hunter s. thompson asked oh i was it all that oil turpentine it's got warming it's way through my brain cavity right now. you know foxy this me house equipment it carries around knobs and buttons and machines and he's recording stuff apparently people come up to him all the time and they say hey buddy are yo ghost hunter i think he's a ghost hunter looking for ghosts and that's funny that's you have to be kind of an older pre-millennial that's like ghostbusters sort of days i guess you know there's a big there's a big market for ghost hunting apparently a lot of t.v. shows roaming around old shadows and mansions looking for ghosts actually in flagstaff we're going to be i think we're staying at a haunted haunted hotel when you say haunted i mean i want to. not as haunted as those scary films he won't see yeah i'm not going to help low want to be

scaled. back again i'm surprised. i mean revenge of the bankhead never have been ok here interesting that we're going to go home not awesome ok get ready for the what. movie. it's not ask them what i think. the roads are going to be. god's country just had good intentions love it seems like route one fifty one i've never seen anything never seen a road called roots and i actually have no peeping at all this is like sedona gonzo with max the stacy and their color coordinated sweaters heading out into the gonzo countryside with a fully equipped picnic basket watching the apocalypse of america the great seats and well coordinated accessories. some of this landscape actually looks apocalyptic

when you know the street is just chopped down are fallen down or burned down or something is tree stumps and everywhere you look the storms come to blow the trees right off the stumps look at the list looks like something out of chain you know prufrock like she was said j. edgar prufrock sort of thing i think your myth you're mixing up j. edgar hoover and ts eliot ness are great j. edgar prufrock the story about a lone f.b.i. agent that those faces the wasteland that is held are yours and turn back the hands of time and get eaten by giant crumpet somewhere in london nobody misses the max you know this county that we're in right now has the highest percentage of need of americans in the state of arizona yeah i saw it like thirty percent thirty percent of the population in this county are native american mostly navajo but also hope he and some other few other tribes around here as well yeah i saw that was really

remarkable i didn't know that there were any counties anywhere that had such a high concentration of native americans and you definitely have a sense of their presence in this landscape because whenever you see native americans for trade it's always in the landscape like this right if i lived here and this is my land with all this beauty some dude came on inside of blasting at mining and looking for your gold and taking your stuff and taking your food and taking your wives and stuff like that like i might fight back and then be called a savage and b you know all this propaganda about me saying that she's the bad girl you know she's the one trying to keep us from taking our land look at the people throw mcdonald's that they don't get that a good number of strips of bacon on the double cheeseburger and they want to kill somebody imagine a native american having their land stolen you know a tomahawk to the skull and maybe that you know drive the point home get out we don't want you. again the violence is part of the d.n.a.

the make up of everything and the fabric of the world around us. it's a number of you know my feeling on my feeling on this give me your feeling because that's what contrasts thompson would do he would just emote his feelings violence and of itself is not the problem the problem is mr right the violence in other words there is an inherent stream of violence that goes back to the big bang of the universe and continues through the evolution of our species and the discovery of art and the. proliferation of our arts and science it's not in its own right to be cast to down because that is the fire right or brimstone that's the fire of life life is fire you can't end violence is part of life. here is

the grand canyon max so. i told you you're right the most fun type of thing i've ever seen there is literally nothing like this on earth like nothing at all that comparison so how would you possibly describe it to somebody when you first encounter it like the first europeans i came out here and before they killed all the natives and they came out here and they went back east like how they describe it like you don't understand you know i saw this big crack i could have been on pay already i'm not sure there was a crack like the earth ripped open and it's a hole that goes right down into the center of the earth and you can see everything you can see what the earth made out of right here oh boy of the rock problem obviously we humans we look at the features of long to have any on our own selves and thank you that's ugly but here this is like this is a wrinkled poor all. cleanest of our earth right and yet it's so beautiful it is

beauty and violence and ugliness and majestic grander all in one one is the result of decay and as the result of wear and tear but. of time of wear and tear of current away with god's. carving tool. it's actually called the river the river runs through it and has created this so it's simple physics and simple scientific forces simple forces of nature cause something so beautiful so majestic but of course max this is the sort of classic scene where one as a tourist takes a selfie you know and hopefully does not plunge off the side here so let's listen take our selfie.

away heading to flagstaff i also want to see things that flagstaff sounds like something kind of like a treat clint eastwood film like you know where john wayne sort of felt john we would hang out in flagstaff yeah you gotta go back before clooney all the way back john wayne yes. because clint eastwood was more of a desert he sort of. just feel like you were in the brady bunch you want to agree and. it was overwhelming. and a lot of ways parked on the railroad track seems like the beginning of some bad west what's the bright light coming this way and that clanging doesn't seem to be stuff really tracks but. here's two eastern. sort of carpetbaggers sort of people out here in the wild west where flagstaff are parked on some rebel tracks on the road. it's just coming on us over and i'm going to say you know we

did toothpick in their mouth and cowboy hat they can say yeah we'll make that stupid out here. you call a carpetbagger. max like i was saying this is the last lot of. people came out here a lot of gun fights out of gold miners a lot of people who might have. got trapped on the railroad track and got run over by a train so you know what that means in america that means there's ghosts goes yeah and we're going to go on a ghost or not too scared well. i haven't really made my peace with ghosts like some. good general. you are you know like a lead that watching scary film. you're ready to be scared. if you hold my hand. to hear it when max guys are welcome to flex

defcon detours my name is johnny and i'll be your tour guide and we had a concert location right now we are a very haunted location the city of flagstaff hired a psychic to come in and verify that we had. some spirit here she spent half a day investigating every nook and cranny when she was done we asked her do we have a ghost here and her answer was no. you have thirty three of them thirty three verify that that's a verified fact now you would suspect and say well why thirty three well we have an intersection there as well as over there with the train and i. have personally seen people get in the intersections just say that yeah that's what this is pokey i'm going to try to be maybe i was like yeah i'm feeling it back in the old days one hundred fifty years ago flagstaff was what was a famous for timber number that was what brought people here wanted. yeah and

eventually it turned out to be other things like the university tourism lots of cowboys and i hear you're a cowboy when you're not chasing ghosts. do you can you lasso again and really you can let go a ghost a ghost not a ghost. you're going to train. to. play. the role do you play we just don't hear about it. reserves yet and we promote it. of course because we're capital as we sell tickets to come see that goes yes with typical ghosts that you have in flagstaff is it just like a troublemaker we have some mischievous ones we have some of that try to help us very helpful really is like over at the milken house let's go check some of them out let's go let others it. i'm not looking for

a helpful ghost i'm looking for one that will scare max yeah that won't be tough for. me and i mean i did you know maybe more years but. it's one of. those whom you know most of the best to be in your years and years it was notable just a little bit of money but really you know. please don't please the ways but i did my best religion as though i did. not. need them yes this is. one of those. these you. know it's

a movie in. the us in order to guarantee bands by the population will engage in soft totalitarianism and that's clearly on the march and the population is ready for it you know they were those had to say ok gotta get ready for their get ready to be controlled. by. the. plague.

all right this hotel is very haunting and one of the first people to report ever seen a ghostly figure here was none other than john wayne himself they were filming from here and he was staying here he was going to room when he heard a knock on the door he asked who is it and the voice answered this is the room service he got up to see who was because he hadn't ordered anything on the whole he saw a young man dressed with a box in del boy walking away from him and he says what did you want the young man turned around smiled at him and just continued walking into the flagstaff i

was saying earlier is more of a john wayne town than a clint eastwood town i would think so yes i got that sense when i you know know you something the duke the duke was here he saw goes. because he was a man of action you see something you say something and he said something you had actually said it was never a gun slingers well i played the part of the gun slinger my so i could tell you have a quick draw out absolutely if he didn't flinch when i do that i was waiting for you. to see that incredible story and i was just looking at raw tomatoes found american animals a film about you know as a ninety seven percent rating it's like people love this film your book is called evolution and the sometimes all is becoming a criminal did you become a criminal i definitely consider myself a criminal but i definitely went through a peer. and in my life that i did become

a criminal yes then what exactly happened because as i understand it you got the idea after being inspired maybe by the wrong influences to pull a heist i grew up watching these iconic criminals and really idolizing this this kind of behavior. you know movies like ocean's eleven thomas crown affair snatch you know kind of the the smooth criminal and i ended up emanating their their behavior right so a lot of times you hear that movies have an influence on folks and in your case we can say that influenced you in a way that it glamorized crime you refer to these as iconic criminals and certainly in america there's a tradition of the of the rogue the gangster of the huckster and some people like and trump in this tradition that he's a snake oil salesman but he's part of the american character you've come up through a system that has lionized and glamorized guys like yourself so you

you perpetrated these crimes and then you got caught and then you went into the american legal system so my full sentence was eighty seven months this was a victimless crime you know it wasn't so there was a librarian on duty. two of the people who committed the heist with the actually tied up the librarian i was the get away driver and in the process of the high east we end up stealing trolls darwin's on the origin of species. illuminated manuscripts from the fourteen hundreds medical dictionaries and long to thomas jefferson and in court we were charged with a value in excess of four point five million dollars why even go after and still these old dusty textbooks or was it just an idea of the heist itself there's a big thing that happens in the transition between childhood and adulthood and i actually start my my book. with the quotes it's an african proverb and it says if

the youth are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth and in my particular case. i have been approached by my three friends who were also involved in the heist about the heist about a year prior to it actually taking place and i felt i had too much to lose so i just kind of laughed it off and i said no this is stupid you're going to get yourselves caught don't do that and then i had kind of the perfect storm of negative events happening in my personal and family life and i grew up very entitled and i grew up with a lot of opportunity and then all the sudden everything that i was building my hopes and dreams on it's disappeared we're going to talk about the title of the second i want to focus on this i'm going to quote you're talking about if there's not a proper initiation the youth will burn down the village and in america themes like that it's a culture steeped in infantilization that all everything can't be coddled enough

that we're all basically getting a gold star for everything we do and there is no coming that initiation into let's say especially in the male side of the equation too from puberty through puberty into adulthood i think that in title men is coming from a place of not understanding consequence you know and not being held accountable for our actions and in my situation yeah i ended up doing this crime not really thinking about the far reaching implications i actually had quite a few people in my community where i grew up who were very influential within the community and they reached out to the judge and pleaded to the judge for mercy you know saying i'm a first time offender you know please give this this kid a chance don't there was life away in prison and ultimately the judge spoke to that and she said that. because you know myself and the other three guys involved in the

heist. because we want. inner city kids who didn't have opportunities. that she she actually wouldn't take exception to us and it was actually the opposite that she wanted to make an example out of us because we did have opportunities and we did have a path toward success but still we chose to commit a crime so tell us about life in the incarceration what was it like. it's hard to describe everything that you see and hear about in film and t.v. it all happens all of it the the rapes the violence the. good things happening behind the scenes with the with the guards and things like that it all happens but for the most part those things happen few and far between so most of the most of my time in prison was spent. in

boredom trying to find ways to make my time positive and productive so i think the depiction of prison life in hollywood is fairly accurate and it shows incredible violence and that you found that to be true it's incredibly accurate because it does happen they just don't show the amount of time in between those those intense moments right apparently the america is a country in the world with the highest incidence by far the any country in the world of male rate due to the incredibly large prison population the largest prison population in the world we have five percent of the world's population but twenty five percent of the world's incarcerated on the list and there's something wrong what do you think we're becoming somewhat introspective and circumspect about all this why do you think that is i made it my mission to make my time for doctor of and useful. i think in general the the american. justice. system is based mostly on punishment and i think it's really really important that it become

more based in education and rehabilitation i was able to do that for myself and seek that but there's a lot of people who don't have the opportunities and resources that i have to rehabilitate and to educate themselves ok but you know we've got a little problem here because i don't lising the wrong type of hero and sending a lot of people to jail ultimately in jail is a for profit business owned by corporations listed on the new york stock exchange that is no incentive not to stop this is somebody line of criminals and to glorify criminals and without it the g.d.p.'s and i say should be cut down and we need higher g.d.p. above all else us that we live for we need a higher g.d.p. but all of those people who are basically being taken advantage of in earning slave wages you know at most you can earn there is maybe a dollar a day in prison in prison but wait a minute surely slavery was outlawed in this country know all i think the the

thirteenth amendment allows for slavery of those who are incarcerated chiefly listen first it's so there's a set of put people in prison there is joy if you buy american heroic archetype that inspired you to fall ill of the righteous path and end up supporting the g.d.p. of prisons and drugs in america i personally do not feel victimized at all i mean i made my own decisions and ultimately i paid the price for. all the journey east to go backwards to america timeline and find out exactly what makes this country tick how do we become what we are who who we are the charlatans the pickpockets the nuts geniuses going to end up in the swamp land of florida and everything goes if we end up in prison can i call you. absolutely can i be happy to show you the ropes and i look forward to seeing what you guys uncover on that journey. that's very generous

thank you so much absolutely all right many thanks mark sunny take your stood. flagstaff is a good book and to las vegas you know for your interview with that guy chaz because vegas is like has romanticized the gangster you know through films like ocean's eleven and or casino as built by gangsters and had those bugsy siegel like gangsters there and then flagstaff is that old gunslinger wild west sort of character who appeared in my eyes is the american character on film yeah that's initiating the slick the. plates and the grand canyon to dig through the different eras of different time zones you know the archaeological stratification you see the different the pox and with stuff it's the

john wayne period of american mythology we're still john wayne today we go overseas and we were you store law and order and we bring law and order and we we bring order to their chaos and the you know these people don't know how to live we've restored this little some sort of sense of order to the natural way they live well that guy johnny his ghost stories weren't all that scary i hate to tell them but they were very scary when you have cable news but he did make a great point about the reason why americans believe in ghosts versus europe is a he believes a low americans we make money off ghosts as a so that's why we talk about it we have like ghosts they feel the need to work there's a there's a strong work ethic in the ghost community when johnny said that americans talk about ghosts a lot because they make money off it what it reminded me. love is our national

parks because we've gone through yosemite we've passed their grand canyon and all of these are really the ghosts of the former people the first peoples the need of americans is we're making thirty six billion dollars a year by the way our national parks bring in thirty six billion who are making it off the ghosts of the people that used to live here their original inhabitants when lincoln opened you some of the eight hundred sixty four it was just ten years after the massacre of the us how many people and so they were about was over i could turn around that was just like the cable news shock jock of his day it's like you know we had a huge massacre also for the national park yet what's the biggest doing now that they're turning the ghosts of michael jackson through all the grahams it's a money maker. so that's right and amy winehouse she's going on tour even though she's dead so i think i think that guy johnny was on to something to seem to capture this like ghost goes to become a commodity everything has been commodified that's it appeared to me of neil

liberal economics which everybody is rebelling against. the ghost industrial complex ghost industrial complex he was part of it he was johnny for cosa nostra called. a.

as you read the stand in here from us and. move from one. of our good armor our mars rover and our brother across the top of the fourth down to care that. i'm going to let combat of i don't catch and then you cut and kick and. i had flu china for truffle that it. doesn't make them. below the water then our modeling. number set up around the hey how do you want to do it. because it's whole food plus choice the i'm yours or you have an unfair our child mysterious. british. civil. law for the africa will fuck

around with mr hates it for jim and then where i hope that our friend in the course . of the money. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race off and spearing dramatic development the only really i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. and i think this is a leader still must. have . actually you know. what i want.

and there's a number you know you not. can if you could vote all of them ok if there. was not a master plan a it would be a battle they have laid. out a good watch i don't know that i'd be able to. talk about that having. given people. give the nod now to. what the how do we. know those they need the whole corn to go forward. but i would not so and i think. it's good you know. as you.

know most of us to be in yours and yours are always notable to be very. much why would you. please not believe the ways but i do my best religion as the wife. for. you for me yes this is. one of those. choices you. know it's not a movie in your view. from. the headlines this hour the crisis in venezuela intensifies a new wave of u.s. sanctions by president durham's says he fears assassination and his call for new elections for the opposition held national assembly. is no time for dialogue this

is time for. all options are on the table.