welcome to worlds apart while president trumps decision to pull the u.s. troops out of syria got all they had lines they simultaneous american push for and they don't like air of the military alliance went largely unnoticed can they idea of collective security at work in such air consistently in secure region as the middle east both to discuss that i'm now joined by hasan naafa political science professor at cairo university professor enough it's good to talk to you thank you

very much for your time thank you for having me it's ironic isn't it that they trumpet ministration while continuing to put pressure on nato at the same time seems and am are the by the idea of a similar alliance in the middle eastern for a what i heard three countries already egypt jordan and saudi arabia have signaled that openness to the plan do you think that interest is genuine or are they just trying to placate president trump. what i think of this is an israeli effort. the us administration has been taking to the idea and the whole objective is to try to and to get the as i and the. and the arab system so they are trying to convince of the arab and some some are whether the order the convincing iran and they're not as right because they and to me

and is a threat to the whole arab world it is expanding its influence and so on and also to the united states especially after withdrawing from the the nuclear program so it is perceived as the interest of the united states that is to of other countries especially the saudi arabia and israel is the light at about it because this is a way that. make the arabs forget about. their conflict with israel you know if i may detect here because it would with mr trump the the first question is always who is going to fit the bill and that the trumpet ministration has been pretty blunt with the europeans for not contributing and enough to be in need of budget who do you think will pay for this endeavor if it indeed comes into reality as it has happened many many times it is this hour with the.

who will pay their united arab emirates. has been saying go to the fire and these countries are sort of they don't pay for their security. supporting the and i think this about the cost of there is no problem the saudis are really ready for that but more important and my. view this idea of reintegrating as the hold out of. your brink. and saudi arabia and them of us together and this is a big change in the whole middle is to strategy sure and the saudis are the only ones who have money to spend in the region because. this point of time is a recipient of military aid so is jordan but do you think the saudis can be

trusted to be bad because if they are they want spain for that can you really build a proper balance alliance as opposed to just having a paymaster with a few client states and says no to the question of the cost of an open issue and it will be paid by saudi arabia as a matter of fact and it is a source of draining. because to. and so on so if you are talking about the cost of a military operation we have to see what kind of military operation what will be done on the ground if there will be and attack against the you know an aura and says just alliance defense of our allies if you want i can my understanding it will not be thrown at defensive alliance it is not a sort of a collective security because none of this come from his really threatened by by iran it is what is needed now is to. my own analysis that is.

in iran so could think a lot of pressure economic pressure military pressure and the threat may be to to. make some at them to change iran from within so i think it will think some time and all of this will cost a lot of money but in the same time the idea of. integrating as it is on. what is going on and i mean there is four of them all but profess enough they all the efforts to contain the reigning influence in the region have so far failed he's forming a military alliance is really going to make that much of a difference i don't think it will make any difference unless you are really to attack iran and to find the way is how to to make.

this what will be i thought that a fair lot of it were this was not to stop. expanding influence and. lebanon on. iraq and so on so this strategy has failed but now trump wants to send some message both to the american people and also through some recipients in the middle east that. our the american administration has already to. to a new face the sense that for the united states on the fourth of the. country is this is idea and so that's always the ajdabiya or is the announcing that they are there to pay the cost but what cost how much time that will take this is a this is a big question and we don't know exactly what this new alliance will do in the

middle east if there is no plan for a military action i think this will be i thought that a fair lot and i'm not quite sure that this idea of attacking iran militarily would work because they. have the means of to tell you sorry for interrupting you here but i wanted to pursue that question about the saudi contribution you mentioned that they're likely to bankroll the creation of that alliance but i suspect that they would also want to put some influence on that alliance and. from what we've seen so far that major military operation suffice the war in yemen which has been executed not only in very brutal terms but from a military point of view very very inefficiently don't you think that the americans also have to be mindful about giving the saudis so much power and influence if indeed data lines this form as a matter of fact this will not give the sound with this and for it was so whatsoever the united states would lead and i think of the most of my in the whole

of this operation will be israel and. it is done through strategy. led by as rial and the united states. administration that this is also united states and to understand the not only as i saw them in beneficiaries will be there is an eye on one hand the united states on. but what they will do with this is this is a show unless there is a plan for a military action against iran that's not the change anything they have a lot of cuts and they didn't play all the. now requests going on and lebanon for for example the saudi arabia has been trying very hard to to change the political situation and lebanon they face the new government which

was four months few days ago has not produce oil with the tone. has a. very strong position within lebanon the iranians get more influence and i don't think that the new. to the art of nato will it change anything and this and this mechanism i know that the region recently suggested that egypt should try and use this opportunity to leverage to try. but ministration to. settle or at least advance on the palestinian issue do you think this is something that still motivates both the arab leaders and their arab public is there still an interest in the palestinian cause when the people are interested and of course their course and as violent on the program is that. almost. all of the arab states have the. problems if.

they are a bit including transmission he would there be and moderates went to too far. and with. then this would be. that the perceived value to. public opinion and i think if they were even lose some of their religion just messy it is they lost or didn't look quite tough and that can go for a short year but example the. ability to to move in the middle east to have influence is very tight now as long as muhammad bin some man. is leading with the unless there is a change of leadership and sites i would be i don't think that. with the influence

we're going toward now as you know i count from russia and russia is very very allergic to anything that has to do with nato or any sort of collective security with the united states at the helm given that most go is playing an increasingly more active role in the region do you think it should be concerned about this idea of an nato like structure in that part of the world of course it should be concerned but. it is and interests of. for russia. to play it down i mean i voted all die for. leading through the the through to form this kind of alliance because of this this will impact the russian policy especially in syria and you know that israel is pushing out of the to get to the iranians out of syria so and this alliance is

formally. done i think of this will have some down and they will try to. compromise to the russian policy and in syria and so be that israel the israeli military will have a free hand those that i even more frequently and most strongly against the the iranian target and this will and bought us matter much of the the russian objectives in syria so it is in the interest of the. of russia. to. die or what's right to abort all of the the efforts and this night action professor nephi we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. you

know world big partisan mock ups and conspiracies it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bath shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. this is a sticker from a water bottle found in the stomach of

a fish the brand is part of the coca-cola company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that let's tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litterbugs are throwing this away industry should be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. that's. funding me. on i knew that that is the end. but for now the mountains of waste only grow higher . welcome back to worlds apart because i'm not

a political science professor at cairo university professor enough we are recording this interview a few weeks after age of to mark the eighth anniversary of the two thousand and eleven revolution which put an end to thirty years of hosni mubarak's role apart from that what would you count as the chairman's or perhaps the failures of egypt since that well i think there is a. general feeling of disappointment a sense of the revolution as a matter of fact. gyptian people. again this to mubarak to have another political system that you know you have a social justice. and a specter of right. human dignity and so on but if you look to what is going on in egypt right now most of the people have the feeling that. it was even better during. mubarak and it doesn't mean that they want to the mubarak regime to come

back but they don't feel any i mean you ration of the situation thousands of people are arrested and in prison and so. there is a feeling of disappointment. with the idea that you jim want to reform or to change. let me ask you specifically about that because a few years ago when president was opposed to same question as i just ask you about the main achievements in egypt since the revolution he's sad that the introduction of presidential term limits was the main achievement here's exactly what he had to say let's listen. tell you something that in years gone by the idea that the ruler could be changed at all the possibility of him losing an election was unimaginable and. now it is one or two in office marksman.

now president alfie gave that interview in two thousand and fifteen do you think there is still no third option though i think he has been a change in his ideas about this all the time first of all he said they were listed just a photo one mandate and then. he has been saying there can the situations are not written with good intentions and i think everybody has been guessing that finally he will be trying very hard to get the constitution and mended specially to change. them and i think the proposal is to make. two terms for six years but the. sense he he might open the door for himself to. be

a candidate for the two thousand and twenty two election so after this is really a done it means that. president sisi will stay in power not only for eighty years but for it plus twelve means that he will be staying in power for twenty years and i don't think that the egyptian people will welcome this at all that's why in my own sense this is the opening of a political battle. there is no doubt that the city will try to impose the kind of reform that t. he thinks is. poor and to his own interest and this is because the parliament his own and i am afraid that there will be at some point there would be

a political explosion but this couldn't happen but it is we don't have to exclude that. possibility in my own some air lots of governments with pretty consolidated parliament russia being one of them turkey another and they tried a different modelled when they essentially swapped prime minister and president and then swapped them back there are ways of keeping the government in power without that's a sara lee changing the constitution why do you think the gyptian authority is. seem to be moving towards. breaking with the promises that they gave only two three years ago when there seems to be an easier way of pulling what they want to do which is to stay in power now but. after the two thousand and eleven revolution. the presidential.

terms so. also there is. two hundred twenty six. amendments of this particular mandate. unless it is photo morganti is over liberties and so on so what the idea of amending this particular. article is totally forbidden and sunday i think there will be construction that. crisis but. anyway we at the beginning of the second demand saw his. still have three years on the hope of doing don't know who is insisting to do it right now and to do more to it to see whether the political situation will be good if they are not so this is a sort of obscure. and we don't know exactly what's. going to go

and his and his mind i. it is said and one of my. tweets that i cannot imagine presidency see as a formal president so he will be trying to stay in power for life this is my i hope i am right this is what i do believe you said that we cannot understand what is in the president's have had and yet in many of his interviews he does make a point that it's difficult perhaps even impossible to leave off to western democratic stand there it's while dealing with a host of issues that he has to deal with first and foremost security and terrorism . are you willing to concede that point that he is facing an extremely difficult situation and desperate times call for desperate measures but everybody is against

that there isn't the question is whether his policy is effective to try to eliminate terrorism i think. it is getting worse and worse as a matter of fact you don't have to rely only on security majorities but you have to . deal with the question of terrorism and by all of the means economic social cultural and so on and if you don't have a country that it is that people are totally behind you they are very they. are supporting. the policy of the government so. you will be perceived as trying to to use orthotics exploit. as i mean to stay in power for for life and this is a kind of and position that people. more and more people have about

about the policy to fight the. this is not an effective policy i thought on this some security in the country if you compare it to this a six or seven years ago about this is. the output of our kind of fear that most of the population fears the. security apparatus said that if he handed the police and egypt and the north. there is no consensus about his policy neither on economic issues nor on security issues and even the policy to to fight terror is we don't have the impression that it's as if you work because we don't see it eliminate tell you you know i just came back from a trip to egypt a few days ago and i found it far far more restrictive than it was during the

mubarak era or during the morsy here but i've also heard many people say that this tightening of screws is really happening across the region from turkey to jordan in many other countries is really egypt really such an exception here or is it perhaps part of a broader trend but the situation in egypt is the front you know that you cannot compare it to some other countries where you know if you have a civil war you know that we don't have several war with iran to have the kind of. political struggle as it is in libya for example or and yemen or in and syria or even in iraq there has been always a stronger. central government in egypt but we have never

seen this kind of a pice of. myself. because. from time to time i simply write because the rich is not. with you and supporting the promotion of the government. i get i would. throw a broad and there when i come back from from my. session again and so on i don't see it very useful at all and i don't i see it as a and impressive way of trying to turn. a position and i don't i don't see that this kind of course he will get in the work on. the line and the egyptian president is pressed on those issues that you mention he also makes the point that if egypt were to disintegrate europe and the west would feel that

first in the form of many many millions of refugees and that may seem like veiled threat but isn't that also true that regardless of how and satisfactory the situation may be at the moment it could still be much much worse. you know. very old the nation and it has been it existed forty seven thousand years and there has been pathing throw a much more difficult and. disintegrated so i think that either they're trying to so. make the the people fear disintegration also will not will not work i perceive it as a way also so justify his willingness to to stay in power as much as he can look for example how he is handling the economy for example

borrowing a lot of money and building a new capital in egypt that this is not the proper time to go through this kind of of. economic schemes that we had to make the the the fact there is work and to have forgotten for night is the economy this is not the way that will galvanize they're going to be i thought so if you look through the whole picture to see the security policy through see if they can on the policy to see the social policy you will see that you're going to have really something new york rely on and you that can give you some hope in the future well professor now for we have to leave it there it's been great talking to you thank you very much for your time thank you very much i encourage our viewers to keep

this conversation going on our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. you know if i said suddenly that oh and we recognize nancy pelosi has the president united states they're not going to talk about donald trump the world of the you know outrage but of course the u.s. has a stereo exceptionalism and that no law applies to them and so they can do whatever they want but by essential banks buying gold as they are they are now coming to the

conclusion that america has lost its mind and then when they run out of gold to buy i guarantee you they're going to start fishing around it but what market. leader just almost. any. action or anything else. and there's a number you know not. an issue all of them ok if true. was not a master plan a. battle they only. get larger and i don't know that to be. the one that had. given people. who give the nod nod to.

what the how do not. assume. one you know not know jane need the whole corn to go forward. why demand now what are we not so and i think just. this morning russia of the united states ramp up their ballistic missile testing following suspension of a cold war era arms control treaty that is going. to a serious devastating eight year long conflict begins drawing to a close that you are.