independent expert on the promotion of democratic and equitable international order and in ottawa we cross to isaac no one survived the he is a venezuelan canadian professor at the university of ottawa all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alfred first and in geneva and congratulate him on his report that he presented to the united nations about it was very enlightening i wish more people would read it particularly in the media and maybe in the american political class why does the united states feel it is it incumbent upon itself to fix the problems of venezuela no one denies venezuela has a lot of problems but why should an outside power like the united states that has a very checkered and i'm being very polite here checkered history in meddling in latin america so i mean why is the trump administration and of all people elliott abrams appointed to fix venezuela. well you know stephen cancer's book overthrow and william blow bloom's book. killing hope

it is an american tradition to tell latin america to apply what we call the monro doctrine and we have a long history of pig send the iran contra affair nicaragua panama grenada haiti etc we have been changing governments all the time participating in the coup against the so lie in on two or s. so this is nothing new i made the united states is a hedge i'm on and does like to deal with latin america as collegeville of course venezuela is after all an incredibly rich country with the largest oil reserves with enormous gold reserves and by outside reserves and.

coltan reserves so. it's a bonanza of ok. so now for it alford so it's oh it's just an asset play let me go to isaac here in ottawa i think it is. and it's very open unlike you know other of force regime change in the last two decades or so this administration is very open that it really wants to overthrow the government impose its own guy somebody that was of hardly known even within the country how do you think this forced imposed regime change is going because over the weekend it looked like it looked like a farce over the weekend go ahead it in ottawa where i beat your while this is not that you is trying to put some he's about that in a square on society saying enough is enough and now it's in our own region and now he said no. and no he said not what i grew up ration and now you say you

know for shortages and now he's in now you have a huge majority of this without saying that see we want change and we want change you want to go peacefully we want change in order to have a street election and we want change because these people these routine cannot last any more any longer than see and what is happening here is that you have actually a. true. reading this situation because what he saw happening here you are not only the us you have most of. you how can i say we won't change the only leverage what right does canada have to say about the fate of venezuela me or whatever and i don't know what it is now we have to have demands ok john i mean let me let me hear what i want for equal time for everyone i told that before we started the recording here let's go to dan right now

don. how is this a regime change playing out. because it seems to me because of the fiasco over the weekend on the bridge which was filmed by so many people and it was quite obvious who incited the violence there but then you have within the same news cycle the rhetoric is increased the you know they always say that you know all options are on the table here is this something that do you think should happen could happen and certainly it shouldn't and why should they listen to someone that is. under the constitution of venezuela is a nobody still ok you know it does trump want to risk his reelection fortunes on and on another failed regime change expedition that we saw all through the middle east for the last two decades go ahead done well i'll go into the details of this later but there are billions of assets of venezuela's that are in litigation in u.s. courts with

a variety of multinational corporations attempting to seize them and having the u.s. recognize someone under their control as president means that he can walk into the court basically and stipulate to whatever the other side wants and release those assets to these multinational corporations i'll get to that more well later i want to speak about though the rhetoric with chris we have marco rubio holding up a picture of a murdered gadhafi. if you think about it libya played pretty much the same role with africa that venezuela was played in latin america for the last twenty years helping to organize it helping to fund its own independence and build you know beautiful defense of their sovereignty standing up together etc and gadhafi that was his crime but what gaddafi did when he took off the power of sixty nine was say one of the poorest countries in the world and left it a middle class clown true where everyone there own their own homes people there were comfortable free education free healthcare etc those are not people that go

out into the street and yet we see a picture of him held up by rubio as a threat to me now what rubio needs to know is that there are also people that are like him greedy little money grabbing people who go after other people's assets to steal them and there are photographs of their fate also the picture of mosul leni i think is something that someone needs to put a look you know ok so ok and show him how he treats people yeah you know and i think marco rubio really embarrassed himself with that but that. comes because of hubris here let me go back to geneva. let's talk about the opposition here is it still is fractious is it was before because we had i said talk about elections well it seems that the opposition is boycotting any kind of dialogue the government has asked for repeat it really. met with silence here and in the last election they boycotted so what i mean what kind of democratic credentials does the opposition

have if they don't want to engage in talks or even participate in an election go ahead in geneva not very believable when i was in then as well and november december two thousand and seventeen i spoke with members of the national assembly of the opposition they common as the chamber of commerce etc on some are feeling that they have the. our conception of what venezuela is supposed to be and that socialism is simply not part of it and therefore they are not interested in daniel in dialogue as you know the former spanish. prime minister oh yes and we see you know that or conduct it for two years or years yeah or negotiation face to face of the opposition together with the

government when there were three or ambassadors supporting the opposition three ambassadors of latin american supporting the government in any event on the sixth of february two thousand aiding there was a reasonable compromise i published. our agreement in my report to the you when our human rights council and what happened is that the phone rang and the whole you about has bet the order not the enemy so don't sign so he didn't say i know i have. the more it you know all mechanism proposed by mexico and europe way although it's a lovely idea and i very much believe in mediation it takes two to tango or take as if it can get i think igs exactly here let me let me i want to go i want to go back to isaac here because it's two against one and i want to be fair here i think it's a venezuelan yourself i mean would you like to see i'm an american led military

intervention into your country go ahead and are not what i would like to see is a peaceful piece of fortunately we have a regime that is not ready to accept we have a creamy not redeemed venezuela what you're describing as a socialist who show this yes it's not the real what we have here is an article general trafficking we have people trafficking we call it the south atlantic where you talk about this whole. what's talking about all these assets and all these issues now then this will end kompany such as spending. in the ways it's because china has decided to confiscate it these these. that's the problem and you know this. when i say putting all due respect this interim president he said he wants to compensated i mean is it a thief stealing from i mean that's the reality and it's

a logic of this go ahead i say keep going keep going keep going i mean here i mean a bad day destroyed i mean. including rough i don't need it baby troy but it is that's why we went from treat on five mediocre bar be the fortune to a situation now that barely. uses barely one on me to borrow the eight that was a drop of oil prices well wasn't it no you're not royalty. yes exactly the case of russia that's still the case of saudi arabia is still even in the case of the u.s. i mean come on i know it's called the global price drought everybody wants her. with her the most you know i would have i would argue ok all right gentlemen i'm going to have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on venezuela

stay with our to. the students we came here where you were before you came here when you live well death row and in many u.s. states capital punishment is still practiced convicted prisoners can spend years waiting for execution but most of the time the victims' families they are very much in favor of the death but there are some people because of what they do have given up the right to live among us. somebody's been proven innocent yes on death row and how many more exonerations is it going to take before we as a society realize that this is not working and we actually do something about.

you know world big partisan movies a lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. i've been saying the numbers mean something they've mattered the us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime stamping each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent in the world markets closed thirty percent some with four hundred to five hundred

three per second per second and when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars ai industrial park but don't let the numbers overrule. the only number you need to remember is whom but. what politicians do anything. they put themselves on the line and they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure more some want to be wrestled. to the right to be trusted to survive when the full story in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the water. country has gone into a nihilistic fever i think i got a kick. out the traveling across america what makes america take the show

the genius. of america this is a point which. we only just this. morning. we're starting last with. we're going to head into the swamp we're going into the belly that the i think i want to leave now getting more and. maybe play the end of this. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter about trying to we're discussing venezuela. ok let me go back to don in new york. dawn knows me very well and of course my

viewers do and i'm a very conservative person and i'm not a very big friend of socialism as it has been practiced in the world everyone knows that having said that don and i'm not being an apologist chavez but i think it's pretty clear to say that a lot of people were in franchised in every single possible way in venezuela i mean before chavez the literacy rate was low and now it's almost universal i am not praising chavez i'm praising those programs all right so it seems to me that there's millions and millions of in his wayland's that are invested in a future that was being built under a socialist government the socialist government has made some very big big mistakes and i always look at corruption ok however my point is here is that you have a population that is vested in a future for venezuela when they didn't have that opportunity before go ahead. yeah beginning with living indoors since chavez there has been to what i have million

two and a half million apartments built for people who before had to live in our goals that's in a country of about twenty five million people that's a huge accomplishment under the conditions that we just heard described in terms of oil production which by the way certainly the u.s. sanctions that have been imposed on venezuela have had an impact as well as the litigation trying to tie up the resources of venezuela in the u.s. courts like citgo have had an impact on venezuela's entire or oil industry but there are people who were materially invested because their lives are much better than they were before and they comprise a little better than half on on election day they comprise between forty and fifty five percent depending on the election over the last you know period since the one nine hundred ninety eight so you have people who have an opinion about this who feel very strongly i would just say also when you have aerial views of the

competing rallies yeah go on in venezuela right now you have a good idea about that because you have a million people that show up from a doro and tens of thousands that show up for the opposition ok i say i should give i see i was i see what i was ignitions are on the ground to give the other prison to give the other position i will introduce the question here isaac. reflect upon what you have heard and are you for i have you been a supporter of these sanctions against your country and do you support new sanctions because it doesn't seem i haven't finished my question it doesn't seem to have had much impact on the elites because well sanctions rarely do go ahead i think and. first of all this time since i mean these are. actually outside assistance. and violent and by the raiders of human rights that's so. no they're for using. that if so why because you want these assets to

be transferred to the least you can recall or oh one way you go in order to. i mean that's the first thing i'm talking about the sanctions if you want to talk about the sanctions and. you know i have my mom eighty seven years all leaving. she was in the hospital last week and she had to take. an antibiotic for an inspection and she couldn't find it and she asked someone he said the and. i'm going to tell you in all that we have powers short to just eat get agca every day my sister leaching downtown. has power shortages every day and these lack of mitigation and the well that but is that because of sanctions or is that because you're saying. you know i don't know all this is because we have a failed state we ok i see her i see i see i see after i see how i've

given you more than i say being fair what i warned everyone before the recording please don't talk the talk over people you were given your time slot alfred you were you raised your hand like a good like a schoolboy wanting to inject something go ahead and you're a gentleman with the bow tie i can't resist go ahead alfred well peter when i went through and as who had i thought like i say i thought now socialism as a failed model and it's all my daughter as well now i spend an enormous times studying the think years studying for instance the book by. your law mine always seemed really their medical study articles and i read in the morning the people i went the good articles by mark advised by. those written a couple of very clever books on venezuela and i am persuaded today that obviously

. in socialism there are too many idle logs and not enough technocrats and you knew the need technocrats but the real crisis is a direct result of the economic war and the economic war did not start yesterday the economic war started in one thousand nine hundred nine is been twenty years ago anomic war there's been financial blockade and for instance when the government has tried to buy insulin you hundred transactions start by the banks because it will not transfer the seven and a half million dollars necessary to purchase insulin or to purchase antiretroviral drugs back in november said a dozen seventeen when i was there there was a malaria outbreak in the amazon region. mother wants to buy and in malaria medicine from colombia colombia says look you have to go and buy it in india and roll it in so the question is here the cost of the crime ok the cars are ok how

fred alfred you know because of your good behavior isaac has raised his hand if he would like to jump in isaac would you like to respond to what alfred said going you're going to you're going to like to. i'm sure the problem here is that we have a real date on a will to basic things to people and i want to talk about these callers write whatever a book on this when i'm talking about my family their marriage i'm not talking about abstractions about the eight hour or so i'm talking about the real life people when you have almost sure me then this when i'm screen that country you know that they want to go there because they like to eat then this will be one to our albeit hard shoes you know going to go along we. know it's

because there are little care situation but i know what i say when i said you know what there's one way to kind of result hang on don everyone's raising their hand that's great i just wanted to say something to isaac then i will go directly to dan here that's why we have elections ok and if the opposition doesn't want to participate in elections then then really then you're saying that you give your you're giving way and you've given way and that and that's what you get is a result here and it's since the opposition hardly can speak to itself before all this and now they won't speak to anyone for a negotiated end of this and this is what the government has been saying don you've been very patient i have to give paired. because they consider themselves still a socialist and a communist state with chinese characteristics. and i have to say that it's important for people to. keep in mind this thing that has to do with venezuela's assets being you know at the dock in the us courts and that the whoever

ends up being the president recognized by the u.s. courts as president of venezuela will be free to dispose of these we're talking about one point three billion dollars for christology international over a gold mine contracts for example you have done well i don't know if you're going to have dollars i'm talking about it would fill up your training you bring up a very good point but what if it is why don't guy can't get back into venezuela is he just going to sit on all the wealth of venezuela in a plush palatial new york apartment is he going to run the country there i mean my goodness is that mazy alford you wanted to know what he would be the i mean he wouldn't he would be a billionaire in exile maybe that's not a bad option for him alfred going you know i want to get i want to get everyone paratime alfred go ahead i think we all agree that we want genuinely to help then as well in a lot of crisis how to do it i think through mediation i think the amount that we

know mechanism is a good idea i think and the new group that is his proposal to offer yes the united nations good offices is good. air our high commissioner has been or we surely invited to visit the country i think all of these are good initiatives we have to calm down and we have to go back to the u.n. charter that prohibits the threat off and the use of force we have to go back to the oil yes charter i read you article nineteen of the oil as well yes charter that's it's no they or group of state has the right to him to remain directly or indirectly for any reason whatever in the internal affairs that article twenty knows they may use or encouraged. the use of corporate sent measures of an economic or political character in order to thwart the sucker and will again others. i gotta

jump in i want to make sure everyone gets one more word in before we end our isaac in ottawa go us really about the charter of the organization of american states that's what you owe us sixty one because they interfere in the venezuelan affairs you know they fail by invading although beach in this way and they say it with a good read a minister in a roll with. the greek elected president you know won't do what i'm going to. write like right wing. ok let me tell you no thing about thirty let me tell you not fair elections mate to any eighteen got to have a fair elections when you band can be they strong the opposition to run when you have kindly they lie and look all of the locals in indonesia when you are in to go back to run your little however as i presume you have. going to wasn't elected

to anything i think bricklayer things out for the interim president or not so i was a stand in wrong all right you are easy he's a bit he's a representative who was elected even in to share election that we had because the opposition fought for the outer election white goal was elected as a member of the going to school an argument and he was elected president of the prince went on parliament and according to the and when i'm going to do so when you're all right and you look at it that is that is one interpretation and gentlemen we have run out of time i want to thank my guests in new york geneva and in ottawa and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our teeth see you next time and please remember. crosstalk.

when lawmakers manufactured sentenced him to public wealth. when the room in clusters project themselves. with the final merry go round lifts only the one percent. that's life we can all middle of the room six. rooms in the new. world.

war. all my dough for an hour sixteen months on a subdued you know. just far and up dollar off former isis fighters and boarding a philippine naval ship. larry. by the way of the not for me ned sounding name that lives. just far on top dollar still don't know what's waiting for them. this is what. we do i am a lucky. man but that was how i can't take it out on the amount i am no more.

war. what politicians do. who put themselves. on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president and should. somehow want to be rich. but you'd like to be the person that's like that before three of them or can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters of my. first city. never ever. give up let. me. get that up but god nobody's. going to do your little enough. job of it i. hope it isn't going to shoot me when the.

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