as ation is that it lifted millions of people out of poverty and that is undeniable nobody argues but if you happen to be had of a multinational company it would have also benefited your bank account in very very generous ways whereas if you are a blue collar worker who saw his factory closed and a shopping mall opened in its place what did bad if it's of globalization be just as apparent well globalization is here to stay there's no doubt about it but i think we have to redefine globalization and maybe catalyze the benefits of globalization you put it right. the anglo-saxon model of capitalism and the globalization eastern crisis even so we have seen an economy crows over the last few would take it's not everybody is spending fitting from globalization we see the shrinking of the middle class in america and in europe and even saw on the surf ace a lot of economic success the middle class are shrinking and less people who can

really benefit from globalization well let's talk about why that happened as asian clearly has benefited export oriented economies like china or germany much more and much more evenly than imports oriented economies including the united states is it really surprising that that the pushback against globalization or the current form of globalization with the region eight in america wasn't of balun to occur there you know we see the specter of globalization and the discontent of globalization especially in you as you put it right again america is mostly importing goods from germany for example cars and from china fast moving consumer goods and of course america is very strong in the tech sector about it lost its manufacturing sector i guess america never be in the position to revive its manufacturing sector it's too late it's too late now to build steel mills like in the past we see this is division of ruled. why you and america should focus on technology you i believe

that the current american administration is making a big mistake trying to rebalance imports and exports and i was starting a trade war with china but also was germany and other european countries and i think this treaty will really lead to the. ultimately even even to an economic crisis but why you're saying it's too late to try to rebalance the distribution of labor around the world because it's not just about jobs it's also about local taxes and in the united states schools local infrastructure off funded by local taxes so if you bring a factory in from overseas and place it somewhere in a high it would have a reply factor all of the community it's not just about you know pleasing the tribes base in terms of giving them jobs but also how being the local economy in syria yes of course it would be feasible but i think it's too late because you know the cost in america is just too high it's much more economic to manufacture in

china and part of the even and surely because germany go to a very performance oriented economy and it's able to churn of cars and other products that for a reasonable price america is not able to do so and the whole american colony actually is spaced on gnome's people are not really putting money aside the saving the domestic saving rate is around twenty percent in comparison it's around forty five percent in china so it will never happen again i think it's a lot scream while it but the status quo also seems to be rather antenna bill and you can see that by the change of the american political spectrum because it's not just about trump he's opponents on the left people like bernie sanders essentially talking about the same problem of domestic aging the well but they they have a different way of going about it increasing the taxes on the on the reach we each of these two ways you find more economically viable well i would always school. for

like a centrist approach avoiding a very far left and a very far life right but something in the middle i agree that we have to give back to the losers of globalization and we have to increase taxes and i'm not looking to communists and i'm not looking into socialism but i believe that we have to create a more inclusive ruled and yes we have to increase taxes always reducing taxes is not helping anybody because we have to build infrastructure hospitals cannot garden and of course we need tax income for that now you are the chairman of the harassers forum which brings each year leaders from all over the world to talk about those issues and i know that the upcoming mitigate in april is going to be dedicated to quote discussing a morally decent form of globalization does it mean that globalization as it stands right now is morally in dissent. hosting give us

a global meeting in cash crisis in portugal in early april is around eight hundred participants including four heads of states and fifteen ministers and we'll debate the future of globalization and maybe providing a moral compass for it. globalisation lost its moral compass and maybe we have to put more values into the system my personal opinion is we have to strengthen the national institutions now we're living in a dog eat dog world it's like him loose new scheme having always you know action and come to action so we need to put back to the system and we need stronger leadership and better leadership well it's interesting to me that you mentioned the these moral issue because there are there are lots of moralizing about trans economic slogans but again merica first making america great again and that's all dismissed as populism but don't they deserve a substantial serious discussion. about. how global ization has essentially been

able to free the while from any national affiliation and any social responsibility that comes with it don't you find it striking that globalization is now being discussed in moral terms rather than a canonic terms i agree i think we need a new syria when you go to the business school so if you go to mit and harvard out and stand for your gift talk about the moral compass behind globalization and we have to avoid the lose lose scenario with toward or store windows scenario us english should always look into dialogue where you can always harmonize our differing opinions for we can find compromise and at the end of the day having everybody winning from globalization so we needed a new syria and we meet in case in april at the closing ben-ari we will propose an action plan how to make it happen well i think you laid out some of your ideas in your article already and you suggested for example dab for globalization to work

for the masses one way would be you break the cycle of political short termism by extending electoral terms if trump were to take your advice what kind of reaction do you think bob with provoke and the united states you know in europe and us usually we exchange presidents. in a short term mood and motor and if you look into the chinese system for example it's much more long term oriented i don't even call the russian system in this regard it's more long term oriented and i think we have to extend the term or for presidents and prime ministers in power i'm not saying that trump should stay in total forever of course it's a political decision but i'm saying that in general we need longer term suitably western prime ministers coming in in the first year just trusting sings maybe in the second year. we're trying to lead our long term strategy and from the sort of

to your on is he starting again to sing about reelection so we need to a long term orientation we need to think about the future we have to invest in education have to invest in technology this will the chinese now will lead us in artificial intelligence because if a very long term oriented strategy but mr richter don't you think that what you're suggesting is there is a major heresy a lot of liberal thinkers suggesting that non democracy is and i'm putting it mildly you know russia and china are usually described in different terms suggesting that those countries have something to teach the west. well i think we shouldn't teach each other and eyes of the west to china russia and all the other way around but we have a can learn from each other and maybe the true somber in the middle i'm saying that democracy is still the best form of governance but we need to think about democracy in a different room where we can have long term decisions and not just short term actions

think about economy when trump of the economy in the two years ago or the post in tax cuts of course we have seen an economy grows of three percent but no we are reaching and experiencing a bubble that's not long term economic strategy it's really short term orientation and it's maybe the reason of the feel of the so-called anger sex and model of capitalism now you will mentioned russia before so let me ask one more question about russia because trump is sometimes presented as a russian creation but if we look at the comic fundamentals which you mentioned actually before the shrinking of the middle class in the united states the huge trade deficit the and nor mess exacerbation all of wealth inequality speech in the united states is much wider than an odd their western countries doesn't doesn't at all make a uniquely american and alice than to claim merrick and phenomenon him responding

to a unique sav of f.x. that globalization has on the united states right it's a very american approach of course keeping government very small it's a very libertarian approach of course and maybe america should not go to the left but the bernie sanders approach that maybe try to copy the norse and european model of capitalism what we usually have in sweden denmark norway and in finland here actually democracy and globalization has found the right way you know it's like the middle way a lot of compromise. finland for example experienced also always a monthly guaranteed income for everybody and i think that's the way to go it's it's a mix between free wheeling capitalism and democracy and maybe a bit more of socialism in here saying the west can indeed learn more from countries like china russia economically that sounds very appealing but do you

think it is. reasonable politically do you think it's achievable politically given the level of political polarization in the united states it's just different polarization and we can either choose candidates from the very left or we can choose trump and i think the center is kind of disappearing both the moderated republicans and democrats and i can only hope that a candidate can come up who will unite american people and will be electable by a part of the ocean ok well mr ritter we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm showbusiness i'll see that.

when i see images and hear what they're doing. i see people who are afraid now see these young men and some women and white supremacist and i see the. movie. they have the whole on it is the color of their skin that's all they have going for themselves their white skin. you know world's big partners. lot and conspiracy. it's time to wait to dig deeper to hit the stories that made history media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

welcome back to worlds apart with frank you're going to return chairman as harasses mr richard just before the break we started talking about how differently countries are affected by a globalization depending on whether they rely more on imports or exports how would that change that definition of free and fair trade and doesn't trump have a point an economic point when he says that what's free trade for china or germany is not necessarily fair trade for the united states. the reason why trump is launching the trade for in china it's definitely linked to his feel that china

is not really playing according to the rules in terms of free trade and fair to eat he always believes that the chinese economy is fully supported by the state on company chief loans and also in national interest definitely you know there's some truth to it still very large stayed on companies in china but the current economic growth and the economic miracle of china is mostly due to the private sector companies like. tencent and those are really to stars and i think trump is you're missing the point because already in the one already today china is very much open a commie was very strong private sector now well we've seen the chinese make some concessions but i think they're pretty modest compared to the american or at least transgressive and says with with china there are people within the trumpet ministration the whole are who take issue not just chinese trade practices but with

the entire nature of its economic system as you just pointed out do you think the trump administration will limit itself to just you know tariff and trade concessions well. put an extension to the terrorists so we don't really know what's happening i would say it's like a fifty fifty chance that a full fledged trade war is really happening and hopefully there will be some truce and. finally an agreement but yes it's not only treat it's not only the. deficit america is experiencing but the whole economic and political model i think the us and trump are identifying china as the next week and then me it's actually not russia it's china and china it's certainly challenging america economically. such a strong economy in china and i believe that china is a new engine of global economic rose and china will write economic history you

often say in your interviews that china is now dead driver of globalization and i've heard the odd their economies such as that the future of capitalism now depends as much on the communist party of china as it historically depended on the democrats or the republicans do you think china has what it needs to drive capitalism in the right direction well in president xi jinping came to him the american policies more retrenching it's more more taking view i believe the chinese leadership is very weiss china is experiencing some economic problems and whole economic roads might be. really be fine to six percent growth is at six point five percent and next week actually the n.p.c. the national people's congress is scattering and talking about those economic measures but china is about to change gears. really ever reaching the economy and playing with fiscal measures to reboost the economy providing more

on the right track and the right toolbox you said just a moment ago that china is defending globalisation but it's defending the kind of globalisation that you and your only report. by implication called morally indecent that's a very self-serving or china serving form of globalization that does not benefit aba countries equally do you think the chinese will also have to come to terms that the current model the parts in global institutions sing about you know the world bank the i.m.f. the i've see. even. international institutions like the a show infrastructure investment development bank and others so they're good global citizens and an order china is no longer isolated and have to take part in global dialogue and. the whole globalization game they also understand that globalization should be a win win game think about what the chinese are doing in africa and investing

heavily in infrastructure heavily investing also in education in africa it's good for the continent it's good of course for china in the long term as well and i think globalization is always benefit both sides and chinese got the moral compass . in order to do things on their own and changing even though the investment climate in the past foreign investors in china faced some difficulties when it came to unfair competition and foreign companies had to step to shine bench accompanies have to transfer technology but china is changing his fright now and we will learn more next week when the n.p.c. is meeting about this new china and china's new economy policies mr ritter i heard you say with regards to try the chinese to do what they do bast that is just sit and wait us presidents as you said come and go the china's leadership space why are

you so sure that these and t. china antiglobalization streak will disappear once trump leaves office because it was there even before him perhaps not so vocally expressed but they did was definitely their use of us always a lot of china beijing in us but also in europe and i think america and europe building something like a chinese wall right into the chinese and trying to limit imports from the chinese what we experience from some of these huawei the chinese tech company really successful fighting these attitude about. america and europe shouldn't do that and . on the long term you know once trump it's gone and a new president is there i think we should. to china and find the right to run the where we can cooperate and we shouldn't compete on trade we should

always try to be good partners and stop this. now you mentioned europe and i think europe is a bit in the middle here because politically and militarily it's still associated with the united states but. economically benefits globalization in the ways similar to china which magnet is likely to prove stronger and do you think europe will remain united as it navigates these competing pools well europe currently in a deep crisis in institutional crisis not only that but the whole. framework of the european union but as saying this it may be crisis leaving leading to this finally europe is redefining it still and europe will be stronger under french german leadership you will be strongly united and china will be a very strong partner if you're already know china is tremendous largest trading partner folks walking for example the german car company has china main market and

many other of german and european companies as well so yes europe is in between america and china and i think it's a good position that shouldn't really take sites that should work with both sides and we should also include klute russia i believe it's good to collaborate i'm just repeating my book before we need more dialogue and we should stop this confrontation well i think that position in the middle is good if you use it smartly but if you look at what's happening in europe inequalities in terms of economic development within the e.u. are still pretty wide there is a growing feeling of resentment in the south against the north there are tensions between the east and the west of europe not only about doing business with china but as you said doing business with russia. what would it take for the e.u. to stay together when it cannot make interest of its members i increasingly diverging you're right we see the divergence between the east to west of the north

and a solid strong about the sellers i'm very concerned about italy in italy's economy might go into recession maybe in the sort of quarter this year and maybe you know longer economic crisis trickling down the whole european union and italy's not crease crease what experience ten years ago when the first economic crisis hit was a much smaller of course patient so to say. you know what can we do i think we need more inclusion we have to listen to the talents we have to listen to the eastern europeans we just congolese seeing it's a western european approach we need to listen to those having issues here and find a united voice i think europe has always been very strong having this united force and we need maybe a new leadership in europe leaders who are to europeans who can sing about you know the continent with strong relationships to america to china and to russia while

good leadership is always the best solution for everything they have the question is where to find it i mean i think there are many countries around the world that are really struggling with on that issue can i ask you something something different though because many people when they talk totally in incompatible but there are many countries that do both china is both globalist and protectionist at the same time so is india so is the united states is it really about this tangent between globalization and protectionism as opposed to they need to redefine the rules of global trade make them accessible and fair to everybody and make them reflect the current realities of the global economy and you know i believe that protectionism in some very specific areas is the right thing to do if you think about the fun. sector and what many african countries experience right now is that cultural sector is suffering and they're important shouldn't be the case i think we

need to some self-sufficiency here especially in the cultural sector but everything should be open every single should be linked to the division of labor and we need also free movement of people talking about the phenomenon of my creation i think my creation is good for countries think about the silicon valley in the u.s. most tech pioneers in the u.s. . trying to reason or second train operation but mr richard the silicon valley is attracting the cream of the call people who go there on their own the courts and who would succeed in any country is it really comparable to a mass and often uncontrolled migration of millions of people whose identities you are not always able to check and host skill fab. is very very different from that of the silicon valley engineers i think we need to. leave a shortage in countries like china many and you know look about the divorce rate in

countries like germany italy so we need migration in all levels for the highly educated engineers and tech part of the us but also for those with much less education and i think the rich countries of the west have to support all small thing also in the own education in helping them to pro i think that's the right way to go what sort of ruled should together and it shouldn't be mentality ok mr ritter we have to leave it there i really appreciate you being with us today and sharing your perspective thanks so much for having me thank you and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on of all the part. bar.

after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to sit in the home field where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people by salt or not so you think. i'm going to talk about football not for you or else you can think i was going to go. by the way ways and such like here. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we

have it's crazy on sunday shouldn't let it be an arms race is on off and spearing dramatic development only closely and going to exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. the maternity town the slums go in and you may never get out some sort of people says. my teenage gang rules here. i don't want to move there no let me my. name he will be very tall. man seeing her. but now it's looking for

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