bizarrely c.n.n. one of the t.v. networks today being for the overthrow of the leader of another oil rich country venezuela understands the story the cia has released documents that show its role in the nineteen fifty three that is the coup that toppled iran's democratically elected prime minister mohammad mosaddegh had moved to nationalize oil production and iran yes major nations tend to destabilize countries that nationalized or bring back industries and civic society under democratic control but the winston churchill was successful in installing a brutal dictator along with death squads in iran and they do nations world would be defeated by the iranian revolution of nine hundred seventy nine not that the u.s. and u.k. didn't stop trying margaret thatcher's pal ronald reagan began to supply us saddam hussein with weapons to attack iran with saddam's massacres against his own people who were terminal and for two hundred thousand people. used an objective fact the reagan administration blocked efforts in congress even to protest against and

furthermore the support for saddam increased and continued in fact saddam was given an extraordinary privilege. remarkable he was allowed he got away with attacking a u.s. naval vessel and killing thirty seven soldiers if the us didn't even seem to mind having its own soldiers killed by the leader which future pentagon boss donald rumsfeld delivered w m d to iraq but iran wasn't defeated in the iran iraq war by the time rumsfeld was helping tony blair destroy iraq iran is role in the region was significantly strengthened with allies in the international nonaligned movement the most recently sent emergency supplies to save the people of one of the richest pick up in nations on earth as it was blockaded by british backed saudi arabia today though it is backed by the international community iran is again normally collision course with the usa on the dollar trump had ministration has acted

decisively to confront the world's leading state sponsor of terror the radical regime in iran it is a radical regime well joining me now via skype from alter is homages salvia professor of political science at the university of tehran and thanks so much for coming on i know you were in sabbatical usually in tehran take us back forty years why did students and workers really think they could overthrow a u.s. u.k. back dictator who had run that country for decades and since the coup. yes so our mohammad reza pahlavi commonly known as the uranian shar was a dictator but also at the same time he was a tool of imperialism or at these he was seen as a tool for imperialism especially american imperialism in the region the united states was giving iran a lot of advanced weaponry in iran was essentially the police of the middle east

for on behalf of the united states and this angered a lot of people especially students. the middle class as well as even even even the academic of the to iran who were angry that iran was very close to israel which was not in sync with iran's character in the ideology of the people. but also iran was used as a tool to suppress both domestic protests as well as in the region yes on the suppression give give us a kind of idea of the scale of the killing and torture by the british and american backed death squads. ok so so when the second charge mohammad was a ballot he came into power after the second world war initially he wasn't as repressive as as he became during the sixty's and seventy's but he especially

became group oppressive after the one nine hundred fifty three coup by the americans and the british. members of other he was only thirty something at the time and very inexperienced and the americans essentially using the cia and the british using the m i six they stage a coup d'etat in iran in one thousand nine hundred eighty three then over it through the democratically elected my met mossad death before the coup the iranian oil sector was completely controlled by the british and after the coup because of the role of the americans essentially you any an oil was divided in three parts forty percent for the british forty percent for the americans and twenty percent for other countries in one nine hundred fifty seven the united states what the help of the israeli mossad helped form the secret police of the shar known as the sun harp and this of ark was it was very brutal in its tactics i mean it tortured

people students women and these were actually armed documented by many international organizations nevertheless the united states showed a blind eye to all of this they only acknowledged it and criticized it years later so i thought kami the earlier and calibers you know about the me too were going on in north america i thought only talking about the revolution forty years ago said women were at the forefront of the revolutionary movement quite apart from the cross class nature of it why were women at the heart of this revolution the group that was perhaps the most oppressed for the women i'm it's interesting to note that that the true. the rate among adult women in iran in one nine hundred seventy nine was only about twenty two percent saw only less than one fourth of the female population in iran even knew how to read so you can imagine what the situation of

women was like and comparatively speaking in the past forty years under the trees the rate of woman has gone up from twenty two percent to about eighty two percent arms all of the women in the revolution they were very angry with the shah with his imperialist policies and with the place of women in domestic society of course the situation of women even today is not ideal but i think it's perhaps on the right path you are probably observing from there. to in venezuela or iran as close to cuba or through things the revolution what advice do you think people in iran at the top of their revolution today would be talking saying to venezuela or about being able to cope with an embargo like the suggesting the u.s. is suggesting the americans especially the liberals constantly claim that they are in support of democracy and the right to self-determination abroad nevertheless we have seen this continuation of u.s.

foreign policy all over the world whether in south america or in the middle east where they completely our music all their means and power to undermine democratically elected leaders now what is interesting is that if we look at the experience of the past two decades or average the americans have gone for regime changes what they call it the results have been completely and utterly destructive in terrible because of course here in britain or we hear about. the case of someone who worked the b.b.c. media reaction unit of the same and they did b.b.c. around the world news in. in jail in iran we don't really hear about this revolution and. imperial power was over iran before the revolution one of the things that we should consider when talking about such issues is that there is

a lot of espionage and a lot of pressure on iran right now and especially in the past decade one of the classified documents that was revealed by julian assigned i mean this can be actually searched is a map that shows the amount of espionage the united states carries out in different countries around the world and if you look at that classified map iran and pakistan have the highest amount of u.s. intelligence gathering the united states and the united kingdom have this history in iran especially the m i six in the cia of deceiving people of intervening of creating khuda taz of paying people in this is very much documented. in academic circles well there obviously been a huge advances in civilisation indicators that maternal mortality and whatever since the revolution but inequality has been rising in recent years do you think ironically as some people are saying

a door trumps renewal of saying actions will bring iran again closer together whereas under obama and the relaxation of some things and there was a certain increasing of inequality that some people made more money than than the masses. i'm so so so the reigning revolution has been successful in some aspects for example literacy rate has gone up from about thirty two percent in one nine hundred seventy nine to or ninety percent today the number of students that you know versus it is has gone up by more than twenty five times which is a staggering number never that's one of the issues that iran has faced a lot of challenges and has perhaps been not very successful is inequality we have to consider the fact that sanctions alten you heard the iranian nation the most not the reigning state in that suffering the suffering of the lower classes is the most

significant so this whole issue of the washington saying that you know we support the iranian people but we oppose this state is very hypocritical because i mean the sanctions are hurting the average iranian. also the second issue is that unfortunately iran's economy is very much dependent on oil it was this was the case before the revolution unfortunately it has been the case in the past four decades. and the result of that is that when oil prices are high in also when iran has access to the market then iran's economy is doing well because they are selling a lot of oil but when the price of oil goes down or where and they are there are sanctions like the current circumstances then the revenue of the government declined significantly but just very briefly what do we the make of the iranian threat now to respond to any donald trump bio and the provocation with shutting down the entire persian gulf let alone destroying the whole of israel. so the

whole campaign of putting pressure on iran in print lead there is a lot of pressure to could only go on to some extent in the sense that iran has been showing a lot of restraint in the past nine months even though the trumpet ministration decided to withdraw from the dream and iran has not withdrawn from the agreement and perhaps this is something that these rabies want now if this trend continues and we see mounting pressure on iran especially regarding the sale of oil especially since oil is the lifeline of iran's economy not allowing your own to export it would essentially chalky ron's economy then it would be not viable for iran to continue in the deal and of course we are going to see responses by iran as well what their political economical or even military is especially if there is a provocation on the side of the americans and the israelis if this happens however

this is going to be terrible for the region and i think it's going to be bad both for iran and the united states perhaps the only party that is going to benefit from this is these are a these as a people thank you very much after the break when the bankers freeze on finances others face famine of the of the developing banks we'll ask a former un economic commissioner all of them all coming about to have going on the ground. because of the storm brewing of them so much. good you who are quarter before. most of those who heard the preview are almost never seen him with north

korea before north. bush i didn't look beautiful the militants can look good. muslim also these girls will give you good girls. don't go to shows from the blue assume you belong to sure it's good to go. to starts to hold off some to get to meet until it was in the middle of the mist they'd say look it is it's. just that's not a chance just you know it's a mash tun truck stop the president and please control this project until. we have petitions to go to school to snap them up when you look at us the girls are

with you for your supporters to whom she station shouldn't for you should cut off from the one whose job is the. welcome back of a tourism a brac set defeat on thursday paves the way for a korban government what will be his economic strategy for britain central apparently will be a u.k. state bank advising corbin's shadow chancellor john mcdonald is a former un an e.u. official who worked with the i.n.d. government in chile before it was overthrown a pioneer of economic research whose latest book is co edited with nobel laureate joe stiglitz professor stephanie griffin jones financial markets program director at columbia university joins me now after the launch of an initiative with

mcdonnell in the past few days stephanie welcome to going. the ground i understand you've been hanging out with the shadow chancellor of the exchequer what does he think of your research and work on the social development banks first of all i'm delighted to be here. john mcdonald has been very interested in the research of this book because he's thinking of creating an ambitious national investment bank and he wants to learn from the international experience the big advantage actually to be a late comer because the british can learn from the good and bad lessons mainly the good lessons from the international experience countries like germany the most successful country in europe has got this massive national development bank w france china south korea canada most developed countries have there are many middle income countries have them and the u.k.

is very much an outlier it's a sort of lone. among for example the g seven european countries that is really the only one that doesn't have a proper national development bank and so i think labor's proposal is is is straight in the mainstream in that sense is is is perfectly correct because if you have an ambitious program of structural transformation to green the economy to make it more inclusive to to develop the poor areas of this country you need instruments to do that and the national investment bank would be a very powerful instrument to do that you know of course that the real chance of exactly filled when the learn to resume would say to you what are you talking about we already have a world we've got the british business very started by vince cable used to be on this show a lot. of your ideas new is drama dawdles it's very small or if you have a list of the national development banks worldwide it's not even mention it's painted i think is than some good things and it would be

a very small base but this is much more ambitious i mean in the long term they were thinking of about twenty five billion of paid in tapetum. and the rest of the money will be raised on the markets but this is within ten years we would have a bank of twenty five billion and i think in the medium term it should be forty billion pounds to be equivalent to care doubling in the space successful german development bank. the british business bank rate those around two hundred million million so. the p.r. operation oh i think they do some good things there but you slow but you know it's nothing compared to the level of investment and the problem is that the u.k. has the lowest investment amongst you seven or among o.e.c.d. countries and how it has had so for a long time and it's got worse with austerity and the tory government when you say it's an outlier why do you think britain is about you don't think it's because there's a huge amount of opposition to this idea from some interests in the city of london

i think on a sort of intellectual level the right always used to talk about efficient private financial markets it sounds a bit of a joke after the global financial crisis so that argument is quite discredited but i think you're completely right that the powerful interests of the city have been traditionally against it but yet the way we see it and we discussed this exactly this launch is that it was rather jolly the shadow chancellor and we both agree that it's very much a complement with the private financial sector and of course with the private non-finite sector because although the capital is public if you take a bank like the cave w. european investment bank they actually loans are funded on the private capital markets. and they lend mainly to private companies so it's a way of collaboration between the private and the public sector which is creative where you trying to add to lies the best in both worlds as you said clearly the mainstream but if i'm dreaming champagne in

a bar in the city of london already i'm a bit angry that i mean r.b.s. is still partly owned by the british taxpayer right now obviously labor and conservative government have been trying to privatise the post office which is kind of a bank i mean what's to stop a very successful bank that your foreseeing with that capitalization from taking over one of the private banks that failed but that may fail in the future where i think that it's not just necessarily a good idea to use existing failed banks i think it's better to build a new been situation with each of us it should be for another financial engineers inventing silly derivatives that are dangerous for the economy but real engineers scientists people who know about risk management about and to the newer ship who will work together with the private sector and with the financial markets to develop the new projects of the future who will take risks but not through

financial risks but technical race we want a u.k. economy that is on the forefront of innovation both for the people of this country but you also know that i know it sounds odd to be talking about corruption given that interest libel rates were so obviously fraudulently done in this city there is another fear that people your point to any national bank of the kind you envisage could be hanging out with vested interests that are very powerful which leads to corruption i think that's why they are a specialist in this subject given your latin america experience of your i think that's a very important point would win favor is good development banks which are well governed which are independent of government they serve government paul. b.c. but they don't serve narrow public government interests of particular persons they work very closely with the private sector but again they're not captured by the private sector which is as corrupt if not more than governments and therefore you

need to have this clever balancing whereby a development bank is arm's length from the government but fulfills broad government policy but the government will not tell it led to this individual that would be done on on a strict risk assessment and on a technical assess for example the european investment bank has a shadow carbon price so if a project is commercially attractive but is going to damage the environment very much it will not fund it. yeah environment as well knows as at the heart of it but then of previous labor leader and prime minister gordon brown wanted to create something independent the bank of england i don't know what your views of the former goldman sachs banker about god he was predicting problems maybe ahead because goodrick the bank of england is supposed to be independent and that's come under some controversy over its independence or whether it sees the world in the way that you want a national development back i'm not a big fan of

a central bank in paris i think it's been a bit overrated especially if it's combined with only having an inflation target i think the u.k. should have much more interest on growth and employment as the us fed us so but i think when you come when you analyze this development of course they should work well of course they should be transparent and accountable they should have a we are proposing and labor's proposing as well the first amp or there should be trade union representatives consumer of presenters on the board as well as government representative and they see me so it and there is a process that is transparent but you know i find it very annoying when when the conservative people criticize these banks as potentially corrupt when there is so much corruption and lack of transparency in private finance i mean if you've ever gone on the web page of a hedge fund it has zero information that the u.s. is also an outlier arguably but that's a constitutional reason maybe way doesn't it maybe it's again

a bit ideological the us doesn't have in its tradition a public investment back of course housing has been heavily dominated by government institutions and the number of states that have development banks and the left wing democrats are working also on and on and a national investment bank it would have a very bizarre fight between the the say the bank of england and this national development it would be five it would be working together i mean labor. has developed a framework where they would collaborate and indeed they want to change the the mandate of the bank of england so that focuses not just inflation but on things like productivity or growth work early we're good at say already concentrated but his mandate is mainly inflation mainly inflation. but he now it would have a much more real economy monday and it would try and direct also the credit from private banks a bit more towards the real economy because one of the speakers in the launch of

this book yes. made the point that only ten percent ten percent of total bank lending in the u.k. today goes to corporate lending most of it goes to basically speculative activities within the financial sector or to mortgage lending so you know and that is a moment merely to rich people you know making of things you know making of things and this is the beauty of this investment i visit them and all the people you talk to interested in improving the real economy that's what they live for you know and they're experts and they work with the companies. my previous launch in paris the head of the b.p.i. france the development bank front said you know we want to make the intrapreneur as dreams come true and we want them to dream more you know it's how you stimulate entrepreneurship how you stimulate innovation how you work with the private sector but it's not for short term profit you know this is a that's the other thing that's very important about these banks is the raise long

term money and they lend long term because you need this kind of long term patient mature capital you don't need speculative. credits for three months or six months we're trying to maximise your profit and your bonuses for your traders there so it's a completely different criteria and you channeling the money from the private sector for example from pension funds which are of course very long term especially for young people like you. you know so you want to i'm sure some pension fund managers are we likely worried about this and why do they prefer to invest in speculation that goes wrong lehman brothers and that kind of hedge fund or do they preferred investing in green infrastructure. you know like like say w that's i think a very interesting thing was a cave w. catalyzed completely lending to the solar sector there was no private lynch german

in germany and then the chinese took it the chinese development bank which is a trivial amount of two trillion dollars of assets two trillion dollars of course it's a very big economy. they took the idea they helped develop the help the government developed the policy framework and then they lend massively for solar and in between germany and china they have managed to reduce dramatically the cost of solar by about seventy five percent which is making solar competitive with fossil fuel again with just five if this hasn't frightened the city of london who are happy with the status quo with the possibility of a bank like that issuing their own currencies or security instruments no really terrify the private no no on the contrary they were they for example the european investment bank they issued bonds which are in high demand all the institutional investors chasing them because they're safe they would have a rating which is the u.k. current rating the cave of it has to play

a rating and investors love it i mean the city wouldn't there's no reason why the city should be afraid i mean this is about crowding in private investment it's not about crowding out here it would give them a new row and therefore a new business it just was channel the funds towards things that are useful society because we need a financial sector the serve society not that undermines the economy we don't want something where the private sector makes a profit and and the public sector takes the risks. professor stephanie good returns thank you that's of the show will be back on wednesday with the u.n. independent expert. on u.k. attacks on venezuela see on wednesday twenty eight years to the day the british backed war planes launched laser guided bombs at the armory a air raid shelter in baghdad incinerating four hundred eight civilians men women and children.

she'll be. still dependent miles from. the independent. that stayed with. me today. it was the sort of my life who speculate hint that me or the now with jamie has a hunk on the arm. now at the five the. hell i got money for that never. seemed like him to make the point i made worthy of the marriage will have one thing close i gave up because of me.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race often spearing dramatic development only. exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical. to sit down and talk. as a financial survival of the state. of south fill out let's say i'm the troika and here . comes the fight wall street spot thank you for. destroying that's right. slavery.

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