you may be completely different than the mr. so i guess if you're heading out of vegas i mean the theory is that what happens in vegas especially stay you may guess bright they can keep it. to i'm already completely blank i can remember a single thing that happened i think it's good nothing leaves a vegas because they do one of them your allies are on the exit where they just delete your brain they don't number. the really stinks that we had a hand in that convertible the missing and already are missing it deeply literally because we have alex shaffer us painting in the back and oil fields are really. making me feel a little bit hunter s. thompson asked oh i was it all that oil turpentine it's got warming it's way through my brain cavity right now. you know foxy this me house equipment it carries around knobs and buttons and machines and

he's recording stuff apparently people come up to him all the time and they say hey buddy are yo ghost hunter i think he's a ghost hunter looking for ghosts and that's funny as you have to be kind of an older pre-millennial that's like ghostbusters sort of days i guess you know there's a big there's a big market for ghost hunting apparently a lot of t.v. shows roaming around old shadows and mansions looking for ghosts actually in flagstaff we're going to be i think we're staying at a haunted haunted hotel when you say haunted i mean i want to. not as haunted as those scary films he won't see yeah i'm not going to i want to be scaled . back yeah i'm surprised. if you're eventually bankhead never have been ok you're interesting that we're going to go home that's possible ok get ready. a friend says well. below. it's not ask

the what i think. the road to be. god's country just that good intentions love it seems like route one fifty one i've never seen it's never seen a road called a route and actually have no peeping at all this is like sedona gonzo with max the stacy in their color coordinated sweaters heading out into the gonzo countryside with a fully equipped picnic baskets watching the apocalypse of america the great seeds and well coordinated accessories some of this landscape actually looks apocalyptic with you know these trees just chopped down are falling down or burned down or something is tree stumps and everywhere you look you know the storms come to blow the trees right off the stumps look at the list looks like something out of chain

prufrock like she was said she had her prufrock sort of thing i think you're a myth you're mixing up j. edgar hoover and ts eliot it's a great j. edgar prufrock a story about a lone f.b.i. agent who is faces the wasteland that is the older years and turn back the hands of time and gets eaten by giant crumpet somewhere in london nobody misses max you know this county that we're in right now has the highest percentage of need of americans in the state of arizona yeah i saw it like thirty percent thirty percent of the population in this county are native american mostly navajo but also hope be. some of the few other tribes around here as well yeah that was really remarkable i didn't know that there were any counties anywhere that had such a high concentration of native americans and you definitely have a sense of their presence in this landscape because when you ever see native americans for trade it's. i was in

a landscape like this right if i lived here and this is my land with all this beauty some dude came along instead of blasting and mining and looking for your gold and taking your stuff and taking your food and taking your wives and stuff like that like i might fight back and then be called a savage and b you know all this propaganda about me saying that she's the bad girl you know she's the one trying to keep us from taking our land look at the people throw at mcdonald's if they don't got a good number of strips of bacon on the double cheeseburger and they want to kill somebody imagine a native american having their land stolen you know a tomahawk to the skull and maybe that you know drive the point home get out we don't want you again the violence is part of the d.n.a. the make up of everything in the fabric of the world around us. it's a member of my feeling on my feeling on this give me your feeling because that's what hunter s. thompson would do he would just emote his feelings violence and of itself is not

the problem the problem is mr wright the violence in other words there is an inherent stream of violence that goes back to the big bang of the universe and continues through the evolution of our species and the discovery of art and the. proliferation of our art and science and it's not in its own right to be cast to down because that is the fire right i don't princetown that's the fire of life life is fire you can't end violence is part of life. here is the grand canyon mag so. i told you you're right for most for tackling them understand there is literally nothing like this on earth like nothing at all that comparison so. how

would you possibly describe it to somebody when you first encounter it like the first europeans i came out here and before they killed all the natives and they came out here and they went back east like how they describe it like you don't understand i saw this big crack i could have been on pay already i'm not sure there was a crack like the earth ripped open and it's a hole that goes right down into the center of the earth you can see everything you can see what the earth made right here oh boy of the rock problem obviously we humans we look at the features of long devaney on our own selves and thank you that's ugly but here this is like this is a wrinkle poor ugliness of earth and yet it's so beautiful it is beauty and violence and ugliness and majestic grander all in one why it's the result of decay and as the result of wear and tear but. of time of wear and tear have carved

away with god's. carving tool that lets call it it's actually called the river the river runs through it and has created this so it's simple physics and simple scientific forces simple forces of nature cause something so beautiful so majestic but of course max this is the sort of classic scene where one as a tourist takes a selfie you know and hopefully does not plunge off the side here so let's listen take our selfie. away and flagstaff also want to see things that flagstaff sounds like something like a treat clint eastwood like you know where john wayne sort of felt john wayne would hang out in flagstaff yeah you got to go back before a clip. all the way back to john wayne yes. because clint eastwood was more of

a desert he sort of you. just feel like you were in the brady bunch you went to the grand canyon. it was overwhelming. and a lot away from parked on the railroad track seems like the beginning of some bad west what's the bright light coming this way and not clanging doesn't seem to be stopped probably tracks but. here's two eastern. sort of carpetbaggers sort of people out here in the wild west from flagstaff or parked on some railroad tracks on the railroads and just come and run us over and i'm going to say you know we did toothpick in their mouth and cowboy hat they can say yeah we'll make that stupid out here. who you call a carpetbagger. so max like i was saying this is the old west

a lot of. people came out here a lot of gunfights lot of gold miners and a lot of people who might have. got trapped on the railroad track and got run over by a train so you know what that means in america that means there's ghosts goes yeah and we're going to go on a ghost or not too scared well i haven't really made my peace with ghosts like somehow i get generally. you are you know like a wind that watching scary film. you're ready to be scared. if you hold my hand little. it took to hear it when max guys are welcome to fly steps home detours my name is johnny and i and i go i'll be your tour guide and we had a concert location right now we are a very hunt of location and the city of lights down hired a psychic to come in and verify that we had. some spirit here she spent half

a day investigating every nook and cranny when she was done we asked her do we have a ghost here and her answer was no. you have thirty three of them thirty three verify that that's a verified fact you would suspect and say why thirty three well we have an intersection there as well as over there with the train and i. personally seen people get in the intersections. yeah this is pokey i don't you know maybe i was like yeah i'm feeling it back in the old days one hundred fifty years ago flagstaff was what was a famous for timber number and that was what brought people here all eventually and eventually it turned out to be other things like the university tourism lots of cowboys and i hear you're a cowboy when you're not chasing ghosts. do you can you lasso again really you can last oh a ghost a ghost not

a ghost. you're going to train. my. slave to. be probably the way we just don't hear about it. yet and we promote it. of course because we're capital as we sell tickets to come see that goes with typical ghosts that you have in flagstaff just like a couple make or have some mischievous ones we have some that try to help us very helpful really like over at the milton house let's go check some of them out let's go let others it. i'm not looking for a helpful ghost and looking for one that will scare max yet i won't be tough.

i think syphilis he has a bigger chance to when election. if they have the election people know they are suffering from many things they're. sick you are i think safer this time begin to think that they can help the country and to make it to bed to become secure and stable country so i think he has a big chance they think the people they got ninety percent of the people they gonna be happy if the perception is that when that shit. you know world of big partisan law and conspiracies it's time to wake up to dig deeper to get the stories that midstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for

the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. united states. news and its tax on other countries. economic sanctions or are often just the beginning another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries and talking about. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. we have a responsibility for the head. and we need to make rules for the rest. because without us there will be.

all right this hotel is very haunting and one of the first people to report ever seen a ghostly figure here was none other than john wayne himself they were filming from here and he was staying here he was going to room when he all but some heard a knock on the door he asked who is it and the voice answered this is the room service he got up to see who was because he hadn't ordered anything on the whole he saw a young man dressed with a pill box and del boy walking away from him and he says what did you want the young man turned around smiled at him and just continued walking into the year flagstaff i was saying earlier is more of a john wayne town than

a clint eastwood town i would think so yes i got that sense when i you know know you something the duke the duke was here he saw goes and report you because he was a man of action you see something you say something and he said something and you actually said it was never a gun slingers well i played the part of a gunslinger myself i could tell you have a quick draw absolutely if he didn't flinch when i do that i was waiting for you. to see that incredible story and i was just looking at rob tomatoes found american animal. the film about you as a ninety seven percent rating it's like people love this film your book is called evolution and the subtitle is becoming a criminal did you become a criminal i definitely don't consider myself a criminal but i definitely went through a period in my life that i did become a criminal yes then what exactly happened because as i understand it you got the

idea after being inspired maybe by the wrong influences to pull a heist i grew up watching these iconic criminals and really idolizing this this kind of behavior. you know movies like ocean's eleven thomas crown affair snatch you know kind of the the smooth criminal and i ended up in aiding their their behavior right so a lot of times you hear that movies have an influence on folks and in your case we can say that influenced you in a way that it glamorized crime you refer to these as iconic criminals and certainly in america there's a tradition of the of the rogue of the gangster of the huckster and some people like and trump in this tradition that he's a snake oil salesman but he's part of the american character you've come up through a system that has lionized and glamorized guys like yourself so you

you perpetrated these crimes and then you got caught and then you went into the american legal system so my full sentence was eighty seven months this was a victimless crime you know it wasn't so there was a librarian on duty. two of the people who committed the heist with the actually tied up the librarian i was the getaway driver and in the process of the high east we end up stealing trolls darwin's on the origin of species. illuminated manuscripts from the fourteen hundreds medical dictionaries and the long to thomas jefferson and in court we were charged with the value in excess of four point. five million dollars why even go after and still these old dusty textbooks or was it just an idea of the heist itself there's a big thing that happens in the transition between childhood and adulthood and i actually start my my book with a quote it's an african proverb and it says if the youth are not initiated into the

village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth and in my particular case. i've been approached by my three friends who are also involved in the heist about the heist about a year prior to it actually taking place and i felt i had too much to lose so i just kind of laughed it off and i said no this is stupid you're going to get yourself caught don't do that and then i had kind of a perfect storm of negative events happening in my personal and family life and i grew up very entitled and i grew up with a lot of opportunity and then all of the sudden everything that i was building my hopes and dreams on it's disappeared we're going to talk about the title of the second i want to focus on this i'm going to quote you talking about if there's not a proper initiation the youth will burn down the village and in america themes like it's a culture steeped in infantilization that all everything can't be coddled enough

that we're all basically getting a gold star for everything we do and there is no coming that initiation into let's say especially in the male side of the equation to from puberty through puberty into adulthood i think that in title men is coming from a place of not understanding consequence you know and not being held accountable for our actions and in my situation yeah i ended up doing this crime not really thinking about the far reaching implications i actually had quite a few people in my community where i grew up who were very influential within the community and they reached out. to the judge and pleaded to the judge for mercy you know saying i'm a first time offender you know please give this this kid a chance don't throw was life away in prison and ultimately the judge spoke to that and she said that because you know myself and the other three guys involved in the heist. because we want. inner city kids we didn't have opportunities.

that she she actually wouldn't take exception to us and it was actually the opposite that she wanted to make an example out of us because we did have opportunities and we did have a path toward success but still we chose to commit a crime so tell us about life in the incarceration what was it like. it's hard to describe everything that you see and hear about in film and t.v. it all happens all of it the the rapes the violence the. good things happening behind the scenes with the with the guards and things like that it all happens but for the most part those things happen few and far between so most of the most of my time in prison was spent. in

boredom trying to find ways to make my time positive and productive so i think the depiction of prison life in hollywood is fairly accurate and it shows incredible violence and you found that to be true it's incredibly accurate because it does happen they just don't show the amount of time in between those those intense moments right apparently the america is a country in the world with the highest incidence by far the any country in the world of male rape due to the incredibly large prison population the largest prison population in the world we have five percent of the world's population but twenty five percent of the world's incarcerated on the list and there's something wrong what do you think. we're becoming somewhat introspective and circumspect about all this why do you think i made it my mission to make my time for doctor and useful. i think in general the the american. justice system is based mostly on punishment and i think it's really really important that it become more based in education and

rehabilitation i was able to do that for myself and seek that but there's a lot of people who don't have the opportunities and resources that i have to rehabilitate and to educate themselves ok but you know we've got a little problem here because i don't lising the wrong type of hero and sending a lot of people to jail ultimately in jail is a for profit business owned by corporations listed on the new york stock exchange that is no incentive not to stop this to somebody line of criminals and to glorify criminals and without it the g.d.p.'s and i say should be cut down and we need higher g.d.p. above all else that's it we live for we need a higher g.d.p. but all of those people who are basically being taken advantage of in earning slave wages you know at most you can earn there is maybe a dollar a day in prison in prison but wait a minute surely slavery was outlawed in this country know all i think the the

thirteenth amendment allows for slavery of those who are incarcerated chiefly losers and first it's so there's a set of put people in prison there is joy if you buy american heroic archetype that inspired you to fall ill of the righteous path and end up supporting the g.d.p. of prisons and drugs in america i personally do not feel victimized at all i mean i made my own decisions and ultimately i paid the price for. all the journey east to go backwards to american timeline and find out exactly what makes this country tick how do we become what we are who who we are the charlatans the pickpockets the. nuts i think genius is going to end up in the swamp land of florida and everything goes if we end up in prison can i call you. absolutely can i be happy to show you the ropes and i look forward to seeing what you guys uncover on that journey that's right generous thank you so much absolutely all right many thanks max sunny take care of the stood.

flagstaff is a good book and to las vegas you know for your interview with that guy chaz because vegas is like has romanticized the gangster you know from films like ocean's eleven or casino as built by gangsters and had those bugsy siegel like gangsters there and then flagstaff is that old gunslinger wild west sort of character who appeared in my eyes is the american character on film yeah that's an interesting it's like the. plates and the grand canyon to dig through the different eras of different time zones you know the archaeological stratification you see the different the pox and with flagstaff it's the john wayne period of american mythology we're still john wayne today we go

overseas and we were you store law and order and we bring law and order and we will bring order to their chaos and the you know these people don't know how to live we've restored this little some sort of sense of order to the natural way they live well that guy johnny his ghost stories weren't all that scary i hate to tell them but they were very scary when you have cable news but he did make a great point about the reason why americans believe in ghosts versus europe is that he believes the low americans we make money off ghosts as a so that's why we talk about it we have like your time. ghosts feel the need to work there's a there's a strong work ethic in the ghost community when johnny said that americans talk about ghosts a lot because they make money off it what it reminded me of is our national parks because we've gone through yosemite we passed

a grand canyon and all of these are really the ghost of the former people the first peoples the need of americans is we're making thirty six billion dollars a year by the way our national parks bring in thirty six billion who are making it off the ghosts of the people that used to live here their original inhabitants when lincoln opened you some of the eight hundred sixty four it was just ten years after the massacre of the u.s. how many people and so they were about was over i could turn around that was just like the cable news shock jock of its day it's like you know we had a huge massacre here let's open a national park yet what's the biggest doing now that they're turning the ghosts of michael jackson through all the grahams into moneymakers. so that's where i am and amy winehouse she's going on tour even though she's dead so i think i think that guy johnny was on to something to seem to capture this like ghost goes to become a commodity everything has been commodified that's it appeared to me of neil

liberal economics which everybody is rebelling against. the ghost industrial complex ghost industrial complex he was part of it he was joining us for the ghost industrial complex. what politicians do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or

rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or something i want to be that's. what's it like to be for us that's what the four three in the morning can't be good for. i'm interested always in the waters in the house. first sitting. me let me the good judgment you know your. own cd it's one of. those whom you know most of us to be into you know the years it was not a. good month but you know. please the ways the ways the way i did my best religion as the wife. left me fit me yes this is. one of those. middle. school just minutes maybe

everyone calls the front. of the stand and have. no problem with a small. amount of goods that are on the run from a brother across the top of the fourth down because of that. i'm going to let them but i'm going to cut him a new cut and kick. and. i have floozie china for truffle. living. below. the hay for not doing.

good it's whole full plate choice i knew you wouldn't pay i think tom in theory has said. for you she ought to have a. model for the name after the whole fuck around mr hates it for jim and then we are hoping that our freedom in the court. donald trump again says he doesn't rule out sending troops to venezuela to support opposition leader one why door that's off to washington imposed new sanctions on the president to warn the us to back off and stop seeking received change from. venice.