private company does what they are on

a contract break makes no difference once the bullets start flying the same tactics apply and. in each and every case that i have been involved in that i know of the mcs took extraordinary measures to avoid collateral damage specifically the targeting or even the accidental harm to civilians in most cases they were they were greatly successful because they said that as an object of a a standing army. that attacks or bombs or target will consider collateral damage but in the political way it's not their prime concern whereas for a few mc it is very much so often in the planning for most of your combat operations for a few see where i was involved. the effect and the impact on civilians was front and foremost in the planners minds and often times when there was a chance of civilians getting hurt the plan was not executed to us modify in order to avoid that. like any private business is concerned is those things that is best

for business having civilians hurt or killed or having a property damage that shouldn't be damaged is definitely bad for business so therefore of p.m.c. sometimes considers things in a different way than a standing military would. take a shower break right now we'll be back discussing outsourcing of war to private companies with covers class and head of programs africa and battering gun for hire stay with. the. child's seemed wrong but all girls just don't know all. the world

yet to shape our lives just to come out again and again tread because the trail. once on many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. you should. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to express. want. to write for us this is what the three of the more people are. interested always in the water. in a world of big. logs and conspiracy it's time to wake up to

dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. and we're back with classes had of programs africa security company and former member of executive outcomes talking about his life as a ground for higher on the role of private military companies only modern battlefield so you want convention bands to use of mercenaries while civilian

governments use it as a dirty word and yet we see that time and time again where serious come to their rescue i say in sierra leone there for instance against boko haram exciter why are private military contractors more effective than un peacekeepers or national armies for that. well it kind of comes down to a innovative makes but the strategy and tactics mix with business principles so that's where the p.m.c. has an advantage over an army like we call it that. they want to respond for example to a client request in the quickest most efficient way possible political considerations not so for much for most in their plenty but in a sprint suppose on him getting paid by the hour then you would make sure that you're as efficient as you can be in the hour so that's first and foremost where the pm sees can be more efficient then but of things i have to qualify that is no

p.m.c. on this planet that can fight a major war that's not the point and that's never a way of p.m.'s he's comes in at this point in time and into the foreseeable future of p.m.c. is provides a limit that he gets put in efficient solution as part of a larger than broader solution for example you mention backcourt on the other ninety eight and i happen to be an i g eight and they happen to understand what happened here the p.m.c. that came here was not contracted through window wall the p.m.c. that came here was contract that train a unit and to create that from scratch and then to go into combat and achieve limited objectives so as to show the nigerian but at the some initiative to get them on the front foot to get some momentum going and to achieve certain limited objectives i believe they were contracted initially only to come in and rescue the chibok girls you remember the girls that were kidnapped from their school and that

mission been changed eventually became slightly broader in scope but they were never the idea that they would stay here for years and fight the war it was meant to be fought by the national army they were for a specific mission and that's why some people make the mistake and report the wrongly not children soldiers a brave and physically capable fighting quite willing to fight it's a matter of fact that some of the best in the world i fought with them i can i can say that. however the leadership has failed and possibly the ship has teach in the right that the logistical capabilities are not cheated but at the end they training has been lacking has been lacking going so they had a p.m.c. can come in because of the slack very quickly at least all the training standards and doctrine at the same time help them with their logistical supply and procurement so that i things of all the things that will method and make a difference teach them how to use that help them to deploy that and then step back and step out of this out of the picture so the pm sees it all is a limit that b. is a very effective one. so nigeria continues its struggle with alcohol iran which is

now seemingly split into two factions your former colleagues from meo have put the haraam on the wrong three years ago working for the nigerian government but saying that the group is still here whereas their efforts not out how would you assess. first of all if the full mario as you say executive alcoa's this band of the long time ago the company that was contracted to come and help the nigerian government. was a different company some of the personnel the things were the same but believe me very few on the whole this was at the from company at the from a bunch of people and i know because i met some of them and i spoke to them and obviously we interact on social media via e-mail and so forth. that they do a good job they did a brilliant job festively well considering the constraints of time and money they were given just a part of the budget that they were promised and they were given

a very short period of time as a matter of fact over the simba to mobilize and you know mobilization like that would be a logistical if and logistics means arms and ammunition nobody sells arms and ammunition over these private company everybody goes on holiday so they pulled it off and let it go myself and let it go because unfortunately due to financial constraints they confine themselves to base and then they left they withdrew out of nigeria it's a great pity that they were not given the opportunity to finish what they were contracted for i believe they would have saved hundreds of thousands of lines and i g.d.s. northeast would be in the politically far more stable condition than it is right now and like a lot of other militants in africa boko haram is operating in an area where it's is the to cross the border and fleeing to chalk nigeria cameron is facing too much pressure can nigeria even deal with it on its own. no i don't think so nigeria needs a concentrated effort. it has to be collaborative effort between each year

commitment chat at least and that year and all of these other countries needs help . most of them but at the hawke back to conventional days there are all the best of the structures the way they teach these soldiers and train them is a can in a conventional manner unfortunately they are facing a counter-insurgency or an insurgency in the me and they need to adopt a counterinsurgency strategy and tactics and equipment and formations they need help with that they need to be assistance in order to restructure the material the manpower on the ground fantastic brave stronger physically capable they nationalistic they are out of their countries they will find that they need to be helped how to find and they need to be equipped critic the untrained cricketing. iraqi that back in sierra leone excited about comes so successful because it was able to get help from local militias who knew the areas and the people in the side against alcohol rom do you see much trust between the military operating in the

country's north east and the locals. well that's an important decision for governments that are faced with an enemy like all caught on has to make and that is whether through in this civilian help officially in some countries like sierra leone it was done successfully dillo call hunting societies was organized enough that i'm going to the group and a part of that was placed on that executive outcomes controlled and utilized video activity the same can happen here but first of all there's to be a political decision by the political leadership of the country are we going to arm civilians and put them in harm's way in order to supply and support the military if they do make that decision and however wide or limited that decision may be in those people can be invaluable as a matter of fact right now the fight is scared to buckle at home and it's offspring by local militias that are some of the shotguns and the occasional like a forty seven these people are fighting to protect they have lands these villages and they have people so they are effective in what they are doing in

a counterinsurgency you know i think the scope for that to be organized well controlled well trained well mobilized and it will certainly add value to the hieron pledge allegiance to i says a long time ago but do you see and i says problems in nigeria start this as a real possibility at this stage or is it now more like a jihadi pipe dream. look i'm sure there's a technical difference between isis but for all our swell all cars on this island whatnot. if you take a step back and you look at the problem it isn't a militant islamist problem they each have a unique character uniquely theirs and maybe slight francis and tactics and approach to the issue but it's a common enemy and it starts with all the way across the region now and it should be seen as that so i have no idea what that isis with the study says so he hadn't called themselves that although they were there right on the back of the already

established islamist but at the movements you told me there's an enemy and is destabilizing the state killing a lot of innocent people need to be stopped welcome hieron reportedly uses child soldiers and so did the revolutionary revolutionary united front the group you faced off with in sierra leone did you ever have to engage a unit that includes children i mean how tough is it for a soldier to face them on a battlefield is a person and his size the child's first soldier second or vice versa. ok in africa young people as being combatants for evah in sierra leone we found that immediately. it's really hard for the soldier in a context situation in a battle situation to distinguish the age of the opponent all the sees is a shadow with a gun firing at him and he's completely within his rights and it is internationally has the right to defend himself or to attack that object and kill that person turns out to be a twelve year old with like

a forty seven it's heartbreaking but unfortunately unavoidable it has happened and it will continue to happen because these are not standing armies these are not people that play by the rules yes they recruit children so they are not responsible for my age of atrocities and they form a significant part of the combat force of all caught on when i saw double tragedy there's nothing to be done to avoid that it's a long term solution kids belong in school not on their arms you know conventional armies at this point have been going high tech would drown satellites other hardware in place is this high tech copper out also available to play mcs are they using the latest on the hottest or do that just make do with what you've got. no what astonishes me. military technology has gone over the last. the fact they're. directed to kill.

where on the wall to. have access to the first sophisticated all of. the working g.p.s. . perhaps the radio or satellite company and perhaps a little but not all moments then what often times it's even match forty seven. weapons perhaps the odd helicopter or fixed wing aircraft or two that makes the difference. thank you very much for this interview different to have. or talking to. better right up executive outcomes discussing his life with the soldier for hire on the future of privatized war that's it for this edition of i will see you next time.

u.s. veterans who come back from. stories. with people. they were. already several generations. destroyed. if we were willing to go into harms way. i'm willing to risk being killed for a war and surely we can risk some discomfort for an easy nose for peace. joining me every thursday on the elec simon shore

and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you there. as you read the stand and hear from us and. our all over again what. an hour that are on our show but there are rather democrats that are on the floor for them because of that. i'm going to let them but i'm going to cut in there you cut them and keep an eye on what i have flu channel for truffle that it is living. below the water then i'm on my machine little slow it does show the.

members of the hey how you want to do it. because it's whole food plus choice the i knew you didn't pay i think to a mysterious said. british. civil. law for them after the whole fuck around with mr hate for jim and then oil but i hope that our family in the course. of the money. if. thanks. if. readings and salutation is the great secret not really here in washington d.c. .