you're in a system controlled by the banks and you cannot exit it without cash i think that's an interesting way to look at it now i want to look at a headline out of china and then compare the story from china to our own you know corporate controlled world so china bans twenty three million people from buying travel tickets as part of social credit system china blocked twenty three million quote discs credited travelers from buying plane or train tickets last year as part of the country's controversial social credit system aimed at improving the behavior of citizens according to the national public credit information center's twenty eighteen report seventeen from purchasing high speed train tickets because of social credit offenses three poor released last week said quote once discredited limited everywhere so this is the real is

a so in china if you are not complying with an ever encroaching an oppressive state intrusion into your life you get discredited and the only way to keep yourself from being put in deeper layers of the gulag is to. play on the video games essentially to swear your allegiance or play video games or earn big you know virtual gold this type of thing so you'll end up with millions of people now where to their monitors in this casino gulag model and it's highly profitable and the people who are stuck in the casino good leg are are never going to get out really they'll be born in they'll die in the casino and it's coming to america well it's already here because let's look at this from the other side this is not just the government of china imposing this upon the people

the people themselves also want it they don't like people getting on a train for example without a reservation and first class and somebody is sitting in your seat and your reserves see and they refuse to get up well. this you get a mark against you on the social credit system here in the united states we have platforming who operates at the platform where is the agitation for de platforming coming from but those with the biggest voices the loudest voices in the most influential voices to the corporations like facebook like twitter like any other social media network that is. vulnerable to boycotts or to pressure from say m s n b c with a big platform so if they're saying we don't like this guy wears a make america great again have a mag a hat he should not be allowed to speak to anybody else in the community certainly

not on the you know the public airwaves that we feel we control if he feels like speaking maybe he can go to speakers corner somewhere over in london right will there be platforming in the us that's for sure and then they have the world's biggest prison population with over two million bigger than china and of course those people are working on slave wages so you have slavery in in the actual prisons and you have the platforming and you have this drift toward putting more and more the population into prison so it's you know i think china has a system of the casino where you can you don't have to be in an actual prison you can just be imprisoned by your mobile device and you can be trying to work your way out of a better social credit so it's i think it would maybe be for the population a less onerous than being a natural sell but the end result is pretty much the same i agree yeah the end result is the same when you see that with facebook has recently admitted for

example that some people they haven't had the platform and nobody can actually see their stuff so they're allowed to shout into the wind somebody on twitter who i was saw in my stream was saying well isn't this like is the next pressure on the mobile phone or landline networks like what if that mag a hat wearing guy is able to speak to his neighbors on his phone shouldn't we imply you know apply static so nobody can actually hear him like aren't there shouldn't we just silence these voices and here you're having the same thing here and in terms of prison of course yes the u.s. has the highest prison population in the world this is the avoiding that in a way so they do. no i mean china's proud of this they they've they're publishing it like they're not trying to hide it it's not something they're saying like these are secret documents released by wiki leaks they're the ones actually publicizing it saying once discredited limited everywhere so you know what the

likes of rachel maddow that sort of person is proclaiming the same thing but they think there is not somehow equivalent to china because it's these are private networks shutting where we're asking to shut down the voices and in china what they found is like they did raise you know tens of millions more in taxes that have been avoided for example so you get a bad social credit score if you fail to pay your taxes here in the u.s. obviously you go away for two three four five six up to ten years well or in the case of man a for i guess twenty years or so the social credit system aims to incentivize quote trustworthy behavior through penalties as well as a rewards according to a government document about the system dating from two thousand and fourteen the aim is to quote allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step and of course the country is massively indebted as is the world and

once they bring in digital coins whether it's a china state coin or a j.p. morgan coin or a facebook point they'll be able to bring in negative interest rates so part of voiding being discredited is earning enough digital gold fast enough then the value of the digital coin goes down so this one be great because you know google like video game they have millions of millions of chinese people are leading the way and they love it and the us is like envious like facebook likes to be i wish we had a casino like show you know so they get introduced facebook point yeah and again i want to say that quote again that they themselves brag about it isn't in order to allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven making a. for the discredited to take a single step like you are shut off from social media that's where it is right now but who knows when it goes to the public roads or the public airwaves or the well yeah they are banned from public airwaves of course and not allowed on any of the channels but that's that's coming to you and according to the report other

penalties for individuals include being banned from buying insurance real estate or investment products companies on the blacklist are banned from bidding on projects or issuing corporate bonds as well might well somebody's got to be slaving slaving lelie clicking on ads they don't want to be buying property or having any real assets that would be distracting you know it's a really interesting duel between two dystopian nightmares a brave new world in one thousand nine hundred four because they say you know you're in heaven there and that's like a brave new world thing where the soma is essentially you're clicking on discrediting yourself and and then recreating yourself through video games that would be more like i think brave new world to soma of of digital double mean and then the us as more of a ninety four where they put you in an actual cell an actual google ad with surrounded by t.v. cameras so these two dystopian visions are kind of competing each other with each other the twenty first century haven't really seen which one wall will win in the

end or whether it be a dual dystopia. of course you know you're blocked from issuing a corporate bonds. you know it also depends on who is determining what the correct social behavior is one would think like all the behavior of two thousand and eight and two that rewarded they got even more there was consolidation and bad behavior and they got to be in control of more of the corporate bond and more of the government bond system like the book is doing facebook filed a patent for quote civil political debate form facebook has applied to patent a system where people would comment on laws that might affect them then have that feedback worked into a formal political proposal creating a way for people to quote meaningfully engage in civil discourse online the concept would build on facebook's earlier attempts at promoting civic engagement and it sounds similar to other existing crowdsource democracy tools but facebook's vast

scale could put tremendous weight behind any kind of private political form they already have their reputation scores you can be d. platform so it's more again it's a it's a corporate private business was shareholders it's not government ron and so if you get shut out from if you get pulled from the political system it's not the government doing it it's facebook and their shareholders. right you know i suppose all developed wolf packs of gangs kind of roaming the streets and tipped them off in terms of which homes are being removed from any kind of like nest type security apparatus you know say the home number in this location look at their g.p.s. we're showing off security wolfpack attack and they'll be like oh ok look i'm going to. get all the movie reference for you clockwork orange remember they have those wolf packs of gangs kind of terrorizing the neighborhood that could be facebook's

muscle you know if you don't comply with the facebook going they call up the group easily ultraviolence so they sent over your home. the security is often like oh wow beautiful and you know facebook essentially rewriting the constitution i states we don't need facebook to rewrite the constitution and i says all that or what they're talking about they're completely overrides the constitution so that's that's that's completely. so let's move on to the next one because in china again if you're if you're not if you're discredited you're not allowed to buy insurance here of course you're forced to buy insurance who matter what no matter how many maggette hats you wear you've got to buy obamacare so this is a headline a plans denied nearly one in five in network claims and twenty seven thousand affordable care act marketplace plans deny nineteen percent of claims submitted for in network service and twenty seventeen only zero point five percent of those denied claims were even appealed according to

a new kaiser family foundation report so you're forced to buy this insurance product and are cases like thirty thousand a month nearly thirty thousand dollars for the two of us you get a deductible five thousand dollars or twenty percent of them and that's all of them some of them only have like a one percent a mile some of them have over fifty percent in iowa rates and people are so subdued and they're they're afraid to be discredited and locked out of the system that they don't even fight it less than one percent or even fighting these claims i know i don't know the emergency room it's like a bunch of ghouls you know salivating over the victims i think we'll lay there like three thousand three movable ok and it's quite disgusting and again they're like the walking dead so what if you get sick i mean that's why life expectancy in america is crashing it's like you can't get people in a hospital now actively trying to sell your organs on e bay it's disgusting. i might also add that you know it

comes to the point where you don't even want to go to the doctor just for a simple thing you know it's way better to just fly to mexico or europe. and just go visit a private hospital there because you know the avalanche of paperwork and confusing paperwork that you why over fifty thousand dollars but we negotiated that you know the five stitches you got it might cost you fifty thousand but we're only going to charge you two thousand and by the way we're going to deny that you know go to france go to france the american hospital it's cheaper than them using local health care much better as well because you don't want to be sent you know de platform from the entire system so million denied claims or appealed i remember you're forced to buy this product from the private insurers who have no restrictions on how much they can charge you how much they can fleece you how much their executives can charge forty three million deny claims for a service yes thank god we all live in a socialism wink wink all right well we're going to take a bit of

a break and when we come back much more coming your way. go in and you may never get out some sort of people this is. my teenage gang rules here because i want to. know who were who was but. maybe. you. might have seen her. as. well the way somebody who.

you do when you're the monkey. who. but. the. u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten point zero four point. five percent. to the old. eight percent world market. one hundred would prefer chicken personally and we rose to twenty thousand. just building two point one billion dollars. but don't let the numbers will be. the only number you need to remember one one you know more than this one and only.

welcome back to the report imax guys are time now to return to a conversation with brett scott he's the author of the heretics guide to global finance hacking the future of money and he writes a lot for the guardian and other publications brett welcome back great reacts all right we were picking up where we left off about china china has their credit score seems to be tied in with their digitalisation of money that is a concept scraping the globe as a way to keep tabs on folks and to enhance the surveillance state i know in the west for example financial services like pay pal and visa cut off activists like

wiki leaks. truly on political grounds and massive censorship which is unconstitutional your thoughts absolutely if you actually think about what a cashless society is a sort of court a bank payment society or you know it's a system run by the banking sector in which you actually can never escape the banking sector because you can have an exit system and of course that basically means that the bank is always between a buyer and a seller and that means they can watch what's going on they can potentially stop what's going on and they can also get lots of data from the process to try and influence you and steer your behavior in various ways and it's not just the banks are involved in this it's also that it's all the payments companies a lot of technology firms are not getting very excited about this this is why you know apple and google and facebook are also all trying to get into the payments business because they know they can get between people and markets they can

actually just start to influence them and watch their behavior right and another feature for having this digital money for state sponsored is that it'll make it easier for them to introduce negative and just rates and that will allow them to keep their ponzi schemes going longer let's talk about another part of the world here brad so the spread of digital payment via phone credits throughout africa and other parts of the world this is a mess like digital money more of a positive thing can you talk a little bit about that you know the best way to think about this is that you know if you are living in an all cash economy it certainly helps to have some new option available to you as you know i'm not saying it's terrible to always have it all payments because what digital payments do allows it allows you to interact with people that are far away from you so you can actually start to do internet commerce and so on. but a lot of what's been happening in the what's called financial inclusion which is

attempt to push digital payments into. places. you know in african countries and various places where people lack access to bank accounts that actually many of the big digital. the card and these are behind those bushes and they're often trying to strong arm governments into pushing their private corporate interests and sort of masquerading them as public you know sort of development projects and political the greater good and so we need to be careful when you start to see all those are good . stories a heartwarming stories about digital payments and you know kenya is actually many activists on the ground in those countries are very concerned about that yeah you know this centralization of these coins of course the corporate agenda is pushed by titans like amazon you know i just read that goober for example all their technology goes through amazon web service cloud and every single gets fourteen

cents goes to amazon so there's a huge an issue they have to centralize all this for the clouds like amazon and others now getting back to facebook for a second and their face coin or whatever they are going to call it i don't think it's been announced yet but they are already and how water for harvesting data from billions of people around the world. platforming tens of thousands of activists they're already acting as a hugely bad actor on so many different fronts and now they want to bring in their digital coin do you see this on par with what's happening in china would you make a differentiation brad what do you think oh absolutely you know what big companies like facebook realize the they've created online ecosystems which have millions and millions of people and they also run large messaging platforms like once up and messenger and they're out of their mind that facebook is not a bank it doesn't have the right to issue money and actually hold digital money so

what's going to happen in. background is that companies are phrasebook will be plugging into the banking sector much like paper pulp plugs into the back banking sector and then runs a sort of private ecosystem on top of it as it were so actually the banking sector always i'm depends all of these digital payment systems and then these new companies are kind of inserting them so between you and the banks and you i guess you got to decide you know do you what do you rather want facebook monitoring your payments or do you want j.p. morgan doing it or do you want to have authentic means to actually be to escape those systems entirely right that brings us back to bed coin big point being of course it's own it's own ecosystem it's not tied to the banking system so it's becoming still the way to go if one wants to escape the the surveillance coins of these banks and of these platforms like facebook and will it be able to

compete in your view in two years three years four years down the road we've got some great scaling initiatives now for bitcoin there's adoption rate is increasing the volume is increasing but you know the competition now from the state coins and then of course as part krugman at the new york times says the state. coins have have the military behind them they have men with guns you know they can they can come to your home and shoot you so this is big coin where you see that now in the next few years in this new environment well bear in mind that the state systems have more than just the military behind him they have a gigantic network of sects and huge amounts of dependence that people have in the systems so the entire american economy for example everybody there depends on using their own currency to actually survive and to enter the market so in many ways what you're trying to do is build a new system that has its own network effect and one of the main problems that

occur and it's very similar to the others. smaller crumbs occur into the faces in trying to compete with that and in order to have to do that you have to attention to get enough people to start using them but it creates. those new networks and right now it still remained very nice actually every time i read an article about you know responding and dying off but you know don't worry bitcoins now so this problem we've dealt with and now is you know respond by saying so and there you you've built something up might be an alternative but in reality the vast majority of people do not know how to use that they don't have a place to spend it not yet viable so we still need to be rich protecting the cash system up until some point where you maybe have some outside of the digital system all right in america i think as fifty percent of the population our sound is dependent on the state through food stamps and other programs so that's a captured audience right there now the international monetary fund the i.m.f. recently proposed

a means of imposing severe negative interest rates on cash by now it looks like we could all be forced to shop in the company store just like in the old days of intense or servitude breath so it's one of the big debate that occurs around around the push to move to digital payments around negative interest rate. and in essence that the best way to think about this is that. if we take too much the currency cash is a all sly form of money once you hold it a company remotely from a distance change the edited where is you know you do it your digital bank deposit that you use the card for and so on that is actually held in a data center somewhere by a large bank and it can be edited and changed remotely so potential banks that want to be able to implement negative interest rates whenever they try to do that people withdraw their bank deposits and turn them into tash so to avoid that negative interest rate so if they could get everybody to actually only. to be able to use

digital money they could then actually do things like negative interest rates and big economies like kind of broke off i've been actively pushing this right i mean i just watched the whole series of mr robot and they had evil coin and it seems like they took it right out of that plot of that that show anyway finally how can any imagine the cashless future really happened in a world where gold still exists beyond because of gold how do we fight back against the cashless society red cell what's the go forward here is there any help sure i mean there's actually a really massive campaigns of people trying to run on this on this issue and you know often it takes two to form a quite small things for example in the u.k. there's a lot of pushback right now as the banks are trying to get rid of a.t.m.'s and branches out of remote rural towns are not to the elderly people finding them so shut out of this dust them and look you know the best way to think about it is when banks are shutting down a.t.m. so branches what they're basically trying to do is to prevent you accepting this

system or at the a.t.m. is a place where you go to exit the banking system so you get ten just so shut down that infrastructure is trying to keep you and then there are internal ecosystems and once people start to understand that they can start to see the power dynamic much more clearly and it actually thought that the mind a lot a lot more into mom the right to be able to exit the banking system right good point how how could you build on that i mean to exit the banking system is god i guess gold is still a big client an a.t.m. and i mean ourselves the day of the holy trinity have bank exiting what do you think i mean i know you're busy with exiting their pain union but as far as exiting the banking system does seem to be the three primary ralph yeah absolutely so in the money the system the cash and the a.t.m. system is the way that you get out of the bank money system if you want to go completely out of the money space of course that the realm of crypt and gold and

all those types of things and in that space the big challenge. to actually make them usable to the everyday person and i guess that's a lot was a lot of scope for all creativity that form new systems local systems all sorts of currencies so you know that you know on the one hand this is a big problem but it's also a big opportunity for people to start forming creates the resistance all right that's going to do it thanks for being on the kaiser report bret's got. all right and that is going to do it for this episode of the kaiser report with me max kaiser stacy i would like to thank our guest brett scott is the author of the heretics guide to global finance hacking the future of money trying to catch us on twitter it's kaiser reports and i stand by all.

the emotions all the. western countries are very reluctant to recognize the fact that is that is why mike formally and also to make that they were perhaps stronger and ok condemning them are siding against and so with glee in the early stages of the war so technically him being undermined the reconstruction process by the prolongation of sanctions i think that western countries would wind as intuition where this is serious

reconstructed by the base you know. he wishes he started by a third power not rushing around not by the west and by the g.c.c. . headlining this hour venezuela accuses the u.s. backed opposition of sabotaging the country's power supply as washington threatens more sanctions against the government. will the u.s.

army intelligence whistleblower chelsea manning is back behind bars after refusing to testify to u.s. grand jury in a case against wiki leaks. and the u.s. house of representatives passes a bill to counter the influence of so-called dog money from unknown donors in the election process. good morning it's eight am here in moscow my name is called him international world news first for you this saturday.