we're going to headed east into the swamp we're going into the belly of the beast i think i want to leave now govern anymore of the earth may be completely different but the end of the journey. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to trump administration's attempts to impose regime change on venezuela appear to be faltering the self-proclaimed interim president though how to gain much traction this may this may explain the administration's escalating rhetoric after all we are told the military option is still on the table.

across talking venezuela i'm joined by my guest down the bar in new york he's an anti-war activists and host of a daily radio program in geneva we have desires he is a professor of law at geneva school of diplomacy and a former u.n. independent expert on the promotion of democratic and equitable international order and in ottawa we cross to isaac no one survived the he is a venezuelan canadian professor at the university of ottawa all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alfred first in geneva and congratulate him on his report that he presented to the united nations about it was very enlightening i wish more people would read it particularly in the media and maybe in the american political class why does the united states feel it isn't incumbent upon itself to fix the problems of venezuela no one denies venezuela has a lot of problems but why should an outside power like the united states that has a very checkered and i'm being very polite here checkered history and meddling in

latin america so i mean why is the trump administration and of all people elliott abrams appointed to fix venezuela. well you know stephen cancer's book overthrow and william blow bloom's book. killing hope it is an american tradition to tell latin america to apply what we call the monro doctrine and we have a long history of pig send the iran contra affair nicaragua panama grenada haiti etc we have been changing governments all the time participating in the coup against the so lie in on two or s. so this is nothing new i mean the united states is

a hedge i'm on and does like to deal with latin america as collegeville of course venezuela is after all an incredibly rich country with the largest oil reserves with enormous gold reserves on by outside reserves and. coltan reserves so. it's a bonanza ok. so now for it alford so it's oh it's just an asset play let me go to isaac here in ottawa i think it is. and it's very open unlike you know other of force regime change in the last two decades or so this administration is very open that it really wants to overthrow the government impose its own guy somebody that was of hardly known even within the country how do you think this forced imposed regime change is going because over the weekend it looked like it looked like a farce over the weekend go ahead it in ottawa where i beat your while this is not

that the e.u. is trying to put some he's about that in a square on society saying enough is enough and now he said no i don't really you know he said no. and now these are not what i grew up ration and now you say you know for shortages and now he's and now you have a huge majority of this without saying that see we want change and we want change you want to go peacefully we want change in order to have a street election and we want change because these people these routine cannot last any more any longer than see and what is happening here is that you have actually a. true. reading this situation because what he saw happening here you are not only the us you have most of. you have canada saying we want change the only leverage what right does canada have to

say about the fate of venezuela me or whatever and i don't know what it is now we have to have demands ok don i mean let me let me hear what i want for equal time for everyone i told that before we started the recording here let's go to don right now don. how is this a regime change playing out. because it seems to me because of the fiasco over the weekend on the bridge which was filmed by so many people and it was quite obvious who incited the violence there but then you have within the same news cycle the rhetoric is increased the you know they always say that you know all options are on the table here is this something that do you think should happen could happen and certainly it shouldn't and why should they listen to someone that is. under the constitution of venezuela is a nobody still ok you know it does trump want to risk his reelection fortunes

on and on another failed regime change expedition that we saw all through the middle east for the last two decades go ahead done well i'll go into the details of this later but there are billions of assets of venezuela's that are in litigation in u.s. courts with a variety of multinational corporations attempting to seize them and having the u.s. recognize someone under their control as president means that he can walk into the court basically and stipulate to whatever the other side wants and release those assets to these multinational corporations i'll get to that more well later i want to speak about though the rhetoric with chris we have marco rubio holding up a picture of a murdered gadhafi. if you think about it libya played pretty much the same role that africa that venezuela was played in latin america for the last twenty years helping to organize it helping to fund its own independence and build you know beautiful defense of their sovereignty standing up together etc and gadhafi that

was his crime but what gaddafi did when he took off the power of sixty nine was said one of the poorest countries in the world and left it a middle class clown true where everyone there own their own homes people there were comfortable free education free healthcare etc those are not people that go out into the street and yet we see a picture of him held up by rubio as a threat to me now what rubio needs to know is that there are also people that are like him greedy little money grabbing people who go after other people's assets to steal them and there are photographs of their fate also the picture of mosul leni i think is something that someone needs to put a logo ok so ok and show him how he treats people yeah you know and i think marco rubio really embarrassed himself with that but that. comes because of hubris here let me go back to the geneva alfred let's talk about the opposition here is it

still is fractious is it was before because we had and i said talk about elections well it seems that the opposition is boycotting any kind of dialogue the government has asked for. and met with silence here and in the last election they boycotted so what i mean what kind of democratic credentials does the opposition have if they don't want to engage in talks or even participate in an election go ahead in geneva not very believable. when i was in then as well in the lambert december two thousand and seventeen i spoke with members of the national assembly of the opposition off a comment as the chamber of commerce etc somewhat of a feeling that they have their conception of what venezuela is supposed to be and socialism is simply not part of it and therefore they're not interested in genuine dialogue as you know the former spanish

. prime minister oh yes and we see you know that or conduct it for two years or years yeah or negotiation face to face of the opposition together with the government when there were three or ambassador or supporting the opposition three ambassadors of latin american supporting the government in any event on the sixth of february two thousand aiding there was a reasonable compromise i published. our agreement in my report to the you when our human rights council well what happened is that the phone rang and the whole of what has been the order not the enemy so don't sign so he didn't say i know i have. both still the more it you know all mechanism proposed by mexico and europe way although it's

a lovely idea and i very much believe in mediation it takes two to tango or take it it can go to igs exactly here let me let me i want to go i want to go back to isaac here because it's two against one and i want to be fair here i think answer venezuelan yourself i mean would you like to see i'm an american led military intervention into your country go ahead and are not. the sort of for me we have a regime that is not ready to accept we have a creamy not redeemed venezuela what you're describing as a social issue of this yes it's not the real what we have here is an article general trafficking we have people trafficking we call in the south where you talk about this whole. what's talking about all these assets and all these issues now then this will end kompany such as spending. in the ways it's because china has decided to confiscate it these these are.

you know there's going to be all due respect this interim president he said he wants to compensated i mean is it a thief stealing from i mean that's the reality and it's a logic of this go ahead i say keep going keep going keep going i mean here i mean a bad day destroyed i mean. including rough i don't need to be a troll but it is that's why we weigh in from treat on five mediocre bar be the fourth child to a situation now that barely. uses barely one. borrows the eight that was a drop of oil prices well what's in it or not royalty. there's a. case of russia that's still the case of saudi arabia is still even in the

case of the u.s. i mean come on i know it's called the global price drought everybody with the pain if you will yellow with her the most you know i would have i would argue ok all right gentlemen i'm going to have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on venezuela stay with r.t. . the liberals in america they consider themselves to be living in a pedestal. classes and they're never wrong and they have the moral high ground and occasionally when their policies are exposed as fraudulent. and they're don't want to deal with their unmasking they bring in

a max the or william kristol to beat people up there. my son was doing drugs my nephew was still in drugs my sister just with doing drugs it was like an epidemic of drug abuse america's public enemy number one in the united states is drug abuse we started going after the users in the prison population. we started treating sick people people who are addicted to these drugs like criminals while i was on the hill. the war on drugs. there are countless numbers of people who are in prison for. sins for whom minor minor offenders in the drug trade it's a lot watching your children grow up and miss you in waves and say by day as you're walking out of this it's just it doesn't get easier.

with. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter about to mind you were discussing venezuela. ok let me go back to don in new york. dawn knows me very well and of course my

viewers do and i'm a very conservative person and i'm not a very big. friend of socialism as it has been practiced in the world everyone knows that having said that don and i'm not being an apologist of chavez but i think it's pretty clear to say that a lot of people were in franchised in every single possible way in venezuela i mean before chavez the literacy rate was low and now it's almost universal i am not praising chavez i'm praising those programs all right so it seems to me that there's millions and millions of in his wayland's that are invested in a future that was being built under a socialist government the socialist government has made some very big big mistakes and i always look at corruption ok however my point is here is that you have a population that is vested in a future for venezuela when they didn't have that opportunity before go ahead done . yeah beginning with living indoors since chavez there has been to want to have a million two and a half million apartments built for people who before had to live in our goals

that's in a country of about twenty five million people that's a huge accomplishment under the conditions that we just heard described in terms of oil production which by the way certainly the u.s. sanctions that have been imposed on venezuela have had an impact as well as the litigation trying to tie up the resources of venezuela in the u.s. courts like citgo have had an impact on venezuela's entire oil industry but there are people who were materially invested because their lives are much better than they were before and they comprise a little better than half on on election day they comprise between forty and fifty five percent depending on the election over the last you know period since the one nine hundred ninety eight so you have people who have an opinion about this who feel very strongly i would just say also when you have aerial views of the

competing rallies yeah go on in venezuela right now you have a good idea about that because you have a million people that show up from a doro and tens of thousands that show up for the opposition ok i say i should give i see i was i see what i was ignitions are on the ground to give the other prison to give the other position i will introduce the question here isaac. reflect upon what you have heard and are you for i have you been a supporter of these sanctions against your country and do you support new sanctions because it doesn't seem i haven't finished my question it doesn't seem to have had much impact on the elites because well sanctions rarely do go ahead i think. first of all this time since i mean these are. actually outside assistance. and violent and by the raiders of human rights that's so. no they're for using. that if so why because you want these assets to

be transferred to the elite you can nickel or oh one way you go in order to but i mean that's the first thing i'm talking about the sanctions if you want to talk about the sanctions and. you know i have my mom eighty seven years all leaving. she was in the hospital last week and she had to take. an antibiotic for an inspection and she couldn't find it and she asked someone he said he and. i'm going to tell you in all that we have powers short to just eat get agca every day my sister leaching downtown. has power shortages every day and these lack of mitigation and the well that but is that because of sanctions or is that because you're saying. you know i don't know all this it's because we have a failed state we've ok i see her i see i see i see i see how i've

given you more than i say being fair i warned everyone before the recording please don't talk the talk over people you were given your time slot alfred you were you raised your hand like a good like a schoolboy wanting to inject something go ahead and you're a gentleman with a bow tie i can't resist go ahead alfred well peter when i went through and as who had i thought like i say i thought now socialism as a failed model and it's all my girls fall now i spend an enormous times studying the think years studying for instance the book by pasqualino or now mine or we see only their medical study articles and i read in the morning the people on wednesday the articles by mark advised by. those written a couple of very clever books on venezuela and i am persuaded today that obviously. in socialism there are too many idle logs and not enough technocrats and

you newt need technocrats but the real crisis is a direct result of the economic war and the economic war did not start yesterday the economic war started in one thousand nine hundred nine is been twenty years ago anomic war there's been financial blockade and for instance when the government has tried to buy insulin you hundred transactions start by the banks because it will not transfer the seven and a half million dollars necessary to purchase insulin or to purchase antiretroviral drugs back in november says a dog and seventeen when i was there it was a malaria outbreak in the amazon region. mother wants to buy antimalarial medicine from colombia colombia says low you have to go and buy it in india and roll it in so the question is here the cost of the crime ok the cars are good ok

how alfred alfred you know because of your good behavior isaac has raised his hand and he would like to jump in isaac would you like to respond to what alfred said going you're going to you're going to like to. i'm sure the problem here is that we have a real date on a will to basic things to people and i want to talk about these callers write whatever a book on this when i'm talking about my family. i'm not talking about us tractions about the ada or statistics i'm talking about the real life of people when you have almost sure me when this when i'm screen that country you think that they want to go there because they like to eat then this will be one to our albeit higher choose you know going to go along with. you in argentina no it's because there are little

care situation but i know what i say what i think you know what there's one way to kind of result hang on down everyone's raising their hand that's great i just want to say something that isaac then i will go directly to dan here that's why we have elections ok and if the opposition doesn't want to participate in the elections then then really then you're saying that you give your you're giving way and you've given way and that and that's what you get is a result here and since the opposition hardly can speak to itself before all this and now they won't speak to anyone for a negotiated end of this and this is what the government has been saying don you've been very patient i have to give fair time to everyone don go ahead. very quickly first that the beginning of this if socialism is such a failed experiment what is china. because they consider themselves still a socialist and communist state with chinese characteristics. you know i have to say that it's important for people to keep in mind this thing that has to do with

venezuela's assets being you know at the dock in the us courts and that the whoever ends up being the president recognized by the u.s. courts as president of venezuela will be free to dispose of these we're talking about one point three billion dollars for christology international over gold mine contracts for example you have it done well i don't know if you're going to have dollars i'm talking about it would fill up your training you bring up a very good point but what if it is why don't guy can't get back into venezuela is he just going to sit on all the wealth of venezuela in a plush palatial new york apartment is he going to run the country there i mean my goodness this is amazing alfred you wanted to know what he would be the i mean he wouldn't he would be a billionaire in exile maybe that's not a bad option for him alfred going you know i want to get i want to get everyone paratime alfred go ahead i think we all agree that we want genuinely to help then

it's well in a. crisis how to do it i think through mediation i think the month that we deal mechanism it's a good idea i think until a new group that is a proposal to offer these united nations good offices is good. settled back to live there our high commissioner has been or we surely invited to visit the country i think all of these are good initiatives we have to calm down and we have to go back to the u.n. charter that prohibits the direct off and the use of force we have to go back to the oil. yes charter i read you article nineteen of the oil as well yes john and that's it no state or group of state has the right to him to remain director or interethnic for any reason whatever in the internal affairs a state article or twenty knows they may use or encourage the use of corporate sent

measures of an economic or political character in order to force the sun and will again others. i gotta jump in i want to make sure everyone gets one more word in before we end our isaac in ottawa go here are your screechy about the charter of the organization of american states that's what you owe us sixty one because they interfere in the venezuelan affairs you know they fail by invading too much although be going to squeal and they say oh they get read a minister in a role with who got the greek elected president you know won't do what i'm getting . that right like right wing i mean it's. ok let me tell you know a thing about thirty lection any day you're not fair elections mate to any eighteen and you have a fair elections when you band can be the strong the opposition can run when you have kindly they'd look at all the locals in you know he's the one you are. free to

go back to run yeah you'll have it as i presume you have why when did i drag and wasn't elected to anything and he proclaimed what i'm selfish thing i'm doing a president or not so i was a stand in wrong all right you are easy. he's a representative who was elected even in to share election that we had because the opposition fought for the truly extreme white goal was elected as a member of the minutes while an argument and he was elected president of the prince went down i mean and according to. when i go. out all right you get back here and that is from northern interrogation and gentlemen we have run out of time i want to thank my guests in new york jim event and in ottawa and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and please remember crosstalk.

oh my dough for not sixteen months and i simply did not want to. buy this. just far under. isis fighters and now boarding a philippine naval ship. i'm . not for me ned. ninety dollars. just aren't up to the still don't know what's waiting for them. there to. be new

tell you not to. take it out of. my mind. i max kaiser one for my guide to financial survival this is a hedge fund it's a device used by professional scallywags to earn money. that's right these has flaws are simply not accountable and we're just adding more and more to that. totally destabilize the global economy you need to protect yourself and get in for kaiser. in a world of big partisan lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever

we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. this city creates its own kind of reality it has the greatest number of skyscrapers in the world. the highest population density. and is southeast asia's largest financial center. property prices on astronomic one square meter costs as much as two hundred fifty thousand u.s. dollars despite this two hundred fifty thousand people live in squalor to conditions the u.n. describes as an affront to human dignity.

as violence flares arabic colombia venezuela border the u.n. security council meeting called to discuss the crisis turns into a war of words. we ask that others join us in sanctioning those who've been involved in the violence over the last weekend instead of a hypocritical attempt to introduce assistance for twenty million dollars it is necessary to lift the. blocking of accounts of venezuelan state owned enterprises in american banks which totals eleven billion dollars. cornered in the commons the british prime minister says m.p.'s will get a vote on a no deal or to delay departure if they reject the mazy.