the shrinking of the middle class in america and in europe and even saw on the surf ace of economic success of the middle class are shrinking and less people who can really benefit from globalization well let's talk about why that happened as ation clearly has benefited export oriented economies like china or germany much more and much more evenly than import oriented economies including the united states is it really surprising them that they push back against globalization or the current form of globalization with their region eight in america wasn't of balun to occur there you know we see the specter of globalization and the discontent of globalization is especially new as you put it right again america is mostly importing goods from true many folks on both cars and from china fast moving consumer goods and of course america is very strong into tech sector about it lost its manufacturing sector i guess america will never be in the position to revive

its manufacturing sector it's too late it's too late now to build steel mills like in the past we see it this is divisional fruit. and america should focus on technology you believe that the current american administration is making a big mistake trying to rebalance imports and exports and i was starting a trade war with china but also his germany and other european countries and i think this treaty will really lead to the. ultimately even even to an economic crisis but why are you saying it's too late to try to rebalance the distribution of labor around the world because it's not just about jobs it's also about local taxes and in the united states schools local infrastructure off funded by local taxes so if you bring a factory in from overseas and place it somewhere in a high it would have a reply factor all of the community it's not just about you know pleasing the tribes base in terms of giving them jobs but also how. being the local economy in

syria yes of course it would be feasible but i think it's too late because you know the cost in america is just too high it's much more economic to manufacture in china and partly even and surely because germany go to a very performance oriented economy and it's able to churn of cars and other products that for a reasonable price america is not able to do so and the whole american colony actually is spaced on gnome's people are not really putting money aside the saving the domestic saving rate is around twenty percent in comparison it's around forty five percent in china so it will never happen again as in that's a lot scream while of the status quo also seems to be rather an tangible and you can see that by the change of the american political spectrum because it's not just about trump he's opponents on the left people like bernie sanders essentially talking about the same problem all damasio caging the wild but they they have a different way of going about it increasing the taxes on the reach we have these

two ways you find more economically viable well i would always school for like a centrist approach avoiding the very far left and the very far life the right but something in the middle i agree that we have to be fact to the losers of globalization and we have to increase taxes and i'm i'm not looking to communists and i'm not looking into socialism but i believe that we have to create a more inclusive ruled and yes we have to increase taxes always reducing taxes is not helping anybody because we have to build infrastructure our hospitals cannot garden and of course we need tax income for that now you are the chairman of the harassers forum which brings each year leaders from all over the world to talk about those issues and i know that the upcoming mitigate in april is going to be dedicated to quote discussing it. morally decent form of globalization does it mean

that globalization as it stands right now is morally in decent. hosting give us a global meeting in cost price in portugal in early april is around eight hundred participants including four head of states and fifteen ministers and we'll debate the future of globalization and maybe providing a moral compass for it. globalisation lost its moral compass and maybe we have to put more values into the system my personal opinion is we have to strengthen my international multilateral institutions now we are living in a dog eat dog world it's like him loose loose game having always you know action and come to action so we need to put back to the system and we need stronger leadership and better leadership well it's interesting to me that you mentioned the these moral issue because there are there are lots of moralizing about trans economic slogans but again america first making america great again and that's all

dismissed as populism but don't they deserve a substantial serious discussion about. how globalization has essentially been able to free the while from any national affiliation and any social responsibility that comes with it don't you find it striking that globalization is now being discussed in moral terms rather than a canonic terms i agree i think we need a new syria when you go to a business school so if you go to mit and harvard out and stand for what you're learning about series of the past i think we have to adopt our economic models and if talk about the moral compass behind globalization and we have to avoid the lose lose scenario with to avoid also windows scenario us english should always look into dialogue where you can always harmonize our different opinions for we can find compromise and it is end of the day having everybody. inning from globalization so

we needed a new syria and the meat. in april at the closing ben-ari we will propose an action plan how to make it happen well i think you laid out some of your ideas in your article already and you suggested for example dad for globalization to work for the masses while the way it would be you break the cycle of political short termism by extending electoral terms if trump were to take your advice what kind of reaction do you think bob with provoke in the united states you know in europe and us usually we exchange presidents. in a short term mood and. if you look into the chinese system for example it's much more long term oriented i don't even call the russian system in this regard it's more long term oriented and i think we have to extend the term or for presidents and prime ministers in power i'm not saying the trump should stay in touch or

forever of course it's a political decision but i'm saying that in general we need longer term solution lee western prime minister's coming in in the first year just trusting sings maybe in the second year trying to lead on long term strategy and from the sort of to your on is he starting again to sing about re-election so we need to a long term orientation we need to think about the future we have to invest in education have to invest in technology this will the chinese now will lead us in artificial intelligence because if a very long term oriented strategy but mr rich so don't you think that what you're suggesting is there is a major heresy a lot of liberal thinkers suggesting that non democracies and i'm putting it mildly you know russia and china are usually described in different terms suggesting that those countries have something to teach the west well i think we shouldn't teach each other in eyes of the west to china. russian or the other way around but we

have a can learn from each other in maybe the choose a somber and the middle i'm saying that democracy is still the best form of governance but we need to think about democracy in a different room where we can have long term decisions and not just short term actions think about economy when trump of the economy in two years ago or the post in tax cuts of course we have seen an economy grows of three percent but no we are reaching and experiencing a bubble that's not long term economic strategy it's really short term orientation and it's maybe the reason of the feel of the so-called anger sex and model of capitalism now you will mentioned russia before so let me ask one more question about russia and china because trump is sometimes presented as a russian creation but if we look at the comic fundamentals which you mentioned actually before the shrinking of the middle class in the united states the huge trade deficit the and norm s. exacerbation all of wealth inequality speech in the united states is much wider

than in odd their western countries doesn't doesn't at all make a uniquely american and alice than to claim merrick and phenomenon him responding to a unique sav of a factor that globalization has on the united states right it's a very american approach of course keeping government very small it's a very libertarian approach of course and maybe america should not go to the left but the bernie sanders approach from maybe try to copy the north and european model of capitalism what we usually have in sweden denmark norway and in finland here actually democracy and globalization has found the right way you know it's like the middle way a lot of compromise finland for example experienced also always a monthly there are. it's income for everybody and i think that's the way to go or

it's it's a mix between free wheeling capitalism and democracy and maybe a bit more of socialism in here saying the west can indeed learn more from countries like china russia economically that sounds very appealing but do you think it is. reasonable politically do you think it's achievable politically given the level of political polarization in the united states it's just there from the polarization and we can either choose candidates from the very left or we can choose trump and i think the center is kind of disappearing both so i'm the moderated republicans and democrats and i can only hope that the candidate can come up for real united american people and to be. part of the ocean ok well mr ritter we have to take a very short break now but we will get back in just a few moments.

where you were before you came here when you live. in many u.s. states capital punishment is still practiced convicted prisoners can spend years waiting for execution but most of the time the victims' families they are very much in favor of the death penalty there are some people because of what they do have given up the right to live among us some even proven innocent after years on death row and more exonerations is it going to take before we as a society realize that this is not working and we actually do something about. the all.

yes well this is how the truth. my son was doing drugs my nephews was still in drugs my sister just with doing drugs it was like an epidemic of drug abuse america's public enemy number one

in the united states is drug abuse. the users in the prison population. we started treating sick people people who are addicted to these drugs like criminals while i was on the hill. the war on drugs. there are countless numbers of people who are in prison for. for. minor offenders in the drug trade it's a lot watching your children grow up and miss you in waves and say by daddy as you're walking out of a business it's just it doesn't get easy. welcome back to worlds apart. chairman at. mr richard just before the break we study.

talking about how differently countries are affected by a globalization depending on whether they rely more on imports or exports how would that change that definition of free and fair trade and doesn't trump have a point an economic point when he says that what's free trade for china or germany is not necessarily fair trade for the united states. the reason why trump is launching the trade for in china it's definitely linked to his feel that china is not really playing according to the rules in terms of free trade and fair to eat he always believes that the chinese economy is fully supported by the state on company chief loans and also in national interest definitely you know there's some truth to it still very large stayed on companies in china but the current economy grows and the economic miracle of china is mostly due to the private sector companies like. tencent and those are really to stars and i think

trump is here missing the point because already unknown and already today china is very much an open economy was very strong private sector now well we've seen the chinese make some concessions but i think they're pretty modest compared to the american or at least transgressive and says with with china there are people within the trumpet ministration the whole are who take issue not just chinese trade practices but with the entire nature of its economic system as you just pointed out do you think the trumpet ministration will limit itself to just you know tariff and trade concessions or will they go for further will they try to reshape china's entire can all make model well. put an extension to the terrace so we don't really know what's happening i would say it's like a fifty fifty chance that a full fledged trade war is really happening and hopefully there will be some truce

and. finally an agreement but yes it's not only trait it's not only the. deficit america is experiencing but as a whole economic and political model i think the us and trump are identifying china as the next week and then me it's actually not russia it's true. and china is certainly challenging america economically we have such a strong economy in china and i believe that china is a new engine of global economic rose and china but the right economic history you often say in your interviews that china is now dead driver of globalization and i've heard the odds are economists that jazz that the future of capitalism now depends as much on the communist party of china as it historically depended on the democrats or the republicans do you think china has what it needs to drive capitalism in the right direction well when president xi jinping came to warm your

of two years ago he talked about globalization the said china is defending globalization and. president trump is seeing the american policies more retrenching it's more more taken stick view i believe the chinese leadership is very weiss china is experiencing some economic problems right now whole economic roads might be. really be fine to six percent currently is it six point five percent next week actually the n.p.c. the national people's congress is scattering and talking about those economic measures but china is about to change gears. really ever reaching the economy and playing with fiscal measures to reboost the economy providing more loans and deal flow more infrastructure oh. i see that china is on the right track and have the right toolbox you said just

a moment ago that china is defending globalization but it's defending the kind of globalization that you and your only report. by implication called morally indecent that's a very self-serving or china serving form of globalization that does not benefit countries equally do you think the chinese will also have to come to terms that the current model that exists today. will have to be changed well the chinese taking more and more a part in global institution sing about you know the world bank the i.m.f. the i've see. even. international institutions like the a show infrastructure investment development bank and others so they're good global citizens and an order china is no longer isolated and have to take part in global dialogue and part of the whole globalization game they also understand that globalization should be a win win game think about what the chinese are doing in africa and investing heavily in infrastructure heavily investing also in education in africa it's good

for the continent it's good of course for china in the long term as well and i think globalization is always benefit both sides and chinese got the moral compass . and order to do things on their own and changing even all the investment climate in the past foreign investors in china face some difficulties when it came to unfair competition foreign companies had to step to shine bench accompanies have to transfer technology but china is changing his fright now and we will learn more next week when the n.b.c. is meeting about this new china and china's new economy policies now mr ritter i heard you say with regards to try the chinese to do what they do bast that is just sit and wait us presidents as you said come and go the china's leadership space why are you so sure that these and t.

china and to globalisation streak will disappear once trump leaves office because it was there even before him perhaps not so vocally expressed but they did was definitely their use of us always a lot of china beijing in us but also in europe and i think america and europe building something like a chinese war right into. the chinese and trying to limit imports from the chinese what we experience from some of his huawei the chinese tech company really successful fighting these attitude about. america and europe shouldn't do that and . on the long term you know once trumpets gone and a new president is there i think we should. approach to china and find the right models of the run the where we can cooperate and we shouldn't compete. on trade we should always try to be good partners and stop this. now you mentioned europe and i

think europe is a bit in the middle here because politically and militarily it's still associated with the united states but. it cannot make lead benefits globalization in the ways similar to china wheats magnet is likely to prove stronger and do you think europe will remain united as it navigates these competing pools well europe currently in a deep crisis in institutional crisis not only that but the whole. framework of the european union but is saying this it may be crisis leaving leading to this finally europe is redefining it still and europe will be stronger under french german leadership you will be strongly united and china will be a very strong partner if you're already know china is tremendous largest trading partner folks walking for example the german car company has china main market and

many other cerm and european companies as well so yes europe is in between america and china and i think it's a good position that shouldn't really take sites that should work with both sides and we should also include klute russia and i believe it's good to collaborate i'm just repeating my work before we need more. dialogue and we should stop this confrontation well i think that position in the middle is good if you use it smartly but if you look at what's happening in europe inequalities in terms of economic development within the e.u. are still pretty wide there is a growing feeling of resentment in the south against the north there are tensions between the east and the west of europe not only about doing business with china but as you said doing business with russia what would it take for the e.u. to stay together when it cannot make interest of its members i increasingly diverging you're right we see the divergence between the east or west of the north

and a solid strong about this i was i'm very concerned about it to lead him into company might go into a recession maybe in the sort of quarter this year and maybe you know longer economic crisis stricken down the whole european union and italy's not crease crease what experienced ten years ago when the first economic crisis hit was a much smaller of course patient so to say. you know what can be do i think we need more inclusion we have to listen to the talents we have to listen to the eastern europeans we trust congolese seeing it's a western european approach we need to listen to those having issues here and find a united voice i think europe has always been very strong having this united force and we need maybe a new leadership in europe leaders who are to europeans who can sing about you know the continent with strong relationships to america to china and to russia while good leadership is always the best solution for everything they have the question

is where to find it i mean i think there are many countries around the world that are really struggling with on that issue can i ask you something something different though because many people when they talk about those issues they resent globalization and protectionism as if they're totally in incompatible but there are many countries that do both china is both globally. protectionist at the same time so is india so is the united states is it really about these tangent between globalization and protectionism as opposed to they need to redefine the rules of global trade make them accessible fair to everybody and make them reflect the current realities of the global economy and you know i believe that protectionism in some very specific areas is the right thing to do if you think about the farming sector and what many african countries experience right now is that the cultural sector is suffering and they're importing tomatoes and even meat from the

european union so that shouldn't be the case i think we need to some self-sufficiency here especially in the cultural sector but everything should be open everything old should be linked to the division of labor and we need also free movement of people talking about the phenomenon of migration i think my creation is good for countries think about the silicon valley in the u.s. most tech pioneers in the u.s. . first generation or second train operation but mr richard the silicon valley is attracting the cream of the call people who go there on their own the court and who would succeed in any country is it really comparable to a mass and often uncontrolled migration of millions of people whose identities you are not always able to check and host skill fab. is very very different from dot

all of the silicon valley engineers i think we need to. leave a shortage in countries like china many and you know look about the divorce rate in countries like germany italy so we need migration in all levels for the highly educated engineers and in the u.s. but also for those with much less education and. the rich countries of the west have to support. those coming over and help them to find a tree maybe investing also in education in helping them to. sort of ruled shoot together and it shouldn't be a mentality ok mr ritter we have to leave it there i really appreciate your being with us today and sharing your perspective thanks so much for having me thank you and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages. same place same time here on worlds apart.

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to lose. another turbulent week for venezuela both russian and american resolutions to resolve the country's crisis fail i think the un security council will washington's economic pressure prompts caracas to transfer the european h.q. of its main oil firm to moscow. france sees a sixteenth we can straight yellow vest on rest with police resorting to tear gas and water cannon. also this hour u.s. president donald trump and north korean leader kim jong un hold their second summit but fail to.