it's not up to me who is guided to islam and not but of course the best thing is not to curse him and to fight him about to make the way for him and maybe he will convert to islam you never know another member of the freedom party pace with a your. most in the since october last year and i hope that many more will follow i know that both in christian and in islamic tradition there is an expression something along the lines that god are. rules in mysterious ways but i wonder you there is perhaps also certain psychological predisposition that may make these people to switch camps or abruptly it was not really a not for me and therefore your we both. are educated people we are not like. people that just jump into conclusions so within twenty four hours or for both of us of those journey i cannot speak for your home of course but i think in his

position it was more or less the same if you start to study about this then you will find out that this not really stands for for me this was a journey just took me more than a year. with ups and downs with a lot of questions during this period so it was a struggle it was not like you wake up in the morning and then you think beignets that's become i may have not phrase it correctly but certainly it was a very. long journey and the journey for a while and to another you went from haiti new slum to loving it do you think there is certain psychological predisposition that leads people down that path oh was it just random. i cannot judge about that because it's in the hands of in the hands of a law of course who is who would become muslim and not in my position and i don't think it was like a psychological point of view it was just a rest you know a journey for for knowledge and i started to learn about this line that with the

intention to convert both just i was interested in islam because you hear a lot about this and i just wanted to know more about it again if you study islam and you are sincerely and your are open minded there you will find out that islam is not standing for oppression the for terrorists and for intolerance quite the opposite now in many of your interviews you argued that there is a war going on against islam who is of waging that war islam is on the pressure worldwide and since nine eleven. there is a war against islam not with weapons at least not in western europe and the united states where there is a war from a lot of people from all the political parties from the media and for some lobby groups and organizations they are. promoting themselves. to people that islamists a sore throat for a society and this is a war because no even in the netherlands people muslims and in particular on paper we owe at the same rights about the in reality the rights of muslim are under

pressure but if we consider the statistics the number of mosques political representation even media narratives muslim seem to be far more incorporated into the fabric of european lives today in d.c. fashion you used to exaggerate the danger presented by them yes but now i know more than i knew a couple of years ago and i was in this political participation we talked about a lot of people in this period about how to fight islam and how to find muslims in general and not in a physically way about. people are afraid the muslims so the muslims it's growing and there are starting a business and there are different politics and then all the social platforms in society in general but no the thirty fourth generation they are here and they are not planning to leave unfortunately that's a threat to a lot of people well according to the general intelligence and security service

islamic extremism in that the lens has transformed from virtually invisible into and all pain and widespread phenomenon with several hundred supporters and thousands of sympathizers do you agree with this a sudden assessment because it seems that some of those fears that people may have of islam there are based on the on objective trends or maybe i should have said that some of the fears that people have towards particular group of muslims on the real threats of course well there's always and you have as an african nation there's always a small percentage of people that are extreme. left at the door at. you can be extreme in no in fighting against the relationship with is not the purpose of islam islam is that the religion about extremism is not islam to the other starts for example assimilation is also

a form of extremism so you have to stand for your failures and extremism is not a part of. people who within this this small percentage we're talking about maybe one or two percent that are aggressive and misguided and don't understand this islam we have to of course we have to have to deal with and in a legal way but but i think it would also agree that certain strands of islam more prevalent than others and i think what we see in many muslim countries is an effort to preserve indigenous islam and protect it from foreign influences particularly the saudi influence after a long record of what i would call predatory religious practices do you believe in diversity within islam and do you think it should be protected. diversity of islam in my opinion and again i'm not a scholar on the course about islam there is only one this lama and the only islam that is the islam as it to be is

a total rent an open mind is religion that has respect for other religions and other people and for no muslim and islam stands not for violence again the small group of people that are presenting themselves as muslims you can doubt if they are most interest not up to me to judge about that of course but. they are we know for we have some we have done some research that some of these people actually are froma political parties and organizations that are actually fighting islam so if they are really muslims and if they are fighting from a most. perspective that is something you can question about well let me pose a question that you may not like but i still want to ask you because the mosque in the hague where or where you converted the mosque has been mentioned by the dutch and in television service as a salafi leaning community i'm sure you know it has a track record of. vitriolic speech they were preachers like for example for was june eighth who called for death or disease to people who

criticized islam do you think that kind of speech should be allowed in the most particularly in your own mosque well again the this person is not involved in this mosque anymore and we're talking about a period of eight and ten years ago so things have changed even in this mosque and they are can contribute into society in a very positive way they're open minded and they are everybody is welcome to face that this most so we are talking about a different period but then on the other hand even if you call yourself salathiel whatever you cold to yourself or other groups within islam as long as you are within the law within the low you are free to talk on to people about the religion as low as you don't go for. violence and for for intolerance. slowness i know and i'm not a muslim for that long most of us six years but i have never noticed anyone in this

mosque. calling for a aggression or attacks or terrorists and quite the contrary but they are very expressive and they are expressing themselves against the extremists and i think that's a good point that particular preacher so was junaid stated during a sermon that bow down dodge and heart say a leader who collaborated to be a feel one go off on he is a film submission he ask ally to blind her side to give her brain cancer to give her tongue cancer do you understand how people can hear that oh read that and think that this is not the air religion of peace to me yes but then again that's what we're talking about a long time ago he was only fired in two thousand and twelve from what i know and he wasn't fired on religious grounds he was fired because if administrate if. i don't know about that i know what the we're talking about the period that is seventy years ago even before it was converted to islam. are his words at the look

my words but again he has never been sentenced for for this if there is. there is no he has never been to jail or whatever so we are still living in a democracy and if he is stepping about you know over a certain legal lines and you have to look at thirty two you know or to do something about it. but then again he's not working in this anymore so he's not for it the same thing assume must anymore well mr brown don't we have to take a very short break now but he will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the

world of politics sport this list i'm showbusiness i'll see that. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the ball different clubs on one hand it is logical to sit in the home field where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and the fresh perspective from i'm used to surprising us all why not if you think. i'm going to talk about football not for you or else you can think i was going to go. by the way ways of the slide here. i'm a loss leader why is known to keep the slimes you force new the focus on domestic

abuse the peace of mind. you see in the film which not been for the most good moment in. the week. you know my. morning. you know shame when you don't let us. know what. welcome back to worlds apart with our no one to warn president of the european dollar how days mr wanda want to before the break i mentioned the the former dutch

harsh reality who made an opposite transition to yours from a practicing muslim to an atheist and a critical though not a hater of islam do you respect da journey of course of course again a muslim is a tolerant islam is a tolerant a religion of course it's a sarah thing if someone is leaving islam or choosing a vote they are free to do that we are living in a free country and democracy. and also from the so shall try to do something you know try to convince people by talking with them and about the again this is not in our hands it's in the hands of. now islam has long had a somewhat complicated relationship with the freedom of speech and expression as they're defined in the west and i know that in that the lens and particularly this debate became far more polarized after a series of murders of people who were critical of islam particularly filmmaker

theo van gogh fifteen years later do you think the dutch society has been able to find a proper balance between the religious and non-religious expression well unfortunately things are not go in the right direction at this moment in the netherlands and not only in the events and the rest of western europe to see the far right and for intolerant political parties are growing i think that it's a great concern. because some minorities in europe in the netherlands for example the jewish minority the is the muslim majority they are both on their attack on. this very thin layer of tolerance that we are supposed to have in the in the netherlands as it's fading away in the ferry for. we foster way and this is a great concern definitely and we know all that. long ago sixty eighty years ago we had the same situation then about the jews and no the muslims or the muslim

minorities in the same position that basically and it's worrying and yet you as a representative hope that the muslim minority has been able to return to politics you now represent an islamic political party in the city council of the hague and it looks really like part of a broader trend than the one in the west when expressly muslim openly muslim politicians are taking a bigger political taking on the bigger political role is there any difference in your view between being. a secular politician as he used to be back in your non-religious years and being a muslim politician no there's not a big difference you have christian politicians we have muslim politicians. our party protection a part of the unity is the only real islamic party. there are all the parties that they call themselves islamic best but there are basically such who are parties

which is not a problem of course but i don't think it is a problem issue reported titian and your background is its relation if it is a jewish or christian or a muslim. i don't thing that doesn't make any difference we are all trying to contribute to society in a post if way the reason i'm asking is because politics is usually thought of as a field associated with a lot of ethical and moral compromises have you ever been in a position where you felt that your beliefs contradicted with what was politically expedient. they situations they have been sometimes we are trying to base our political strategy and the way we are knowing you know we are politicians and we are basing our political few on the koran and so no so if things are not in line with that for example during voting then we will not follow the revolt against it or normally that is not a problem but then again islam is is a part of the dutch

a society with over a million one point two million muslims in the netherlands the majority of the people in my come in my city in the hague is from in the west an original eighty percent of them is muslim so we are in society and we are part of society and we have the right to express ourselves and of course sometimes you have to base with all the political parties that's part of democracy well if you are ever put in their position do you think you could deal with the dutch freedom party i know you disagree on religious issues but other any other issues where your political positions overlap no it's not really not really maybe some of them if it's about you know for example the way we treat people in the lines a youth and family. you know that the gap between the very rich people amount of risk people and a lot of people that are not having that much money so we have some problems that

be both. try to do to fight and to deal with but in general no there are not really because they are an intolerant party promoting a hate and intolerance and we. are at the party we are trying to build bridges and bring people together so that this quite the opposite now the far right parties often obsess about what they see as the possible islamic takeover of europe but i heard you say i heard your voice an opposite concerned that islam may disappear from europe within the next twenty to forty years. if muslims moderate muslims don't take a stand on you both relying on the exam and fear it's you attract more supporters islam is a moderate religion so there are no moderate muslims or extreme muslims and yes muslims but the thing is that because we are a threat for society for the for a lot of people in certain positions they don't like muslims to be like the way

it's supposed to be from the point the fist and they are trying to create the so-called other muslims or or or or western muslims that is a threat because i said earlier that extremism for example i guess is a threat but the other side the other way is also a stream isn't leaving islam and leaving and trying to create your own religion and call it a slum that is also a danger and we have to stay in the middle because as i said before islam is the moderates religion well actually leading me perfectly to my next question because by all estimates the number of muslims in your old western islam a younger generation who believe in alabama to allow themselves for example a glass of wine or who don't pray five times a day is it really up to you or anyone else on this planet to determine who is a good muslim and who is not no of course not is not up to other muslims to decide or to judge if someone is

a muslim or not it's up to allah we have to respect that and i do of course. we also have to warn especially the young generation the young people for the dangers of this so-called western islam where you're supposed to drink a whole you go to a bar you go to described a cure all these things that is. a common in western countries but the good thing is so the especially the young generation you're talking about the young generation they are just getting back to the to the islam where it reached what the supposed to be and that's a good thing and they are leaving those this so-called western. islam from their parents and maybe the first and second generation now you also spoke about radicalization as one of the major threats to islam where do you personally draw that line between the hardline by nonviolent version of islam the extremist one. expect again extremism is not. allowed within islam. said before islam or some

other insulation so there is no place for extremists but there is a right of course if people want to be like a call it may be an unorthodox muslim orthodox christians and also the juice. they should be free to do that we live in a free society in the work on the wrist freedom of religion mr and mr von the reason i'm asking about this is because you know there are a number of countries saudi arabia is one of them where you don't have a cure yourself what kind of islam are you you practice your i when i go there even as a non muslim i have to comply with the rules are imposed on me there absolutely no tolerance of freedom and god free card so that's why i'm asking where that line lies be to be in hardline orthodox islam or if you want to call it. an extremist one because some would say that killing people for that own choices is an extreme is saudi arabia does it as a as a state policy first of all we're living in saudi arabia later in the netherlands

and we are minority in that i do you talked about obama before so you surely see a muslim says people around the world rather than confined to a single country but then again within islam there is no place for extremism but for example people are calling muslims these days that are praying five times five times a day that are doing the ramadan go to show how much wearing a job. some people call that extremism but that is not extremists and that islam is a supposed to be an if people want to perform their religion in that way they should be free to deliverance judging other people because they are not a muslim or they are from another religion and i said to some o. these things are not part of islam about they are by some media and politicians they tell people that is islam but it has nothing to do with islam islam is of peace. no relation well mr van dorn i think we probably disagree on the definition of extremism here because having every plot it's from the syrian frontlines i see

anyone who went to syria to join isis as an extremist but you back in two thousand and fourteen sad that we should not label guys who have been to syria as dangerous you said that you know a number of people who have returned they may be disillusioned but they are not dangerous and obviously they didn't go there to plant trees they went there to fight and kill how would you know if they're dangerous or extremes of extremism that we should not promote of course in my opinion again another scholar but i guess it's nothing to do with islam. and this has already created by other organizations will be you know we don't have to talk about that. of course some of them can be dangerous and if they come back to the no less so to other western european countries they should be monitored and if they have. committed crimes against humanity or worse or crimes they have to go to a church and the you know we have a legal system but we have to monitor these people but to say oh all of them

including their wives and innocent children so often three four five six years old you cannot say that they are terrorists and if they are sincere and they feel sorry for what they have done you have to come back to have to go to stand for george and to you have to be monitored but these people need a chance they need a second chance like everybody else you mentioned wives and children and according to the dutch authorities there are they maybe more than one hundred forty five children of foreign fighters growing up within the i says held territory most of them under the age of four or five and the dutch intelligence is pretty open stating that they believe that those children may pose a future risk for the country they're also almost never fail to mention that most of them were born in syria or iraq should that mean that then that's a lie. and has no responsibility for those kids and that those kids should be dumped in syria and nobody should take care of them. of course to the say that.

the age of three four five years that they are a threat. that's that's ridiculous of course it's ridiculous. that's creating hate that is creating untold amounts. of course these people are in the in syria or iraq or and turkey or whatever where they are and some with these threats you erode refugee camps. we are again we are we are a democracy we are we are a legal society and they have the right to come back but then again if they have done something that is against the rules if they have killed people or committed war crimes they have to stand for a judge and they will be convicted if they are convicted also they have done their sentence they are free and they should be guided. well if they are still with threats in the eyes of some people who are already in friendship intelligence agencies again they should be monitored and that's also another very legal weight

of dealing with it because people are granted certain human rights and certain legal rights and i think no bureaucracy can that with joy just on its own accord anyway mr one don't we have to leave it here but i really appreciate you sharing your perspective with us today thank you very much you're welcome. i encourage our viewers to you keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

on. the list and. i'm just a sit. in. so there are a lot of buildings still up. in the himalayas. but. look . it up and i. don't want the money i don't know i don't want to know about. some that you didn't really. want to. miss the need to. own. a full stomach with. a little warmth and you know what.

this i don't. i thought it could be this lion who will accept the idea of course this will be ocean. six this up it was your was it about is it's got because we are going to be slipping i don't mind the snipping and go one step beyond the line which means that we would be living in. one this did situation. is lighted with a find and said no i thought of you wish i was the north you're welcome i think i was very clear. in. my dough for not sixteen novels. just far end up dollar after former isis fighters and now boarding

a philippine naval ship. but maybe not for me ned sounding name that lives. just aren't our dollars still don't know what's waiting for them. this is what. we do i am a lucky. man but that was how i kept thinking about what i'm up to the man i'm the most. war. when lawmakers manufacture consent to constituents of public wealth. when the roman class is project themselves. in the frame and merry go

round the sun in the one percent. that's why we can all middle of the room signals. room for the real news is real. a journalist working for an r.t. affiliated companies injured on the colombia venezuela border as national guard plowed through crowds and then attempt to get. almost six thousand yellow bus protesters a flooded the streets of paris for

a fifteenth successive weekend of anti-government rallies. also go on the weekly an act of censorship the head of the international federation of journalists is lambasted facebook's decision to suspend several. pages.