won the first round of ukraine's presidential election although he doesn't have strong policy positions maybe that was his greatest appeal though he made it clear corruption is ukraine's biggest challenge fixing ukraine's very serious problems is no laughing matter. crosstalk in ukraine i'm joined by my guest. in london he is a political consultant and foreign affairs analyst also in london we have alexander make your us he has to director and writer for the duran dot com and in sonoma california we crossed to john jordan he is a political strategist right gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate what one of my rules of my

program is a week i go to the person that got up early is for this program and that goes to john good morning i hope you had your coffee my first question is what kind of game changer is this election in ukraine it's far from over but we have a comedian that won the largest number of votes and we'll talk about the people that weren't allowed to vote in this election as well go ahead john in sonoma. it's there are two primary factors of this campaign as you pointed out is the anti corruption message which is clearly resonated the other piece of this which hasn't been talked about so much is language there are two pieces to ukraine while there's a strong national identity there's a portion of the ukraine which speaks which is russian speaking and recently mr mr poroshenko there's been language bills making ukrainian the primary language blocking russian language websites and so forth this is illegal is a russian speaker although he is a ukrainian patriot and he may actually hers and then splits the ukrainian speakers

with us to push and go ok alan tend to make me. so in places on the military hating russia and basically creating a schismatic orthodox church i guess that didn't go too down too well with the electorate because at the end of the day if you look at the disenfranchised three million russians living in ukrainians living in russia that weren't allowed the franchise he got in you take into account the turnout he got about nine percent of the vote go ahead alexander well i think that poroshenko his whole approach has flew full and very flat because he has set himself up as the strong national leader leading ukraine in this conflict with russia and it's quite clear looking at how ukrainians voted that they don't want more war they don't like the economic crisis that ukraine is still enough in the country still facing an industrial

recession wages still fully they don't like the corruption and those all the issues that really concern them nor all these national issues that poroshenko for the election on and it seems to me that you're perfectly right to say that selenski doesn't have any very clear policy positions so the way to wonder. stan this election is not so much as a vote for the lenski yes as a vote against poroshenko and all the things that poroshenko stands for which is when the line ukraine has been following since the events in mind done in february two thousand and fourteen so it is an affair a repudiation of that policy and you're perfectly correct if those millions of ukrainians who are now in russia had been able to vote they wouldn't probably vote

even more for selenski and poroshenko share of the vote would have been even less in radio is going to you in london it is quite remarkable image still could happen but it was remarkable that you didn't have tory and nuland visiting during this election here i mean there was no overt western support of puerto shank oh though he was their candidate when he ran the first time go ahead in london. well that's very true i do agree with you but i think the last one scandal with the defense procurement scared out of americans from being involved in supporting the support of junko and so we know when for misters it is key first of all is the. corruption scandal related to the defense procurements related to the son of the close of business partner mr poroshenko and the other one is the fact that mr leask is a well known actor and he claimed

a president and he and then he seriously called servant of the people and so and and the main character who is the historian lecture. became the president because of the fact that he was against the corruption so i think that those. serious are resonating with the mood and the spirit within the ukrainian society which doesn't want to see any longer professional politicians who are for office and they want to see an ordinary man because mrs i think these are ordinary man and his campaign was conducted through the social media and it certainly resonated with the young generation so i think if this can be the same. old mr donald trump the people are shifting thrones or professional politicians to the people who are easily accessible all resonate with the general mood of the nation

and misses and indeed is resonating with the general mood of the nation you know john let's go back to california i mean. that's a very good point that we just heard here because a you had yulia tymoshenko obviously put a shank a i mean these people have been in ukrainian politics in government for the last decade and a half i mean they certainly known quantities here and. this is a rejection of the the dominant political class because well you may try to with the orange revolution they tried it with them i don but they're still not. serving up the goods as it were to the population because of the trade policies that ukraine has against russia against its own national interest here i think that there are other people there are many people who are saying the status quo cannot stand somebody has to stand in do it now and if he can create a power base and support and attract institutional support those are all huge questions go ahead in california. absolutely this is an election which is more

against something than for him things that was i don't see is essentially an empty vessel in a lot of ways with poorly articulated if at all policy positions but he plays it he is the character he plays on television which is remarkable but this is about this is about being against the status quo this is english vernacular erica vernacular we call it a screw it election this is trump all over again now can he survive will there be well with mr list i think mr zalewski wins this election but how he how he fares is an open question because the entrenched bureaucracy at all of arc is going to be very very hard to remove now if the ukrainian economy were very strong it would be harder for him to win and easier for mr pershing co but i just don't see this to push goings on alexander macarius let's go to you in london with the fat lady has been sung i'm so i guess i'm going to get in a lot of trouble i suppose it's politically incorrect to say but i said it we still have around to here and push and go has enormous enormous administrative resources

and particularly in the media here. it's not beyond the realm of possibility that some event some provocation could still come into play here. absolutely i mean it is not over there still is and a second round mr poroshenko knows ukrainian politics very well he's got all the levers that he can press paul president of ukraine he has massive resources behind debate where he will probably as the more experienced candidate hope since that selenski has polled almost twice as many votes as poroshenko he's riding the rejectionist the anti-establishment vote in ukraine and on the would you sought that the people who voted for the surge and for candidates this is too machine and mr boyd call are more likely to support him in

the second round so i think it would be an upset a major upset if selenski doesn't win but the problem is it's all very well to say you know that he's this populist candidate who's winning because he is against things i think the problem is given the problems of ukraine what you need is not someone who is just you know a vote because he's a negative you need a somebody who has a sort of more transcendental mobility to take ukraine's problems moving forward has the political weight in north or ity to actually start to address them at this moment in time aren't far from sure that's pretty mildly there's a lenski is that person i'll get in our wait and see but you know our i have no great that he's going to be able to make much of an impression even if he wins yeah

or ukrainian some of their hopes have been dashed time and again ever since their independence or ariel it's talk about the nine hundred pound gorilla in in the corner and that's either a column or the oligarchy. the. there are sources people report make claims that they're very close to and we know what that means that the oligarchy will continue to shift and mold the politics of ukraine the very origins of ukraine's problems are these people and the way they run the economy for themselves by the way go ahead in london. i would be very skeptical with. you know. the lewinsky is a part of the an insane and i don't say puppet i didn't say puppet go no i'm just i'm just relating to the character the you know to the newspapers here in london and in the united states calling him a puppet so with all due respect i just want to make clear that the fact of the

channel one plus one all by mr hall noise here where the servant of the people he's serious were. playing in the main character is the one thing also this program and the voice of strong support with regards to its t.v. star but does that mean that he will be in the pocket of mr cuomo ski well oh this is the new because as we probably know in the united states and western europe officer i gotta jump in here i'll let you finish in return we'll go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine state with our king.

she used to do when i was. mad he was like. you know like. when i was a baby boy i had a bad child. there's always playing single mothers and african american communities and it's insane. it's more of a teenagers having kids in. you can expect a fourteen or fifteen year old first daughter now order for and if you're far there any check out. lost their place and. my car end up breaking down i was unable to get to work on time sunday let me go in with my pay check that i bring home i have nearly enough to pay my car insurance.

the gas in my car. you know world of big partisan. lot and conspiracies it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. desperate for a single purpose. they have a superman. they start training very young.

eight months of intensive school. their reps. and they saved lives.

welcome back to cross like where all things are considered i'm peter remind you we're discussing ukraine. ok let's go back to in london you're right before we did the break we were talking about the influence of all of that could it be on this candidate here i would like to posit something for all. members of the panel here i think a lot of business interests are really sick and tired of how go his beard the economy and it also has a great deal to do with official kid as i call it. post my down here and there there are attitude towards russia well it is really wrecked havoc on the economy in theory you know you can redirect the economy a country's economy in a different direction but the european union certainly is not interested in much of what ukraine makes and and the official kiev has been denied the russian market it

seems to me that and i'm not singing the praises of color money scheme but i'm sure people like him are saying look this this is a dead end we're not going to be embraced by the european union any time soon we're considering all of its problems there has to be some kind of weird pro schmaltz with russia and i know that's very hard in ukraine right now but there seems to be in opening at least in london go ahead. the that was a very good point that i've made in a my report presented for the. boardroom think tank over the report tiger will tighten the sanctions on russia you are saying that in order to resolve the ukrainian problems ukrainian people need both europe and russia because this is a country which is leaning both over the way which is european union and this is a desirable young joc younger generation of young people there and also. with

eastern potus aligning towards the other towards the russia and i think that the unifier mr zinni give a list of all of them is a is an entity is a perfect state for doing this i mean we have to understand that no one is capable to resolve this so deeply rooted economic problems and core and mentality problems within the engine society within one day or even one term so it is ridiculous to say that old mr poroshenko almost does it if you will resolve something you know it is if there is a base not only a political base or business base but it is the desire within the society dan the real change can happen and this is what it's going to be and i would just point out to my other colleagues in the panel that little abundant there the so far the political conclusions or kind of collations which were. done before

breakfast and and coming to power for president on no trump because they fail and i think that is the same template will be. that will apply the new game the new generation my generation is fed up with the professional politicians and people who are well known within the political sphere and political clout. because most would be interested in. and this is what just like every well everywhere else in the world here john you know it would be very difficult because of the political discourse in ukraine now in the ukrainian ization that petition and co is pushed so hard with his. very dubious allies these militia groups and far right as others are going to say is that this track is not working we have to try something else go ahead in california. you know there in the

late mr zilinskas path to victory over there to ukraine's or the russian speaking part and there's the ukrainian speaking part which is in this case is a russian speaker but he's also come out what allow the russian speaking people to be marginalized but he also speaks ukrainian as and is acceptable to the ukrainian speakers so he will carry it did do overwhelmingly well in the south east ukraine where it is predominately russian speaking and then he split the other part of ukraine with mr poroshenko now the big question here the nine hundred pound gorilla in the room is what does this mean for russia and also for my country the united states the fact the matter is that western europe and the european common market has sold out the ukraine i mean they're building the north stream pipeline they want russian gas there bypass the ukraine the ukraine is only being kind of used by the west as a foil to putin but they've really it's really been disappointing how europe has treated ukraine well i well i you know your past look at its own national interests

and and i would point out to our audience is that north stream and south stream and these other pipelines were only built because ukraine showed itself to be an unreliable energy partner and they would they had no choice but to do it ok well no i mean ukraine destroyed the pipelines they siphon it they stole gas they didn't want to paying for godsake i remember twice into a two year. two years in a row on new years up at midnight wondering if there's going to be a gas war if that problem is resolved because ukraine ended up being not a reliable partner and it and russia continues to ask them to be an energy partner and they say no so what happened it wasn't the europeans that led the the the ukrainians are holding the bag it was the ukrainians themselves that did it and they have to be able to work with russia and and the european union because you know what it's in between it's always been in between and you can't take it from one side to the other i've been saying this for ever since the orange revolution

alexander a curious way and. yes i mean i think what mr zelinsky needs to do is he needs to end this conflict in eastern ukraine and sort things out with the russians he needs to reestablish normal commercial links with russia so as to revive the ukrainian economy he has to end the conflict to bring the right wing militias all these various armed men that there are in ukraine or this very heavy national nationalist atmosphere that in exists in ukraine to bring that under control only if he does those things will he realistically be able to deal with these issues of corruption and of these overpowerful all the guards as they're called that have such power in ukraine and bring ukraine to become a normal country as so many people in ukraine want now he's made

some interesting science he's talked about the need for direct talks with russia which is a move forward he's talked about having referendums about nato and e.u. membership which is also a step forward poroshenko try to embed all these commitments in the ukraine and cons. institution here he spoke at he's spoken to people in ukraine in russian the russian speakers there. he's made the wrong signals the big question is given the volatile political history in ukraine the extent to which so many people so many powerful power brokers have been heavily invested in this anti russian policy that has been followed in ukraine since two thousand and fourteen given the large number of armed men there are in ukraine and given the

fact that previous governments in ukraine that have tried to tilt the country towards a more equal relationship between you the e.u. and russia given that those governments of fall that will he be able to pursue these policies now on the one hand i sense that there is an exhaustion in ukraine now and there is a sense of disillusionment with the policies that have been followed on the other i come back to the point i made before does he have the political weight and strength and experience and ability to bring people together that he needs in order to be able to shift the ground in that way i am prepared unprepared to give him you know i i hope he does but you know i have to be skeptical and wait and see ariel let me go back to london you know i mean i have to agree with

alexander mackerras some in you know i know i know ukraine but well i've been there many many times. i have been banned since two thousand and fourteen for obvious reasons i suppose but i mean it is it's really a country of cliques and connections there is a great russian word creature which means ru for you basically have protection i mean that's how the economy is run here i mean i think it's wonderful. this outsider could make an entry on to the stage of national politics but other than his like humor and he's a very affable person. the tools that he needs to push through whatever he wants to because we're not really sure what he wants to do is going to be very very difficult the the admin the administrative workings and parliament itself will have to have good will toward him did have that even happened go ahead in london. well i think that we have to be slightly more optimistic with this regard because i like

having won you know that's why i like having you. think doesn't this is the new from also is not a professional politician he's a businessman so i think we need to abandon this political logic of having a people who are supported by someone and something we know the people who are the professional politicians in the ukraine i totally agree with you peter have the stigma of being crude. and there's no doubt about it but the hope is that this person paying way then just going back to the previous commentator i think does mr president give the perfect person i have a dozen of jewish people to tempt the other five fascist movement within the ukraine because to me as a person also of jewish heritage would be. insane to not being a president of jewish students and not trying to paint

a anticipating an fascist movement. with their nationalism against russia which is insane so i put my hope in mrs in here other ukrainian young people from my generation and the time will tell whether he will deliver something or whether he will be just a puppet or. a person put in the seat or over the. leader in charge of ukraine but i put my hope in mr zelinsky and i hope that he will make such a great president he may want to accept it and when i'm doing what i think we should do is that the first round is over when we have a second round i'd like to have all of you come back and we will discuss the final round of ukraine's presidential election that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks i guess in london and in california and thanks to our viewers for why. that's here darkie see you next time and remember crosstalk rules.

after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the ball different clubs on one hand it is logical to sort of go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people and us old what not to do you think. i'm going to talk about football not the or else you can think i was going to do. by the way what is it that sliding here. social security accounts should have a mandatory one percent of all stock bonds for x. transactions to go into social security so that every individual would say when they become eighteen they've got fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars in there that

they can go spend on college if they want to that's a that is a that is an extra analogy of this economy that's being recycled repurposed regenerated into an ecosystem an economy that is like more mimics that of nature. joined me everything on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us a little the politics school this list i'm show business i'll see you then. it's basically brutal pledging incidents because sadly the baby elephants often do see their mothers out only to be killed but also be cut off unfortunate. i do believe that. laugh and smile i see it in these little ones they all say show next person changes in the. belief.

of god. the. u.k. prime minister says she will seek another the later brick sets and offers to sit down with the leader of the opposition to break the deadlock and part of. spain struggles with the influx of illegal migrants a people smuggler reveals just how the gangs are cashing in on the crisis. people have to get up to spin the buffalo new day out to spend two thousand euro. four thousand new four thousand euro two thousand for a few and hungary says it of course an islamic state commando posing as a refugee might have been issued with a prepaid debit card scheme to help you cope with.