i know. your new break. through. further debates and division right across europe over the fate of children of islamic state fighters. in a syrian refugee camp after the woman's u.k. citizenship was revoked. which is citizen the baby who. died because our government didn't do anything to bring that child back to the u.k. . we did the wrong thing he put the safety of this country first and foremost. human rights watch accuses a rocky and kurdish authorities are routinely torturing youngsters suspects that of having links to islamic state. u.k.

student is taking his university to court for expelling him over. facebook to the christian father of four who says homosexuality goes against the teachings of the bible later this hour. from moscow where of you are today thanks for joining us on the program. parents of a french woman who was killed after joining islamic state in syria appealing to president three children in france are currently living in a refugee camp in syria. more details. of the case that involves a young woman. who five years ago ran for syria with her husband they told him and they supported his. state until she and her husband were both

recently killed in allied airstrikes now her three children are still in a refugee camp along the syria iraqi border called out for now the situation in the camp is dire indeed some sixty five thousand people are going to be housed there malnutrition is right it is not enough food is not enough medicine and she's a mother who lives in the north of france has appealed to the french president upon to allow her three grandchildren she joins her here in the. records or so that she was doing in the whole camp on day five the conditions are terrible there is no room they've been treated worse than animals these children didn't ask to be born or be taken there they're the victim of the choices made by their parents now there are currently some two and a half thousand children who are being coulsdon syrian refugee camps and around one hundred of them are of french all region and french nationality this is an issue

that is hugely divisive here in france around sixty seven percent of the population says that these children should not be given permission to people back to this country but there are other cases that are also making headlines this is the recent case this time of the new slum mixtape wide of british nationality not chummy much bigger was found at the beginning of last month when she was pregnant but we old son recently died in a syrian refugee camp and this came as the push to show the security state that he was rufo king but british citizenship that announcement was both criticized and supported the tragic death of show me a baby a germ is a stain on the conscience of this government it's against international law to make someone stateless and to leave out the whole noble young woman and insert child in a refugee camp where we know infant mortality to be high is morally reprehensible.

bill the home secretary failed to british child and he has a lot to answer for it's absolutely tragic that a baby has died and of course i understand this is a really terrible problem but on the other hand the job of the home secretaries to protect all the people in the united kingdom if you have had advice on what was right thing to do and i totally support his decision we failed as a country to safeguard the child this was an entirely avoidable death of a british citizen there was no attempt to help by the home office i think it's shocking how the home secretary has treated this situation summit begum is our benefit day she our region she left at the age of fifteen from the u.k. she joined the islamic state in syria when she was found you know everything she can do the last month she said that the wish was to come back to the u.k. and head coach there but at the same time she also said she did not feel great joining islamic state now all of this comes as fighting intensifies over the last

stronghold for the jihad this week in the terror as it's all province we are hearing from senior officials of the syrian defense forces that hundreds are islamic state fighters have surrendered but at the same time hundreds more obvious fusing to surrender and so the fighting continues. for ever and is as islamic state loses control of its last throw of trees in syria it does appear a sizable number of almost all wives are not regretting their decision to join the militant group. there was a little sympathy from some of our guests for the woman who's essentially kick started this debate and we will be going. with go blank piece in white with pitiful sentences she would have walked away with a pitiful sentence in comparison we also are absolutely you know might be her was that she didn't do anything that would have been let's say the act of terrorism but

also puts a smile to kweisi face in this country if she can report on trial she should be put on trial but this is a woman who just weeks ago was just before the month to bow me of the grand day concert in which you know all those children died and she was just in four years and you know so you have to think the. level of indoctrination if any child abuse i put you citizen should be brought to this country and frankly i think there should be forcibly it would move from the parents who put them in their support. which we would then be. you might if you break the child away from its mother so we couldn't it was said there was no other option on the subject of being certain equations don't i have taught them for his bravery if you look at the

front look at belgium you look at germany and how many islam is terrorist attacks have actually been committed by people who have returned from syria then i wouldn't be glib about six. feet in suicide and that said when not going to join them. we're going to maintain our values of humanity the rule of law and justice and we're going to we're going to allow it and we're going to put on to. i'll be very happy to see years in prison for a very long time for crimes we've got to make sure that there's safety and protection for those children will be held to account and then there's going to be a global conversation maybe through the international criminal court to actually hold these fighters responsible for the crimes that they committed. human rights watch has released a damning report exposing torture and abuse of youngsters suspected of having links to islamic state in iraq the group says iraq in kurdish authorities routinely for

suspects some as young as fourteen to confess using harsh methods report features a number of first hand accounts. and if there are too short. to me a shot at me and so you know quite low. it is. grown in the spin and. in order to tell the big age of the. little boy. you know what mr average i what i. just had. enough that i visited a lot and. my family. a lot of our viewers and for. you know her and there was the better when i had an affair. with the brother and. the report describes the kind of torture to which the detainees are allegedly subjected among the methods said to be

used by kurdistan regional authorities of beatings with plastic pipes and electric cables as well as the use of electric shocks and stress positions. according to human rights watch at the end of last year iraqi and kurdish authorities were holding some fifteen hundred children over their alleged affiliation with are still at least one hundred eighty five fallen short and also been convicted on terror charges and sentenced to prison terms we heard from one of the people behind the report. iraqi authorities or no vote or abuse from the. kurdish there have charged hundreds of minors acts of terrorism because of their alleged presumed belonging to a islamic state these prosecutions very often rely on very you know dots for my positions because if they are based on confessions that were tortured out of the kids. those children are number one considered us

combatants who are trying just as adult combatants and that is not fair that should be the international law is very clear and considers that children who are recruited by armed groups should be considered first and foremost i think that those who need rehabilitation and reintegration into society rather than imprisonment and torture. we recommended the government the iraqi government and purchase orders to immediately free all those guess who have not committed a crime as for those who are suspected of having committed crimes and other violent action well sure they should be tried but they should be tried accordingly to international. minors in all cases we recommend strongly that there is no practice of torture anymore and that investigations are open jewel hauled all the perpetrators accountable these are the recondition that we have addressed to

the kurdish and the iraqi government and we are to expect to get answers we're still waiting come until now allegations from the iraqi government the country's counter-terror laws do provide for the detention and trial of anyone involved with us so that applies even if they have not committed violent crimes and only played support roles for example working as cooks or hospitals. when israel is self-proclaimed interim president cohen go door is currently at the opposition held national assembly as it debates whether to declare a national state of emergency over the country's blackouts and humanitarian crisis we can show you live pictures now from those talks i mean while the united states is ramping up pressure on venezuelan president nicolas maduro u.s. national security advisor john bolton says that momentum is now on the side of opposition leader one point zero one they have not sought to arrest go i don't know and the national assembly in the opposition and i think one reason for that is

that maduro fears if he gave that order it would not be a big but i do think the momentum is on the side of. the president when duros says the ongoing power cuts in venezuela result of cyber attacks by the united states i do not his government's working to solve the issue in terms of self interim president one word or asks for outside intervention to end the political crisis in the country old quarter. street filings tough talk from the us and now nationwide blackouts what a perfect time for the self-proclaimed president of venezuela to invite a foreign power to meddle in his own country. the solution is intervention and washington looks ready to oblige what would make you use the u.s. military in venezuela it's an option we continue to say and we always will run the table all options are on the table all options are on the table all options are on

the table all options are on the table because they always or it's no secret the u.s. has a soft spot for foreign interventions and they've picked the right guy for it as he's in no mood for talking in must be very clear to the world and to this regime that nobody will take part in this fake dialogue. if you go i am committed to international dialogue today to. and doorways of course shooting first and asking questions later doesn't leave much room for dialogue fake or not and of course much of the population doesn't want war at all and your fear is from other countries cannot happen over the hands of the venezuelan people we chose nicolas maduro not. that long ago i do he's calling for in fetal war because it is a war against all the people of venezuela it is venezuela that should solve the problems of venezuela the us should stop interfering in other countries affairs you know we don't want war we want peace and it's not just the venezuelans who disapprove just as america's interventions in iraq syria and libya are all lacked

international approval so the un leadership has already made it clear it wants no further escalation are you worried about the risk of internal military confrontation or even foreign i hope that. the. foreign intervention in both america long ago gone there's a reason waving a big stick at sovereign countries is frowned upon the democracy promised often turns into a drawn out military occupation not to mention the bloodshed needed to even get there the majority of even the opposition themselves oppose a military intervention so his position in support of this is definitely a minority one and any sort of intervention into the country of military intervention as we've seen in other countries like syria and iraq. will not be like the military intervention there will be bloodshed don't be destruction i'm really quite chaos for the country. russia and syria have heavily

criticised the latest report by the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons on april's alleged chemical attack in syria alexander shulgin permanent representative of the russian federation to the w was among experts presenting concerns at a news conference in the hague in the netherlands. to r.t. . the report to the problem i did with the technical security to. more exactly the fact finding team he's a fool. and discrepancies and inconsistences. these are just proved in their first months by the russian experts of final conclusions who will be probably would have clearly told me to which. the initial report by the o.p.c. w. was published on the first of march it concluded that a toxic chemical containing reactive chlorine was used as

a weapon however russian and syrian experts know the fact finding missions actions were not compliant with the chemical weapons convention they highlighted concerns over the collection of testimonies from witnesses both in syria and abroad here b.c.w.s. accused of politicizing the reports and is criticized for suggesting that syria's government is to blame experts also found a lack of neutrality and objectiveness as well as distortion of facts and examine there are appears to have been external pressure on the organization while it was preparing the report. well her i do think that there was a kind of pressure. on the investigation last to. one year practically. and it was a. to see mind not transparent syrians for instance for instance going to talk to a receiver they are sure all the props props got looked at. all

the all the incident but it took all maybe six or seven months for that took nichols security order to assure with this year in this process my impression is that the technical security experts simply did not do to contradict the version put forward why did americans. who didn't hit eighty two days you could nato the shooter not told it to. mean culprits. based on this conclusion the. peace corps he pulled the fourteenth and. incidentally just to pick up all the fuel powers before the eroei well in damascus or the. technical secret to. infringements on the right to freedom of speech and thought starts are you case at

least as a scribe his expulsion from university for making antigay comments on his facebook page felix and a girl will appear in court on tuesday as he bids to have his expulsion overturned go is a christian father of four he expressed support for clark in the u.s. state of kentucky he was but jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples and got added that homosexuality is against the teachings of the bible and quote a verse describing it as an abomination he was later summoned to a disciplinary hearing where he was a. cuse the breaching university guidelines sheffield university in the north of the u.k. has expelled him from his social work of course a decision up held by a high court ruling that decision has raised concern in the christian community. the court has ruled the domicil goal is entitled to hold his biblical views on sexual ethics he's not entitle to express them but freedom to belief without freedom of expression is no freedom at all this ruling will have

a chilling effect on christian students are pinned down the country who will now understand that their personal social media past may be investigated for political correctness this isn't the first time a christian has been removed from his place of study or work in the u.k. due to their beliefs in twenty eleven housing trust manager was demoted and got a forty percent pay cut after saying a gay wedding in a church was an equality too far four years later a nursery worker was fired after criticising the lifestyle of a lesbian coworker both appeal the decisions and one cases against their own players for unjust dismissal well we can be joined live now by the expelled student himself for mr felix and bowler and mr keith best former chief executive of the immigration advisory service gentlemen thanks both for coming on today this is obviously an issue which is raised controversy emotions on both sides the question here keith perhaps if i can start with you on this i mean the high court said the student was entitle to his thoughts i mean isn't this in gauging

a form of censorship by not a blurring of somebody to express or verbalize those thoughts on a private social media page. well the history of libel and defamation is quite a long and changing one first of all freedom of speech is one of the most essential attributes of a liberal society and it should be preserved wherever possible but even you know article ten of the european convention on human. rights recognizes that freedom of speech has to be old where it can cause real damage to the reputation or lives of others my view as a lawyer is that you should stop short of denying what the lorries so if the law says that people are entitled if they're gay to be married then that should be carried out even if people may have personal and indeed religious reservations

about that with i think you know this is this is something which is not universal unfortunately you know you go to the united states for example i mean it's commonly known that you cannot defame the dead well in seven states in the united states there is legislation which says it's contrary to the law to defame the dead in saudi arabia if you defame the government it's charged under terrorism legislation so it's a real hot spot around the world you've only got to look at turkey and see the last of crackdown on freedom of speech and terms of the press there and you realize that country is going to a very nasty place. and of course you're training to be a social worker and outlook going to be people from very different backgrounds very different opinions walks of life etc i mean isn't part of that profession being a social worker showing empathy and understanding and tolerance of all people

regardless of their religious views of their political views and of their sexuality . yes of course your you're completely correct. i am a christian i believe in tolle arounds i believe in love. that's just the central part of my theory you know to lot of people i love people it doesn't matter where that their hatred homosexuality it doesn't really matter be a background to me it's insignificant you know our care where you know i've demonstrated that love true out so. i don't see a problem here because i love people and their background doesn't really matter to be. worked in several different capacities. and i've got you know if you look at my background no complaints have ever been made against me

my employers have always been pleased with my where i completed my face work placement at the university of sheffield and i did quite well no complaints were made so i've always demonstrated bad north you know towards people and not something about continuity to. our guest this is this is where that discussion is between sort of laws and legal technicalities and judging a person based on character i mean keith of i can get back to you on this i mean mr mr gurlitt didn't commit a crime he wasn't actively discriminating against people of different sexuality she wasn't inciting violence i mean is it really fair then that the universities you know quite arbitrarily taken matters into their own hands and decided to exclude him from from getting an education. i think the problem here is one of degree once you start down the road of curtailing freedom of speech because you don't like the views of people where they're expressing them then where do you stop and you do

end up in a kind of police state if you're not careful so i think it's really really careful you have to be very careful indeed but where there is a group of people who feel very strongly about a particular issue to she then say something which is almost deliberately inflammatory because you know it's going to inflame those people is something where . my colleague spoke about needs to be. put into play that we need to be restraining him what we say where. it is going to deliberately inflame matters that sayed i think where the division between. all freedom of speech for me i think freedom of speech must always trump the matter because it is so important that we should not go down that

rocky road of starting to restrict people's freedoms. felix and keith does raise a valid point doesn't he of degrees and of what's deliberately provocative an inflammatory of course university is a place where people again come from all sorts of backgrounds all sorts of walks of life here did you not think when you were posting that comment on facebook that it could upset and offend other people at university and is the universe not right for being concerned for the welfare and for the wellbeing of people that could perhaps feel marginalised and offended and hurt what could be perceived to be quote a inflammatory comment. well the thing is actually if you look at the debate our direct christiane and i believed at the time that these people were genuinely wanted to know. they'd be bleak out stance on same sex marriage so i did exactly what you know the one i actually

provided answers to what they wanted to know provided try reading and. you know i just provided you know i didn't make anything i just provided answers to be questions that people told me so intense of meat paste cv that it should have been in flood matri to those people who wanted to know the truth and the truth is very very important i don't know why we should be scared of actually speaking the truth just because we're going to often say to people you know freedom of speech is free don't most. speech we should respect freedom of speech you know. you know we shouldn't just believe in thirteen aspects of freedom of speech we should be able to express those beliefs swear without fear of being reprieved mandated by maybe an institution already off me so i was actually direct and i responded to

that. and i feel that is what is important here i responded to the question i was truthful i didn't make any information that's what the bible say's the bible is god's word is a legal thing that had been used in this country for generations you know we use the bible in the court of law you put your hand on the bible to do you know to take an oath it is illegal it is an important pics so putting the bible shouldn't be something that we should see as you flatter me tree because it is the word of god the truth is it is an interesting point you raise because as you say you. comment in the course of a debate you're saying you're somebody giving them specific information on the bible and on that i'd like to ask you again because universities are a place of learning a place of debate and discussion or place of debate and discussion where people

form their views discuss their views. i mean if ideas cannot be freely exchange what out you give you the universe to getting into fearing getting you know interfering for the for the fear of people getting offended does not not distract from learning in debate process. keith keith go ahead on that on that with your thoughts. yes yes indeed well the trouble is i mean you have to bear in mind felix mentioned that when people go into a court of law they swear on the bible they also swear on the koran they also swear on the holy go to ground as well if they're sikhs i mean they they swear on a number of religious texts and the trouble is with assertions rather than the scientific facts there is always the danger that you are going to offend people because particularly in religion one person's truth is another person's lie and.

when you look at the opera how many faiths are all from i think more that unites rather than divides people of those three major faiths nevertheless there are significant differences and you can very easily offend people if you are asserting that what you believe is not capable of any discussion or dispute and i think therefore it's a national of new orleans it's a matter of the way in which you present these things to actually engage in debate and assertion should be a process whereby you engage in debate you stimulate debate not merely make in the social and leave it that. way from it sort of case it's going to continue to attract motion and discussion and debate and nuance of course as you mentioned that

will form a big part of that so we've got time for for now thanks both for coming on the expelled student on care worker felix and go away and keep the past former chief executive of the immigration advisory service that spoke today for your time. thank you thank you. as the headlines for this hour from the team and myself thanks for staying tuned a lot international back in thirty minutes with more global headlines. time after time so we're going on the ground as u.k. politicians prepare to vote on britain leaving the european union in just over two weeks with no deal coming up of the show but teen years since india gave the us a scrutiny of its nuclear weapons program.