or play video games or earn big you know virtual gold this type of thing so you'll end up with millions of people now where to their monitors in this casino gulag model and it's highly profitable and the people who are stuck in the seaborne they'll die in the casino and it's coming to america well it's already here because let's look at this from the other side this is not just the government of china imposing this upon the people the people themselves also want it they don't like people getting on a train for example without a reservation and first class and somebody is sitting in your seat and your reserves see and they refuse to get up well this you get a mark against you on the social credit system here in the united states we have platforming who operates at the platform where is the agitation for de platforming coming from but those with the biggest voices the loudest voices and the most

influential voices to the corporations like facebook like twitter like any other social media network that is. vulnerable to boycotts or to pressure from we don't like this guy wears a make america great again have a mag a hat he should not be allowed to speak to anybody else in the community certainly not on the you know the public airwaves that we feel we control if he feels like speaking maybe he can go to speakers corner somewhere over in london right will there be platforming in the us that's for sure and then they have the world's biggest prison population with over two million bigger than china and of course those people are working on slave wages so you have slavery in in the actual prisons and you have the platforming and you have this drift toward putting more and more of the population in the prison so it's you know i think china has a system of the casino where you can you don't have to be in an actual prison you

can just be imprisoned by your mobile device and you can be trying to work your way out of a better social credit so it's i think it would maybe be for the population a less onerous than being a natural sell but the end result is pretty much the same i agree yeah the end result is the same when you see that with facebook has recently admitted for example that some people they haven't had the platform and nobody can actually see their stuff so they're allowed to shout into the wind somebody on twitter who i was saw in my stream was saying well isn't this like is the next pressure on the mobile phone or landline networks like what if that mag a hat wearing guy is able to speak to his neighbors on his phone shouldn't we imply you know apply static so nobody can actually hear him like aren't there shouldn't we just silence these voices and here you're having the same thing here and in terms of prison of course yes the u.s.

has the highest prison population in the world this is the avoiding that in a way so they do know china i mean china's proud of this they they've they're publishing it like they're not trying to hide. not something they're saying like these are secret documents released by wiki leaks they're the ones actually publicizing it saying once discredited limited everywhere so you know what the likes of rachel maddow that sort of person is proclaiming the same thing but they think there is this is not somehow equivalent to china because it's these are private networks shutting where we're asking to shut down the voices and in china what they found is like they did raise you know tens of millions more in taxes that have been avoided for example so you get a bad social credit score if you fail to pay your taxes here in the u.s. obviously you go away for two three four five six up to ten years well or in the case of man a for i guess twenty years or so the social credit system aims to incentivize quote

trustworthy behavior through penalties as well as a rewards according to a government document about the system dating from twenty four haven't all making it hard for the discredited to take a single step and of course the country is massively indebted as is the world and once they bring in digital coins whether it's a china state coin or a j.p. morgan coin or a facebook coin they'll be able to bring in negative interest rates so part of voiding being discredited is earning enough digital gold by clicking on advertising for facebook so that you don't get discredited and if you don't do it fast enough then the value of your digital coin goes down so this one be great because you know google a video game they have millions of millions of chinese people are leading the way and they love it and the u.s. is like envious like facebook likes to be i wish we had a casino like show you know so they get introduced facebook point yeah and again i want to say that quote again that they themselves brag about it isn't in order to

allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven making a hard for the discredited to take a single step so the discredited opinions. in this country for sure that those exist like you are shut off from social media that's where it is right now but who knows when it goes to the public roads or the public airwaves or the well yeah they are banned from public airwaves of course and not allowed on any of the channels but that's that's coming to you and according to the report other penalties for individuals include being banned from buying insurance real estate or investment products companies on the blacklist are banned from bidding on projects or issuing corporate bonds as well might well somebody's got to be slaving slaving lelie clicking on ads they don't want to be buying property or having any real assets that would be distracting you know it's a really interesting duel between two dystopian nightmares a brave new world in one thousand nine hundred four because they say you know you're in heaven there and that's like

a brave new world thing where the soma is essentially you're clicking on discrediting yourself and and then recreating yourself through video games that would be more like i think brave new world to soma of of digital double mean and then the u.s. has more of a ninety four where they put you in an actual cell an actual google ad with surrounded by t.v. cameras so these two dystopian visions are kind of competing each other with each other the twenty first century haven't really seen which one wall will win in the end or whether it be a dual dystopia and of course you know you're blocked from issuing a corporate bonds. you know it also depends on who is determining what correct social behavior is one with on the corporate bond market in this country they got rewarded they got even more there was consolidation and bad behavior and they got to be in control of more of the corporate bond and more of the government bond system like the likes of j.p. morgan and goldman sachs but i want to turn to facebook and compare it to what

facebook is doing facebook filed a patent for quote civil political debate form facebook has applied to patent a system where people would comment on laws that might affect them then have that feedback worked into a formal political proposal creating a way for people to quote meaningfully engage in civil discourse online the concept would build on facebook's earlier attempts at promoting civic engagement and it sounds similar to other existing crowdsource democracy tools but facebook's vast scale could put tremendous weight behind any kind of private political form they already have their reputation scores you can be d. platform so it's more again it's a it's a corporate private business was shareholders it's not government ron and so if you get shut out from if you get pulled from the political system it's not the government doing it it's facebook and their shareholders. right you know i suppose

all developed wolf packs of gangs kind of roaming the streets and tipped them off in terms of which homes are being removed from any kind of like nest type security apparatus you know say the home number and they'll be like oh ok look i'm going to . get all the movie reference for you clockwork orange remember they have those wolf packs of gangs kind of terrorizing the neighborhood that could be facebook's muscle you know if you don't comply with the facebook going they call up the group easily ultraviolence so they sent over your home. the security is often like oh wow beautiful and you know facebook essentially is rewriting the constitution i states we don't need facebook to rewrite the constitution and i says all there are what they're talking about they are completely over. so let's move on to the next one because in china again if you're if you're not if you're discredited you're not allowed to buy insurance here of course you're forced to buy insurance who matter

what no matter how many maggette hats you wear you've got to buy obamacare so this is a headline a plans denied nearly one in five in network claims and twenty seven thousand affordable care act marketplace plans deny nineteen percent of claims submitted for in network service and twenty seventeen only zero point five percent of those denied claims were even appealed according to a new kaiser family foundation report so you're forced to buy this insurance product and are cases like thirty thousand a month nearly thirty thousand dollars for the two of us you get a deductible five thousand dollars but even if you even these in network claims they're denying nearly twenty percent of them and that's all of them some of them only have like a one percent a mile some of them have over fifty percent in credit in locked out of the system that they don't even fight it less than one percent or even fighting these claims i know i don't of emergency room it's like a bunch of ghouls you know salivating over the victims i think we'll lay there like

three thousand three movable. and it's quite disgusting and again they're like the walking dead so what if you get sick i mean that's why life expectancy in america is crashing it's like you can't the people in the hospital now are actively trying to sell your organs on e bay it's disgusting. i might also add that you know it comes to the point where you don't even want to go to the doctor just for a simple thing you know it's way better to just fly to mexico or europe and just go visit a private hospital there because you know the avalanche of pay. her work and confusing paperwork that you my over fifty thousand dollars but we negotiated that you know the five stitches you got it might cost you fifty thousand but we're only going to charge you two thousand and by the way we're going to deny that you know go to france go to france the american hospital it's cheaper than them using local health care much better as well because you don't want to be sent you know de platform

from the entire system so you see the dough syllabi there but because it only about two hundred thousand of the almost forty three million denied claims were appealed i remember you're forced to buy this product from the private insurers who have no restrictions on how much they can charge you how much they can fleece you how much their executives can charge forty three million deny claims for a service yes thank god we don't live in a socialism wink wink all right well we're going to take a bit of a break and when we come back much more coming your way. the maternity turns. go in and you may never get out so those are the most of.

my teenage gang rules here. are one of the few moves then let the minute he was good good luck you were through with but. the navy will. kill. you. minus a murderer. was. in for the yeah. and melanie when not when. you were the monkey in the room. it was not it molded you to trade or labor there's an environmental standards in

the original nafta the five years ago those were kicked out because relations were more punitive but now the relation is very very close intertwined so i think it's ok to have a new treaty and you negotiation. is this is a stick from the water bottle phone in the stomach of the fish the brand is part of the coca-cola company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that let's tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litterbugs are throwing this away industry should be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. caps losing. their place.

now the. only grow. welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time now to return to our conversation with bret scott he's the author of the heretics guide to global finance hacking the future of money and he writes a lot for the guardian and other publications brett welcome back great all right if we were picking up where we left off about china china as their credit score seems to be tied in with their digitalisation of money that is a concept sweeping the globe as a way to keep tabs on folks and to enhance the surveillance state i know in the west for example financial truly on political grounds and massive censorship which is unconstitutional your thoughts absolutely if you actually think about what

a cashless society is. it's sort of call it a bank payment society or you know it's a system run by the banking sector in which you actually can never escape the banking sector because you can do but. of course that basically means that the bank is always between a buyer and a seller and that means they can watch what's going on they can potentially stop what's going on and they can also get lots of data from the purser's to try and influence you and steer your behavior in various ways and it's not just the banks are involved in this it's also all that it's all the payments companies a lot of technology firms are not getting very excited about this this is why you know apple and google and facebook are also all trying to get into the payments business because they know they can get between people and my kids they can actually just start to influence them and watch their behavior right and another feature for having this digital money for state sponsored is that it'll make it

easier for them to introduce negative interest rates and that will allow them to keep their ponzi schemes going longer last. talk about another part of the world here brad so this this is a mess like digital money more of a positive thing can you talk a little bit about that you know the best way to think about this is if you are living in an old cash economy it certainly helps to have some option available to you if you know i'm not saying it's terrible to always have to juggle payments because what digital payments do allows it allows you to interact with people that are far away from you so you can actually start to do commerce and so on. but it's a lot of what's been happening in the what's called financial inclusion which is the attempt to push digital payments into places. you know an african countries and various places where people lack access to bank accounts that actually many of the big digital must the card and these are behind those bushes and they're often

trying to strong arm governments projects and look for the greater good and so we need to be careful when you start to see all these are good. stories a heartwarming stories about digital payments and you know kenya is actually many activists on the ground in those countries are very concerned about that yeah you know this centralization of these coins amazon you know i just read that goober for example all their technology goes through amazon web service cloud and every single gets fourteen cents goes to amazon so there's a huge initiative to centralize all this for the class face coin or whatever they are going to call it i don't think it's been announced yet but they are already and how water for harvesting data from billions of people around the world platforming tens of thousands of activists they're already acting as a hugely bad actor on so many different fronts and now they want to bring in their digital coin do you see this on par with what's happening in china would you make

a differentiation brad what do you think oh absolutely you know what big companies like facebook realize the they've created. online ecosystems which oh millions and millions of people and they also run large messaging platforms like once up and messenger and there are so they can turn these and into digital payment systems or digital payments in mind that facebook is not a bank it doesn't have the right to issue money and actually hold digital money so what's going to happen in the background is that companies are phrasebook will be plugging into the banking sector much like paper pulp plugs into the back banking sector and then runs a sort of private ecosystem on top of it as it were so actually the banking sector always i'm depends all of these digital payment systems and then these new companies are kind of inserting them so between you and the banks and i guess you

got to decide you know do you what do you rather want facebook monitoring your payments or do you we to escape those systems entirely right that brings us back to bed coyne big point being of course its own its own ecosystem it's not tied to the banking system so it's becoming still the way to go if one wants to escape the the surveillance coins these banks and of these platforms like facebook and will it be able to compete in your view in two years three years four years down the road we've got some great scaling initiatives now for bitcoin as adoption rate is increasing the volume is increasing by you know the competition now from the state coins and then of course as part krugman at the new york times says and with guns you know they can they can come to your home and shoot you so this is big coin where you see that now in the next few years in this new environment well bear in mind that the state systems have more than just the military behind him they have a gigantic network of facts and huge amounts of dependence that people have in the

systems so the entire american economy for example everybody there depends on using your own currency to actually see. by then to enter the market so in many ways what you're trying to do is build a new system that has its own network effect and one of the main problems but trying to say to many of the smaller firms occurrences of spaces in trying to compete with that and in order to have to do that you have to as tension to get enough people to start using them that it creates. those new networks and right now it still remains very nice actually every time i write an article about cashless society and one about the various dangers of it i get a lot of people coming to me and you know responding and saying all but you know don't worry you know bitcoins now so this problem we've dealt with and now is you know respond by saying so and there you you've built something that might be an alternative but in reality the vast majority of people do not know how to use that

they don't have enough places to spend it not yet viable so we still need to be rid of protecting the cash system up until some point where you maybe have some outside of the digital system all right in america i think as fifty percent of the population are south is dependent on the state through food stamps and other programs so that's a captured audience right there now the international monetary fund the i.m.f. recently proposed a means of imposing severe negative answers wanted to make purchases now it looks like we could all be forced to shop in the company store just like in the old days of indentured servitude breath so is it one of the big debate that occurs around around the push to move to digital payments around negative interest rate. that in essence that the best way to think about this is that. if we think too much the currency cash is a all flying form of money once you hold it a company remotely from a distance change the edited where is you know you do it your digital bank deposit

that you use the card for and so on that is actually held in a data center somewhere by a large bank and it can be a. and change remotely potential banks that want to be able to implement negative interest rates whenever they try to do that people withdraw their bank deposits and turn them into tash so to avoid that negative interest rate so if they could get everybody to actually only be able to use digital money they could then actually do things like negative interest rates and big economies like kind of rogoff have been actively pushing this right i mean i just watched the whole series of mr robot and they had evil coin and it seems like they took it right out of that plot of that that show anyway finally how can any imagine the cashless future really happened in a world where gold still exists beyond because of gold how do we fight back against the cashless society red cell what's the go forward here is there any hope so i

mean there's actually really been some campaigns that people have tried to run on this on this issue and you know going to take the form of private small things for example in the u.k. there's a lot of pushback right now as the banks are trying to get rid of a.t.m.'s and branches out of remote rural towns or not to the elderly people finding them so shut out of the system and look you know the best way to think about it is when banks are shutting down a.t.m. so branches what they're basically trying to do is to prevent you accepting this system or at the a.t.m. is a place where you go to exit the banking system and yet tend to so shut down that infrastructure is trying to keep you in in that dynamic much more clearly and that actually thought to demand a lot a lot more into mom the right to be able to exit the banking system right good point how how could you build on that i mean to exit the banking system is got i guess gold is still a big client an a.t.m. and i mean ourselves the day of the holy trinity have bank exiting what do you

think i mean i know you're busy with exiting they are paying union but as far as exiting the banking system does seem to be the three primary ralph yeah absolutely so in the money the system the cash. and the a.t.m. system is the way that you get out of the bank money system if you want to go completely out of money space of course then it's the realm of crypto and gold and all those types of things and in that space the big challenge is to actually make them usable to the everyday person and i guess that's a lot there's a lot of scope for all creativity there to form new systems local systems alternative currencies so you know that on the one hand this is a big problem but it's also a big opportunity for people to start forming create some of the resistance all right that's going to do it thanks for being on the kaiser report bret's got a mixture of all right and that is going to do it for this an episode of the kaiser report with me max kaiser stacy i would like to thank our guest bret scott is the poor and i stand by all.

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i've been saying the numbers mean something they've met or the us has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime families each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent and little market blows thirty percent some with one hundred to five hundred three per second per second and fifth when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars a i industrial park but don't let the numbers over. the only number you need to remember is one one business shows you know for the mid one and only boom but. to.

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