politicise clinging to power for another five years is that likely to hold when the ukrainians go to the polls again on april twenty first to choose between the incumbent and the inquiry they will discuss that i'm now joined by ivan kitchen off key political scientist at the university of ottawa professor could you not give good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you now i think it's now clear that in the run of the ukrainians will have to choose between. which is a pretty remarkable choice in many ways what does it tell you about the aspirations of the people about the state of the ukrainian society that this election has been narrowed down to these two very very different characters i think actually is also of the first. to discover this. because he came to second place in the very five behind us presidential. and as

a professional can. become completely unknown in politics until this is basically. a. new candidate who has complete politics now almost all western observers blamed a comedian who shot to fame after playing a president in the popular t.v. series almost everybody chide him for blurring the line between political reality and dramatic fiction is he really the first to do that isn't the ukrainian political reality almost always stranger than fiction. in the politics. of watching the hollywood movie because in contrast to hollywood movies you do not know what's going to happen that you have a major development you have a big like. that. but you know i also have

a element of calm idea like a comedian lead in elections and i think you have combination of both as well and you have the violence a lot of developments which would not be possible to have in hollywood movies and in contrast to where you with movies it's also you do not have a happy ending then to be expected so this is why i politics is so interesting and that's why i said this and i tell my students a fascinating about this is a very fascinating subject i think some extent it also shows how in very deep political norms are in ukraine because the character is the landscape played is not superman he's just a normal decent guy which is taken as fiction whereas candidates who promise to increase passions threefold or to do war tomorrow are considered as real and truthful isn't that strange i think they're like basically. that like like actually just basically

a white infection and the same was promoted by not only by selenski but also by a person. many are as a presidential candidates because of their support to a large extent. on television which is that they. had them promoted by delusion channels who. are owned by oil and gas and so is the only kind it's very difficult to advance to the thought places in politics bizarre that supported the bizarre access to television so this is one of the reasons why you have the most of such a political act that's in the demagogues and the landscape is just the latest there are those of such success of politician who have basically his i feel based almost entirely on the television and he is fictional the president. or you can solution i heard many western observers say that selenski popularity is just another example of the. and he stablish meant trend that we're seeing in many countries around the

world but he's it really are people fat out with establishment politics or with politics full stop and i think. those key is a sample of our populace politicians and much of the world this comedian in the party joins a government in italy this insists this is. the lansky is also costs himself as a. politician as a new political who with a challenge all day live and in his. living room he's come in the pollution of the city as he actually. cast himself as a basic kind of. teacher who became president basically was able to unite you can overcome and this is those form you've got a few politicians from a different sections and also here there's also famous assuming that he basically.

execute the parliament basically in his own hands. when the members of his on the council this is a message basically try peel to kind of anti establishment the feelings of you can petitions and a populist image of himself now there is there's also speculations now where there is the lansky should accept. challenge and debate he publicly and when i think about it what comes to mind is the famous cannady nixon debate which had pretty much the same dynamic an older more experienced more anxious insider versus a younger a friendlier and more inexperienced outsider. if. indeed debate one another it is at all clear who is going to emerge as the winner of this t.v. battle i think this is the main problem of it because here on his election come.

almost entirely on the image a fictional image of himself as a president who came on television shows and then his comedy shows which asked that onstage basically and so he basically the text which was prepared and. and you not shala debates in the against bush ok here could be a likely lose or make a major kind of a mistakes made significant impact his approach this is to pasture they didn't excel in the debates so i think for this it isn't zelinsky did not appear for. presidential debates in the first stone and he basically also the same for the second town because he is not a very. common for confident in his ability to challenge against bush uncle in the television debates result actually population and bizarre. kind of ability to control the message and the script that message is this is one of the problems for the future. professor mentioned before is keyes lack of political experience is

that really sad share competitive advantage in the ukrainian context i mean experience he is rivals have lots of it but isn't that also a major turn off for the voters i think this is his big advantage because in the third. presidential candidates like bush i'm going to mushroom call zelinsky is a new politician he is a new personality in the u.k. you know politics and a lot of you can you know. this isn't biz exists in politicians like bush on core who is in politics since one thousand nine hundred ninety one sham corps who was also in politics is made tonight as they hope to have a new kind of new policies new change new politics new leaders a few k. and i think this is helpful for him this is a moment that he is actually was i think the baggage without any of the negative connotations which are situated in his existing. in particular push i'm going to

motion and he also knows how to work the camera how to work the people how to be a likable don't you think that he's a profession that he's current profession to reach many bill as that is a disadvantage to him can actually prove very helpful in not only earning the recognition of the voters but also keeping it yes i think this is also helpful because his propriety is based just significant extent on his image as a politician as president of ukraine who who he plays on the television the show they put on television show on the. lead in the u.k. and pollution in china also and by well you got it and. was able basically should present himself in such a fictional image in the very positive light and the one thousand politicians in newquay the negative light using this foam out of pollution but i think this might be also a problem for him because he did look to actually complain you know elections

before elections he actually was using the idea script with appearances. by the monks so they still did not know how he would basically act and what he going to do in the kind of a deal things of like a press conference or did they go and do you never answer which would require him to decipher the spot and not true pay the help of illusion channels and he actually gave one television through before actually elections and this was delayed by six seconds on his television channel so this is kind of i think the indication of the major problems that he has now i see him that this is not just his problem but in general a problem for ukrainian politicians because ukraine has as you mentioned before a pretty in of innovators pretty rambunctious politics but. when it comes to governance it's rather a little. uninspiring why do you think it's so difficult to translate this l.

natural vibrancy into real and good governance i think is because politics is basically a competition between the different you've got groups and they. fight for power because public gives them. basically immunity from prosecution and also able. to control all the government agencies basically should do business and should become what it is and the only do politicians. like bush of course or they are they preserve the jobs or for you guys like selenski and i think this is a major issue for you can see in terms of governance a lot of political promises doing made you know action campaigns actually never implemented and this happened this push on to himself and this might happen this is the lens yes well so you can but this might be actually a disappointment disappoint them if it's let's get with men they should become president the few now compared to the russians ukrainians have

a fairly short political fuse i mean both say you know call the president you should go before him were sort of kicked out of office for five years after people voted for them whoever secures the april twenty first vote how long do you think he will have until the people will get impatient i think this is will be very soon as this happens you should go soon after the other civilizations this also happened this bush uncle quite soon after he was elected is the first i want in just thousand and fourteen after my down. government after my down led government obviously and you can so this was kind of typical phenomenon for u.k. you know politicians and one of the issues is actually what kind of. media control they going to have because the losing base very important though and if. as alaska would be able to utilize such television and he might be able to postpone this kind

of they in there you know that about this is usually the solution and this his policy is if he would be elected by a president as a present of u.k. and this is not the second even so he leads in the poland and with the have a like the two with elections you know if they would not be a council on this up with all that professor at kitchen else do we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us on the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

u.s. veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. we're going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the circular defenses officer says we're going to attack and destroy the government and seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with them money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed for a war and surely we can risk some discomfort or uneasy ness for us. welcome back to worlds apart with them i've been pitching all skip but little

scientist at the university of out of a professor kitchen all ski many observers including yourself. no did the geographic distribution of the votes traditionally or historically in ukraine the west is far more active in voting but i think this time around it's pretty even the with the east how do you interpret that. i think this is a very important issue as i must push for kenya politics and i actually thought by this edition dr this will haitian and publish books and many articles and papers on this topic of his own political divisions in the u.k. and the last round of elections in ukraine shows again the basic divisions in support for different politicians but also significant change in the. of what their participation in different lesions so let's measure the climate less than you think compatriots than you can compare to previous elections and i since this can be out there but they show the fact that a lot of ukrainians from western part of u.k.

moved to as a count this in particular poland and the czech republic because of that mickey says because of lack of jobs and a lack of employment like a few come in the after after this. the new government came to power so this is like explanation that this happened in terms of what their participation in the last elections in the first i want there was a kind of collections when we look at the electoral map and which province is preferred which candidate what struck me was that ukraine no longer looks like a split country a country split between east and west sure there were two provinces that. voted for pressure to vote two provinces in these that voted for boycott but by and large that map was colored by green by one color is that. perhaps a herald of things to come or is it just graphic illusion because from that map and

the i think you posted to you on the your twitter account ukraine really looks like a united country. yes i think it looks more united compared to what was the case in the old presidential elections and all the parliament elections since ninety and ninety one the test i get is my in my books and my as a publications in the papers but i still think this is major issue in terms of additional dimensions and you can because if you look into what do you throw up. what it was the last elections the soup was about to see that the best thing you can do this specific until i just i believe you know what that much more for possession call and the mushroom cloud compared to use them if you can and sounds a part of u.k. vision of what that part of you can be sure there must be a flaw. zelinsky and in the boss there was a victory for a boycott who was. different policies from bush uncle in terms of his election

platform so this is actually a major issue and. actually you can there's also the why that because the boss said by just going from the boss which is the focus you see the form you can of national media intervention. did not actually participate in elections and same applies to kamya and i was a major production agent which was the next bash since since then my down even so this is a very posh legion which was when you first in all other actions since nine hundred ninety one but it did not participate in this round of elections now i think it's also very clear from the polls that the voters in the west and the east of the country have some would different priorities people in the west though who are far more insulated from the conflict and don't boss tend to be more hawkish while the people in the east are far more in favor of negotiating the. war do you expect any change in the dynamics of that conflict the conflict in dun boss after the

elections. this possibility and i think this is if the landscape will become president if you can think of a big if because of the possibilities of his actions can be counsel for the south that but if he would be a lie for this president of ukraine which is very likely based on public opinion polls this was a. strong possibility of some changes that is some changes in the terms of the conflict in the inbox but i do not expect as this issue would be a result of the conflict would be a result the cost martha who is going to be in government to feel good and they are not going to make any major. of concessions so fake amazing this. or make an edge with basically take away some of the feel if you can all that the boss and the same applies to a me aside that expect that even as a lens. his election which might lead to changes in the u.k.

new politics and policy too as the bus will be able to resolve this conflict but i think the big issue is participation of the united states because you know i think they still has basically from the influence on you can in politics and still would have would be a major factor in this is when they can if you can petition simply do the lansky if you would become president if you can now he's already paintings lenski as essentially a crime and stooge which i think is the biggest floor in the context of the ukrainian politics do you think it's believable enough to turn off voters saying this is the. time to productive. such basic information and just propaganda which reminds me a lot of studying the. claims that your buddy who was opposed to a study and policy was a father an agent and so on the biz basically the policies of the soviet union were

the same applies to ukraine and this did not welcome in terms of fuzz alinsky. lansky doing the election campaign for the first hour and he was able to be pushed out of a significantly and push on could be the same business all of his opponents including the call and the national claim also a question push on courses so this message does not there's a make the music a know what is because significant extent it became discouraged at that because of its case and you mentioned that it became discredited though that the majority of the ukrainian voters and i want to remind our viewers that just if you. years ago could barely string a sentence together in ukraine but i think now he clearly bangs on ukrainian after the nationalism as the central pillar of his campaign why do you think he's relying on it just such an extent because it's clearly hurting ukraine's ties not only with its neighbors to the east but also bill its neighbors to the west the poles for

example you know i think here he wanted basically to win the elections as a second now and by appealing to his base of the most nationalistic but if you can in society and this was successful to some extent because he was a humanist actually a church in the second town by basic and there i didn't you came by. this help of such extreme policies. and the election. issues like language in the boss of conflict with russia and also issue of illusion but he did not actually get a lot of support outside. so here actually he lost even though they know that in the west and you can actually this is my native vision and you know many of our citizens if you can the. kind of which i'm not but actually just bought or actually orthodox the orthodox christian nations and the u.k. don't speak english so his message basically was not that way successful for the

second out of elections and this is actually a very consistent visit my site is that you could be in polls. shows that you can do more there's not supporting such extreme. policies nationalists policies even so this place is where promoted by push by the media in you can after my down do you think you will have to change he's trying to jump speaking i'm talking about pressure and could he think he will have to change his strategy in order to perhaps increase his level of support on the eve of the runoff here as you said here though he would. basically i think support us off as alinsky but there's the same time and he also. the basic is that as alinsky is a national legend and the puppet of oklahoma ski so his like each of them of this divisive issue is about that but i think he is if not the give him a major boost before a second talent so in my opinion. his are just some extreme measures

maybe if we do violence or use ations in what they're chewing this up elections such a consolations this based on the possibility of such evidence if he would lose elections because as always he is. again you might be worth a thought but you could get four or corruption far as a kind of offenses that would be a bailout he found after he would lose policy i think it has a lot of incentives much lower victory for selenski in the. contest so this is why it is still is this is a big issue and we can see if this happened a month. before the second allowance or do the second thousand flexions you mentioned that the west and the united states in particular still play a significant role in the ukrainian politics do you think it's in the interest of the western stakeholders to allow poroshenko any sort of. provocation to boost his electoral chances because from what i can read it looks like western

partners of ukraine are also interested in seeing these both of these elections to proceed in the most transparent and fair fashion am i wrong on that. and i think that again is our big questions about western policy which was to as you can because the best i'm going was the fact the support of the violent oversaw of all of the u.k. and government the government of the un the college which was a partial government but also. kind of a also left to say this is all you guys and this was supported by you know by the united states the fact that. there's this almost always the help of a. i don't protest police by elements of my down position i think in stations so the question is what would be policy over the worst if a push uncle but i sure there's a lot to annoyance or you can select and so on even so the thought because the western governments is that they support democracy and the fear. but first the

elections and you can show that this was not the case because of evidence of thought or. true of all such council actions it is a state accident this incident. came in a bitch so this was i think because she was the best employees who would be if the if there was still support here actions you can because of less than i was did not have to do not support actually democratic developments after my dad. oversaw government well on the eve of these elections the g seven ambassadors in key of road then unprecedented letter i think to the ukrainian authorities expressing their concern about the role of far right extremists in the ukrainian politics and i know that you've been concerned about this issue for many years you've investigated the. massacre of two thousand and fourteen but up until recently there

was very very little recognition of the of the role that the extremists play in the politics of ukraine don't you think that this belated recognition that it is truly belated but don't you think that it's still points to the fact that perhaps politicians in the west that waking up to what kind of forces they brought to power in the ukraine i think this is again a very big issue a letter from just seven of those basic officials that they recognize this publicly because the defense is such a such a slogan films of i was the night in u.k. and specifically also by a western. the governments and by western media and now i think it might be or they did chill late because feith editions become be a powerful in you can you politics they become integrated into government of ukraine they become integrated in the military in the national guard in the police and security service and this is part of the should now as a help our basic get over so you can government this help of his alliance of all

you've got people that this means so this will be again the still of. sure before and after the second elections because i can still. hurt you but i won't. say they got as passionate politician and this may be again the beacon still see if. they are say in the u.k. your politics but i think even the. last few would manage to win the elections. with what they basically have imo and he would need a basic i just because a few films of such fine i think musicians so this is i think. from just seven dust to i think this is obviously. still better to be late as i'm not at all well i'd bet it's a bit late then never as as you know we see here in russia anyway we have to leave

it here i really appreciate your being with us today and sharing your perspective thank you very much. i'm courage of yours to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and here again same place same time here on worlds apart. join me every thursday on the alex salmond shill and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

come to. especially brutal lodging incidents because sadly the baby elephants often do see their mothers be killed but also because. i do believe the elephant smile i see it's a new social once they are all facial expression changes. the.

nato accuses russia of imperialism and throwing its weight around the world of the same time and then saying the alliance is military expansion in the black sea. wiki leaks claims its founder julian assange will be expelled from the aqua dorian embassy within hours today citing his high level government source. french government pulls all of its own and fake news will rise to it to temporarily one of its islands with social media platforms apparently left confused as to what content and the targets.