an independent expert on the promotion of democratic and equitable international order and in ottawa we cross to isaac no one survived the he is a venezuelan canadian professor at the university of ottawa all right gentlemen cross rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alfred first and in geneva and congratulate him on his report that he presented to the united nations i thought it was very enlightening i wish more people would read it particularly in the media and maybe in the american political class why does the united states feel it is it incumbent upon itself to fix the problems of venezuela no one denies venezuela has a lot of problems but why should an outside power like the united states that has a very checkered and i'm being very polite here checkered history in meddling in latin america so i mean why is the trump administration and of all people elliott abrams appointed to fix venezuela. well you know stephen cantor's book overthrow and william blow bloom's book. killing hope

it is an american tradition to tell latin america to apply what we call the monro doctrine and we have a long history he says and the iran contra affair nicaragua panama grenada haiti etc we have been changing governments all the time participating in the coup against. in. our absolute this is nothing new i mean the united states is had him on and does like to deal with latin america as colonies of course venezuela is after all an incredibly rich country with the largest oil reserves with enormous gold reserves on reserves and. coltan reserves

so. it's a bonanza ok on the case but it's american so right now for it so it's so it's just an asset play let me go to i secure in our what i think it is. and it's very open unlike you know other of force regime change in the last two decades or so this is ministration is very open that it really wants to overthrow the government impose its own garstin imposed regime change is going because over the weekend it looked like it looked like a farce over the weekend go ahead it in ottawa. while this is not that you is trying to ease about when it's going to society saying enough is enough and all you know why don't you know the sion and you know you say you know for shortages and all these and now you have a huge majority if you want to sort out st. we want change and we want change you

want to go peacefully we want change in order to create election and we want change because these people these routine cannot last any more any longer than see and what is happening here is that you have actually. reading this situation because what is happening here you are not only that you are you how are. you how can i say we won't change the only leverage what right does canada have to say about the fate of venezuela me or whatever i don't know what it is now we have to have demands ok don i mean let me let me hear what i want for equal time for everyone i told that before we started the recording here let's go to dan right now john. how is this a regime change playing out because it seems to me because of the fiasco over over

the weekend on the bridge which was filmed by so many people and it was quite obvious who incited the violence there but then you have within the same news cycle the rhetoric is increased to you know they always say that you know all options are on the table here is this something that do you think should happen could happen and certainly it shouldn't and why should they listen to someone that is. under the constitution of venezuela as a nobody still ok you know it does trump want to risk his reelection fortunes on and on another failed regime change expedition that we saw all through the middle east for the last two decades go ahead done. well i'll go into the details of this later but there are billions of assets of venezuela's that are in litigation in the us courts with a variety of multinational corporations attempting to seize them and having the u.s. recognize someone under their control as president means that he can walk into the

court basically and stipulate to whatever the other side wants and release those assets to these multinational corporations i'll get to that more well later i want to speak about though the rhetoric with because we have marco rubio holding up a picture of a murdered gadhafi. if you think about it libya play pretty much the same role that africa that venezuela has played in latin america for the last twenty years helping to organize it helping to fund its own independence and build you know beautiful defense of their sovereignty standing up together etc and gadhafi that was his crime but what gaddafi did when he took off the power in sixty nine was said one of the poorest countries in the world and left it a middle class clown true where everyone there own their own homes people there were comfortable free education free healthcare etc those are not people that go out into the street and yet we see a picture of him held up by rubio as a threat to me now what rubio needs to know is that there are also people that are

like him greedy little money grabbing people who go after other people's assets to steal them and there are photographs of their fate also the picture of mosul leni i think is something that someone needs to put a look you know ok so ok and show him how he treats people yeah you know and i think marco rubio really embarrassed himself with that but that. comes because of hubris here let me go back to the geneva alfred let's talk about the opposition here is it still is fracture is is it was before because we had i said talk about elections well it seems that the opposition is boycotting any kind of dialogue the government has asked for. and met with silence here and in the last election they boycotted so what i mean what kind of democratic credentials does the opposition have if they don't want to engage in talks or even participate in an election go ahead in geneva not very believable. when i was in then as well in the

lambert december two thousand and seventeen i spoke with members of the national assembly of the opposition off a comment of the chamber of commerce etc some while feeling that they have their conception of what venezuela is supposed to be and socialism is simply not part of it and therefore they are not interested in genuine dialogue as you know the former spanish. prime minister oh yes and we see you know that or conduct it for two years or years yeah or negotiation face to face of the opposition together with the government when there were three or ambassadors supporting the opposition three ambassadors of latin american supporting the government in any event on the sixth of february two thousand aiding

there was a reasonable compromise i published. our agreement in my report to the you when our human rights council and what happened is that the phone rang and the whole you about has been to the order not the enemy so don't sign so he didn't say i know i have. the more it you know all mechanism proposed by mexico and europe way although it's a lovely idea and i very much believe in mediation it takes two to tango or take as if it can't i think igs exactly here let me let me i want to go i want to go back to isaac here because it's two against one and i want to be fair here i think it's a venezuelan yourself i mean would you like to see i'm an american led military intervention into your country go ahead and are not what i would like to see is a peaceful fortunately we have a regime that is not ready to accept we have

a creamy not redeemed venezuela what you're describing as a social issue of this yes it's not the real what we have here is an article general trafficking we have people trafficking we call it the south atlantic where you talk about this whole. what's talking about all these assets and all these issues now then this will end kompany such as spending. in the way it's because china has decided to confiscate it these these are. that's the problem and you know this shit even high on when i say probably all due respect this interim president he said he wants to complicated i mean is it a thief stealing from i mean that's the reality it's a logic of this go ahead i say keep going keep going keep going i mean here i mean a bad day destroyed i mean. including rough irony to

date he truly believes that that's why we went from treat on five mediocre viral the before charice to a situation now that barely a day this early uses barely one going to need to borrow the eight that was a drop of oil prices well what's in it no you are not royalty. yes exactly the case of russia that's still the case of saudi arabia is still even in the case of the u.s. i mean come on i know it's called the global price drought everybody wants her pain if you will or with her the most you know i would have i would argue ok all right gentlemen i'm going to have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on venezuela stay with r.t. . when

the whole make this manufacture come sentenced him to public wealth. when the running plus isn't protect themselves. when the financial

merry go round lifts only the one percent. going the whole middle of the room six. million more you mean. oh. i didn't say the numbers mean something they've mattered the us has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime happens each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent of the world market goes thirty percent some with four hundred to five hundred three first second per second and fifth when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars ai industrial park but don't let the numbers over. the only number you need to remember one one business show you know board

commit one and only boom box. class kind of financial survival job today with the money laundering first to visit this cash in the three different food. oh good this is a good start well we have our three banks all set up here maybe something in your something in america something overseas or the cayman islands it will pull these banks are complicit in the kleptocracy to decide if the democrats say ok i'm ready to do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we have. and i was going through. jewelry that have the. luxury i don't feel like. you know what money laundering i was. like.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter about trying to we're discussing venezuela. ok let me go back to don in new york. dawn knows me very well and of course my viewers do and i'm a very conservative person and i'm not a very big friend of socialism as it has been practiced in the world everyone knows that having said that don and i'm not being an apologist chavez but i think it's pretty clear to say that a lot of people were in franchised in every single possible way in venezuela i mean before chavez the literacy rate was low and now it's almost universal i am not praising chavez i'm praising those programs all right so it seems to me that there's millions and millions of in his wayland's that are invested in

a future that was being built under a socialist government the socialist government has made some very big big mistakes and i always look at corruption ok however my point is here is that you have a population that is vested in a future for venezuela when they didn't have that opportunity before go ahead down . yeah beginning with living indoors since chavez there has been to want to have a million two and a half million apartments built for people who before had to live in our goals that's in a country of about twenty five million people that's a huge accomplishment under the conditions that we just heard described in terms of oil production which by the way certainly the u.s. sanctions that have been imposed on venezuela have had an impact as well as the litigation trying to tie up the resources of venezuela in the u.s. courts like citgo have had an impact on venezuela's entire oriel industry but

there are people who were materially invested because their lives are much better than they were before and they comprise a little better than half on on election day they comprise between forty and fifty five percent depending on the election over the last you know period since the one nine hundred ninety eight so you have people who have an opinion about this who feel very strongly i would just say also when you have aerial views of the competing rallies yeah go on in venezuela right now you have a good idea about that because you have a million people that show up from a doro and tens of thousands that show up for the opposition ok i say i should give i see i was i see what i was ignitions are on the ground to give the other prison to give the other position i will introduce the question here isaac. reflect upon what you have heard and are you for i have you been a supporter of these sanctions against your country and do you support new sanctions because it doesn't seem i haven't finished my question it doesn't seem to

have had much impact on the elites because well sanctions rarely do go ahead i think in. some other times i mean these are. actually outside assistance. and violent and by the raiders of human rights that's so. no they're for using. that if so why because you want these assets to be transferred to the least you can recall or oh one where you go in order to but i mean that's the first thing i'm talking about the sanctions if you want to talk about the sanctions and. you know i have my mom eighty seven years all leaving. she was in the hospital last week and she had to take. an antibiotic for an inspection and she couldn't find it and she asked someone he said the and. i'm going to tell you in all that we have powers short to just eat get agca every

day my sister leaching downtown. has power shortages every day and these lack of mitigation and the well that but is that because of sanctions or is that because you're saying. you know i don't know all this it's because we have a failed state we ok i see her i see i see i see i see how i've given you more than i say being fair when i warned everyone before the recording please don't talk the talk over people you were given your time slot alfred you were you raised your hand like a good like a schoolboy wanting to inject something go ahead and you're a gentleman with a bow tie i can't resist go ahead alfred well peter when i went through and as who had i thought like i say i thought now socialism as a failed model and it's all my girls fall now i spend an enormous times studying

the think years studying for instance the book by pass quietly not your mind or we see only their america or. articles that i read in the morning the people i went the good articles by mark advised by. those written a couple of very clever books on venezuela and i am persuaded today that obviously. in socialism there are too many idle logs and not enough technocrats and you newt need technocrats but the real crisis is a direct result of the economic war and the economic war did not start yesterday the economic war started in one thousand nine hundred nine is been twenty years ago anomic war there's been financial blockade and for instance when the government has tried to buy insulin you hundred transactions start by the banks because it will

not transfer the seven and a half million dollars necessary to purchase insulin or to purchase antiretroviral drugs back in november says a dog and seventeen when i was there it was a malaria outbreak in the amazon region. mother wants to buy antimalarial medicine from colombia colombia says low you have to go and buy it in india and roll it in so the question is here the cost of the crime ok the cost of a a r k how alfred alfred you know because of your good behavior isaac has raised his hand and he would like to jump in isaac would you like to respond to what alfred said going you're going to you're going to look like two people and sure the problem here is that we have a real date on a will to basic things to people and i want to talk about these callers write whatever a book in this way and don't get on my try and. i'm not talking about abstractions

about the eight or so i'm talking about the real life people when you have almost sure me then this will and that country you think that they want to go there because they like to eat then this will be one to our albeit higher choose you know going to go on we. know it's because there are leak a situation but i know what i say when i think you know what there's one way to kind of result hang on down everyone's raising their hand that's great i just want to say something that isaac then i will go directly to dan here that's why we have elections ok and if the opposition doesn't want to participate in the elections then then really then you're saying that you give your you're giving way and you've given way and that and that's what you get is a result here and since the opposition hardly can speak to itself before all this and now they won't speak to anyone for

a negotiated end of this and this is what the government has been saying don you've been very patient i have to give fair time to everyone don go ahead. very quickly first that the beginning of this if socialism is such a failed experiment what is china. because they consider themselves still a socialist and communist state with chinese characteristics. you know i have to say that it's important for people to keep in mind this thing that has to do with venezuela's assets being you know at the dock in the us courts and that the whoever ends up being the president recognized by the u.s. courts as president of venezuela will be free to dispose of these we're talking about one point three billion dollars for christology international over gold mine contracts for example you have to. go into dollars johnny america it would fill up you drain and you bring up

a very good point but what if it is why don't guy can't get back into venezuela is he just going to sit on all the wealth of venezuela in a plush palatial new york apartment is he going to run the country there i mean my goodness this is amazing alfred you wanted to know what he would be the i mean he wouldn't he would be a billionaire in exile maybe that's not a bad option for him alfred going you know i want to get i want to get everyone paratime alfred go ahead i think we all agree that we want genuinely to help then it's well in a. crisis how to do it i think through mediation i think the month that we deal mechanism it's a good idea i think until a new group that is his proposal to offer these united nations good offices is good. our high commissioner has been or we surely invited to visit the country i think all of these are good initiatives we have to calm down jogger i read you. nineteen only all is well yes john it's no they or groups

they have the right to enter remainder. or interestingly for any reason whatever in the internal affairs a state article or twenty knows they may use or encourage the use of corporate sent measures of an economic or political character in order to force the sun and will again others. i gotta jump in i want to make sure everyone gets one more word in before we end our isaac in ottawa go your screenplay about the charter of the organization of american states that's what you owe us sixty one because they are sure you're doing this when affairs you know they fail by invading too much although beach in this way and they say it with a good read a minister in a role with. the great elected president you know won't do what i got. that right. there lectured me to any eighteen i knew how fair

elections when you band can be the stronger position to run when you have kindly they'd look all of the locals in you know he's the one you are in bigger than to run yet you'll have it as i presume you have why why why why did i drag and wasn't elected to anything i think bricklaying what i'm selfish thing i'm doing a president or not so i was a stand in wrong all right you are easy. he's a representative who was elected even in to share election that we had because the opposition fought for the truly extreme white goal was elected as a member of the next well an argument and he was elected president of the prince went down i mean and according to the when it's when i'm going to do so when you're all right and you look at it that is that is one interpretation and gentlemen we

have run out of time i want to thank my guests in new york geneva and in ottawa and thanks to our. you are for watching us here at our t.v. see you next time and please remember crosstalk. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. need. for my dough for one hour sixty novel pride month on a city denoted. by the.

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done say is it show it's on to indian or a force jet so where disputed kashmir capturing the two pilots plus the nuclear armed rivals and violence as a. culture coming up in the program the start of one of the most anticipated summits of the year is on their way to the u.s. the north korean leader is trying to make headway over denuclearize ation and ending the decades long. sources tell the washington post stuff the u.s. military to be destructed into.