the of our political party to warn people about islam so again this was like of the lurch and well now i know the truth by this now but in the period well i really sincerely thought that islam was a threat for the weather for our freedom in europe i know that just a few months ago another high profile member of the does freedom party your own club or and they pronounce his last name correctly converted to islam do you think gary a wilderness will ever come about i can only say. it's not up to me who is god to islam and not both of course the best thing is not to curse him and to fight him about to make do for him and maybe he will convert to islam you never know another member of the freedom party pace with a your. most in the since october last year and i hope that many more will follow i know that both in christian and islamic tradition there is an expression

something along the lines that god are. rules in mysterious ways but i wonder you there is perhaps also certain psychological predisposition that may make these people to switch camps or abruptly it was not really a not for me and therefore your we both. are educated people we are not like. people that just jump into conclusions so within twenty four hours or for both of us it was a journey i cannot speak for your home of course but i think in his position it was more or less the same if you start to study about this then you will find out what the slime really stands for for me this was during the test took me more than a year. with ups and downs with a lot of questions during this period so it was a struggle it was not like you wake up in the morning and i think beignets that's become i may have not phrase it correctly but certainly it was a very long journey and the journey for

a while and to another you went from hating islam to loving it do you think there is certain psychological predisposition that leads people down that path or was it just random. i'm going to just about that because it's in the hands of in the hands of all of course who has become muslim and not in my position and i don't think it was like a psychological point of view it was just a rest you know a journey for for knowledge and i started to learn about this on the with the intention to go for it both just i was interested in islam because you hear a lot about this but i just wanted to know more about it again if you study islam and you are sincerely and your are open minded there you will find out that islam is not standing for oppression for terrorists and for intolerance quite the opposite now in many of your interviews you argued that there is a war going on against islam the squeeze of waging that war islam is on the pressure worldwide and since nine eleven. there is

a war against islam not with weapons at least not in western europe and the united states where there is a war from a lot of people from other political parties from the media and for some lobby groups and organizations they are. promoting themselves the new people that islam assess the threat for a society and this is a war because no even in the netherlands people muslims and in particular on paper we owe of the same rights about in reality the rights of most are on the pressure but if we consider the statistics the number of mosques political representation even media narratives muslim seem to be far more incorporated into the fabric of european lives today than ever aren't you perhaps exaggerating the oppression of muslims in europe in this a fashion that you used to exaggerate the danger presented by them yes but now i know more than i knew a couple of years ago and i was in this political participation we talked about

a lot of people in this period about how to fight islam and how to find muslims in general and not in a physically way about. people are afraid that the muslim so the muslim population is growing and they are gaining influence and their level of education it's growing and there are starting a business and there are different politics and then all the social platforms in society in general for a lot of people that it is a threat it was never meant to be that muslims immigrants would stay here but no the there are fourth generation they are here and they are not planning to leave unfortunately this threat to a lot of people well according to the general intelligence and security service islamic extremism in that alliance has transformed from virtually invisible into an all pen and widespread phenomenon with several hundred supporters and thousands

of sympathizers do you agree with this a sudden assessment because it seems that some of those fears that people may have of islam there are based on the on the objective trends or maybe i should have said that some of the fears. that people have towards particular group of muslims on the real threats of course well there's always and you have as an african nation there's always a small percentage of people that are extreme. left who are sized you can be extreme in the snow in fighting against all the relations with is not the purpose of islam islam is that the religion about extremism is not islam to the other starts for example assimilation is also a form of extremism so you have to stand for your failures and extremism is not a part of. people who within this this small percentage we're talking about maybe one or two percent that are aggressive and misguided and don't understand this

islam we have to of course we have to have to deal with and in a legal way but but i think it would also agree that certain strands of islam are more prevalent than others and i think what we see in many muslim countries is an effort to preserve indigenous islam and protect it from foreign influences particularly the saudi influence after a long record of what i would call predatory religious practices do you believe in diversity within islam and do you think it should be protected. diversity of islam in my opinion and again i'm not a scholar on the course about islam there is only one this lama and the only islam that is the islam as it to be is a tolerant and open mind is religion that has respect for other religions and other people and for no muslims and islam stands not for violence again the small group of people that are presenting themselves as muslims you can doubt if they are most

anxious not up to me to judge about that of course but. they are we know for we have some we have done some research that some of these people actually are froma political parties and organizations that are actually fighting islam so if they are really muslims and if they are fighting for a most. perspective that is something you can question about well let me pose a question that you may not like but i still want to ask you because the mosque in the hague where or where you converted the mosque has been mentioned by the dutch and in television service as a salafi leaning community i'm sure you know it has a track record of. vitriolic speech there were a preachers like for example if i was janae the who called for death or disease to people who criticized islam do you think that kind of speech should be allowed in the most particularly in your own mosque well again the this person is not involved

in this mosque anymore and we're talking about a period of ten years ago so things have changed even in this mosque and they are can contribute into society in a fairy positive way they are open minded and they are for but he is welcome to face at this most so we are talking about a different period but then on the other hand even if you call yourself salathiel whatever you cold to yourself or other groups within islam as long as you are within the law within the low you are free to talk on two people about the religion as low as you don't go for. violence and for for intolerance. slowness i know and i'm not the most and for that alone most of us thinks yes but i have never noticed anyone in this mosque. calling for a aggression or attacks or terrorists and quite the contrary but they are very expressive and they are expressing themselves against the extremists and i think that's a good point that particular preacher so was junaid stated during

a sermon that bow down dodge and harshly a leader who collaborated to be a feel one go off on he is a film submission he ask ally to blind her side to give her a brain cancer to give her tongue cancer do you understand how people can hear that oh read that and think that this is not religion of peace to me yes but then again that's this we're talking about a long time ago he was only fired in two thousand and twelve from what i know and he wasn't fired on religious grounds he was fired because if administrate if. i don't know about that i know what the we're talking about the period that is seventy years ago even before it was gone converted to islam. are his words at the look my words but again he has never been sentenced for for this if there is. there is no he has never been to jail or whatever so we are still living in a democracy and if he is stepping about you know over

a certain legal lines and you have to public authority to you know or to do something about it. but then again he's not working in this anymore so he's not for it the same thing assume must anymore well mr brown don't we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to sit in the home field where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and the fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people and i saw

one on t.v. . i'm going to talk about football not the or else you can sink i was going to go. by the way ways and such lines here. my thought of who is the liar who will accept the idea of course this will be ocean without by listening i was there on the board of the little six to seven with your was it about as it's covered up or we are going to be slipping i don't mind slipping into a one stage i underline the which means that we will be living living in it the fun one is did situation therefore is lighter we'll find itself neither do you wish i was the north you're welcome because their claim.

oh my the phone are sixteen novels month honestly didn't you know. just. isis fighters and now boarding a philippine naval ship. but not for me ned and. that i. just still don't know what's waiting for them. to. be here and i. have to get out of here.

for my must lead people by its own keep the slums you force me you focus on domestic abuse that he's the one. you see in the. most with. young. boy. who came here and then. the little.

welcome back to worlds apart with want to warn president of the european. mr one to one before the break i mentioned the the former cia on harsh reality who made an opposite transition to yours from a practicing muslim to an atheist and a critic although not a hater of islam do you respect journey. again. and. of course it's a sarah thing if someone is leaving islam or choosing but they are free to do that we are living in a free country and democracy. and also from the from the perspective of islam you have to accept people that death of course we have to do shall try to do something you know try to convince people by talking with them and you know exchange information maybe you can get them back to the to islam about the again

this is not in our hands it's in the hands of. now islam has long had a somewhat complicated relationship with the freedom of speech and expression as they're defined in the west and i know that in that the lens and particularly this debate became far more polarized after a series of murders of people who were critical of islam particularly filmmaker theo van gogh fifteen years later do you think the dutch society has been able to find a proper balance between the religious and non-religious expression well unfortunately things are not go in the right direction at this moment in the netherlands and not only in the us and the rest of western europe to see the far right and for intolerant political parties are growing i think that it's a great concern. because some minorities in europe in the netherlands for example the jewish minority the is the muslim majority they are both on their

attack on. this very thin layer of tolerance that we are supposed to have in the in the nuns as it's fading away in the fairy fairy foster way and this is a great concern definitely and we know all the. well that long ago sixty eighty years ago we had the same situation then about the jews and no the muslims the muslim minorities in the same position the basics and it's worrying and yet you as a representative of that muslim minority has been able to return to politics you now represent an islamic political party in the city council of the hague and it looks really like part of a broader trend than the one in the west when expressly muslim openly muslim politicians are taking a bigger political taking on the bigger political role is there any difference in your view between being. a secular politician as he used to be back in your.

religious years being a muslim politician no there's no the big difference you have christian politicians we have muslim politicians. our party protection a part of the unit is the only real islamic party. there are all the parties they call themselves islamic best but there are basically such you know are parties which is not a problem of course but i don't think it is a problem issue a report a titian and your background is its relation if it is a jewish or christian or a muslim. i don't thing that doesn't make any difference we are all trying to contribute to society in a post where the reason i'm asking is because politics is usually thought of as a field associated with a lot of ethical and moral compromises have you ever been in a position where you felt that your beliefs contradicted with what was politically expedient. they situations they they have been sometimes we are trying to base our

political strategy and the way we are knowing you know we are politicians and we are basing our political few on the koran and so no so if things are not in line with that for example during voting then we will not follow the revolt against it or normally that is not the problem but then again islam is is a part of the dutch a society with over a million one point two million muslims in the netherlands the majority of the people in my come in my city in the hague is from in the west an original eighty percent of them is muslim so we are in society and we are part of society and we have the right to express ourselves and of course sometimes you have to base with other political parties that's part of democracy well if you are ever put in their position do you think you could deal with the dutch freedom party i know you disagree on religious issues but other any other issues where your political positions overlap no it's not really not really maybe some of them if it's about

you know for example the way we treat people in the us a youth and family. you know that the gap between the very rich people amount of respect and a lot of people that are not having that much money so we have some problems that be both. try to do to fight and to deal with but in general no there are not really because they are an intolerant party promoting a hate and intolerance and we. are at the party we are trying to build bridges and bring people together so that this quite the opposite now the far right parties often obsess about what they see as the possible islamic takeover if you're a but i heard you say i heard your voice an opposite concerned that islam may disappear from europe within the next twenty to forty years. if muslims moderate

muslims don't take a stand on two balls relying on the exam and fear it's you attract more supporters islam is a moderate religion so there are no moderate muslims or extreme muslims and you have muslims but the thing is that because we are a threat for society for the for a lot of people in certain positions they don't like muslims to be like the way it's supposed to be from the point of fish and they are trying to create the so-called moderate muslims or or or or western muslims that is a threat because i said earlier that extremism for example i-s. is a threat for islam but the other side the other way is also a stream of leaving islam and leaving and trying to create their own religion and call it a slum that is also a danger and we have to stay in the middle because as i said before islam is the moderate religion well actually leading me perfectly to my next question because

all i asked him at the number of muslims in europe is on the increase but you warned about the strengthening of the so-called western islam a younger generation who believe an alibi to allow themselves for example a glass of wine or who don't pray five times a day is it really up to you or anyone else on this planet to determine who is a good muslim and who is not no of course not is not up to other muslims to decide to judge if someone is a muslim or not it's up to allah we have to respect that and i do of course. we also have to warn especially the young generation the young people for the dangers of this so-called western islam where you're supposed to drink a whole you go to a bar you go to described a cure all these things that is. a common and western countries but the good thing is so the especially the young generation you're talking about young generation they are just getting back to the. what the supposed to be and that's

a good thing and they are leaving those this so-called western islam from their parents and maybe the first and second generation now you also spoke about radicalization as one of the major threats to islam where do you personally draw the line between the hardline by nonviolent version of islam the extremist one. expect again extremism is not. allowed within islam. i said before islam is the mother of the nation so there is no place for extremists but there is a right of course if people want to be like i can call it maybe an unorthodox muslim orthodox christians and also the juice. they should be free to do that we live in a free society in the works on the wrist freedom of religion mr and mrs the reason i'm asking about this is because you know there are a number of countries saudi arabia is one of them where you don't have a cure yourself what kind of islam are you you practice your i when i go there even as a non muslim i have to comply with their rules reach are imposed on me there absolutely

no tolerance of freedom and god free card so that's why i'm asking where that line lies be to be in hardline orthodox islam or if you want to call it. an extremist one because some would say that killing people for that own choices is an extremist saudi arabia does it as a as a state policy first of all we're living in saudi arabia later in the netherlands and we are minority in that i do you talked about all of before so you surely see muslim says people around the world rather than confined to a single country well then again within islam there is no place for extremism but for example people are calling most times these days that are praying five times the five times a day that are doing the ramadan go to go how much wearing a job. some people call that extremism but that is not extremist and that islam is a supposed to be and if people want to perform their religion in that way they

should be free to do that i'm talking extremism in my point of view is creating hate intolerance judging other people because they are not a muslim or they are from another religion and i said to some oh these things are not part of islam about they are by some media. and politicians they tell people that is islam but it has nothing to do with islam islam is a peaceful religion well mr van dorn i think we probably disagree on the definition of extremism here because having every put it from the syrian frontlines i see anyone who went to syria to join isis as an extremist but you back in two thousand and fourteen sad that we should not label guys who have been to syria as dangerous you said that you know a number of people who have returned they may be disillusioned but they are not dangerous and obviously they didn't go there to plant trees they went there to fight and kill how do you know if they're dangerous or extremist or not well

again. it's one of the forms of extremism that we should not promote of course in my opinion again another scholar but i guess it's nothing to do with islam. and this is where we created by other organizations but we know we don't have to talk. of course some of them can be dangerous and if they come back to the no less and to other western european countries they should be monitored and if they have. committed crimes against humanity or worse or crimes they have to go to a church and the you know we have a legal system but we have to monitor these people but to say oh all of them including their wives and innocent children so often three four five six years old you cannot say that they are terrorists and if they are sincere and they feel sorry for what they have done you have to come back you have to go to stand for george and to you have to be monitored but these people need a chance they need a second chance like everybody else you mentioned wives and children and according

to the dutch authorities there are they maybe more than one hundred forty five children of foreign fighters growing up within the i says held territory most of them under the age of four or five and the dutch intelligence is pretty open stating that they believe that those children may pose. a future risk for the country they also almost never fail to mention that most of them were born in syria or iraq should that mean that the netherlands has no responsibility for those kids and that those kids should be dumped in syria and nobody should take care of them. of course to the say that. the age of three four five years that they are a threat. that's that's ridiculous of course it's ridiculous. that's creating hate that is creating intolerance. of course these people are in the in syria or iraq or and turkey or whatever where they are and some of these threats you erode refugee

camps. we are again we are we are a democracy we are we are a legal society and they have the right to come back but then again if they have done something that is against the rules if they have killed people or committed war crimes they have to stand for a judge and they will be convicted if they are convicted also they have done their sentence they are free and they should be guided. well if they are still with threats in the eyes of some people who are already in intelligence agencies again they should be monitored and that's also another very legal weight of dealing with it because people are granted certain human rights and certain legal rights and i think no bureaucracy can the joy just on its own accord anyway mr one don't we have to leave it here but i really appreciate you sharing your perspective with us today thank you very much you're welcome your special i encourage our viewers to you keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same

place same time here on worlds apart. the list on. my side is that is it. not. so there is a building also up. in the him a ride i think the question was about

a file a night. look at the locks on the hood of the little guy we. don't want the modern i don't want to know about. something that's really not yet one of the our mr need. a clone of the. art of a shuffle stem and we have been down. there and we'll get a little warmth and you know we'll see. oh. my god so that idea for this idol of the.

by the country's military. president. almost six. flooded the streets of. fifteenth weekend in a row.