hello and welcome to well it's a part of the american policy in iraq was never a smashing success but apparently there is still a lot of room to make it worse the secretary of state's recent visit to the region all in the name of curtailing the arena influence was full of bold proclamations and quiet reversals what does the trump policy in iraq ultimately come down to will to discuss that i'm now joined by mayor should have done far an iranian israeli middle east analyst and lecture at the into disciplinary center. mr jenner done for thank you very much for your time and sort of for bungling your name. so ok no problem i guess i'm not the first one to do that correct now my initial idea was to

discuss with you this latest bout if american diplomacy in the middle east but i think we need to start one week earlier with a speech that mike compared delivered at a conference in houston in which he sad that russia invaded ukraine to get access to oil fields and that iran is pretty much doing the same in its own region now on russia ukraine he basically wrong whatever motivates moscow's policy on the ukraine it's not or oil but what about iran east attack really after energy no it's not a question of energy i think it's much more about influence. iran wants to increase your strategic and geopolitical reach in the region this is something that every country wants to do and the iranians want to strengthen their muscle and strengthen their reach and strengthen their influence and to use it in their part of a balance of power game against united states against israel and the saudis and at

the same time i think the iranians want to increase their leverage in the region as a means of us part of a power play within iran because there are parts of the iranian political establishment who want to focus more in work iran has many domestic problems but there are those who want to focus on wars and this again iran's middle east strategy is part of the power of power play within domestic iranian politics and as you pointed out many countries do that both on the regional and sometimes global level and yet in his speech secretary perez sat without a hint of irony that there could not be more of a contrast about how america uses its energy sources and how the leaders of the islamic republic of iran use there and by the way he said there are no there is but on substance do you think he's right. you know runs a very or a very rich country in terms of gas and oil resources. america is now one of the world leaders in shale oil look at this time of the living of course america is

much richer because of other reasons a bigger country with access to two oceans huge country or the same time there are many people in iran who are very angry that iranian rulers the regime has not used the oil money to build a diversified economy there was after forty years of revolution it's a little bit embarrassing for some iranians that the biggest export that the country has is always when you take into consideration there are many many thousands of tens of thousands hundreds of thousands if not millions of well educated iranians at home and abroad well but i'm sure you know that many americans are also pretty unhappy with how dire government allocates their resources i think the question is different the question is that the americans have always to mix politics and trade especially trade and hydrocarbons that's the basis for their alliance with the saudis that's what they do in europe with lho being against the russian gas pipelines even if political calculations go into the rainy an energy sales aren't they dwarfed by the american product. well the iranian iranians are at

war with the with the u.s. but look at the end of the day it's different you know for america america until now has not had its own oil resources so yes oil has played a very big part in in its foreign policy a world in its power projection abroad in russia you don't have that problem russia is a energy rich country so in america it has been part of part of the goal for his foreign policy adventures abroad we see it not always but in iraq certainly played a part and for iran to see the you for you run the question of oil is how it uses it at home how money is distributed inside iran there are many people who are very unhappy away the way it's distributed now you say for and it's all about the domestic use and yet particularly singled out the iranian gas and electricity sales to iraq as an example of that malicious influence of the us just a few days later his own state department on the recombination of the pentagon issued a waiver from the sanctions to allow iraq to buy electricity from iran isn't it

just still little bit inconsistent from inconsistent its power you know it's they try to use their own lives on the one hand. on the one hundred americans are very much trying to isolate iran in the region on the other hand they realize that there's only so much they can push them the iraqis get forty percent of their electricity from iranian gas you will not find it many countries if not even one country in a world who is willing to cut off forty percent of its electricity that's not going to happen so that creates a problem for. the problem for the u.s. government is that look i hold the iranian regime very much responsible for its very aggressive attitude towards america in israel but at the same time america to walk out of that human being was a wrong move it has left america isolated so another little bit nervous that because they're isolated because america because the europeans don't support them because the russians and the chinese don't support them you know their reach is limited under the sea. with iraq the con the con push iraq too much because iraq is

relying on iran for gas and electricity and one of the reasons they can't push iraq too much is because i think at this current moment there is simply no alternative to the iranian electricity remember last year there was a temporary halt in electricity exports which sparked violent protests on the streets of bastrop with more parading through the city and attacking the symbols of the iraqi political power i mean whether the trumpet mr likes it or not aren't the rainy and energy supplies crucial to the america's own objective of keeping iraq relatively safe. preventing it from imploding once again that's correct and i can argue with that but look i just don't get what's the wind of such demands when they clearly could not be accommodated without risking and not the outbreak of violence and when you have to walk them badly just a few days later. again trump doesn't know if he has looked trump is going to go

run for elections in twenty twenty to show results will come out of iran there was a boy has been a major part of his foreign policy he sees it as an achievement so when the americans go to work in twenty twenty you don't want to say ok what did you do with this did you get iran to return to the negotiation table. and for d.m. to say yes i did he needs to have iran so isolated that they do come back what as long as iran is dealing with countries such as iraq it makes it more difficult in terms of perception it makes it more more difficult for him to say that you know that i'm isolating iran that the iranians are going to come back to the negotiation table. this is a you know this is a this is a very flawed design when you have something that has a flawed design if it's an aircraft that from the beginning it was a flawed design you're going to meet problems sooner or later i'm american walking out of the iran deal was

a flawed strategy this is one of the consequences now the iranians have long been pretty skillful in turning the american failure to their own advantage do you think they will do it once again this time around with iraq i'm not sure so shocks are we have to take a broader view your focusing too much in my opinion on iraq i think the bigger issue for iran is what's happening inside its own borders people are of course people don't like what trump is doing to them but from what i can see people are in iran are very very worried about the issue of corruption you know in tehran there are people tomorrow is the persian new year first of all happy new year to old your iranian audience and anybody who supports who celebrates nauru's you know people are having problems buying. you know buying food or buying old the stuff or nauru's confectionery under some people in tehran who driving got season portion just really angers people i think for iranians that's more important and this is likely

to be to kill his heel as much as iraq iran success in iraq is notable and iran can use it to turn it against americans but that won't be enough iran the iranian rulers need to put their own house in order and what's happening inside iran i think is creating more enemies for iran's role as the trumpet. could well the reason i'm focusing on that is because this program is primarily about foreign policy rather than domestic of any particular country and let's have me that i think the issue of wealth inequality is perhaps even more pressing in the united states otherwise they would have elective donald trump i guess not as much as someone in the united states and nice to have you have a judiciary that's independent but we are not comparing these two political systems we're talking about how they're exercise power on the international stage and on the international stage and it looks to me that the americans despite all their power doing it in a very inconsistent and the kind of way that truly defies the logic you said that

the logic was flawed but i'm struggling to see analogic of making a bold statement and walking it back quietly just a couple of days later i mean that to me at least seems to be undermining the credibility of one of the most if not the most powerful country on this planet some of those the trumpet ministration have much credibility to begin with i don't think he does but look the americans have a strong economy they use it as leverage they use sanctions in order to get what they want just as russia uses its strong forces as leverage to get what it wants every country tries to use the area where they have a competitive advantage over their rivals over the side that they're facing to get what they want sun for the americans it's now the economy and i'm not you know in terms of iraq look at the end of the day. i don't think iraq is going to be the make or break when it comes to iran ever returning to the negotiation table just as

trump wants them i think it's a question of trump if trump is reelected and iran has to face another four years of trump then i think bring back the iranians reluctantly but then again i don't know how they could trust the americans after the walked out of the nuclear deal but iraq is to be honest it's a side show i things. syria's much more important roxanna for in terms of america and israel facing off iran now the issue of an id you was not the only news item to come out of this trip also hinted that the united states may designate iran's revolutionary guards as a foreign terrorist organization if that's worth your happened it would be the first time washington designated a unit of another government's military as a terrorist group is that also an empty threat or do you think it may actually materialize i don't know if it will return realized but. i hope it doesn't and to

realize the revolutionary guard is extremely unpopular in iran the revolutionary guard is. carrying it's got a huge economy conglomerate which is very corrupt inside iran the revolutionary guard is and they injuring. the life of my family and my my compadre it's an israel the revolutionary guard is supporting the most brutal regime in this region which is president bashar al assad i think it's a very welcome move trunk does that i rather him sanctioning the revolutionary guard than fighting it. off course will have implications of the revolutionary guard will push back but there's not much that they can do in syria to be honest with you because in syria thankfully for israel and saudi arabia the country that has the upper hand is your country it's russia as you know russia has a totally different take on the reins revolutionary guards they managed to contribute to reading that country all the foreign terrorist forces that many

governments including by the way some speculated israel supported in that country so i think you can understand that as much as you dislike them it could have massive massive implications for global politics aren't you troubled by the those implications. you know in syria there were three hundred thousand dead civilians. you know a course there were some isis people and some extremist people but the israel didn't help them that's a myth second of all you know i miss the bashar al assad for years he was a transit point for jihad we're going to iraq to fight american forces he was a big pile of there was a jihad these and now he's trying to portray himself as somebody who's fighting terrorism and all of the respect that he's not trying to portray anything that countries facing it was facing a major terrorist onslaught and it's well documented for you to minimize minimize the input of the saudis the americans and i'm sorry to say these release is i think a little bit analytically unfair if i can put it mildly i think it's very sincere

to say that bashar assad has killed more civilians in this region than any other or any other leader in the past two decades recently more than people who led the. campaign against moammar gadhafi in libya you really think that the syrian the war trumps everything else that has happened in that region including the pad the palestinian issue as well i'm not trying to minimize it but the fact remains that in terms of the leader killing his own people in terms of a muslim killing his own muslim people by cheryl assad has killed more than saddam hussein bashar assad has killed more than. and of course bashar assad has chilled more muslims than they've been killed in the palestinian israeli conflict you can check those numbers well i actually checked those numbers and i think my stance is very different from yours but anyway for the time being we have to take a very short break but maybe we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. so

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race off and spearing dramatic to follow through the only really i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk.

after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to sort of go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to suppressing. one theory. i'm going to talk about football not for you or else you can sink i was going to go . by the way what is it that flying here. welcome back to worlds apart where the mayor devitt down for an iranian israeli

middle east analyst mr jefferson from just before the break we talked about potential ramifications of designating iran's revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization and i think it's not only iran that could be affected take iraq for example there are many iran's supported act. within the iraqi parliament. it could also undermine its new and still fairly fragile government and the americans do you have something to lose i mean they maintain a residual force in iraq around five thousand troops do you think their security will be taken into consideration when the decision about the r r g status is being made correct. they will but let's not forget that during the after u.s. invasion of iraq iranian probably iranian forces and iraqi forces linked with iran were responsible for the death of more than a thousand american soldiers so this is something that the americans are aware off

and i think if they do go ahead on. labeled i.r.g.c. as a terrorist organization they will be distorted of america settling scores with for killing their soldiers in iraq and i think it's likely to take military action against i mean it's a sonority old to make military action against u.s. forces in iraq and i think the americans this time will who will make will undertake much more forceful measures now just days after middle east tour the iraqi defense minister travel to damascus to discuss with his iranian and syrian counterpart as the opposition to the u.s. his role in syria it looks like the american rhetoric is pushing the iraqis into the reins hands does it not look the rock is or in a very peculiar position they're in they have the face between iran and saudi

arabia and turkey to have to be very careful how they play the superpowers of course no one no country like star foreign forces on their soil i'm sure the iraqis don't want american forces on the soil but for now you know america sana was very very crucial in terms of fighting isis in iraq if it wasn't for american help the people the popular militia forces. by iran and have close links to iran many of them they would not have been able to defeat isis they try to fight they tried to invade numerous occasions and despite massive numeral numerical superiority they could not beat isis which was a smaller number until i repeat until the us air force came about well you know also for effort getting by the presence of the russian they are a force on the ground but i will let it slide russian air force in syria has been crucial but in terms of iraq it was the americans russia russian air force has been crucial in fighting dying very much so without

a shadow of the doubt but also russian air force has been crucial in bombing opposition forces who are nothing to do with well who also have to be a pretty radical and extremist agenda groups like al nusra no not all of them know obviously not all of them not all people who kill for killed in the rag by american forces reported terrorists but they were killed nonetheless and you know that this is how war unfolds i mean israel knows that from its own experience sure and so does russia absolutely and i'm not trying to pretend that russia is on the somewhat higher moral ground here that's the american position i think most of the time now let me bring you back to the iranian iraqi diplomacy because i'm really interested in how it develops that meeting. that i mentioned in damascus came on the heels of what some described as a historic visit by iranian president hassan rouhani to iraq and i know that you

wrote recently that she raises important questions for israel what kind of questions. in israel it's our interest of the moderates in iran have a stronger hand they like israel they don't like israel it's just because the moderates in iran such as president rouhani know that iran faces one of the. strongest and the most devastating drought it has ever faced and iran needs to look inside more than outside rather than challenging israel needs to challenge its own problems so the question is will will will the trip to iraq strengthen his hand domestically and unfortunately no because in iran is the revolutionary guard on all the old you know regime affiliated organizations that have the stronger hand they have much better access in iraq they have the rocket fire not the iranian foreign minister unfortunately in israel for israel not because rouhani likes israel but unfortunately for us in iran who want to focus internally are not going to increase

their leverage as a result of the systolic visit to iraq you know some i have to tell you i'm iranian as well as israeli i lived through the iran iraq war for seven years we left iran a year before it finished to watch an iranian president go to iraq like that is just for me it's incredible but internally the side that wants to look internally and to reduce tensions with the outside world didn't come out stronger as a result of this iraq wasn't on and that's a disappointment for us in israel you said a moment ago that israel has an interest in the moderate forces prevailing in iran and to me that wasn't evident at all in. reaction to the iranian foreign minister zarif shortly threats a commission i mean there was quite a bit of cool loading on that in the actual spire the bow that he's departure he almost a credit for that is israel really interested in the moderates gaining an upper

hand in iran now you're israel doesn't want to run back was this let's not forget that israel was the only country supporting iran during the iran iraq war we face in israel iran you know you run a regime denies the holocaust it is called for the elimination of the state of israel certain members of the reigning in the regime do. nyholm accost not all of them i'll send you know what i'll put it on when you put this on facebook i'll show you the text exact text from supreme leader ayatollah khomeini who called who called the holocaust sana out son in persian means it's a myth just like you'd call a cinderella story of sin there are lots on it so he's a holocaust denier but at the same time natanya who look. netanyahu is a populist politician who only my opinion wants to stay in power yes iran is that enemy of the state of israel and her people on it and he always very much guilty of using the iran issue and abusing the iran issue and exaggerating the iranian threat

for his own purposes and i think what he did recently was. against it as much as i disagree with that if i don't like him yes netanyahu wants to see the moderates out and i think this is very wrong and hopefully in the next prime in the next elections in israel we're going to push natanya all out of power i'm going to have a much more sensible leadership in israel towards all of our problems not just iran's was the issue of palestine and of course course towards the question of iraq you mentioned the upcoming elections in israel and there there is speculation at least among foreign policy analysts that one of the purposes of comparison was to kind of bush that electoral chances do you believe that that that to be the case and i really hope that's not why he's coming here i would resent any foreign politician be there from from the united states or from mexico or from madagascar coming here to boost the chances of this party or the other if he's here for that

and i completely condemn him and i think he's here for other reasons look trump an attorney now who are kinda spirits you know if that and you know was in the prime minister of the state of israel he would make the perfect tea party. congressman in the united states i think they're kinda spirits they look at things in. very much in the same way and we're going to go is not going to go to europe because the europeans resent him for what he did to the iran deal so he let me go through his ordeals which is mr netanyahu on and of course the saudis also backed america to pull out of the iran nuclear deal for their own reasons now what i find very interesting is that while trump's approval ratings are pretty high among the israeli jews. his standing with the american jews and the american public at large is not that impressive do you think this association a very close association with trump is going to serve israel well in the longer

term you know. diaspora jews are incredibly important to us they're incredibly important to us you know this country was created after many people here sacrificed their lives but maintained its presence on existence not just because of a strong army but because of a because of a very strong diaspora relation i challenge you to find many ten buildings in israel universes which were not donated by some diaspora jew from the united states we are incredibly indebted to them for their help and i think netanyahu cozying up to trump has hurt our relationship with the diaspora we see and this is this is something that's of great concern and this is one reasons why i hope netanyahu loses in the next elections and why i hope trump loses in the next u.s. elections because this is damaging our relationship with our brother and in the in

the in the u.s. jewish community well we have to leave it there i guess we will have to wait and see whether your predictions or at least your hopes work out in the meantime i really appreciate your being with us today thank you very much for your perspective . i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going on our social media pages and here again same place same time here on the. the part of. our.

i want to give a shout out to get up on soldier that a. little some of that left foot and i thought it was the one. most of us are those of. the bush. years and i'm saying not to give them a mission i second that how you met and myself and. how much that you who committed the passage says the war isn't and never was never imposed by now. but i love and the wealthy in america decided we're up playing anymore we're going to just grab as much as we can of the cash out there in the system and put it you

know offshore and that's why there's not twenty two trillion offshore and so there you go out of credit in the system shrunk the sucker bagus out of punishing the banks the slot of the system with more of the fia money and then those who are the paranoid have yachts versus the have nots decided you know we're going to put them . so they just keep trying and shipping it off shore and completely bypassing the economy and so the economy is getting more starved for credit and the people are getting more.

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