bad methods of globalization be just as apparent well the globalization is here to stay there's no doubt about it but i think we have to redefine globalization and maybe catalyze the benefits of globalization you put it right to. the anglo-saxon model of capitalism and the globalization eastern crisis even so we have seen an economy crowe's over the last few would take it's not everybody is spending fitting from globalization we see the shrinking of the middle class in america and in europe in even saw on the surf ace does a lot of economic success the middle class is shrinking and less people who can really benefit from globalization well let's talk about why that happened well as ation clearly has benefited export oriented economies like china or germany much more and much more evenly than imports oriented economies including the united states is it really surprising that the pushback against globalization or the

current form of globalization with that region eight in america wasn't at ballan to occur there you know we see the specter of globalization and the discontent of globalization is especially new as you put it right again america is mostly importing goods from germany for example cars and from china fast moving consumer goods and of course america is very strong in the tech sector but it lost its manufacturing sector i guess america will never be in the position to revive its manufacturing sector it's too late it's too late now to build steel mills like in the past we see this is division of ruled over of all why you and america should focus on technology you i believe that the current american administration is making a big mistake trying to rebalance imports and exports and i was starting a trade war with china but also was germany and other european countries and i think this treaty will really lead to the. ultimately. even even to an economic

crisis but why you're saying it's to late to try to rebalance the distribution of labor around the world because it's not just about jobs it's also about local taxes and in the united states schools local infrastructure off funded by local taxes so if you bring a factory in from overseas and place it somewhere in a high it would have a reply fact throughout the community it's not just about you know pleasing the tram's base in terms of giving them jobs but also how being the local economy in syria yes of course it would be feasible but i think it's too late because you know the cost in america is just too high it's much more economic to manufacture in china and partly even and surely because germany go to a very performance oriented economy and it's able to train of cars and other products that for a reasonable price america is not able to do so and the whole american economy actually is spaced on gnome's people are not really putting money aside the saving

the domestic saving rate is around twenty percent in comparison it's around forty five percent in china so it will never happen again i think it's a law scream while it but the status quo also seems to be rather and tangible and you can see that by the change of the american political spectrum because it's not just about trump he's opponents on the left but people like bernie sanders essentially talking about the same problem all domestic aging the well but they they have a different way of going about it increasing the taxes on the reach we each of these two ways you find more economically viable well i would always school for like a centrist approach avoiding a very far left and a very far life the right but something in the middle i agree that we have to be faxed to the losers of globalization and we have to increase taxes and i'm not looking to communists and i'm not looking into socialism but i believe the. we

have to create a more inclusive ruled and yes we have to increase taxes always reducing taxes it's not helping anybody because we have to build infrastructure our hospitals cannot garden and of course we need tax income for that now you are the chairman of the harasses forum which brings each year leaders from all over the world to talk about those issues and i know that the upcoming mitigate in april is going to be dedicated to quote discussing a morally decent form of globalization does it mean that globalization as it stands right now is morally in decent. hosting give us a school meeting in cash price in portugal in early april is around eight hundred participants including four head of states and fifteen ministers and we'll debate the future of globalisation and maybe providing a moral compass for it. globalisation lost its moral compass and maybe we have to put more values into the system my personal opinion is we have to strengthen the

national institutions now we're living in a dog eat dog world it's like them loose loose game having always you know action and come to action so we need to put back to the system and we need stronger leadership and better leadership well it's interesting to me that you mentioned the these moral issue because there are there are lots of moralizing about. economic slogans but again america first making america great again and that's all dismissed as populism but don't they deserve a substantial serious discussion about. how globalization has essentially been able to free the while from any national affiliation and any social responsibility that comes with it don't you find it striking that globalization is now being discussed in moral terms rather than a canonical terms i agree i think we need a new syria when you go to the business. if you go to mit and harvard and stand for

what you're learning about series of the past i think we have to adopt our economic models and if told of all of the moral compass behind globalization and we have to avoid the lose lose scenario with toward or store windows scenario us english should always look into dialogue where you can always harmonize our differing opinions for we can find compromise and it is end of the day having everybody winning from globalization so we need a neat new siri and we meet in christ in april at the closing ben-ari we will propose an action plan on how to make it happen while i think you laid out some of your ideas in your article already and you suggested for example dab for globalization to work for the masses while the way it would be you break the cycle of political short termism by extending electoral terms if trump were to take your advice what kind of reaction do you think god would provoke in the united states

you know in europe and the us usually we exchange presidents. in a short term mood and. if you look into the chinese system for example it's much more long term oriented and i would even call the russian system in this regard it's more long term oriented and i think we have to extend the term or for presidents and prime ministers in power i'm not saying that trump should stay in touch or forever of course it's a political decision but i'm saying that in general we need to longer term suitably western prime ministers coming in in the first year just trusting sings maybe in the second year trying to lead our long term strategy and from the certainty on is he starting again to sing about re-election so we need to a long term orientation really need to think about the future we have to invest in education if to invest in technology this will the chinese know. lead us in

artificial intelligence because if a very long term oriented strategy but mr richter don't you think that what you're suggesting is is a major heresy to a lot of liberal thinkers suggesting done non-democracies and i'm putting it mildly you know russia and china are usually described in different terms suggesting that those countries have something to teach the west. well i think we shouldn't teach each other in eyes of the west to china russia and all the other way around but we have a can learn from each other in maybe the choose a somber in the middle i'm saying that democracy is still the best form of governance but we need to think about democracy in a different room where we can have long term decisions and not just short term actions think about economy when trump of the economy in two years ago or the post in tax cuts of course we have seen an economy grows of three percent but no we are reaching and experiencing

a bubble that's not long term economic strategy it's really short term orientation and it's maybe the reason of the feel of the so-called anglo-saxon model of capitalism now you will mentioned russia before so let me ask one more question about russia and china because trump is sometimes presented as a russian creation but if we look at the comic fundamentals which you mentioned actually before the shrinking of the middle class in the united states the huge trade deficit the and norm s. exacerbation all of wealth inequality speech in the united states is much wider than in odd their western countries doesn't doesn't at all make a uniquely american and merican phenomenon human responding to a unique sav of a factor that globalization has on the united states right it's a very american approach of course keeping government very small it's a very libertarian approach of course and maybe america should not go to the left

but the bernie sanders approach from maybe try to copy the north and european model of capitalism what we usually have in sweden denmark norway and in finland here actually democracy and globalization has found the right way you know it's like the middle way a lot of compromise. finland for example experienced also always a monthly guaranteed income for everybody and i think that's the way to go it's it's a mix between free wheeling capitalism and democracy and maybe a bit more of socialism in here saying the west can indeed learn more from countries like china russia economically that sounds very appealing but do you think it is. reasonable politically do you think it's achievable politically given the level of political polarization in the united states it's just there from the polarization and we can either choose some kind of that's from the very left or we

can choose trump and i think the center is kind of disappearing both the moderated republicans and democrats and i can only hope that a candidate can come up who will unite american people and will be electable by a bald spot of the ocean ok well mr ritter we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next about different clubs on one hand it is logical to go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising. you.

i'm going to talk about football not the or else you think i was going to go. by the way what is it that's like here. life expectancy in america is plummeting if you look at the chart it's shocking to look at almost every other country it's kind of inching up on one side of the chart and then as an outlier is the united states it's way over here and it's all crashing down from the drugs from the having junk food having junk culture having a junk politics and fake news it's all fake and fake doesn't sustain life and you see it in the numbers it's clear. my son doing drugs my nephews was still in drugs my sister just with doing drugs it was

like an epidemic of drug abuse america's public enemy number one in the united states is drug abuse is sort of going after the users in the prison population who are we started treating sick people people who are addicted to these drugs like criminals while i was on the hill. the war on drugs. there are with numbers of people who are in prison for conceivably. for minor minor offenders in the drug trade it's a lot watching your children grow up and miss you in wave and say by day as you're walking out of a business it's just it doesn't get easy. welcome back to worlds apart frank you're going to return chairman as harasses mr richard

just before the break we started talking about how differently countries are affected by globalization depending on whether they rely more on imports or exports how would that change that definition of free and fair trade and doesn't trump have a point an economic point when he says that what's free trade for china or germany is not necessarily fair trade for the united states. the reason why trump is launching the trade for in china it's definitely linked to his feel that china is not really playing according to the rules in terms of free trade and fair to eat he always believes that the chinese economy is fully supported by speed on company chief loans and also in national interest definitely you know there's some truth to it still very large stayed on companies in china but the current economic cross and the economic miracle of china is mostly due to the private sector companies like

polly. or tencent and those are really to stars and i think trump is here missing the point because already in owen already today china is very much an open economy was very strong private sector now well we've seen the chinese make some concessions but i think they're pretty modest compared to the american or at least transgressive and says with with china there are people within the trumpet ministration whole are who take issue not just chinese trade practices but with the entire nature of its economic system as you just pointed out do you think the trump administration will limit itself to just you know tariff and trade concessions or will they go for further will they try to reshape china's entire can all make model well. put an extension to the terrace so we don't really know what's happening i would say it's like a fifty fifty chance that

a full fledged trade war is really happening and hopefully there will be some truce and. finally an agreement but yes it's not only treat it's not only the. deficit america is experiencing but as a whole economic and political model i think the us and trump are identifying china as the next week and then me it's actually not russia it's try. and china is certainly challenging america economically we have such a strong economy in china and i believe that china is a new engine of global economic crowe's and china will write economic history you often say in your interviews that china is now dead driver of globalization and i've heard the ah there economists such as that the future of capitalism now depends as much on the communist party of china as it historically depended on the democrats or the republicans do you think china has what it needs to drive

capitalism in the right direction well when the president xi jinping came to warm your of two years ago he talked about globalization that said china is defending globalization and. president trump is seeing the american policies more retrenching it's more more taken by some instinct view i believe the chinese leadership is very weiss china is experiencing some economic problems right now whole economic roads might be. really be fine to six percent currently is at six point five percent next week actually the n.p.c. the national people's congress is gathering and talking about those economic measures but china is about to change gears. really ever reaching the economy and playing with fiscal measures to reboost the economy providing more loans and deal flow more infrastructure oh. i see that china is on the right track

and i have the right toolbox you said just a moment ago that china is defending globalization but it's defending the kind of globalization that you and your only report. by implication called morally indecent that's a very self-serving or china serving form of globalization that does not benefit other countries equally do you think the chinese will also have to come to terms that the current model that exists today. will have to be changed well the chinese taking more and more parts in global institution singable of you know the world bank the i.m.f. the i've see. even. international institutions like the a show infrastructure investment development bank and others so they're good global citizens and an order china is no longer isolated and have to take part in global dialogue and part of the whole globalization game they also understand that globalization should be a win win game think about what the chinese are doing in africa or the investing

heavily in infrastructure heavily investing also in education in africa it's good for the continent it's good of course for china in the long term as well and i think globalization is always benefit both sides and china scott the moral compass . things on their own and changing even all the investment climate in the past foreign investors in china face some difficulties when it came to unfair competition foreign companies had to step to shine bench a company's have to transfer technology but china has changed it is fright now and people learn more next week when the n.p.c. is meeting about this new china and china's new konami policies that mr ritter i heard you say with regards to try and the chinese should do what they do bast that is just sit and wait us presidents as you said come and go the china's leadership

space why are you so sure that these and t. china antiglobalization streak will disappear once trump leaves office because it was there even before him perhaps not so vocally expressed but the it was definitely there yes of course always a lot of china beijing in us but also in europe and i think america and europe building something like a chinese wall right into. the chinese and trying to limit imports from the chinese what we experience from some of his huawei is the chinese tech company really successful fighting these attitude about. america and europe shouldn't do that and . on the long term you know once trumpets gone and a new president is there i think we should. approach to china and find the right models of the run the where we can cooperate and we shouldn't compete. on trade we

should always try to be good partners and stop this now you mentioned europe and i think europe is a bit in the middle here because politically and militarily it's still associated with the united states but. it cannot make lead benefits globalization in the ways similar to china we magnify is likely to prove stronger and do you think europe will remain united as it navigates these competing pools well europe currently in a deep crisis in institutional crisis not only that but the whole. framework of the european union but as this may be crisis leaving leading to finally europe is redefining it still in europe will be stronger under french german leadership saying you will be strongly united and china will be a very strong part no if you are already know china has tremendous largest trading

partner folks walking for example the german car company has china main market and many other cerm and european companies as well so yes europe is in between america and china and i think it's a good position that shouldn't really take sites that should work with both sides and we should also include klute russia i believe it's good to collaborate i'm just repeating that before we need more. dialogue and we should stop this confrontation well i think that position in the middle is good if you use it smartly but if you look at what's happening in europe inequalities in terms of economic development within the e.u. are still pretty wide there is a growing feeling of resentment in the south against the north there are tensions between the east and the wost of europe not only about doing business with china but as you said doing business with russia what would it take for the e.u. to stay together when it cannot make interest of its members i increasingly

diverging you're right we see the divergence between the east to west the north and a solid strong about the sellers i'm very concerned about italy and italy's economy might go into recession maybe in the sort of quarter this year and maybe you no longer economic crisis stricken down the whole european union and italy's not crease crease what experienced ten years ago when the first economic crisis hit was a much smaller of course patient so to say. you know what can be do i think we need more inclusion we have to listen to the tele and we have to listen to the eastern europeans we trust congolese seeing it's a western european approach we need to listen to those having issues here and find a united voice i think europe has always been very strong having this united force and we need maybe a new leadership in europe leaders who are to europeans who can sing about the united continent with strong relationships to america to china and to russia while

good leadership is always the best solution for everything they have the question is where to find it i mean i think there are many countries around the world that are really struggling with on that issue can i ask you something something different though because many people when they talk about those issues they resent globalization and protectionism as if they are totally in incompatible but there are many countries that do both china is both globally. protectionist at the same time so is india so is the united states is it really about these tensions between globalisation and protectionism as opposed to the need to redefine the rules of global trade make them accessible and fair to everybody and make them reflect the current realities of the global economy you know i believe that protectionism in some very specific areas is the right thing to do if you think about the farming sector and what many african countries experience right now is

a cultural sector is suffering and they're importing tomatoes and even meat from the european union so that shouldn't be the case i think we need to some self-sufficiency here especially in a cultural sector but everything else should be open every single should be linked to the division of labor and we need also free movement of people talking about the phenomenon of my creation i think my creation is good for countries think about the silicon valley in the u.s. most tech pioneers in the u.s. . trying to reason or second train operation but mr richard the silicon valley is attracting the cream of the call people who go there on their own the court and who would succeed in any country is it really comparable to a mass and often uncontrolled migration of millions of people whose identities you

are not always able to check and host skill fab. is very very different from the of the silicon valley engineers i think we need to. leave a shortage in countries like china many and you know look about the divorce rate in countries like germany italy so we need migration in all levels for the highly educated engineers and tech pioneers but also for those with much less education and i think. the rich countries of the west have to support. those coming over and help them to find a tree maybe investing also in education in helping them to. tweet to go what sort of ruled should gather and it shouldn't be a mentality ok mr ritter we have to leave it there i really appreciate your being with us today and sharing your perspective thanks so much for having me thank you and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages. same place same time here on the walls apart.

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it's. another turbulent week for ben as well about russian and u.s. resolutions to resolve the country's crisis fail at the u.n. security council while washington's economic pressure probs caracas to transfer the european h.q. of its maybe a monster. last night i. see the sixteenth weekend of your live us movement unrest with police there resorting to tear gas and water cannon against protesters. in the u.s. the north korean leaders hold their.