welcome to well to part two decades after hugo chavez won his first election his boldly very and revolution is screeching to a d.c. halt its runaway inflation and unemployment higher than ever millions are believed to have left in israel and while the world powers are now locked over what their president may do or should go to the bigger question is where should the country move from here to discuss that i'm now joined by rafael ramirez close ally of president chavez and a harsh critic of both president nicolas maduro and the opposition leader. mr ramirez it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you think is my push in many western media you're referred to as are there former oil czar or hugo chavez says right have man i wonder how do you personally see yourself now

well. here in europe but i cannot disclose for because. i was with. the most important post in. our. now i know that you had a major falling out with president maduro in two thousand and seventeen you accused him of incompetence and there supreme power he accused you of corruption but if we try to put those personal grievances to decide what do you make all what's happening in and around venezuela right now. our country faces of very deep. crisis. in the political

side economic concise and also in the source or size in the political side we have now to surf presidents. mr way though what of. our constitution we have a problem in the political side for legitimacy of these two guys in the economical size that we are confronting he'll push inflation more than one point seven million percent. of the supply of medicines the food they were lewisham all saw the government have the straw. poll which is the most important in the country in the source inside. the our people are suffering because of where our games. after the prison where no facing the poverty of our people didn't miss any of our people. work we're suffering the excellence of our young

people. more than four million of people have been left the country if the first time in our history well they put the position often is our is indeed very troubling and i know that you put most of the blame on president maduro and he's lack of competence but for most foreign there is there isn't much difference between let's say the child his administration and the mature administration they're really seen as two sides of the same coin why is it different from you why why do you put so much blame on my door and seemingly exonerate president chavez entirely i believe that motherhood is not only incompetent. i believe that this government will be the worse for gore and of been a swelling were his story but mainly he's a traitor of the charges. and first of all because. being attacked. in

games our constitution all saw. the. mother who has been destroyed. it is one of the the most powerful company in the work or treat her sponsor of to. the main issue for our economy has been deployed all of our social programs that we call. missions in my country and then. thing. party it's not it's not. it's completely different but mr ramirez i think what you are not mentioning is a very sharp change in economic environment between the two administrations president chavez had the benefit of high oil prices while present my dearest friend

quite sided with a very sharp decline in the higher carbon markets as critical and skeptical as you are of mature is competent is it fair to blame this crisis a very very deep crisis on him in charley rather than on the whole bully very an economic system i don't believe the pretty. different situation in the. during the old the period remember that when we arrive at the government with the president charice the oil price the. ten dollars per barrel then we recorded the unity inside and then we recorded the press of oil but the most important is that we're able to recover the control of the oil industry. also the money. for the industry a good management of the oil industry then would be able to. get all the revenues

from the two in favor of the old economy we the prison terms we will spend there we enjoy more done ten years of corn tree growing in the economic also in the sources now you said in one recent interview that if charis were still alive and if he saw the state of the country today he would have probably mounted a coup d'etat against madieu or what makes you believe that sure sure because no the canonical and source are situation. even war. when the president has made. in ninety ninety two no it's worse the situation. really believe the charges will be very concerned about the situation because a muddle has to be conducting a work or two for the suster in the socio economic point of view but also he says

it's been affecting the poor people who has been hitting the the heat the poor people especially our people no is trying to flying a little box with some fort worth people is trying to escape the country. open the. door to the private companies international companies. to do the same reasons why i chose conduct. in nine hundred ninety two now you clearly have strong connections within did in israel and military would you be willing to be part of such air could you tie against president durand do you think in general any sort of core orchestrated by military or somebody else would be in the interest of your country what will it mean let me tell you that i am very clear in my. position against any foreign

intervention in my country gains of the sanctions because. we're we have to reject that but sure would mother with them have any chance to ricordi the country both and neither with what though because also with. the law behind why the is this dream when sector in the country also with some support from the us then we believe we need to farms find some some way so into min away sun balance way to avoid the violence. intervention that that the right sector to be in the position to restore the constitution is a what i understood your your position perfectly but let me rephrase my question again have you been in any contact with the venezuelan military recently to

discuss possible ways of solving venezuelan crisis yes permanently permanently and have how do you discuss your own the role in that in the resolution of that crisis a great to hear my country has been warning from the four years ago how the situation is. a warning. about the economical situation i prepared release more than. eighteen documents warning about the situation but nobody wants to hear me i were running at the time how to protect our own oil company which is the main factor in the economy then are you still in contact with my people are you still writing i just still making interviews because i believe that we have the opportunity to her solve this problem with the violence you said in a recent interview that you would be even open to run for. doesn't she in your

country it seems that you're positioning yourself as a third i'll turn it to between the current president and the leader of the opposition. because. we need to study the constitution to open the. game i mean we have to ask people over people what do you want to do in the future for. the two to show for the people and the. principles but also openly for. the new situation i'm sure you would agree that this kind of choice should be left up to the venezuelan people but you know that the international politics is always more complicated than that i know that you have good ties among when is an international partners first of all russia and china but do you think that americans do you think the europeans are likely to see your candidature as a consensus one. of my people when. we have to

explain for everybody all the contras the interests of my country in my country that we have to preserve the we have to preserve the functioning of the country we have to. low interest. is very. we need to be bucking by army now socialism is extremely difficult system to pull off we the russians know that better than anyone else. regardless of who is in charge whether it is you mr goh i don't know mr madeira do you think been is all i can continue relying on a planned economy going forward with. the plan for. the country in two thousand and twelve was. it we call the plan for their homeland

it is a star is the main issues daughter kore the stability of our core tree i believe that we need to base on this plan in goading to show for our people that will simulate the gate again the normality in the court i believe that i believe we need to do or studies all or were programmes in goading to get a copy of the situation mr america may have to take a short break right now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. on. what

politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to express. some want to. actually like. to see what. people are. interested in the laws. should.

welcome back to pulls apart because rafael premier as i close ally of president chavez and now a presidential hopeful in venezuela. mr ramirez just before the break we started talking about possible ways of recovering the venezuelan economy and you know just a few days ago president when doura gave an exclusive interview charting which he was asked the same question and he's answer was rather prefer axing because he talked about markets majerus and fix prices in one breath something that would be an absolute oxymoron to most economists in purely economic terms what emergency steps should we sell it take right now to move out of this predicament yes the most important priority in the economic sense will. we know how to do because the oil is there we have.

two hundred. industry look at the. industry then at the time. will come out our company and then the produce. to twenty tritos some better birthday in three months after the control of the industry would gain the production to trim. all. the first step will be to record industry because they ninety percent of our income came from the oil revenue when they leave the company into those who for theme begin to fourteen the pollution was three million. then no one. knows the. of the oil industry including our burner from from china

from. anybody no. they don't have any knowledge about well you around that company for more than a day kate you certainly have the experience but how exactly you would recover the oil industry given the pressure that is put on the news alibied the united states and assuming we are i.c.m. that the western partners the european partners would also fall over the sanctions yeah but that sanctions. snow's is known this is. affecting in that the strong way a work or tree is somebody with the knowledge man that will be able to manage the industry will be able to defeat that sanctions it's not the first time in two thousand they in the us in both sensually and spirits are they will look at any technological assistant any of us financial assistance but at the tile we are ready

to respond we have been ready to respond the problem is that current direction they don't. they don't be ready to do nothing nothing then there is one problem but it's not the only one of only step two do they circle or step in when we need to take some action to restore is some kind of monetary policy we need to liberate the rate of change and we need to to open the to receive more investment in more. dollars and differing currency the same thurso step is that we need to. kind of star is the internet produce producing now nobody producing nothing inside the courtroom now in this industrial sector no for producing food nobody had them that happen because also

in the economical sic to do you need some good and more for some confidence in the leadership of the country i know that you've also been very vocal about the need to overcome the so-called oil or rant ism or the dutch disease and arguably the best time to do that was during the boom years when you were presiding over the industry what prevented the then is alan leadership at that time from pursuing that. not too easy we spend the whole three years with some more. both for the national companies during all. three twenty then it's not easy the prison term is suspended a lot of time first of all to sterilise a new political secondly to create a new legal framework then to to solve the problem in the hewish saucer patrol and we facing

a time and then just then the oil industry when prison terms proposed a plan for the home. homeland in my contrary that's including hope to develop the. economical sectors. not all sectors in the core to our work we need to move but no you have to work. you have to recovery the company because you will need to do whatever you want to do you need to record the oil sector now there americans are very open about dire intention to put their hands on the been a sale an oil they never had it before but i think now they are more open about that than ever but what's interesting is that the trumpet ministry should in addition to oil has introduced another factor and they are now framing venezuela as a threat to american national security i'm sure you you saw our secretary of state mike compare. alleging that even as elam government has ties with iran and

hizbollah what do you make of that you know that there will declare that they will take the control of oil up in the lead it's not a secret plan for devery some i believe we have to defend our constitution because in our constitution the current constitution. has claimed the property of the also the property for our national oil company in fact. the opposition. starting with the pre with decision of. the. women to fly we need to. also. program in going to maintain the control of the oil industry now i ask you a lot of questions about the present madura let me also fall off with a few questions about the self appointed and interim president who i'm go i don't

know the speed with which the americans the trumpet ministration through their support behind him do you think it and up how ping or hurting his standing in the eyes of the venezuelan people. is just a face. behind this threat i mean. when party. people too used to be very of law against the press and then there you seen tool. to try to capitalize the suster of muddle in go than to pose for the first time in our history saw mr namely a. government in the courtroom that's a dungaree for the country because nobody will be able to impose a new mall. over the border of the us the chinese more existing

us a story a blog we are a huge quantity of the core tree then we need to find something of agreement to run the country in the future but that the reason i'm asking is this question is because one russian observer called what's happening in india in venezuela a fight between economic logic and national pride as much as the people may be frustrated with them adore is economic policies don't you think the american endorsement of quite all makes it far more difficult for the people to reject my door because that would be seen as surrendering to the americans of course yes i believe that the my your duty of the people especially when military people they don't will any mission. there any invasion the inheritance in our issues. we have on the very strong history of. office so when and if he remembered where the sun from the. then that is in the

beam of the conscience of our people we are not going to a low and mean if mother or a surplus suster it is a disaster we're going to resolve by our with our people know with any intervention . now from what i understand for you personally the choice between my door and go i don't know is really a choice or for worse evil who do you think is more damaging for the country in the long run no everything is war. so we need to do we need to to find another way for that reason i believe that the my your duty of the people. to have some opinion to bloat we're still participate we need to restore. democracy in the country in go than do. they way and the proposal of christian churches who are trying to do is call for

does for my role their front. door asking for the society in god in that we are not going we need to stop to go in for any confrontation in the future it's not good for the going to look at the sorry meaning the security concerns with. the power a lot of how the international police is conducting i don't. like to my country like syria to my country like iraq to my counter in that case if they try to intervene and for our country and to produce. their will spread to colombia spread to work where though because we're together in the same territory at the same court at the same people will be a disaster for everybody now you mentioned the international meddling and i also

covered a lot of regime change operations and i think one thing that is different this time around is the lack of unity among the europeans you know that italy just if you days ago disrupted the year european consensus on calling for early elections and i know that. i personally are in favor of file of an early elections and yet you also strongly oppose foreign interference into the affairs of your country are you more disappointed or excited about the talent position right now no i support the issue of interleaved mexico or. they're conducting a meeting just for the moment they we they'll. really good in danger in gordon. there's something of the i'll look. away and go then to find some agreement when we need to do that but us in the meat work before us so free for the scheme in the poor mother and go them to create some tangle by

a tree out. in gold and do we solve the source or problem of my people in this. election we are now ready to go for election now we have four meaning of when this will outside the country we have one that he'll show you money tyrion prices the huge growth who would need to want to release when you know when the half year to start some condition to go for the election mr ramirez we have to leave it there but i really appreciate your joining us today fink you very much thank you thank you thank you so much i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going on our social media pages and hope the series get on the same place same time here on worlds apart.

join me every thursday on the alec simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. stand had. no problem with. that on our live show but there are rather you know i thought before more than any . i'm going to let them but i don't question them you can keep an eye on what i have

flu china for truffle not it. then i was going on the show little. get this whole full plate choice. and pay off the time in syria has said. from my law farther than half of the whole fuck around mr hague that for jim and then i hope that our fairly mature course. this is a stick up from the water bottle found in the stomach of the fish the brand is spawns of the coca-cola company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day

the idea was that let's tell consumers they're in the bad was there the litter bugs are trying this way industry shouldn't be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. that's. essential funding. on the. up on our mountains of ways only grow higher. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy thing for him to let it be an arms race. spearing dramatic development the only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very. time to sit down and talk.

i. brought all things mark a thirteen year old best demonstrations on the streets of paris. venezuela self-proclaimed interim leader says he is not ruling out requesting a u.s.

military intervention against president maduro. but i.