and again there's plenty of very very real evidence for this written up in many different places you know whether it's the denial in relation to the link between tobacco and cancer between c.f.c.'s and the ozone layer between passive smoking and cancer now with climate change they simply deny reality because it's inconvenient to their view which is that the rich should be able to do whatever they want irrespective of the consequences on anyone else and the simple fact is that if the if we want a functional world in twenty fifty we have to accept the fact that there are there are enough people on the planet now that it hugely matters how we use the earth's resources and it is simply unfair on any any take for the very wealthy that have caused many of the problems through their over consumption already and i include myself and people in this country in that it's deeply unfair that that is having catastrophic effects on millions of people i just come back quickly as one of the things that john said yes we are living longer yes the ability of modern medicine to keep people alive is

a remarkable development in the last sixty years but the consequences of the way we're living more and more destructive to the oceans to the forests to the soil to the water to the rest of the species on the planet the i mean there are any number of negative consequences and you can bury your head in the sand but you know because you have a rich privileged life where the world's resources flow to you or you can look at the reality of what our children demand of us in terms of change now that kind of simply cannot be ok we we have unfortunately i just want to point out to our viewers we have had problems with the connection with johnson fortune we've intermittently kind of regained a lost connection with it so it's not a chance to speak unfortunately but that explains the situation and we have run out of time of afraid to say we have got john back i want to say many thanks to my guest former republican state senator john lauder and to social environmental justice campaigner with a campaign group extinction rebellion that is george bonnet thank you gents. indeed

out of time i'll see you with a place and often are. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics. i'm show business i'll see that. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle the

brags that saga continues this deeply divided british house of commons can only seem to agree on one thing it doesn't want the u.k. to leave the e.u. without a deal the problem is there isn't a parliamentary majority on what to do next maybe this was to resume plan all along briggs's death through inertia. that i'm joined by my guest we're now in paris he's the chief foreign correspondent of the figaro in london we have george galloway he is a broadcaster a writer and a former member of parliament and also in london we have alan skip he is a professor emeritus of international history at the london school of economics right gentlemen cross-talk rules in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate george let me go to you first here we've had. two very disastrous votes for estimates plan. there has been a move that there there will be no exit without

a deal. deal is supposed to be voted on again like the two first votes it doesn't appear that that's going to move forward and you have the european commission basically saying that's the deal you negotiated with there's a little wiggle room maybe for invoking article fifty but not much more than that they have pretty much put up by a stone wall here where do we go from this because like i said in my introduction one a cynic and i certainly am. saying this was planned all along go ahead george. i don't think saw of course the conspiracy theorist would be hard pushed to come up with a conspiracy which had one just as perfectly as this one as it happens because i know the people involved personally i think it's more a cock up a series of blunders and in our the courses that have led us to this particular pass but in a way it doesn't matter whether it was intended or whether it's

a series of accidents the british parliament has betrayed the british people with grave consequences for british democracy because more people voted for bricks it than have ever voted in britain's history for anything or anybody are not going to get it and they're not going to get it because of the actions of just six hundred fifty people indeed in the recent vote just four people four people made the decision not to keep no deal on the table and if you don't have no deal on the table you have no possibility of a negotiated settlement as any negotiator in even the simplest house knows if you as you the right the determination to walk away if the price isn't right and if the deal isn't right then you're more or less handing to your interlocutor the power of life and death over your you know yeah but alan e.

well where do we go from here because what i said in my introduction there is no majority in the house to go in one direction or another i mean this is the ultimate stalemate but the clock is ticking and as i pointed out the european union is basically saying we're looking at our watch what are you guys going to do go ahead alan. well i agree very much as what george galloway said the elite in parliament has betrayed the will of the british people i think what's going to happen is that mayor will try for the third time to get dreadful agreement pos in the house of commons if it is passed then of course we leave with that agreement and we leave quite a. if it's not passed then confusion reigns i think she would have to have a general election i think the government's a shambles if they look so great when you go in but i want to end it but a general election won't solve the dilemma will it it'll just be a different person there go ahead alan well lionel's hold the dilemma but it will

get rid of a lot of people and paul that would the new independent group would probably disappear labor i think would be would suffer enormously i think the be a purge inside the tory party before the election and there would be a different house of commons and. they're off of course we still have to dial emma if if the deal hasn't been agreed then i don't know the new house of commons might have no deal but as it stands at present you're right the new obvious way forward but i think a general election like hell put these to clear things up now let me go to you in paris i mean as a on the continent yourself looking at all of this going on here. what does what is the perspective of the you you hear i mean they have a deal they've made it very clear for weeks and weeks and weeks now that a deal is a deal big make keeps flying over trying to make you guys budge but you're not so i

mean it's is it seems to me that you know she doesn't have much of a learning curve and is to resume a good negotiating partner when it comes to this whole dreadful process go ahead in paris. i mean in the continent in paris it shows us three things first thing is that. david cameron made a mistake the up to go to a referral for internal affairs for the conservative party because actually you know british democracy is based on the house of commons for the last i don't know eight nine center is there sure a lot could go into these kind of latin instrument which is a refer to the no no no no it's not really a mess and hang on hang on alan hang on to me if i lament in this farce the second thing if i can keep going what do we think of the continent the. the second

thing is that. there was a deal agreed i mean you cannot negotiate between the very difficult to dig between one country and twenty seven country so michelle money was given a mandate by the twenty seven but the twenty seven are not going to change their minds all the time it's too difficult it's a technical question so. and after all it is about britain to adopt they decided to draw in european union after refusing to join it join the common market in fifty seven general de gaulle that warns them twice that they should not and could not enter the world of the spirit of the interests they still want to entered and then they made a lot of problems through the european union so. you know the you have to you have

to understand that the european countries from the continent quite upset and quite tired of this false and they want just you know you want to leave or not i mean they want to feel they cannot spend. dollars in this kind of i guess. i get your point here let me alan you want to jump in here but i'm not locked and so i hang on hang on here i knew this was going to happen yeah that could i just wanted to say what we heard or sang out we heard a point when we heard in the british house a lot of promise for the e.u. but the lot of the british voters it was the e.u. that was a problem i just correctly i can i just i know your question of. now let's go alan go can i just say on the question of referendums that. people should not trust them just to get on with it on significantly constitutional questions like scottish.

and the election of them for london we now have an established tradition that parliament and. the population to decide these issues and referendum and we abide by the results i know the fed should a referendum in two thousand and five on the constitutional treaty they voted it down and then the french government paid no attention to it and the lisbon treaty which was the same thing was ran through the fed palm and i do think we need lessons and referendums from the french but many cases we have a tradition of abiding by referendums which are not part of our constitution we had a referendum the people voted to get it and the people's you must be respected otherwise will be a popular backlash joe in georgia i mean the elites failed and not the people go ahead george we don't want to give you a lesson so good on three of you go listen our problem is on how do you know so this we were just. seeing this part don't miss your part don't miss your let

someone here in london talk we have been a net if you think that the british democracy with is part. of it with you we don't think it works very well for the. secret was a ranking we don't i recognise joe large galloway george galloway go ahead. with a net contributor for forty five years so we've been paying more into the e.u. done we ever got back second and you would never. suspect it from the french but. not sure because we've got to your your big friend. go to check back my dating show you that shows shows what you know that shows what you're going to get back into the union treaty you're losing on your blow yes he got this these are brought back on government. the. e.u. they hate the austerity they hate the european central bank the reason you can't

have referendums on this in. most of the european union countries is because they would vote to leave also it is completely absurd this false dichotomy between latin a nod to democracy democracy is democracy is democracy we were asked and we were told it would be binding do you want to leave we've hurted to leave leave we must and the more we hear of that kind of our drivel the more certain i am that more people in britain today would vote to leave than did in twenty six can you and i we have a minute before we go to the break let's go back to paris please react. yes it's a pity that too you see britain when they join a club they have to make your refund. every generation because remember that after joining. you know government joining and then there is

a labor government government coming to london and they said oh maybe we have to do a reset on them though they made a referral on them and if i recall well but mr galloway will come to my help i guess two thirds of the british population had approved to join this club though they knew very well the rules of the club you know they had plenty to. tell you the rules of the club that was the cause and. twice during the conference. yes it welcome your monologue and then and then then. and then the approved because you cannot move you up with all right out. of i have been here gentlemen we're going to go to a short break here then we'll continue our discussion on briggs at stake with arc.

breaks it comes down. it's up to the government to step in and be a player in the economy not just an enabler for monopolist you know the government should be competing for health care and drug prices they should be competing in transportation and education and they should offer an alternative people should be able to get a public utility bank for example account and get out of the matrix of the big wall street banks they don't have that option they should have that option. therefore you would restore some competition.

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter remind you we're discussing rags it. ok let's go back to allan in london it seems to me that the for the political elites in both political parties in the u.k. the major parties have failed they had

a two year deadline to get this done and it has been incompetence after incompetence after incompetence and and that's why i started out i mean you one has to wonder if this was intentional because you have a prime minister that is a remainer negotiating the exit i mean again that's comical on its face all right but you know if if alan if one thing i see from the european position and because i look at what's going on in the populist movements in europe and the collapse of the center for the most part of this entire european union project here is brussels behavior and disposition to the u.k. during this process actually also a signal to all other members of the european union to stay in line because if you want to get out we're going to give you hell and watch what we're doing to the u.k. alan go ahead. yeah i think that's true martin selma who's now heading the european

euro chrissy's made it perfectly the brussels that britain has to pay a price he thinks surrendering on london should be the price but it's quite clear the populace discontent in europe is growing and growing mr mack called when he was last in britain was asked on television if the french were given a referendum what the result would be and he said they would vote to leave but then he added of course i'm not going to give them a referendum the french had a referendum on the maastricht treaty which illness and when the people think it was rigged it was close and then they had one of the constitutional treaty which they voted against me in the french of distribution of having referendums as well because on the great issues of the day when you're voting on your national future and who makes the laws and who decides that is such a fundamental choice that it has to go back to the people it went back to the people here and the result astonished not only the elites in the british political

parties but this stone age the elites in europe who had been assured by david cameron that he would he would win. the people voted there that the european union is unpopular among a large large a majority of the british people they want it and they want a clear break and the question is for you if this is a lived without a price being paid how many other members of his failing you know pin union would follow because europe is a disaster and economically the european currency system isn't working it's led to the crushing of the greek economy and recessions in southern europe unemployment in the e.u. is twice as high in the rest of the and years and is twice as high as in britain use unemployment in southern europe it's twenty to forty percent you're getting. two to three hundred young europeans coming to britain voting with their feet to

get i'd to the eurozone every year to come and get jobs in london or in britain if we had the situation with one hundred to three hundred and young brits were having to go to europe to the euro zone to find work because we had high and massive unemployment then i would say there was a case this thing in the e.u. but the e.u. economy is failing the eurozone is probably going to another crisis a new player very quickly and yet these people in britain can understand why on a rational basis people would want to get out ok all right i mean let me go to georgia and keep going with this here george i over the last few months have been extremely harsh on to resume and her parts of her tory party but i want to be fair here more balanced here how is labor behaved through all of this have they acquitted themselves with on or indignity because you know they're just recently talking of a second to referendum which to me again is

a slap in the face to democracy i mean democracy means democracy doesn't it one a vote outcome should count shouldn't it so so evaluate labor's behavior during all of this. well up until comparatively recently i would have said the labor leader jeremy corbin whom i've known for forty years. blind are in terms of parliamentary tactics he had maneuvered the government into a position where it began and is now excel or it almost to fall apart but labor put the mark of cain upon their own head when the announced quite recently in the last few weeks that they would support the so-called people's bought the for support didn't involve people or as if it was you know donkeys horses and sheep that had voted the first time and when it did that allowed people to the right to brand them as the anti breakfast party as the anti bricks that maneuver us

conspiring and i'm unprincipled way and saw we now have basically two labor parties and two conservative yachties trucked inside a single first past the post electoral system and i don't believe it will survive this crisis referendum changes the political part of diamond countries and it will change this one in a very profound way even the losers of referendums never accept the result really here we've got the win the arse of our foreign. now literally cheated in front of their eyes by a privileged elite group of parliamentarians that can not withstand the kind of blizzard that's coming their way ok we know back to you in paris i mean if there's a quite a bit of animosity there in the british isles and in continental europe on this program so why don't don't you might why don't you have the attitude good riddance

and good by ok i mean if britain is such a nuisance to the e.u. then good riddance i mean does it have to be nasty go ahead in paris. no it does not to be nasty i'm in still the thank for for britain for its role during the second world war will never forget that great britain churchill welcomed charles de gaulle in london. and we'll never forget that britain. campaign for us to get a seat a permanent seat in the security council of un we have a defense agreement with britain which is called lancaster house because the defense. of defense of course will never work so we have this agreement which is very strong and we are very close to the british and when the british had problems

with the argentinians in eighty two the americans drop to the british but the french went to help them so we are very close to the british and we want to do is to clothe their very good friends it's very it's for me it's a quite a pity to see a country destroying itself but after all it's up to the people why yes it is doing this because you know for me the whole policy of britain for the last three sent to raise was two things keep a foot on the continent to remember that it was important for them to be parked and to be important in the congress of eight hundred fifteen to keep always. a foot on the continent and the second. pillar of british policy was keep. british islands united in one nine they have sabotaged they have destroyed all this

policy because they will not keep. a foot in the continent good chance with the relationship with america. only and then they they will destroy the unity of the british islands because i think that the scottish people want to remain in europe so it's very pretty because we have a lot of respect for this great country which is great britain but will always be friend we just do not understand me ok well i do not win the war and i wish another side of my wings of the david cabdriver words british prime minister after lord north well i think the competition for the worst prime minister is you know what you could spend a lot of time on because there's a lot of candidates recently ok. could i you know i also i just want to finish off in paris where i mean you do have a nato footprint ok in europe so i wouldn't be so worried about not being in europe

you're there and go ahead. could i just say that you british history is quite flawed the great british eateries are uniform i think if it was a dramatic silly thing great you know now i've got to ask and to alan alan the great british to do should form policy was actually to remain independent and to make sure that continental europe was never united that on the the spanish the hapsburgs the poleon the kinds of a hitler and we stayed we didn't have the food stuff and in britain we were in europe we stayed outside and europe and getting into the european union was quite against the whole british foreign policy tradition and i was going to correct that i hope by getting it. i think the british point of view is that you it works best as a collection of friendly slightly competitive nation states who take from each other

the best practice commercially intellectually philosophically with their common the market the common market was the goal but was that golden age of growth after the second world war was the cause. yeah. but did nothing and nothing to do with the you that's what i ruined my point that's my point exactly my point is when in fact if you look at growth patterns since the unification of the e.u. it's slowed down dramatically and yeah it's a movie and it's already market and its trademark is austerity that's its trademark deal the more that you know the more the european union integrates the slower its economy becomes. and now it's the sort of slow it's growing part of that ok i want i want to give george i want to give george the last word forty five seconds my friend finish and i did you know advice can you. give. her a way to go and visit poland go and visit in poland just a little advice go and visit both and both of you. because i lived there for ten

years. out of. love with you think george tenet your version of the. not far from mosco. twenty second short we could tour we could tour the body or of young unemployed right across southern europe we could we could make a trip to the smoking ruin of the greek economy we could go to italy we could tour of the heart is wrong and we will find that the european union has less support inside europe than it has ever had and the reason is that it ceased to be a common all right on that began i know you aren't. going to tell me i'm sure held in many thanks to my guests in london and in paris and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember rostock rules.

russia is not an ideological scarecrow russia is a real neighbor with whom will have to leave it always being in nato e.u. or wherever. it's for us to go to russia to talk for russians and to understand that. most people think to stand out in this business you need to be the first one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand down lose business you just need as the right questions and demand the right answer.

questions. like the. terror attack in new zealand mass shootings at two mosques in christ church kill forty nine people many thanks to five are in a critical condition. standing on women especially when luke and i think oh my god oh my book is what happened to me no it was unbelievable and even plenty to. cover the back doors just. three suspects are now in custody one of them is said to be an australian national who allegedly lifestream to tug on facebook social media companies.