time to sit down and talk. to the public well. when the ruling classes protect themselves. go around. the room sick. leave. the. room.

welcome to sophie and comb sophie shevardnadze and the new trade agreement between the united states canada and mexico is under fire as mexico pledges not to ratify it with trump still cherish in place. while the agreement make it or will they are of no deal prevail ask the add in mexico's undersecretary for dorothy america and the country's chief negotiator in the us i'm seeing a talks. and eleventh hour deal of lutes a trade war between mexico and the united states but with terror still pending in trump building a border wall how will the new mexican government steer the country through this. the central american powerhouse managed to stand its ground this is the its northern neighbor would have to bow down to the entire systems of pressure from washington. ambassador siyad that mexico's undersecretary for north america and the country's chief negotiator in the u.s. embassy a top. welcome to the show it is really great to have you with us lots to discuss

and mr savage you are mexico's kin diplomat in the talks over the us mexico canada dale new knocked up the process of negotiation was started by the trumpet ministration do you think that was the right move a good thing to do not tell was good enough for president clinton president bush president obama does it really not work anymore. that's what president trump was say in the that the treaty was the the worst treaty have heard didn't work anymore. i would say we there are things that happen you have new sectors for example digital trade there was no trade or labor there's an environmental standards in the original enough to five years ago bush recouped out because relations were more punitive konami but now the relation is very very close in the client so i think it's ok to have a new treaty

a new negotiation to donald trump one to into the talks where they complain promise to put america first do you feel that mexico now has to sacrifice some of its interests to piece that policy to say in some kind of an agreement with the united states because i wonder if this new deal is favoring america like trump promised it would. no i don't see that. it was the intention. is not the outcome. the main part of the trade relationship is manufacturers trading industrial goods but peculiarly the car industry and what the agreement dos is to make it more difficult to bring parts for the rest of the world. forcing the companies if they want to continue to sell into the u.s. just because market the well forces them to invest but invest in mexico in the united states in canada i think it's

a good investment if. it's about history it's ok it's good for mexico. so when the backlash against a proposed pacific an atlantic free trade deal is eventually killed them it was as if the tree free trade dream is over with this new deal on your hands do you think it is and we're back to terry if scale. no no no it's not such a fantastically big change it's evolution of the nafta it takes enough the and improved the rules in many areas it improves then it increases what is called the rules of origin which is what i was talking about it makes it. necessary for the foreign companies to use more in north america therefore to invest and then every interesting part of the treaty is that it has a number of areas that i call social agenda. labor rules

environment rules and corruption rules. it has ways to help small and medium enterprises even us culture protection facilities provisions so it is a very interesting treaty that is more pro investment than pro trade but also a social agenda. so they did see a good agreement for the second quarter of the century ok so they t.p. and the t.t. ip tears were criticized as being too friendly to the large multinational corporations but looking at this new deal for instance it hands quite a few benefits to the big pharma prolonged patents on drugs for instance can we be sure that the new deal doesn't put the corporations first. well you touch the one area. what do you think of the deal is thirty five chapters is

a huge gigantic thing the one area where i think i would have changed the result it is pharmaceuticals. protection to pharmaceutical. companies protection to bio med this is a bit higher than i wish it have been. in mexico or middle income countries with depend a lot on generic medicines. patent medicines. and this. derives from the patent after a number of years of taurus. tighter so it's more difficult to get. so intellectual property is the one area that is not good news but again is that very good use across manufacturers so on balance it's

like a. member of canada's parliament has recently accused mexico throwing his country under the bus when it sealed and bilateral trade agreement with the united states while the three countries where renegotiating the nafta deal last summer do you think canadians are outraged you think it's justified. yes there was a difficult time the united states managed to you know the old the old dictum. separate and conquer divide and conquer and the united states managed to close the negotiations first mexico then. for mexico it worked well for kind of it was. difficult in some areas that were negotiated primarily by mexico. and this is something. quite understandably took against the mexican authorities it

was a previous gartman to mexico there was cheating when the new government came in and hear your friend who is speaking now became the chief negotiator we really made every effort to bring kind of into the fold fully. and million times this treaty has to be trilateral. this is with canada with kind of the other good now. ok with this treaty the new x. and ca deal has not been ratified while the u.s. congress was rad and now democrats are on the lower house and there seems to be some criticism of the new deal as it allegedly doesn't deliver on what the u.s. workers wanted from it can they do you fall prey to the domestic politics in the united states. you're right the main area. number of. those congressmen in the united states. complaining expressing

concern related to labor but i really think this is a misunderstanding because the labor chapter is extremely powerful the little chapter is very strong very best practice what they want is not. provisions but trade provisions to enforce the labor commitments so it's a question of believing that mexico will do what mexico has committed but they don't understand that in mexico the top priority of the new center left government is to work for the workers so i think good communication will go a long way to clarify that our objective in their objective are very much in line i think communication would be part of this we have to understand what they want to say and agree respectfully deal with it reopening that the treaty is very

complicated it will be upon the moanin for everybody but i don't think it is necessary we need to understand each other and to see what they want and we want the same. more of this bilateral deal between united states and mexico was forged last summer you were certain it would happen you sat back than that trumps pushed for the deal was merely and negotiating trick tactic and here it is are you sure you can read him right. well we are sure we like what came out of it the dynamics in the politics and it's extremely complicated i believe one reason why president trump decided to go for this negotiation was a career in his approach to trade with other countries they ended up fighting with the european union and with china and with the pan korea australia canada

mexico everybody then all of sudden in this kind of divided world of trade they managed to have a trophy and achievement is an important achievement i think sincerely and honestly is an achievement but also politically is very important that's why president trump is very post the about it to his government is in that's why some democrats are attacking it not because it's any bad but because it will want to award the trial off to prison trump i hope politics will be. at one point compressed into looking at the interest of the united states and the states like this and that makes you go into a client supported very well by this forward who can treat the that's what he's in you know said that the trumpet ministration will soon remove the u.s. steel and allen minium tariffs which it has right now imposed in mexico but the

discussion of this issue has been dragging on for many months already while many. certain that it's going to be solved soon. well i would say. that this situation is worse than that the still has not been dragging on for months has been almost abandoned that you know progress meant. has been dealing with it a few feet this is a separate question a separate chapter but in reality they have completely could let that impossible to think of u.s.m.c. going through without still be resolved and ratification well let's see how long it takes but hopefully sometime this year. and all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're about to do this question has to be resolved ok brianna take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue discussing the relations

between mexico and the united states with crisis say at it mexico's undersecretary for north america and chief negotiator at the u. s. and c. a toxic stay with us. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics small business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. during the great depression which i'm old master remember there was and most of my

family were unemployed working class there wasn't it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but there was an expectation that things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy at tax solo down to engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no i'm chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite set of rules for . that's what happens when you put her into the hands of a narrow sector of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america.

i'd say the number. they've matter to us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime happens each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent world market thirty percent some with four hundred five hundred three first second first second and fifth when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars ai industrial park but don't let the numbers over. the only number you need to remember one is you know who are committing the one and only.

it we're back with say out in mexico's undersecretary for north america and late they closed out in the us and ca talks espousing the challenges mexico is facing in their relations with its northern neighbor so mr said a trump is justifying the steel and aliment in tariffs we have just touched upon by concerns of national security. just using that as pretext or does mexico now have to work on not being seen as a threat to the united states. there is no way mexican steel could be a threat to the united states for one thing the trade in steel products is quite

strong in both directions but bigger the experts on the united states to mexico so that the u.s. has a surplus with mexico how can import from mexico be that i really think these buses pre-fixed to create some extra room for the studio three a with a vision of president trump would support the mystic industry rather than thinking of global engagement or trade. excuse he's no good but whatever it is it has to go and i believe that the that this is he says goldman. and rob the information is that even the industry ready to. to see this out a season the mexican government or the mexican industry so we just have to engage and discuss how to do it but but this has to go to the mexican president has said that his country will continue to pursue friendly relations with the u.s.

now how easy is it to do that when trump openly calls mexicans rapists people with troubles simpering troubles chile united states i mean does it not get under your skin when you are negotiating. well we certainly don't appreciate those expressions . we have on a number of occasions indicated. disappointment to hear certain things these are things that are said largely with the domestic politics in mind and. we don't take them personally we are just dealing with the actual relations the actual things the bundles the negotiations trying to move forward to a better relationship to a high level of relationship. this remarks all the reference about the wall in mexico being the wall it's not into important things in mexico it is internal

politics in the usa ok but the wall where it up when we're talking about cross border trade inevitably the plans of trump to construct a border come into play if it is constructed what if fact will that have one mexico u.s. trade relations. well i think it is. constructed. to be so negative on trade relations trade listen through. every metre of the three thousand kilometer border it goes through certain points and the trains have you know roads to for that for the trucks to cross that's not going to be affected. the wall we see something is not constructive but is not directly impinging affecting trade. to question the answer is no we will see that as being particularly relevant for

a program that mexico by virtue of geography is on the way of asylum seekers had eight for the united states and neutron policies on immigration are creating a backlog and so those refugees have to stay in mexico before they can present themselves to the u.s. authorities how does mexico deal with this situation and what kind of problems does that create for your country. we have an extremely interconnected region i mean there's thirty six million mexicans living in the united states twenty four of those are permanent residents with a permanent resident that permit or visa or dual nationality twenty four and then twelve only mexicans how few of them regular with the with the with a prop is working conditions half of them illegal immigrants most mexicans a hundred percent mexico's all the same so the relationship is extremely complex

without having to of any walls or anything the reality is that the migration from mexico to that states used to be huge twenty years ago even ten years ago and in the last six to eight years has gone into negative there are more mexicans coming back from the u.s. to mexico than going from mexico to the u.s. so let's go to what is irritating now. north american authorities is the fact that . there's pressure there lots of central americans coming through mexico and trying to gold to the united states so that certainly creates its difficult situation of the know the border for us but that's a situation related to. people from honduras guatemala el salvador coming through mexico relations with mexico on mexican people. quite balance that's not where the problems so let's china to the picture because that's important the u.s.

embassy a deal with discussed earlier includes a provision that forces all signatories to inform and each other of talks on trade deals with non market economies and can be used to freeze them out if these talks result in a deal how much of a blow would that be for mexico and canada's relations with china. well china is of course the giant not in the room i mean the most important trading partner for each of us outside ourselves. mexico wants to develop a good relationship with china mexico has a huge trade deficit with china so want to find ways to export more to china but also perhaps more importantly to attract investment. the treaty they use m.c.a. has a provision that says that if any of members the three countries start

negotiations dorsey free trade agreement this will be notified to the oh there is a new this can get out of the of the u.s. m.c.a. but nobody's thinking at these not in mexico of creating a free trade agreement with china anytime soon we need to develop a stronger links develop a stronger investment flaws and we can do that perfectly well and we tend to do that perfectly well we are working with china as well as we are working with kind of the units this week in the terms of the treaty to china is now reportedly the biggest creditor of latin america and there is some talk of mexico approaching it for help with the railroad infrastructure project this is new it with a concern from washington which was that chinese investment comes with a have a dose of just certificate interest aren't you afraid of becoming a pawn in china u.s. big rivalry game or can mexico and other latin american countries play date to again another. rather than

a phrase that we of course will be very careful very careful dealing with china is complex the line between the company and the state is most of the time the three will draw on a very clear so you are you're working with a partner investor or whatever in some measure you're working with a whole country with china so you have to be careful. an important part of developing a relationship must be to develop improved. provisions and mechanisms to discuss problems to create confidence in both directions the chinese have a deficit of confidence with mexico how does that country work it's too distant so we have to educate our people in earth to work together and of course because. rick if we were to reach with that with germany states. china

is. a country with an investment system very much of its own and we have to be very clear that that we need over the table relationships and. links but we welcome the investment one day terms you hear most often when it comes to chinese investment stay feared that trap basically a situation where the recipient nation bites more than it can chew in terms of loans have you considered this scenario will fracture in mexico's case or nah. no i mean that's that's very much something that the depends on you not on china how much how far you go how much are you invest me investing what is the balance of your macro economy if there is one thing that makes it go has in abundance is matra konami stability it is a country has been extremely well on the stability front for by the north thirty

years twenty five years saw this. we have all the mechanisms we have the internal checks and balances controls and we are not going to lose track of where we want to be in didn't we china want to welcome their investment that's not going to vote for the boat in terms of our economy so the us china trade war is still on despite hopes of resolution in the meantime in early february the un released a report saying that mexico could capture a major deal of the exports lost because of the ballot or will terrorist between china and the united states do you see a prospect of gain here could it over way the long term damage from the trade war itself well you've. you can always look at things in contradictory ways at the same time if there is a trade war we build in the united states and china you can think oh the spillover into benefits to mexico because because exports and he said forced to have more

complex a facility that's generally more complex mexico can come in but i think that center you have to understand the there is a trade war within that stays in china the american economies that left the chinese economies that much and each of those is important to mexico so i think the balance of preference is that we applaud the fact that the unites is in china seem to be coming to a healthy balance agreement to avoid a trade war in the avoid a trade war they'll be good for. well the international economy the world economy that'll be good for mexico we're not looking at opportunities for small benefits because somebody. far from the other one we prefer big benefits from the world economy particularly involving our two main trading partners i'm bassett or thank you for this interview we're talking to say adam mexico's undersecretary for north

america and chief negotiator wayne de u.s.m.c. a talks discussing yes mexico's economic cooperation and that the border crisis between the two countries that's it for this edition of something go i'll see you next time. i am. still seem wrong. i just don't. get to shape out. and in. the trail.

once i find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. thank. you. both there you know what. you come from up there and i think i want to. let you go because a couple of you show me she got me. case on. the wall for you if they think you know how to. say to. keep looking. for. fish.

for. example tonight. the u.k. is split over the case of a young icy.