you know i also have a element of calm idea like a comedian lead in elections and i think you have combination of both as well and you have the violence a lot of developments which would not be possible to have in hollywood movies and in contrast to where you with movies it's also you do not have a happy ending then to be expected so this is why i politics is so interesting and that's why i said this and i tell my students a fascinating about this is a very fascinating subject sure they said i think to some extent it also shows how in very deep political norms are in ukraine because the character is the landscape played is not superman he's just a normal decent guy which is taken as fiction whereas candidates who promise to increase passions threefold or to the war tomorrow are considered as real and truthful isn't that strange i think they're like basically. that like like actually just basically promote infection and the same was promoted by

not only by selenski but also by a person. many are as a presidential candidates because of their support to a large extent. on television which is that they are finicky that them promoted by pollution channels who. are owned by oil and gas and so is the only kind it's very difficult to advance to the thought places in politics bizarre that supported the bizarre access to television so this is one of the reasons why you have the most of such a political force in the demagogues and the villains is just the latest there are those of such success of politician who have basically his i feel based almost entirely on the television and he is fictional the president. or you can solution i heard many western observers say that selenski popularity is just another example of the anti us that. bushman trend that we are seeing in many countries around the

world but even really our people fat out with establishment politics or with politics full stop but i think. those key is example of a populist politician similar to. this comedian in the party joins the government in italy this insists this is. the lansky is also costs himself as a. politician as a new politician who with a challenge all day live and in his. living room see the scum of the pollution that he is he actually. cast himself as a basic kind of. teacher who became president basically was able to unite you can overcome and this is the form you got a few politicians from a different sections and also he is also famous assuming that he basically has to

execute the parliament basically and he's on the hands. of the members of his on the council this is a message basically try people to kind of i think establishments the feelings of you can petitions and a populist image of himself now there is there's also speculations now where there is the lansky should accept. a challenge and debate he him publicly and when i think about it what comes to mind is the famous cannady nixon debate which had pretty much the same dynamic an older more experienced more anxious insider or versus a younger or friendlier and more inexperienced outsider. if. indeed debate one another it is at all clear who is going to emerge as the winner of these t.v. battle i think this is a problem of it because here on his election campaign almost. image

a fictional image of himself as a president who came on television shows and in his comedy shows which asked that on stage basically and so he basically the text which was prepared and. and in that shiela debates in the against bush ok here could be a likely lose or make a major kind of a mistakes made significant impact his approach this is too fast too because he didn't excel in the debates so i think for this it is on the landscape not. for two presidential debates in the first though and he basically also the same for the second town because he is not of a. can for confident in his ability to challenge against bush uncle in the television debates of his out actually population and bizarre. kind of ability to control their message and the script that a message is this is one of the problems for the future. professor mentioned

before is keyes lack of political experience is that really sad share competitive advantage in the ukrainian context i mean experience he is rivals have lots of it but isn't that also a major turn off for the voters i think this is his big advantage because in the fast show as a potential candidates like bush i'm going to mushroom call zelinsky is a new politician his new personality in the u.k. you know politics and a lot of you can you know. this isn't biz exists in politicians like bush encore who was in politics in one thousand nine hundred ninety one shankar who was also in politics is made tonight as they hope to have a new kind of new policies new change new politics new leaders a few k. and i think this is helpful for him this is a moment that he is actually because i think the baggage without any of the negative connotations which are situated in his existing put this and in. but you

come up with a shotgun to michelle and he also knows how to work the camera how to work the people how to be a likable don't you think that he's a profession that he's current profession to reach many bill as that is a disadvantage to him can actually prove very helpful in not only earning the recognition of the voters but also keeping it yes i think this is also helpful because his propriety is based just significant extent on his image as a politician less president of ukraine who who he plays on the television the show they put on television show on them. in the u.k. in collusion channels owned by or you got. and. was able basically should present himself in such a fictional image in the very positive light and the one thousand politicians. in the negative light using this foam out of pollution but i think this might be also a problem for him because he did look to actually come play in your the elections

before elections he actually was using the you skip that appearances you have about the monks so they still did not know how he would basically act and what he going to do in the kind of a deal things of like a press conference or do because haitians and you never answer which would require him to decipher the spot and not true pay the help of illusion channels and he actually gave one television through before the elections and this was delayed by say six seconds on his television channel so this is kind of i think the indication of the major problems that he has now i see him that this is not just his problem but in general a problem for ukrainian politicians because ukraine has as you mentioned before a pretty in of in of a just pretty of rambunctious politics but. when it comes to governance it's rather a little. uninspiring why do you think it's so difficult to translate this electoral viber. into you real and good governance and it's because politics

is basically a competition between the different you've got groups and they. fight for power because public gives them. basically immunity from prosecution and also able to. control all the government agencies basically should do business and should become what it is and the only do politicians. like bush of course or they are they preserve the jobs or for you guys like selenski and. and i think this is a major issue for you can see in terms of governance a lot of political promises doing made you know action campaigns actually never implemented and this happened this push on to himself and this might happen this is the lens yes well so you can but this might be actually a disappointment disappoint them if it's let's get with men they should become president the few now compared to the russians ukrainians have

a fairly short political fuse i mean both they you know call the president you should before him were sort of kicked out of office for five years after people voted for them whoever secures the april twenty first vote how long do you think he will have until the people will get impatient i think this is will be very soon as this happened you should go soon after the other civilizations this also happened this bush uncle quite soon after he was elected in the first i went in just thousand foot you know after my down. government after my down led government obviously and you can so this was kind of typical a phenomenon for you ok you know politicians and one of the issues is actually what kind of. media controls they're going to have because the losing place very important though and if. as alaska would be able to utilize such television and

he might be able to postpone this kind of. you know that about this initial disillusionment this his policy if he would be elected by a president as opposed of u.k. and this is not the second even so he leads to the poland and with the have a like the two with elections you know if they would not be a council on this up with all that professor kitchen oscar we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. especially brutal incidents because sadly the baby elephants often do see their mother as.

killed but also. i do smile i see it's a nice little months. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. spearing dramatic development only really exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful ready. to sit down and talk. i think is an outstanding person because he took on the most powerful agency in this

county or you'll be to stay if you look at it from a book. mark was the day that when he was five. most contentious critically he is the first time i noticed something wasn't. pretty much one of the first part of the corruption in palm beach county it's not something that you can smell or things like that it's a nod and a wink it wasn't what i wanted to do. in this county. to go and went to his website began featuring. his family the sheriff's wife and. squash. you know i wish it stop. clinicians and a lot of stuff i believe what i'm doing was like ok you know it's your funeral. critic. i snuck out of the united states.

into russia political. men they know it's bad wolf. welcome back to worlds apart with them i've been pitching all skip but little scientist at the university of out about professor kitchen all ski many observers including your solve. noted the geographic distribution of the votes traditionally or historically in ukraine the west is far more active in voting but i think this time around it's pretty even the with the east how do you interpret that. i think this is a very important issue and i must say in politics and i actually thought by this

that patient doctor patient and publish books are many out the costs and papers on this topic political divisions in the u.k. and the last round of elections in ukraine shows again the basic divisions you support for different politicians but also significant tension. of what their participation in different lesions so let's measure the clan the less than you think. the new can compare to previous elections and i since this can be out there but the show is a fact that a lot of you can use for less than part of a move to as a contest in particular poland and the czech republic because of economic issues because of lack of jobs and placement of like a few in the after after this. a new government into power so this is like explanation that this happened in terms of what their participation in the last elections in the first i want there was a kind of collections when we look at the electoral map and which province is

preferred which candidate what struck me was that ukraine no longer looks like a split country a country split between east and west sure there were two provinces that. voted for pressure to vote two provinces in these that voted for boycott but by and large that map was colored by green by one color is that. perhaps a herald of things to come or is it just joe graphic illusion because from that map of the i think you posted two on the your twitter account ukraine really looks like a united country. yes i think it looks more united compared to what was the case in the old presidential elections and all the parliament elections since ninety and ninety one which i study it is my in my books and made as a publications in the papers but i still think this is major issue in terms of additional dimensions and you can because if you look in chill up of. what it was

the last elections that it's impossible to see that the western u.k. could do this specifically until i just i believe you know what that much more for position call and the mushroom cloud compared to use them if you can sounds a part of u.k. vision of what that part of you can be sure that if for a boycott who has a different policies from bush on call in terms of his election platform so this is actually a major issue and. actually you can there's also the why that because the boss said by just going from the boss which is the focus you see that form you can the help of national media intervention did not actually participate in elections the same applies to kamya and there was a major push on these. this was the next bash since since i'm i don't even so this is a very posh legion which was manifested in all other actions since nine hundred ninety one but it did not participate in this round of elections now i think it's also

very clear from the polls that the voters in the west and the east of the country have some would different priorities people in the west who are far more insulated from the conflict and don't boss tend to be more hawkish while the people in the east are far more in favor of negotiating the. war do you expect any change in the dynamics of that conflict the conflict in dun boss after the elections. this possibility and i think this is if if the landscape will become president if you can think of a big if because of the possibilities of his actions can be counsel for the south that but if he would be a letter this president of ukraine which is very likely based on public opinion polls this with a. strong possibility of some changes that is some changes in the terms of the conflict in the boss but i do not expect this this issue would be

a result as it would be a result the cost more money who is going to be in government to feel good and they're not going to make any major. of concessions. this. make an edge with basically take away some of the feel if you can all that the boss and the same applies to kamya side the expect that even as a lens. his election which might lead to changes in the u.k. new politics and policy too as the bus will be able to there's all of this conflict but i think the big issue is participation of the united states because you know i think they still has basically from the influence on you can do in politics and still would have would be a major factor in this is when they can if you can petition simply do the lansky if you would become president if you can now he's already paintings lenski as essentially a crime and stooge which i think is the biggest fool or in the context of the

ukrainian politics do you think it's believable enough to turn off voters i think this is where you come to but that you push on such basic information and just propaganda their minds me a lot of studying this claims that the body who was opposed to study and policy was a father an agent and so on the biz basically the policies of the soviet union were the same applies to ukraine and this did not welcome in terms of was alinsky. lansky doing the election campaign for the first hour and he was able to be a significant here and person could do the same visit all of his opponents. and the national claim also a question of bush of course is so this message does not this will make the music a know what is because to significant extent it became this caveat that because of its case and you mentioned that it became discredited though that the majority of

the ukrainian voters and i want to remind our viewers that just if you. years ago could barely string a sentence together in ukraine but i think now he clearly bangs on ukrainian after the nationalism as the central pillar of his campaign why do you think he's relying on it to such an extent because it's clearly hurting ukraine's ties not only with its neighbor to the east but also bit its neighbors to the west the poles for example you know i think here he wanted basically to win the elections as a second though and by appealing to his base of the most nationalistic but if you can society and this was successful to some extent because he was a humanist actually a church the second time around by basic and they were i didn't you came by. help of such extreme policies. and the election. issues like language

in the boston conflict with russia and also issue of illusion but he did not actually get a lot of support outside. so here actually he lost even though they know that in the west and you can actually this is my native vision and you know many of our citizens if you can the. kind of which i'm not but actually agents but actually orthodox the orthodox christian legions and the u.k. don't speak english and so his message basically was not that way successful for the second part of elections and this is actually a very consistent visit my thought is that by european polls. shows that you can do more to not supporting such extreme. policies national policies even so this place is where promoted by push uncle and by the media in you can after my down do you think he will have to change he's trying to jump speaking i'm talking about pressure and could he think he will have to change his strategy in order to perhaps increase his level of support on the eve of the runoff here then you said here he

would. basically i think support us off as alinsky but there's the same time a he'll also. the basic is that as alinsky is our national agent and the puppet of oklahoma ski so his like each of them of this divisive issue is about that but i think he is evil not the give him a major boost before a second count so in my opinion. his are just some extreme measures maybe if we do violence off i hope to use ations in what they're chewing this up election such a council actions this based on the possibility of such evidence if he would lose elections because as always he is. again you might be the thought but you could get four or corruption far as a kind of offenses that would be a likely found after he would loose policy i think it has a lot of incentives much lower victory for selenski in the. contest so

this is why it is still is this is this is a big issue and we can see if this happened a month. before the second allowance or do the second thousand for elections you mentioned that the west and the united states in particular still play a significant role in the ukrainian politics do you think it's in the interest of the western stakeholders to allow poroshenko any sort of. provocation to boost his electoral chances because from what i can read it looks like western partners if you create now also interested in seeing the fashion am i wrong on that . and i think it again is our big questions about western policy issue a choice you can because divest from goma is the fact the support of the violent oversaw of of the u.k. and government the government of the in the college which was a partial government but also. kind of a also let's say there is one you guys and this was supported by the opinion by the united states the fact that. there's this obviously was this help

a form of muscle by dumb protests and police by elements of my down open. mission fight against asians so the question is what would be a policy i was a west if a push uncle but i sure there's a jew and wayland or you can select and so on even so the thirty covers the western governments that they support democracy and fear. but first the elections and you can show that this was not the case because of evidence of thought or. kind of all such council actions it is a state accident this incident. came in a bitch so this was i think because she was the best employees who would be if the if there was still support here actions you can because of less than i was does not have to do not support actually democratic developments after my. government well on the eve of these elections the g seven ambassadors in key of ro

then unprecedented letter i think to the ukrainian authorities expressing their concern about the role of far right extremists in the ukrainian politics and i know that you've been concerned about this issue for many years you've investigated the . massacre of two thousand and fourteen but up until recently there was very very little recognition of the of the role that the extremists play in the politics of ukraine don't you think that this belated recognition that it is truly belated but don't you think that it still points to the fact that perhaps politicians in the west that waking up to what kind of forces they brought to power in the ukraine i think this is again a very big issue a letter from just seven of those basic officials that they recognize this publicly because the defense is such a such a slogan feel so far it was the night in u.k.

and specifically also by western governments and by western media folks in ukraine politics they become integrated into. government of ukraine they become integrated in the military in the national guard in the police and security service and this is part of the should now as a help our basic get you over so you can government this help of his alliance of all you've got people that this means so this would be again the still of. issue before and after the second elections because of how they can still. hurt you but i won't. say they got as passion politician and this may be again the beacon still see if. they are say in the u.k. your politics but i think even if the last people managed to win the elections still if i thought. they basically were on low and the few would need basic i just because a few films of such fun i think musicians so this is i think they get to late from

just seven dust to i think this is obviously in part of the show and it's still better to be late as i'm not at all well i'd bet it's a bit late then never as as you know we see here in russia anyway we have to leave it here i really appreciate your being with us today and sharing your perspective thank you very much. i know you are beers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

for a single. training very young. eight months of intensive school. they're reps. and they save lives. u.s. veterans who come back from walk often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the circular defense office says we're got to act and destroy the governments and seven countries in five years americans pay for the walls with them

money on those without lives if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk some discomfort for uneasiness for. politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go to the press this is what the four three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in the house. last question. nato mogs seventy years but the alliance has birthday bash it was mauled by members feuding over russian weapons purchases and budget contributions. you an

expert says atrocities are on the rise in the west african country of laws with ethnic communities being massacred despite a french and u.s. troop presence. and the rights activists debate by slamming western women who wear the hijab when visiting iran for supporting a discriminatory all guests debating the issue. i think it's i think it's ridiculous i think asking women to comment when they come into a country do you dress this way.