and there are no of the ukrainians will have to choose between. which is a pretty remarkable choice in many ways what does it tell you about the aspirations of the people about the state of the ukrainian society that this election has been narrowed down to these two very very different characters i think actually is also of the first show you can you know decide to fight this kind of policies of the polish government because he came the second place in the very five behind us presidential. and as a positional can you there's a landscape who is going to come completely unknown in politics until recently so this is basically a major failure of polish uncle and success of a new candidate who is complete unknown in ukraine and politics now almost all western observers blame a comedian who shot to fame after playing a president in the popular t.v.

series almost everybody chide here for blurring the line between political reality and dramatic fiction if he really defers to do that isn't the ukrainian political reality almost always stranger than fiction i think i can. tell you my students and actually i consider it a session you can in the politics of this in the watch in the hollywood movies because in contrast to hollywood movies you do not know what's going to happen that you have a major development you have a big just like my dog months ago that's a must but you know i also have a moment of calm idea like a comedian lead in elections and i think you have combination of both as well and you have the violence a lot of developments which would not be possible to have in hollywood movies and in contrast to hollywood movies it's also you do not have a happy ending then to be expected so this is why politics is so interesting. and

that's why they said this and i tell my students a fascinating about this is a very fascinating subject i think to some extent it also shows how in very they the political norms are in ukraine because the character is the landscape played is not superman he's just a normal decent guy which is taken as fiction whereas candidates who promise to increase passions three fold or two and the war tomorrow are considered as real and truthful isn't that strange i think they're like basically. like like actually just basically promote infection and the same was promoted by not only by selenski but also by a push on. many are as a presidential candidates because of their support to a large extent is doing. on television which is that they kind of finicky that them promoted by pollution channels who. are owned by oil and gas and so is the only

kind it's very difficult to advance to the top up places in politics bizarre with such support and the result access to television so this is one of the reasons why you have the most of such a political force in the demagogues and the lens is just the latest there are those of such success of politician who have basically his appeal based almost entirely on the television and he is fictional the president. or you can solution i heard many western observers say that selenski popularity is just another example of the anti establishment trend that we are seeing in many countries around the world but even really our people found out with establishment politics or with politics full stop when i think of. those key is example of a populist politician similar to. this the comedian in the party joins the government in italy this insists this is. zelinsky

is also costs himself as the basement politician as a new politician who with a challenge all day live and in his. television has come in the television that he is he actually. cast himself as a basically kind of. a teacher who became president basically was able to unite you can overcome and this is the form you've got a few politicians from a different sections and also here there's also famous assuming that he basically has to execute the parliament basically and he's on the hands. of the members of his on the council this is a message basically try people to kind of step isman the feelings of you can petitions and a populist image of himself now there is there's also speculations now where there is a lansky should accept. a challenge and debate him publicly and when i think about

it what comes to mind is the famous cannady nixon debate which had pretty much the same dynamic an older more experienced more anxious insider versus a younger a friendlier and more inexperienced outsider. if you left him partially indeed debate one another it is at all clear who is going to emerge as the winner of this t.v. battle i think this is a problem of it because here i am his election campaign almost entirely on the image a fictional image of himself as a president who came on television shows and in his comedy shows which asked that on stage basically and so he basically the text which was prepared and. and you're not shiela debates. against bush ok here they are likely to lose or make a major kind of a mistake. the impact is

a parity and this is to pasture they didn't extend the debates so i think for this it isn't zelinsky did not good for two presidential debates in the first stone and he basically also the same for the second town because he is not a very. common for confident in his ability to challenge against. in the television debates of his out actually preparation and bizarre. kind of ability to good thorough the message and the script that the message is this is one of the problems for the future. professor mentioned before is keyes lack of political experience is that really sad share a competitive advantage in the ukrainian context i mean experience he is rivals have lots of it but isn't that also a major turn off for the voters i think this is his because because in the third. presidential candidates like polish i'm going to call the landscape is

a new politician his new personality in the u.k. you know politics and a lot of you can you know. this isn't is exists in politicians like bush encore who was in politics since one thousand nine hundred something which some call who was also in politics and. they hope to have a new kind of new policies new challenge new politics new leaders a few k. and i think this is helpful for him this is a moment that he is actually his i think the biggest without any of the negative connotations which i associated with his existence put this and in particular push i'm going to michelle and he also knows how to work the camera how to work the people how to be a likable don't you think that he's a profession that he's current profession to reach many bill as that is the disadvantage to him can actually prove very helpful in not only earning the recognition of the voters but also keeping it yes i think this is also helpful because his book right is best to significant extent on his image as

a politician less president of ukraine who who he plays on the television the show the popular provincial on the one who's in the u.k. and pollution in china also and by all you've got. and. he was able basically should present himself in such a fictional image in the very positive light and the one thousand politicians in newquay the negative light using this foam out of television but i think this might be also a problem for him because he did look to actually. campaign you know elections before elections he actually was using well you skipped that appearances by the advance so he still did not know how he would basically act and what he going to do in the kind of a deal things of like a press conference or do you negotiate and you never answer which would require him to decipher the spot and the trooper pay the help of illusion channels and he actually gave one television through before actually elections and this interview

was delayed by six seconds on his television channel so this is kind of i think the indication of a major problem that he has now i see him that this is not just his problem but in general a problem for ukrainian politicians because ukraine has as you mentioned before a pretty in of innovators pretty rambunctious politics but. when it comes to governance it's rather a little. uninspiring why do you think it's so difficult to translate this electoral vibrancy into real and good governance i think is because you know politics is basically a competition between the different model guy groups and say. if i thought power because public gives them. basically immunity from prosecution and also able i believe it. can throw all the government agencies basically should do

business and should become a dish and the only you politicians are all you got like bush of course or they are they presented us or for you guys like selenski and. and i think this is a major issue for you can so and so governance a lot of political promises doing made you know action campaigns actually never implemented and this happened this push on to himself and this might happen this is the lens yes well so you can but this might be actually a disappointment disappoint them if as let's give what many should become president the few. now compared to the russians ukrainians have a fairly short political fuse i mean both unocal president you should before him were sort of kicked out of office for five years after people voted for them whoever secures the april twenty first vote how long do you think he will have until the people will get impatient i think this is will be very soon as this

happens you should go soon after the other she will usually this also happen this bush uncle quite soon after he was elected in the first in just thousand and fourteen after my down. government after the madame led government obviously and you can so this was kind of typical phenomenon for you you know politicians and one of the issues is actually what kind of. media controls they're going to have because collusion place very important though and if. if i was alaska it would be able to utilize such television and he might be able to postpone this kind of they in there you know that about this is usually the this his policy is if he would be elected by as opposed to if you look at and this is not the second even so he needs to the poland and with the have a like the two with elections in them if they would not be a council on this up with professor at kitchen else do we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just

a few moments stay tuned. young elephants have come to us after. myspace leave brutal budging incidents because sadly the baby elephants often do see their mother as being killed but also be caught up unfortunate. i do believe the elephant smile i see it's a nice little months. they should express untamed says. you know world of big part of the new lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to

dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. welcome back to worlds apart with him i've been pitching all skip right little scientist at the university of out of a professor kitchen all ski many observers including your solve. noted the geographic distribution of the votes traditionally or historically in ukraine the

west is far more active in voting but i think this time around it's pretty even the with the east how do you interpret that. i think this is a very important issue as i was crucial issues for your politics and i actually thought by this edition dr this will hasten and publish books and many other costs and papers on this topic of his own political divisions in the u.k. and the last round of elections in ukraine shows again the basic and the usual divisions you support for different politicians but also significant change in the . of what the participation in different lesions so let's measure the climate less than you think compatriots than you can compare to previous elections and i since this can be out there but the show is a fact that a lot of ukrainians for less than a part of u.k. move to as a contest in particular poland and the czech republic because of i mean he says because of lack of jobs and a lack of employment of like a few in the after after this. the new government came to power so this is

like explanation that this happened in terms of what their participation in the last elections in the first i want there was a kind of collections when we look at the electoral map and which province is preferred which candidate what struck me was that ukraine no longer looks like a split country a country split between east and west sure there were two provinces that. voted for pressure to vote two provinces in these that voted for boycott but by and large that map was colored by green by one color is that. perhaps a herald of things to come or is it just graphic illusion because from that map and the i think you posted to you on the your twitter account ukraine really looks like a united country. yes i think it looks more united compared to what was the case

in the world presidential elections and all the parliamentary elections since ninety and ninety one which i study it is my in my books and made as a publications in the papers but i still think this is major issue in terms of additional dimensions and you can because if you look into what you throw up. of what it was the last elections it's impossible to see that the western u.k. could do this specifically until i just don't believe you know what that much more for position call and the mushroom cloud compared to use them if you can sounds a part of u.k. vision of what that part of you can be sure there. must be a flaw. zelinsky and in the boss there was a victory for a boycott who was. different policies from bush uncle in terms of his election platform so this is actually a major issue and. actually you can there's also the why that because the boss said by just going from the boss which is the focus you see that form you can the help

of national media intervention. did not actually participate in elections and same applies to kamya and i was a major production agent which was the next bash since since then my down even so this is a very posh legion which was when you first in love actually since nine hundred ninety one but it did not participate in this round of elections now i think it's also very clear from the polls that the voters in the west and the east of the country have sound we're different priorities people in the west so who are far more insulated from the conflict and don't boss tend to be more hawkish while the people in the east are far more in favor of negotiating the. war do you expect any change in the dynamics of that conflict the conflict in dun boss after the elections. this possibility and i think this is if the landscape with become president if you can think of a big if because of the possibilities of his actions can be counsel for the south

that but if he would be a letter this president of ukraine which is very likely based on public opinion polls this with a. strong possibility of some changes that is some changes in the terms of the conflict in the inbox but i do not expect as this issue would be a result of the conflict would be a result the cost more money who is going to be in government to feel good and they are not going to make any major. of concessions. this. make an edge with basically take away some of the feel if you can all that the boss and the same applies to amy aside do they expect that even as a lens. his election which might lead to changes in the u.k. do politics and policy too as the bus will be able to there's all of this conflict but i think the big issue is participation of the united states because you know i think they still has basically from the influence on you can do in politics and

still would have to be a major factor in this is when they can you can petition simply do the lansky if you would become president if you can now he's already paintings lenski as essentially a crime and stooge which i think is the biggest fool or in the context of the ukrainian politics do you think it's believable enough to turn off voters i think this is where you come to a productive person on such basic information and just propaganda their minds me a lot of studying the. claims that i did by the who was opposed to a study and policy was a father an agent and so on the biz basically the policies of the soviet union were the same applies to cane and this did not work in terms of was alinsky. doing the election campaign for the first all and he was able to be pushed out of

a significantly and push uncle did the same visit all of his opponents. and the national call came also a question a push on courses so this message does not there's a mate to music i know about this because to significant extent it became discredit that because of its case and you mentioned that it became discredited though that the majority of the ukrainian voters and i want to remind our viewers that just if you. years ago could barely string a sentence together in ukraine but i think now he clearly bangs on ukrainian after the nationalism as the central pillar of his campaign why do you think he's relying on need to such an extent because it's clearly hurting ukraine's ties not only with its neighbor to the east but also bit its neighbors to the west the poles for example you know i think here he wanted basically to win the elections as a second though and by appealing to his base of the most nationalistic but if you

can society and this was successful to some extent because he was a humanist actually a church in the second town by basic and there i can you can by. this help of such extreme policies. and the election. issues like language in the boss a conflict with russia and also issue of illusion but he did not actually get a lot of support outside. so here actually he lost even though they know that in the west and you can actually this is my native vision and you know many of our citizens if you can the. kind of which i'm not bashing the asians but actually orthodox the orthodox christian nations and the u.k. don't speak english so his message basically was not that way successful for the second out of elections and this is actually a very consistent visit my site is that the public opinion polls in the u.k. shows that you can do more there's not support in such extreme. policies

nationalists policies even so this place is where promoted by push by the media in you can after my down do you think you will have to change he's trying to jump speaking i'm talking about pressure and could he think he will have to change his strategy in order to perhaps increase the level of support on the eve of the runoff here and you said he of a he would. basically i think support us off as alinsky but there's the same time and he'll also. the basic is that as alinsky is a national agent and the puppet of a column i ski so his to look like it's a poem of this divisive issues but that i think he is evil not the give him a major boost before a second talent so in my opinion. his are just some extreme measures maybe if we do violence or use ations in what they're chewing this up elections such a council actions this based on the possibility of such evidence if he would lose elections because as always he is. again you might be worth

a thought but you could get four or corruption far as a kind of offenses that would be a bailout he found after he would lose power so i think it has a lot of incentives much lower victory for selenski in the. contest so this is why it is still is this is this is a big issue and we can see if this happened a month. before the second allowance or do the second thousand for elections you mentioned that the west and the united states in particular still play a significant role in the ukrainian politics do you think it's in the interest of the western stakeholders to allow poroshenko any sort of. provocation to boost his electoral chances because from what i can read it looks like western partners of ukraine are also interested in seeing these both of these elections to proceed in the most transparent and fair fashion am i wrong on that. and i think

that again is our big questions about the western policy issue as to as you can because the best i'm going was the fact the support of the violent of us law of our of the u.k. and government the government of the other college which was a partial government but also. kind of a also less to say there is only got us and this was supported by opinion by the united states the fact that. there is this almost always the help of a. i don't protest police by elements of my down position fight against asians so the question is what would be policy always the worst if a person called the teacher that is a jew annoyance or you can select and so on even so the thought because the western governments is that they support democracy and fear. but first the elections and you can show that this was not the case because of evidence of thought or. kind of all such council actions it is

a state accident this incident. came in a bitch so this was i think because she was the best employees who would be if the if there was still support here actions you can because of less than i was did not have to do not support actually democratic developments after my dad. oversaw government well on the eve of these elections the g seven ambassadors in key of road then unprecedented letter i think to the ukrainian authorities expressing their concern about the role of far right extremists in the ukrainian politics and i know that you've been concerned about this issue for many years you've investigated the. massacre of two thousand and fourteen but up until recently there was very very little recognition of the of the role that the extremists play in the politics of ukraine don't you think that this belated recognition that it is truly

belated but don't you think that it's still points to the fact that perhaps politicians in the west that waking up to what kind of forces they brought to power in the ukraine i think this is again a very big issue and there was a letter from just seven of those basic officials that they recognize this publicly because the difference is such a such a slogan to oneself i was the night in u.k. and specifically also by a western. the governments and by western media and now i think it might be or they did chill late because feith editions become be a powerful in ukraine politics they become integrated into government of ukraine they become integrated in the military in the national guard in the police and security service and this is part of the should now as a help our basic get you over so you can government this help of his alliance of all you've got people that this means so this will be again the still of. issue before and after the second round of elections because of how they can still.

hurt you but i won't. say they got as passionate politician and this may be a again the you can still see if. they are say in the u.k. your politics but i think even the if. you would manage to win elections seal a fight with what they basically have imo and the he would need to basic i just because a few films of such five i think musicians so this is i think. from just seven dust to i think this is obviously in part of the show and it's still better to be late as i'm not at all well i'd bet it's a bit late then never as as you know we see here in russia anyway we have to leave it here i really appreciate your being with us today and sharing your perspective thank you very much. i'm curious our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds

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having blown out seventieth birthday candles nato calls on russia to withdraw its military advisors from venezuela but at the same time pledged to expand the alliances presence in regions on russia's doorstep. social media giant twitter lifts its ban on a french government advertising campaign after it had blocked it as part of its fight against fake news. and an iranian rights activist slams western visitors to the country who don't hate job saying they undermine efforts to abolish the law requiring women to wear the head covering the issue. i think it's i think it's ridiculous i think asking women in.