in the change state of emergency we declared that jeremy cauldrons labor gets into power we ask a member of the party's international development tosk force talk to jason. plus socialism and the saxophone with award winning musicians away took him over some more going up in today's going underground first tomorrow marks the thirtieth anniversary of an innovation that may be remembered in ten thousand years time the world wide web invented by british scientist him berners lee the e.u. government funded before four billion were connected there was this number of hits on this machine. the day that a year later two thousand and then a year later ten thousand but arguably most crucial to the world wide web was the absence of privatized entrepreneurial capitalists with intellectual property rights in one thousand nine hundred three cern management decided that the web should act as an open for all to use that as an extension decision. so the

web we have if we had not had that document concerned we would not have the web but decades of public sector taxpayer money spent on communications infrastructure let alone centuries of publicly funded intellect which would be arguably hijacked by a handful of entrepreneurs who founded companies like amazon post office is losing billions of dollars and the taxpayers are paying for that money because it delivers packages for amazon at a very below cost or companies like google the european union has hit google with a record fine equal to five billion dollars thank you says google violated antitrust laws north of the e.u. which funded the creation of the internet now has any real power to ban google or for that matter the powerful information vacuum cleaner facebook facebook is an idealistic and optimistic company for most of our existence we focused on all of the. good that connecting people can do but could all the bad events connecting

people can do the nuclear holocaust know recent example of how an information war can threaten the planet arguably compares to the simmering conflict between two former british nuclear armed colonies pakistan and india the facts are still not even entirely clear well joining me now via skype from chennai is money and swami an indian m.p. representing a pradesh in india's former minister of law and justice so everybody and welcome to going underground let's just start with the same question we asked the pakistani high commissioner here in london would you rule out the support of the use of nuclear weapons against pakistan. yet said it's a good guess and there won't be goes the control systems on pushing a nuclear bomb is not in doubt a new dance of the kind of again i suppose what i what i mean though is would india use nuclear weapons against pakistan we are committed to no first use and will not change that ok well he told us that commissioner that india caused all the recent

problems and india refused any proper investigations into jaish e mohammed and the terrorist attack on india and that's where everything started just. past that meeting and it usually is against india but it is a shame on what. is now on i think the end of final status and united nations odierno as it is organization and the haters that dennis so it's not be united nations for all of those years ago. and they don't have to do with understand underlayment indians. information but you do recognize that india violated international law by invading pakistani territory with its warplanes you know the united nations makes it right and so depends you can do many things including. the body. years of other countries and there was

a horrid incident where forty four of our troops the battery literally killed and we had to retaliate because it came from a particular camp which we had information on and it is that gap of yours in the box than it did to be bombed but do you think that you up the stakes as it were when you tweeted that if the pakistanis are in suicide mode india should graciously assist in them going to hell. well that is not part of the government. facilities to speak in hyperbolic terms and i did. i said that they are of course it is after a matter that bugs than has been noted periodically messages are sent in one as far as india and sends no match for india and down fortunately this is something which there are different exact same biologically and therefore they are going on in a meeting books by this time other than to do let's not forget that and it's not

really a country it was never before attempted the british were the ones who created this country and they're not able to get their provinces to gether side with the army of the this i was to say to them more we should assist them to disintegrate. well i'm sure the commissioner would deny that but say probably also deny some allegations about i.s.i. do you still believe that pakistan's i.s.i. is involved in al qaeda or taliban activity in afghanistan which is being debated at the u.n. eight years now since the killing of osama bin laden the in pakistan by u.s. troops. one side is his backside saved by never going against american interests so the americans want to get osama bin laden they're already dead they did but the fact of the matter is that you know almost all of the disorganization is in barcelona sorry didn't. have any idea until the

i.s.i. has a lot of activities to assist heirloom finance them as it did and you know for. her and it's been documented in the united nations itself and that and one of the changes dealers and there are blasts when the sun don't express and on that and one of the understanding of the nations of the globe is a telescope musician by the un in two thousand and seven and that downer i guess activities and been totally documented. but can you not see that as india and pakistan may close the ties with say china the brics nations and i being india because it suits some people that india and pakistan should have such enmity and cause such violence there on the line of control we partitioned our country so that the people about is than want to do it will be happy they are a country in the record but they seem to be just obsessed with their india and

they're jealous of me and want to really never progress next i don't know the chinese do maybe they're friends at the moment but a bit too in private conversations with me express. shock at the fact that trainer terrorists from pakistan come to see jon and a lot of problems so i don't think it's found as can go around on any country in the end because everybody seems to be dissatisfied of them at one level no. you have is not going to stop the central plot pakistan plays in chinese plans for development as part of it's a built in road initiative surely. but i think the chinese that i'm not putting on taxes now since the one nine hundred seventy seven. i have been many times that was received by those helping and that anybody was that have done a lot of things for the indian government themselves but i don't say that the

chinese. are not going to do that project into you and it is all over foolishness presently sources or pakistan you see this continuous rhetoric against pakistan and i mean when they run accuse the pakistan. or these terrorist groups in pakistan of killing twenty seven iranian revolutionary guard corps they came to a sort of agreement about maybe a wall why can't india come to the kind of agreement with pakistan that they're on the. there are lots of events as facts not all of them have ever been broken. no doubt for. batters on the battlefield with the troops forty seven hundred forty seven hundred sixty five thousand in land in sixty five and one hundred seventy one and one hundred ninety nine and the bugs i need just don't improve just one hundred and they lose all their last of all these aren't it so. that is don't understand

that there are no match for us and in military sense but still there it will wander in this it's a matter of perception i think or is the obsession. and your obsession with islam i mean would you tweeted that any of india's seventeen hundred seventy two million muslims glorified islamic india they should be declared aliens and being asked about having but without i mean. this is the problem here no no no it's one of not a problem we have i think if you are going to india to go around the muslims in india as well and insist as a hidden those that does that there did in our d.n.a. is the same it has been scientifically proved and documented in the search of least in the journal of genetics of cambridge of houston and in india and i saw that it was so on beat it out of our family the only thing is that we wanted them to be focused in said india and to be. pushed around by

a hard line elements from our center. but given that world economic funds are looking to east asia for economic growth i mean is it wise to say things like that the carbon mecca should be a hindu temple if the muslims rebuild the their mosque on the site of the idea massacre where it should be said two thousand were killed in one thousand nine hundred two. when i said it was as ridiculous as saying that i didn't say to. must or it it is our lucy this social media tends to distort and you must have the second and it will lead to marriage and i said that this would be as ridiculous as saying that there was originally an issue temple and then there should be a story well which is what here said they are talking only about three messages he was talking about other dampens in india and therefore a hundred light same day and that is this is ridiculous but this how to certainly

don't waste our country's resources and dining to try and change the name nature of the. song and yet as speaking of mecca of course you are fine with wahhabi islam i mean you are you've been encouraging saudi investment and saudi the eels that kind of islam is is the one that you favor as a possible plot the rather than you know be more moderate islam in pakistan you know if it were that but everything in my having relations with them would be my moderate it that it's a hope maybe it's a false hope but we have a whole saudi arabia has problems it has it is facing terrors of it as of their own and we have got two million indian workers there and therefore we we think that by having relations and that we might be moderate nedda have isn't

and i don't know us because obviously brics it is the big issue here at the top pradesh has a population of two hundred million people any british officials come to see you yet about the trade deal with the u.k. . leave it of course on the twenty ninth of this month. i don't think it should be should return to see me because the n.t. balloonists anything new still about seventy one trillion. those from india hundred fifty years they were here so they would most of the british probably away but. just installed in chief on us to get seriously mean and merry go there are sure. these other countries which need to be we need to develop into relations britain is not magical to us in the seriousness and there is a military factor which is also here. i do have.

to remind thank you after the break from jeremy corbin's labor international development course talk to jason pickel on his solution to global inequality and to breaking free with the way to kids who after playing buckingham palace is now using his saxophone to support what's with the civil rights fights every expelled by jeremy corbin's labor party over civil coming up to have going on the ground. thanks guys is financial survival. well reducing lauer. that's undercutting not what's good for markets it's not good for the global economy.

the thing i. think i want to. focus. on he. was. well i think i'll. keep looking. for you think nothing. of the night.

welcome back one thing the world wide web celebrating thirty years to more was supposed to do was to make the world a more equal place but in fact if you ignore the success of communist china there has been that will change sixty percent maybe still involved so what is the solution joining me now is dr jason hill anthropologist an old friend of the divine made a brief guide to global inequality and solutions he sits on the u.k. labor party's international development task force thanks so much as in the coming on more of a you finance ministers are meeting in brussels china's congress is meeting in beijing in the u.s. talk of war and that is where the but there is. a green deal your latest piece is about growth what is wrong with growth so the idea that i may come out to this is simply that's it's you know the green the green new deal idea is fantastic and we all absolutely must get behind it but it was one potential flaw and that's that it doesn't address the problem of growing energy demands and so effectively we have to have to reach not zero emissions by the middle of the century on our present growth rate trajectory in terms of growing global g.d.p.

and so on we're going to expand the size of the global economy by about three times in that same period which means almost three times more energy demands which makes the task of switching over to renewable energy three times more difficult than it needs to be and so the argument i make is that we need to actually scale down global energy demands and the best way to do that is to scale down the material throughput of the economy so basically rich nations like the u.k. and the u.s. need to consume less stuff in aggregate there are a whole bunch of initiatives that you recommend. use a complete ban on corporate built in obsolescence and the right to repair and the idea for any business is to increase turnover of your products and so if you make long lasting products that you know people use for their entire lifetimes of course that's a horrible business model right and so if you're under pressure to grow as a company you're not going to think much about long lasting products but we can we can create laws that will ensure that businesses do think about long term long lasting products by legislating for you know mandatory. extended warranties on

things like washing machines refrigerators and so on so they can be easily repaired by the provider in the first place and so that's the idea to sort of to make it possible for us to live in an economy that doesn't need so much material throughput ok love has been written about private public space in this piece you're saying that there's a corruption of the public space by the big tax dodging multinationals relates to the question of reducing our material consumption. so advertising puts us under extraordinary psychological pressure to consume things that we don't need or even really want to. of course this is another strategy to ensure that turnover increases and material throughput continues to rise and again the proposals that i make for reducing material consumption needn't have any negative effects on our standards of living this is just about consuming less unnecessary stuff this is just about having products that are more robust last longer that we're happier with for a longer period of time and so on so this is not radical demands then when you were advising labor when you were on this task force would you be saying that

a cool been government should as one of its first acts be to declare a climate emergency so the idea to merge yeah so the idea of a climate emergency parliament should declare has come from caroline lucas the leader of the green party and i absolutely back her one hundred percent i think it's a fantastic idea the idea behind it would be to create the legislative context necessary for us to push through the things we need for a green new deal we have to we have to cut the u.k. . emissions to zero by twenty forty five that's an extremely dramatic trajectory we need all hands on deck for this i mean this is not fiddling around the edges of our system this is trying to invent a different kind of economy that's not so energy and the missions intensive even the in this book the divide you make it clear that inequality is particularly important and you're saying that there hasn't been the kind of progress that some bragging about say bill gates founder of microsoft. do you think that philanthropy

is still being talked about as a idea to get rid of inequality i think the idea of using philanthropy and charity as a way of addressing poverty inequality is is deeply problematic actually because. you know what it fails to address is the structural structural components of the world economy that produce inequality and poverty in the first place and you know we know that right now the global one percent capture an extraordinarily disproportionate share of global income as a result of the way the rules of the economy are structured charities you know the philanthropic approach that bill gates as adopted for example doesn't address any of those fundamentally the most fundamental imbalances in political economy and that's really what we need poverty is declining ninety four percent is eight hundred twenty to ten percent yeah it's a very very powerful narrow you say it's rubbish i do say it's rubbish sure yes so the merits of the bill gates uses to say that we've had this dramatic reduction of poverty is based on an extremely low poverty line of

a dollar ninety per day right i mean imagine trying to live on that i mean it's virtually impossible even in the even the poorest countries to live a decent life on that so if we really you know if we use the best scientific evidence that we have and look outs and measure poverty by about seven dollars a day for example we see that a significantly greater proportion of the world's population is in poverty and we're talking about about sixty percent of the world's population is in poverty according to the very robust research led definitions then tourism a. and the british government says repeatedly to jeremy corbyn over the dispatch box one million fewer people are in absolute poverty a record low under this government the key question is how you met you know where you saw the poverty line and how you measure what absolute poverty is and that and the problem here is that there is significant fudging of this definition right because think about it if you push the poverty line lower it makes it seem as though there are fewer people in poverty and that's effectively what has happened with the with the world bank moving towards this extremely low poverty line and not

adjusting the previous managers like basically oh i mean it's an insult to humanity to suggest that people are living on two dollars a day are not in poverty and so that you know the very minimal gains in income that the global poor have achieved over the past couple of decades don't come anywhere close to bring them out of poverty and that's again why we see you know four point two billion people in poverty today you said that if you take out the figures from the communist party in beijing for china the whole figures for improvement on inequality. really disturbing you also make the claim that a tax on the one percent could leave them with an average of one hundred thirty five thousand dollars a year and all global poverty how do you arrive at that. given that the global one percent have such an extraordinarily disproportionate share of global income every year. you know they capture about eighteen point seven trillion u.s. dollars per year and come together so even just taxing them at a modest progressive rates would be enough to end the global poverty at seven

dollars and forty cents per day called in his long been interested in these kinds of ideas you've compared to the news against the kinds of things you were saying about about policies in terms of corbin and alexander as to the nine hundred fifty three ca who in iran if you read the history of the cia backed coup in iran in one thousand fifty three. their strategy was simply to buy off newspapers. put the journalists on the payroll and then start pumping out propaganda. and we apologize for interrupting the program but we want to bring you some developments russian experts sub just concluded a news conference on the latest official report by the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons or o.p.c. w over last year's deadly chemical attack in duma i'm very happy to say we're

joined live on the program by one of the experts from the news conference alexander schuller permanent representative of the russian federation to the o.p.c. on the o.p.c. w. findings. well like we said. the report to the problem i did by the technical secreted. more exactly the fact finding team he's a fool. and discrepancies and inconsistences and. these are just preliminary assessments by the russian experts we shared these assessment with the people of the press conference and were still walkin on this report of final conclusions will be provided a little bit later one of the aspects. by the o p c c

w where the alleged witnesses at there are thoughts on that. there have been criticisms of a bike them about what they had to say what concerns do you have about them. well we know or to report by the fact finding team just regard it the bretheren organized here. in twenty eighteen with the on the wooden. witnesses the unwilling comedians the syrians they. took part in the video. performed by the white film and there is a small no in this report or something to the effect that alleged weaknesses brought to the last year provided some statements and.

the deal with like information from open source is somehow all these very important information provided by the so. syrian's. these beliefs in the boards are dismissed and the only reasonable reasonable explanation that he used that. he did meet. or that it was all aboard the prevarication teach prevarication in duma. you need to in t. . he t. in these would do deny the united states and their allies the legitimacy to the claim to for carrying out of the missile strike on syria on the eighteenth on the fourteenth of april last year if i can just pinpoint in some of the o p c w report because detail is important why do you think they didn't

take into consideration the fact of rebels having used chlorine gas on previous occasions. it's quite surprising you nor or more broadly syrians have been reported to p.p. to evolve to. secret caches of chemical weapons. we sure discover that. the syrian army. pushed forward to liberate the territories from or terrorist groups and hit some or pointed to time technical secretariat decided to provide some kind of technical assistance to the syrians the sound of your group of experts and effectively the checked or some bare hall says the shaw of.

glory and bar else both find the lair he did not a book called because of the only conclusion. made by the these experts was that he bought some of commercial purpose your norm we saw all these bottles but. these bottles so could be. bought in you where this is all coming purpose but you know in one scene he said both. find these are poor in bottles. in sweden. but just another theory to find of these bottles in syria. the armed conflict is still in form so. this is exactly the same theme that happened with this report

in do almost sixty live there was a. they are homeless with exactly the same time of chlorine virals. the expert did not. accepted to inspect them. and that it was too dangerous to minute relate to these items. russia's come under considerable criticism the u.k. envoy to the un current pierce has been quoted by russian media as saying russia is trying to throw the o.p.c. doubly report into the trash and indulging in flat earth science you have a response to that. will turn to be very very very well constructive. where not to question and the hold the technical secretary of experts were due to work further. actually

i am surprised by this statement you would refer to my experience or dealing with the british people in months. has been so far very positive. poll. very well educated but maybe in this case trying to follow the example of the american call it was just. recently. russian prime minister dmitry mediated of vision to luxembourg on the evil days to visit the american ambassador to luxembourg through either to teach or luxemburg authorities how to deal with the russian chief of the government and russian prime minister or said to the american deployment should the probability throws so here's a or knowledge a bold diplomatic signs what happens we know that

a lot of western media i clits have drawn up their own conclusions before anything was actually concluded or finalized do you think that that has put a pressure on the o p c w at western politicians as well has it had any effect. well hi i do think that there was a kind of pressure. on the investigation last. one you.