made it stand point clear it's still at the negotiating table if the us has extra questions it has a right to ask them and russia in its turn has a right to answer them or not the americans need to reach enter into dialogue with russia and then things might improve but currently there is no sign of this and there's little chance of this happening as the u.s. needs to suspend the i.n.f. treaty is seeking a reason to exit it and attain supremacies in the arms alone. you're watching r.t. international my colleague niki i'll be have the latest for you at the top of the hour. the u.s. intel community in the political establishment challenge trumps foreign policy is this a good or bad thing also forced regime change in venezuela continues apace. join

me every thursday on the alex sullivan show and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome to. the curve of conflict is shaping up between a delay in brussels over budget and fears of a link recession who should be worried well to talk about this i'm joined by former interim prime minister and former head of the international monetary fund carlo could. easily europe's vanguard of the refugee crisis has seen

radical political change spurred by waves of migrants with a new populist government aspiring to transform europe but with the powers skeptical can usually put the e.u. as the ropes with new ideas against the big heavyweights how will rome's new leaders deal with financial crises and corruption and could italy be a driving force for change across the whole continent got a look at that aid to this former interim prime minister and former head of the into. national non-jury fund welcome to the show it's really great to have you with us. thank you mr gadkari they international monetary fund which she is to run says it all is a common growth in two thousand and nineteen is going to be slower than previously expected she did it would be worried about a collapse of the scale let's say greece but they go home and has that the market for growth all of one percent of g.d.p. the i.m.f.

says a zero point six per cent of g.d.p. i think zero point six per growth of zero point six percent the g.d.p. is much more real these things i think that the civi or growth rate over. starting where we are would require various throwing rocks at a regime of growth in the second half of two thousand and nineteen there used almost no way in which there could be such a large acceleration even in the civi or growth rate those zero point six percent in two thousand and thirteen would require an acceleration or with this back to what we have seen in the last in the third quarter over last year ok but they get to the point that the country's heavily in debt it your dad is by me italy's debt right now is one point eight trillion euros how will the country manage to dig itself out of that. it is a big issue and it definitely is if any become say. there is no growth.

i mean the problem was easier to solve in the last few years when growth was about two on one and how percent if if starting in two thousand and sixteen we had kept a public spending call about the in real terms so we don't any cuts with a growth rate of one one and how per se revenues would have increased the and we would have achieved in two thousand and three in one thousand about a budget if growth now stalled and he actually that he's a session things are going to be very difficult for he thought it was we need to be afraid that increasing the public debt to g.d.p. ratio the public debt to g.d.p. they both more or less and be with a growth rate of zero point six will still be more or less a stable but if we get into a session then the public debt to g.d.p. ratio was to rising and that is going to create major proverbs that goes these could trigger to call for this crisis so mid december in brussels and then chile

approved italy's budget after months of bickering saying graham spending plans were to extravagant now elites being forced to shave billions off its budget at least leadership say the deal doesn't betray the italian people and is good for both sides is that so or is rome just trying to save face. well the government is the leaving something there's no doubt about this it's delivering less than walt that they had promised. but walt said probably is during the electoral bail was clearly. actually impossible to to do the war spending probably says. of one hundred ten b.n. over the next five years. so that is an increase in spending for this year they found a temporary spending cuts and so this year the deficit does not increase very much a yet the leaving these mean. and median income

to so-called citizens income and leave it for more of a dependency is that which with people to retire earlier but the so for this year they found some sources of financing without a major increase in the public deficit but for two thousand and twenty he said mr. polly meant approved any increase in v.a. t. for next year to a level of twenty five percent which would actually raised to twenty six point five percent in two thousand and twenty one but the government has already said that this is not going to happen so it's not clear wall toward the how the finance it will be found for next year if they don't found a for announcing that the deficit will rise to over three three and harper said the g.d.p. that's the big question because it did the social spending is very big on italy's government president has signed a decree that would bring in basic income for the poor decreased the retirement age

and that's all great but are these measures were really needed really are these measures what in doubt italy really needs right now and how would that match ways brasil's a stereotype measures. nine if he thought he had a low public debt to g.d.p. ratio i think he could afford tickets to risk their own the spending on the spending side. particularly in a situation in which the economy is those. bodies are fine even. if the stimulus ball he says are fine if a god who has a low public debt to g.d.p. ratio when the public debt to g.d.p. ratio is so high markets may get to nervous and indeed they did they get nervous when the government was getting a deficit of two point four percent of g.d.p. paramus on a growth rate of one and a how percent which was unachievable the government however. scaled

their spending. t.v. to fold the seer so the deficit in to be two per cent with a lower growth rate but there is a big risk even in achieving these targets if the darkness of not to achieve that and the deficit these larger and especially in a call to see which the economy is now growing or is a shrinking then there could be a very serious problem i don't foresee these happening i think that hopefully this slowdown of economic activity in europe is temporary. recover but if we get into a recession it's a major problem. for the us the euro a staring measures proposed and i and wrestles because that's what they keep doing for the past ten years it never worked for any single economy in the e.u. why would it work oh are easily. but it doesn't seem to me the browser has been

proposing austerity measures for for the last few years. brussels says allowed eataly to one day in an unchanged. declining primary surplus primary surplus is the balance net of the spirit the deficit has been declining very slowly so you open says give it a lot of room for they do a lot of time for you thirty two feet. if that is not does so as they said if he had kept without the newest it without any cuts in public spending if it that he had month ain't spending caused in real terms for the last few years so without any couch we doubt then your state be in a situation in which he thought it was growing now we would have a balanced budget we have lost di and now we get into a situation that is very difficult to to tackle because if the economy is those

down exposure any measures will be needed but the exposure in measure will may markets nervous so if you're asking me what is the solution i don't know of this bar or the school of the solution these unfortunately we may be. getting into a very difficult and very doubtful state to measure seen a crisis like in two thousand and eleven it may be necessary they don't help the economy to grow it at that point but there is no alternative at that point if you get the government can refinance itself. into sets up too high there is no alternative but certainly don't help the economy at that bar do the alternative where would be the worse and then you get the did you meet we may be getting the same situation when they need a solution is not easy to fight. i want to talk about the refugee crisis caused data and now suggests a declining number of refugees are coming into europe for the first time in a very long time. airlie has deported more migrants stan it has led eighteen at

least since the start of twenty nineteen she's saying this is this is the new government's doing or it's a coincidence with a migrant influx slowing down anyways. no it's not. that there was a strong big. in the last part of walt the previous go indeed there was a radiant eighty per cent of the client on d.m. for us now that it has become a zero because this government is they going. to war the migrants nada's so this is if you asked me as a citizen as i think that this is because i mean is that even a bit too much because with now the discussion is about these forty seven people. forty seven people to come in with make obviously much of a difference it was a different story when every area need to there was almost two hundred thousand people coming in as if there were no borders and now this intuition is on the

control fighting now a bottle of principle about forty seven people i don't think it's very useful unfortunately most of the it they sure are different most of the policy discussion in italy in the last few days as before was once again on these forty seven people each of these problems. before we have a problem with the public it goes with every problem we growth and now everything is focused on these on the seashore even the geisha which at present is not the key issue for you that it was in the past but not to the moment all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to congress release form former interim prime minister and former head of the international monetary fund discussing growing tensions between easily in brussels stay with us.

the u.s. in order to guarantee obeyance by the population will engage and stop to tell terry doesn't and that's clearly on the march and the population is ready for it you know they were those had to say ok gotta get ready for their get ready to be controlled. the swarms of them so moving. to good who was before. much of those who heard it's a preview. soon we will. we will. move

. move. move show you the stupid you liberal media look or good. move just like most of these girls will give you films for good good. good go to shows look for loop assume you want me to show the story to the issue go. to starbucks to prove it to me to fill it with the little blue mist they'd say look it is it's. from stuff's not just institutionally it's a mash told. to strip the president and please introduce more until. we are free to choose to go. good to the good.

good. now we're back with god a local former interim prime minister and former head of the international monetary fund talking about the here opinion future welcome back to the show now mr good i like italy and ma have been at loggerheads over hosting the refugees who have been rescued at sea by n.g.o.s like sea watch italy's coalition government were divided salhani was adamantly against and in your arrival us but then the five star movement is demaio was open to allowing some eighteen. sign of

a larger rift between two parties. there are clearly differences in the political views of these two part is on this issue of immigration as well as on other issues there is one element they keep them together one glue that keeps them together and it's in a way this nation a nation at least think feeling and feeling of a position towards a brussels and the european union as the the european union that we have known in the last few years that they say they don't say necessarily that it should not be in the european union they say we don't want these guys i don't think so we don't want to you are as it is being this is a very important thing that keeps that these two parties together as other kind of glue is this feeling against that. governed

before the peter when they were in power at the same time there are clearly differences between these two parties and and the question is of that you had actually how strong we would be with the group that keeps them to gave it together still be sufficiently strong i have myself doubts about these. we don't know it depends all depends a bit on walt mr silvino what he is a mistress of being his head on his i don't know well the so-called south which abolishes humanitarian protection status for migraines and makes it easier to share migrants have their right to remain as already ninety eight protests march sara lee italian mayors who refused to obey the new legislation now with all its fallout the famed apollo is that is at least a fact of dealing with a refugee issue. which is. as we discussed earlier been dealt with in the says that the people that are carrying are very few i think

that is the creed is tightening a big dick of the show and we. to the people who are already in and there is definitely some problems in to solve danger and this these for me be created by the again i see this small city as a body to lease shoe with leave me to the consequences for the call for economic development for example and yet it is attracting a lot although a lot of what they should if you ask there are the for a service of what the population believes there was one for example this showed that the majority of the population believes that it the way you would be a mistake for example to send back of these a forty seven people to libya so that the front view on these but definitely in my view all these issues are attracting far too much attention the main problem you need thirty is not the mediation we just stopped any tools right to stop it but is

not the main issue anymore and yet these pap's even those who are already here they are declining anyway the government is saving quite a lot of money this year because the number of people that are. that you need that in these center. is declining and yet that this is attractive far too much at the eighty's so do you think salvini now will deport the tens of thousands who claimed their refugee status on humanitarian grounds before using those people also are going to be deported that that is going to be difficult i don't know i think if they stayed through and that has been made in the bus or went in that direction but i don't know all the whether they would be able to to d.d. that is not as the experience also of the united states as shown is not so easy to deport a large number of people you know the cecille odjick all data shows stat if italy

were to go down remaining in the european union last in the house of all italians would support staying in. the percentage is actually lower than in the u.k. which is actually leaving and the two major parties that form the current government are skeptics can we expect that italy will also leave inspired by united kingdom or will italy drop the idea learning from the brics it mess. you know there was a there was a survey a few months ago showing that the only forty five percent of people wanted to stay in the european union this is how this survey was reported there are parts however didn't all say that only twenty three per cent wanted to leave so there was simply a very large number of people who had no either not on so the question now or do not have a very firm view i think that if they were. and the other surprising thing

of that of the survey is that the majority of people actually wanted to continue to use the euro which is sort of in close system with the fog the majority the no one to the way can say the majority want to stay only forty four percent want that to stay it will stay there and i think much already because those who wanted to he was only twenty three percent i believe that the majority of people definitely in a thirty want to stay in the euro zone and the euro be a year the question is whether they want to do the things that will be necessary for example in terms of public accounts to a way where that whether they want to do the things that will be there we stayed in the you are the problem how where are your truth is not the water is happening to us through europe but the difficulty that the that he saw ferdie in the first ten year soft and into that you are in now we are start over catching up about where the fire away from where we should be suggesting his recent visit to war so sad

that a european spring is coming to an end and it's going to the german french axis and hero and that italy and poland are expected to be the vanguard of this change that's noble but german french ties in europe aren't based totally on german and french desires but rather on the strengths of their economies can easily in poland when we pulled our weight compared to the powerhouses of europe. you see as the. we defeat why. the ball on the in even. smaller countries can to make a major difference in terms of moving you open your sore. they can where varying bead movement that for example. and money would like to have in another direction so i see this kind of coalition as something that can stop change rather than promoting change it into the action for example disadvantaged would

like to get all this however the spam used on a big question mark how well the nationalities the movements that we do in the european into indo-european actions on history from want to read in the newspapers in the service he seems to me that is difficult to it is difficult to believe that there would be a u. a pm bottom and donated by the national race to force it but they can and they can strengthen themselves quite that all through this back to the past and in this way they can prevent the kind of change that france and germany would like to have so do you feel that the same to meant that boss about the current leaders in poland austria-hungary i mean this year a skeptic wave will it really be enough like saudi any cess to change gear up is everyone in here are dreaming about a government like italy's or pollens. no i think that is good as is the these guys

and of movements and these. are european forces or nationalistic forces i think they can stop the changer but i don't think they came fundament that he changes the nature of the european union as they do extremely well in the european there in the european elections one thing however that ortiz happening. ease a two or three speed you open so it's possible that one point for germany if you are that gun trees decide to move ahead. with. they came together eight thirty for example and they bring to it to a different level they kind of integration that's that's possible so. paulo will not prevail in change by will not be part of the change that's another scenario mr selby me and mr dimaio have been dragging french officials into

a war of words invoking cream here of colonial past do you think it might end there and weak position at home undermined by the yellow vests protests could plain to sell beanies hands. so. those vini and the mio they. mark on this week this would be their strength so it's these other docs from france i don't think. used to also because they lost one of the most recent one about the bees. and. in the end they're all of the c.f.a. francona. was not on this to buy italian people first of all and did not have the substantive baze it i think it was just i think if i start moving perhaps they don't even understand what the war sure that was it was in may

you a blunder who stayed true to what doc frowns on this he said he first saw you when . venial demaio they see france in trouble because all. she does your own death can actually help in a new way this has already have a solid vini and the raw you because a better. brussels that you would be added to the tickle me shown towards the when there was a dish of discussing a deficit for next year for d.c. area next year that she was already there because a war was happening in france and because of the fact because of the decision. because of my cause this sea shown to raise the deficit the spending to spend more and raise the debt. in two thousand and nineteen so we already see some consequences of the trouble that macaulay's having these on country so i guess that

sell meenie hailed the yellow vast anti-government movement in france a success and saying that there's was actually no that was actually that was actually more of the five star movement heard so many actually sat. that france doesn't deserve a president who is again so. he says he supports the people and he she doesn't like because she said against his nation so. the question ease with the budgetary defeat in italy does risk running into its own yellow vest problem. but. the yellowjackets they say they shown that you know way that way they empower anything so i don't think they are going to be any the best place for a need that from that point there we go the ice so i'm mad he said these high level reports and that the all of the woman is there and they told me if it were all to

for us we would have people in the streets or we would have the relation on the industry it in italy and they said my answer was where the are to call them is all we have this or that your god that's the make much of a difference right it's. all right well thank you very much for this interview and for an insight of whatever is going on in your beautiful country good luck with everything we were talking to you got a look at that elite elise former interim prime minister and former head of the international monetary fund discussing fears of yet and now they're heroes on crashes and troubles relations with the e.u. that's it for this edition of stuff you can call see you next time.

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