ships including five elite athletes in a joint operation against what we say is a global doping you know. my colleague kevin owen is in the studio next hour with today's top stories coming up the crosstalk looks at whether washington's venezuela strategy is making any headway. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle trumpeting ministrations attempts to impose regime change on venezuela appear to be faltering the self-proclaimed interim president though how to gain much traction this may this may explain the administration's escalating rhetoric after all we are told the military option is still on the table.

across talking venezuela i'm joined by my guest down the bar in new york he's an anti-war activists and host of a daily radio program in geneva we have desires he is a professor of law at geneva school of diplomacy and a former u.n. independent expert on the promotion of democratic and equitable international order and in ottawa we cross to isaac know him he is a venezuelan canadian professor at the university of ottawa all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alfred first in geneva and congratulate him on his report that he presented to the united nations i thought it was very enlightening i wish more people would read it particularly in the media and maybe in the american political class why does the united states feel it is it incumbent upon itself to fix the problems of venezuela no one denies venezuela has a lot of problems but why should an outside power like the united states that has

a very checkered and i'm being very polite here checkered history and meddling in latin america so i mean why is the trump administration and of all people elliott abrams appointed to fix venezuela. well you know stephen cantor's book overthrow and william bloom bloom's book. killing hope it is an american tradition to tell latin america to apply what we call the monro doctrine and we have a long history he says and the iran contra affair need. panama grenada haiti etc we have been changing governments all the time participating in the coup against. in. our absolute this is nothing

new i mean the united states is hedging on and it's like to deal with latin america as colonies of course venezuela is after all an incredibly rich country with the largest oil reserves with enormous gold reserves on reserves and. coltan reserves so. it's a bonanza ok on the case but it's american so right now for it so it's so it's just an asset play let me go to i sit here in ottawa i think it is. and it's very open unlike you know other of force regime change in the last two decades or so this is ministration is very open that it really wants to overthrow the government impose its own guy somebody that was of hardly known even within the country how do you think this forced imposed regime change is going because over the weekend it looked like it looked like

a farce over the weekend go ahead it in ottawa. while this is not that you is trying to ease about when it's going to society saying you know he's an r. and all you know why don't you know you know a track record and. is it not what i grew up ration and you say you know for shortages and now he's in now you have a huge majority saying that see we want change and we want change you want to go peacefully we want change in order to create election and we want change because these people these routine cannot last any more any longer than see and what is happening here is that you have actually. the true. reading this situation because what is happening here you are not only in the u.s. you have most of. canada saying we want change

the only leverage what right does canada have to say about the fate of venezuela me whatever i don't know what it is now we have to have demands ok don i mean let me let me or what i want for equal time for everyone i told that before we start the recording here let's go to don right now don. how is this a regime change playing out because it seems to me because of the fiasco over over the weekend on the bridge which was filmed by so many people and it was quite obvious who incited the violence there but then you have within the same news cycle the rhetoric is increased to you know they always say that you know all options are on the table here is this something that do you think should happen could happen and certainly it shouldn't and why should they listen to someone that is. under the constitution of venezuela as a nobody still ok you know it does trump want to risk his reelection fortunes

on and on another failed regime change expedition that we saw all through the middle east for the last two decades go ahead done. well i'll go into the details of this later but there are billions of assets of venezuela's that are in litigation in the us courts with a variety of multinational corporations attempting to seize them and having the u.s. recognize someone under their control as president means that he can walk into the court basically and stipulate to whatever the other side wants and release those assets to these multinational corporations i'll get to that more well later i want to speak about though the rhetoric with because we have marco rubio holding up a picture of a murdered gadhafi. if you think about it libya play pretty much the same role that africa that venezuela has played in latin america for the last twenty years helping to organize it helping to fund its own independence and build you know beautiful

defense of their sovereignty standing up together etc and gadhafi that was his crime but what gaddafi did when he took off the power in sixty nine was said one of the poorest countries in the world and left it a middle class clown true where everyone there own their own homes people there were comfortable free education free health care etc those are not people that go out into the street and yet we see a picture of him held up by rubio as a threat to me now what rubio needs to know is that there are also people that are like him greedy little money grabbing people who go after other people's assets to steal them and there are photographs of their fate also the picture of mosul leni i think is something that someone needs to put a logo ok so ok and show him how he treats people yeah you know and i think marco rubio really embarrassed himself with that but that. comes because of hubris here let me go back to the geneva alfred let's talk about the opposition here is it

still is fracture is is it was before because we had i said talk about elections well it seems that the opposition is boycotting any kind of dialogue the government has asked for. and met with silence here and in the last election they boycotted so what i mean what kind of democratic credentials does the opposition have if they don't want to engage in talks or even participate in an election go ahead in geneva not very believable. when i was in then as well in the lambert december two thousand and seventeen i spoke with the members of the national assembly of the opposition off a comment of the chamber of commerce etc some while feeling that they have their conception of what venezuela is supposed to be and that socialism is simply not part of it and therefore they are not interested in genuine

dialogue as you know the former spanish. prime minister oh yes and we see you know that are conducted for two years or years yep the negotiation of face to face of the opposition together with the government when there were three or ambassador of supporting the opposition three ambassadors of latin american supporting the government in any event on the sixth of february two thousand aiding there was a reasonable compromise i published. our agreement in my report to the new when the human rights council well what happened is that the phone rang and the whole you about to get the order not the enemy so don't sign so he didn't say i know i have. both still the more if you know all

mechanism proposed by mexico and europe way although it's a lovely idea and i very much believe in mediation it takes two to tango or take and if it can't i think igs exactly here let me let me i want to go i want to go back to isaac here because it's two against one and i want to be fair here i think answer venezuelan yourself i mean would you like to see i'm an american led military intervention into your country go ahead and are not what i would like to see is a peaceful. fortunately we have a regime that is not ready to accept we have a creamy not redeem venezuela what you're describing as a source which will show this yes it's not the real thing what we have here is an article general trafficking we have people trafficking we call it the south atlantic where you talk about this whole. what's talking about all these assets and all these issues that then this will end kompany such as. have in the way it's

because china has decided to confiscate it these these are. you know this. when i say probably all due respect this interim president he said he wants to complicated i mean is it a thief stealing from i mean that's the reality and it's a logic of this go ahead i say keep going keep going keep going i mean here i mean a bad day destroyed i mean. including ralph i don't need a day he truly believes that that's why we went from treat on five mediocre viral the before charice to a situation now that barely look at this early uses barely one on me to borrow the eight that was a drop of oil prices well wasn't it anymore not royalty. yes exactly

the case of russia that's still the case of saudi arabia is still even in the case of the u.s. i mean come on i know it's called the global price drought everybody wants her. with her the most you know i would have i would argue ok all right gentlemen i'm going to have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on venezuela stay with r.t. . country has gone into a nihilistic fever i think and you got to hit the road and get out to traveling across america but what makes america take the charlatans the genius of.

america europe this is a weak point from which alan is done so we always are on the courageous and. home. we're starting last with. we're going to head into the swamp we're going into the belly that the i think i want to leave now doesn't get any more. maybe. that is. the will forward to return to the unrestrained nuclear competition of the cold war that was the plea made by the u.n. secretary general early in this week with the u.s. pulling out of the i.n.f. treaty and russia rolling out new nuclear weaponry should we be more worried about the weapons themselves or the people who have the codes.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter about to mind you were discussing venezuela. ok let me go back to don in new york. dawn knows me very well and of course my viewers do and i'm a very conservative person and i'm not a very big friend of socialism as it has been practiced in the world everyone knows that having said that don and i'm not being an apologist chavez but i think it's pretty clear to say that a lot of people were in franchised in every single possible way in venezuela i mean before chavez the literacy rate was low and now it's almost universal i am not praising chavez i'm praising those programs all right so it seems to me that there's millions and millions of in his wayland's that are invested in

a future that was being built under a socialist government the socialist government has made some very big big mistakes and i always look at corruption ok however my point is here is that you have a population that is vested in a future for venezuela when they didn't have that opportunity before go ahead down . yeah beginning with living indoors since chavez there has been to want to have a million two and a half million apartments built for people who before had to live in our goals that's in a country of about twenty five million people that's a huge accomplishment under the conditions that we just heard described it in terms of oil production which by the way certainly the u.s. sanctions that have been imposed on venezuela have had an impact as well as the litigation trying to tie up the resources of venezuela in the u.s. courts like citgo have had an impact on venezuela's entire or oil industry but

there are people who were materially invested because their lives are much better than they were before and they comprise a little better than half on on election day they comprise between forty and fifty five percent depending on the election over the last you know period since the one nine hundred ninety eight so you have people who have an opinion about this who feel very strongly i would just say also when you have aerial views of the competing rallies yeah go on in venezuela right now you have a good idea about that because you have a million people that show up from a doro and tens of thousands that show up for the opposition ok i say i should give i see i was i see what i was ignitions are on the ground to give the other prison to give the other position i will introduce the question here isaac. reflect upon what you have heard and are you for i have you been a supporter of these sanctions against your country and do you support new sanctions because it doesn't seem i haven't finished my question it doesn't seem to

have had much impact on the elites because well sanctions rarely do go ahead i think in. some of the times i mean these are. actually outside assistance. and violin and viola raiders of human rights that's so. now there are four using. that if so why because you want these assets to be transferred to the least you can recall or one where you go in order to but i mean that's a different thing and talking about the sanctions if you want to talk about the sanctions and people you know i have my mom eighty seven years all leaving. she was in the hospital last week and she had to take. an antibiotic for any section and she couldn't find it and she asked someone he said. i'm going to tell you and all that we have powers short to just eat get agca every day

my sister leaching downtown can act has power shortages every day and these lack of mitigation and the well that but is that because of sanctions or is that because you're saying. you know i don't know all this is because we have a failed state we've ok i see her i see i see i see it after i see how i've given you more than i say being fair what i warned everyone before the recording please don't talk the talk over people you were given your time slot alfred you were you raised your hand like a good like a schoolboy wanting to inject something go ahead and you're a gentleman with the bow tie i can't resist go ahead alfred well peter when i went through and as who had i thought like i say i thought now socialism as a failed model and it's all my daughter as well now i spend an enormous times studying the think years studying for instance the book by pass quietly now you're

now mine always seemed really there america or. articles that i read in the morning the people i went the articles by mark advised by. those written a couple of very clever books on venezuela and i am persuaded today that obviously . in socialism there are too many idle logs and not enough technocrats and you newt need technocrats but the real crisis is a direct result of the economic war and the economic war did not start yesterday the economic war started in one thousand nine hundred nine is been twenty years ago anomic war there's been financial blockade and for instance when the government has tried to buy insulin you have hundred transactions start by the banks because they will not transfer the seven hour million dollars necessary to purchase insulin or

to purchase antiretroviral drugs back in november says a result and seventeen when i was there there was a malaria outbreak in the amazon region. murder wants to buy and in malaria medicine from colombia colombia as has low you have to go and buy it in india and roll it in so the question is here the horrors of the crime ok the cars are ok how alfred alfred you know because of your good behavior isaac has raised his hand and he would like to jump in isaac would you like to respond to what alfred said going you're going to you're going to lead to. the problem here is that we have a real heat on me will to basic things to people and i want to talk about these callers write whatever a book on this when i'm talking about my family. i'm not talking about us traction

about the ada. i'm talking about the real life of people when you have almost surely me going to swing screen that contrary to your claim that they want to live there because they like to eat then this will be one to our all being higher choose you know going to go along with. you're not you know is because there are legal case situation but i know what i say but i think you know what there's one way to kind of result hang on down everyone's raising their hand that's great i just want to say something that isaac then i will go directly to dan here that's why we have elections ok and if the opposition doesn't want to participate in the elections then then really then you're saying that you give your you're giving way and you've given way and that and that's what you get is a result here and since the opposition hardly can speak to itself before all this and now they won't speak to anyone for

a negotiated end of this and this is what the government has been saying don you've been very patient i have to give fair time to everyone don go ahead. very quickly first that the beginning of this if socialism is such a failed experiment what is china. because they consider themselves still a socialist and a communist state with chinese characteristics. you know i have to say that it's important for people to keep in mind this thing that has to do with venezuela's assets being you know at the dock in the us courts and that the whoever ends up being the president recognized by the u.s. courts as president of venezuela will be free to dispose of these we're talking about one point three billion dollars for christology international over a gold mine contracts for example you have to. go into dollars down to it would fill up you drain and you bring up

a very good point but what if it is why don't guy can't get back into venezuela is he just going to sit on all the wealth of venezuela in a plush palatial new york apartment is he going to run the country there i mean my goodness is that maybe alfred you want to deny what he would be the i mean he wouldn't he would be a billionaire in exile maybe that's not a bad option for him alfred going you know i want to get i want to get everyone paratime alfred go ahead i think we all agree that we want genuinely to help then as well in a. crisis how to do it i think through mediation i think the month that we know mechanism is a good idea i think on the new group that is his proposal to offer these united nations good offices is good. to live there our high commissioner has been or recently invited to visit a country i think all of these are good initiatives we have to calm down and we have to go back to the u.n.

charter that prohibits the direct off and the use of force we have to go back to the oil. yes charter i read you article nineteen of the oil as well yes john and since no state or group of state has the right to him to remain directive or enter a plea for any reason whatever in the internal affairs a state article or twenty knows they may use or encourage the use of corporate sent measures of an economic or political character in order to force the sun and will again others. i gotta jump in i want to make sure everyone gets one more word in before we end our isaac and auto argo are just really about the charter of the organization of american states that's why you are scale sixty one because they interfere in dennis when affairs you know they fail by invading although beach. and they say it when they get read a minister in a role with. the great elected president you know won't do what i got in.

that right like right wing i mean it's. ok let me tell you know a thing about thirty. fair elections me twenty eight and you have a fair elections when you band can be the stronger position to run when you have kindly they'd look all of the locals in you know he's the one you are in to go back to run yeah you'll have it as i presume you have why when did i drag and wasn't elected to anything and he proclaimed what i'm selfish i think i'm sure a president or not so i was a stand in wrong or right you are easy if you use a representative who was elected even into a share election that we had because the opposition or the truly extreme white goal was elected as a member of the in

a swell an apartment and he was elected president of the prince went on but i mean and according to. and when i'm going to shoot when you don't know how or i don't use that to get down to the end that is what it is in care british in a gentlemen we've run out of time i want to thank my guests in new york jim event and in ottawa and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our t.v. see you next time and please remember crosstalk. you know we're number one movie capital in united states we all slow number one her way to determine. how many you shall before regime.

which for most. people are you selling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot in order to exclaim good. job you got to act like a lion among other one. piece of the beast so this is the bible that is at the root for. what is do before you came here where did you work before you came here when you live well death row in many us states capital punishment is still practiced convicted prisoners can spend years waiting for execution but most of the time the victims' families they are very much in favor of the death penalty there are some people because of what they did have given up the right to live among us somebody even proven innocent off two years on death row and how many more exonerations is

it going to take before we as a society realize that this is not working and we actually do something about. hello and welcome to the part of the world cannot afford to return to the on the restraint nuclear competition of the cold war that was deeply from the u.n. secretary general earlier this week coming after the american decision to pull out from the i.n.f. treaty and russia's roll out of new nuclear weaponry is there reason to be of war it is not about the nukes than about the people who have their codes well to

discuss that i'm now joined by john miller a professor of political science at ohio state university and senior fellow at the cato institute in washington professor miller it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you nice to be here a few months ago you published an article in foreign affairs magazine the other pretty provoke a tiff tato nuclear weapons don't matter well they seem to matter quite a lot on tony of goods here is the u.n. secretary general and many other high ranking europeans who seem to be quite concerned about moscow and washington split tonsil new arms race in the europe are they deluded or will we just overly anxious i think they do make a lot of difference in terms of things.