china has arrived in europe in a very big way and not everyone in the west welcomes this italy's support of china's belgian road initiative is a game changer the washington consensus that has dominated the world for the past seven decades is being challenged to turn to the east continues. to bernie made up her army and said if you don't buy into my ponzi scheme on going to shoot my god if you even though the body scan was well known to be a ponzi schemer yes you see it investigated bernie madoff at least twice before they found the boss of them and they it was a well known ponzi scheme invested by well known people imagine bernie had an army now apply that to the u.s. dollar the u.s. dollar is a ponzi scheme why do people want the u.s. dollar because if they don't the u.s.

military says and they're obliterated whether it's iraq or libya or some other place like this around and so that's what's going to set a new york times rightly so the u.s. dollar is worthless it's backed by law. welcome to sophia go home sophie shevardnadze and when i says affiliate to sam made upon the worst scenarios played a major role in pushing the terrorist spec is outsourcing the name of the game when it comes to modern conflicts will ask was classrooms to mention director at programs africa and veteran soldier for hire. mercenaries who have been the

mainstay of african wools for decades have a good decisive impact in sierra leone and go look. at. this is a conflict and while the media portrays them as dangerous cash hungry brutes local government still has soldiers of fortune to get them out of tight spots small bursaries companies more efficient than regular national news on this continent private military contract is a viable solution to endless regional conflicts and could their actions help to bring peace to water on hotspots. call this class and managing director at programs africa and executive outcomes veteran welcome to the show it's great to have you with us because you run your own security company now after having spent years in the special forces and then reached fame as a member of mercenary unit executive outcomes there have been t.v.

programs about you a character based on you it was played by leonardo di caprio and blood diamond are you using all his fame and attention to bring more clients to promote the business is a good thing right so we all get all the row because the end we followed the full career let me just rectify something from the start not so much special forces units as for units close but not the same that's where i spend my military career and yes after that i joined executive outcomes and i had a couple of years with them and after that are for my own company and then carried on from there and now for the last eleven twelve years it's been pogroms africa shoulder i'm a director quite happy to do normal commercial. the rest of proper security work. all right but what about the media question do you like the media attention that help you get climate clients is a good for is a good thing for business. no i don't like i'm media shy and so many people in my

in my business and i have on one of the older guys around and i feel that we should have a voice and if it's a sensible said the questions we should answer them and we should speak out for our industry and also for that of the private military business because we feel that has the right to exist as a place of modern business and politics and somebody should answer those questions and be on the media so here i am reluctant to leave but quite willingly yes so why is it though because other mercenaries from your generation that i talked to and i've spoken to quite a few they said that the media always portrayed them in a negative light do you feel that things as well do you feel that the public opinion is against you because you're considered a mercenary well well well thought out well balanced media will follow the story regardless unfortunately in the early days of executive outcomes. there

was a a more sinister or a more politically driven agenda death planted stories this is well documented given ballers of the search and the subsequent book from there. so to a degree executive outcomes was the victim of a smear campaign which is different from good reporting on the other side of the coin that we have enjoyed fair and honest reporting for example the b.b.c. reported on their presence in sierra leone that can ninety five ninety six ninety seven ready favorable and correct manner because at the end of that conflict all parties that was in the conflict was tried or was investigated by the special court . executive elton's was given a clean bill of health and this was well reported by the b.b.c. and was picked up on the news media so yes there's good and bad we have to live with it that's that's what of the world that we live in so the private military

companies on the continent like pilgrim's africa that you're running because they're all based on people like you south african or are the original army veterans is there a new generation coming to replace you guys are there are young people interested in this kind of work. i maybe just make another distinction quickly programs africa as part of the british programs group we have commercial security for well over a dish that we pay our taxes and we do nothing that can be considered to be built at the type of work. but yes to answer the second part of your question in private military companies they certainly ease a new generation back in the day it was an exclusive small group most commonly known as the so everybody knew each other and to a degree people understood that if a station of people and because they're small at the action in iraq and afghanistan

that led to a whole generation of new young short soldiers that left the services and went into the private security work and many of them found their way into private military companies the market was flooded not necessarily with quality people many of the guys were good but many of the guys were not so good and some of them were got kicked out of the military and also migrated towards a career in the private security industry so to be honest modern security persons have to catch up with that in the world and properly bait. candidates and employees and go through the same procedures any corporate entity would be studies to determine if the candidate sitting in front of them for the job interview is in fact qualified is in fact experienced and he's infected i'd go for the job. so. i can see that you know. you're starting spearing in the military world and in private military what how do you recruit people do you look for physical attributes

first and foremost or mental strength or more reliable hireable. well this again two sides to this this answer the first is a commercial security business that is of international scale and it s. clients that a list of companies all over the world. united nations that have been in this client facing it is all about compliance and so on of that process we have to be compliant with the way we recruit their office and know whether we recruit the security guard or whether we recruit the director so we go through the same recruitment process as any corporate entity would go through when it comes to p.m.c. or other let me let me delve down a little bit into the sort of slightly murkier world but at the contracts that was handed down by dodgy governments or by dodgy entities and it's word of mouth normally they would approach somebody that they trust or they would be they would be i have a solution it's to them by

a entity that is that is that offshore and it consists of former military personnel and those guys with the word of mouth they would use social media or phone calls emails and they would gather the guards pretty quickly. in general they were they could people they know but if it's a large contract there's a lot of guys needed and obviously sometimes the quality slips a little bit. so you mentioned that your company mostly does defense aware and he said that you make a distinction between companies that only do protection jobs and those that also go on this sensitive jing in this working on a company that can mount offensive operations and more fun to me chopper hopping after i don't know boko haram going to bush than escorting an oil executive from the airport to their rake and back. there's all sorts of differences between a commercial security company and a p.m.c. . a commercial security company delivers a wide range of services that borders on the just eco services outsourcing services

technical services for example the installation of security measures around a office of c.c.t.v. cameras fencing lights it provides man guarding this is a god the front of office guy that sits at a security post or somebody that patrols a large yard with a sense now on the other hand the p.m.c. will often engage in combat and that for me is that the pm sees don't necessarily engage in combat p.m.c. use private military companies can get involved in the back end. but at the. proper but at least proper armies across the world in a support role but pm sees are sometimes also involved in combat training and then in some cases they get involved in combat and that for me is the main distinction if you ask me whether i missed the days that i left the army and i'm in part of a private company i think i can combat yes it's a brotherhood and you do miss. and it is special and the bonds that you form back

then stays with you for ever but as you can see i'm getting older and greyer now so that is not my number one priority in life anymore every encounter customers that try to misrepresent your mission in any way you're into doing sound right there to work. oh no. it's the story it's the stuff that stories of fiction are made of to be honest when a p.m.c. engages with the customer. the contractual requirements and normally laid bare long before any work is done before any money changes hands during a mission or during a deployment or during the duration of a contract yes that acquirements might change but being tricked into a change it's never have after that in any operation or any kind of conflict i was involved in. normally they would be a bit of give and take normally they would be add on expectations from the customer sometimes objectives are met by the p.m.c.

not necessarily a visible clear or the specific objectives that the client wanted so that would be a process of negotiation it is a business off the dole. time something when p.m.c. is have to defeat an enemy on the ground they act like classic army stay start with an air onslaught then finish them on the ground one of the techniques pam says boy it's only in collateral yes when a p.m.c. in gauges of combat it's there's no difference between that and any other armed force engaging in combat the fact that they for some reason work for a civilian company a private company does what they are on a contract but it makes no difference once the bullets start flying the same tactics apply and. in each and every case that i have been involved in that i know of the mcs took extraordinary measures to avoid collateral damage specifically the targeting or even the accidental harm to civilians in most cases they were they

were greatly successful because they said that as an object of a a standing army. that attacks or bombs of target will consider collateral damage but in the political way it's not their prime concern whereas for the p.m.c. it is very much so often in the planning for most of your combat operations for a p.m.c. where i was involved. the effect and the impact on civilians was front and foremost in the planners minds and often times when there was a chance of civilians getting hurt the plan was not executed to modify in order to avoid that. like any private business in concert is those things that it's bad for business having civilians hurt or killed or having property damage that shouldn't be damage is definitely bad for business so therefore of p.m.c. sometimes considers things in a different way than a standing bill if you would. we'll take a short break right now we'll be back discussing outsourcing the war to a private companies with cobras claassen graeme's africa and veteran gun for hire

stay with us. there was a. chance to do crack when i was a little kid my dad he was like oh. so you know i got like what i needed when i was a baby but i had a bad childhood. there's always been single mothers and african-american community service and slavery. i think it's more of a teenagers having kids in you can expect

a fourteen or fifteen year old first voted out order for and there be a far there and he's a check out. we actually lost our place and. my car ended up breaking down and i was unable to get to work on time so they let me go in with my paycheck that i bring home i have barely enough to pay my car insurance. gas in my car. u.s. veterans who come back from war. same stories. were going out for the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers. they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo this . destroy the government. paid for the

wars with. others. if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed or. just come for. our back when classes had a program's africa security company and former member of executive outcomes talking about his life as a gun for hire on the role of private military companies in modern battlefield so

u.n. convention bans to use of mercenaries while civilian governments use it as a dirty word and yet we see that time and time again where serious come to their rescue i say. for instance against boko haram etc why are private military contractors more effective than un peacekeepers or national armies for that matter we're going to come to. a you know both of makes but it reached the refugee and that makes for business but so that's where the p.m.c. has an advantage over him. for example to a client of course in the quickest most efficient way possible political considerations not so much foremost in their plan to business principles are you getting paid by the hour. then you would make sure that you're as efficient as you can be in the hour so that's first and foremost where. the mcs can be more

efficient then but of things i have to qualify that is no p.m.c. on this planet that can fight the major war that's not the point and that's never a way of p.m.'s he's comes in at this point in time and into the foreseeable future of p.m.c. is provides a limit that he had spoken efficient solution as part of a larger than broader solution for example you mention backcourt on the other ninety eight and i happen to be a nigerian effort to understand what happened here the p.m.c. that came here was not contracted through when the war the p.m.c. that came here was contract that train a unit and to create that from scratch and then to go into combat and achieve limited objectives so as to show the nigerian but at the some initiative to get them on the front foot to get some momentum going and to achieve certain limited objectives i believe they were contracted initially only to come in and rescue the

chibok girls you remember the girls that were kidnapped from their school and that mission been changed eventually became slightly broader in scope but they were never the idea that they would stay here for years and fight the war it was meant to be fought by the national army they were for a specific mission and that's why some people make the mistake and report that wrongly nigerian soldiers a brave and physically capable of fighting quite willing to fight so that affected some of the best in the world i fought with them i can i can say that however their leadership has failed and possibly the ship has the chain the right that the logistical capability of the nigerian but at the end they training has been lacking has been lacking going so they had a p.m.c. can come in because the select very quickly at least all the training standards and doctrine at the same time help them with their logistical supply and procurement so that i things of all the things that will method and make a difference teach them how to use that help them to do. that and then step back and step out of this out of the picture so the pm sees a role is

a limit that will be at the very effective one. so nigeria continues its struggle with boko haram which is now seemingly split into two factions your former colleagues from meo have put the haraam on the wrong three years ago working for the nigerian government but saying that the group is still here where their efforts not out how would you assess first of all the full mario as you say psychedelic as this band of the lone prime ago the company that was contracted to come and help the nigerian government. was a different company some of the personnel the things were the same but believe me very few on the whole this was not the from company at the from a bunch of people and i know because i met some of them and i spoke to them and obviously we interact on social media via e-mail and so forth. that they do a good job they did a brilliant job they did it professionally well considering the constraints of time and money they were given just

a part of the budget that they were promised and they were given a very short period of time as a matter of fact that would be simba to mobilize and you know mobilization like that would be a logistical if and logistics means arms and ammunition nobody sells arms and ammunition over these private company everybody goes on holiday so they pulled it off and let it go myself and let it go because unfortunately due to financial constraints but given the opportunity to finish what they were contracted for i believe they would have saved hundreds of thousands of lines and i g.d.s. northeast would be in the politically far more stable condition than it is right now and like a lot of other militants in africa boko haram is operating in an area where it's is it to cross the border and flee into chalk nigeria cameron is facing too much pressure can nigeria even deal with it on its own. no i don't think so nigeria needs a concentrated effort. it has to be collaborative effort between each year come over and chat at least and not see any and all of these other countries needs help

. most of them but at the hawke back to conventional days there are all the best of the structures the way they teach these soldiers and train them is a calm in a conventional manner unfortunately they are facing a counterinsurgency or an insurgency in a me and they need to adopt a counterinsurgency strategy and tactics and equipment and formations they need help with that they need to be assistance in order to restructure the material the manpower on the ground fantastic brave stronger physically capable they nationalistic they are out of their countries they will find that they need to be helped how to fight and they need to be quick critics the untrained correcting. i read that back in sierra leone excited about comes so successful because it was able to get help from local militias who knew the areas and the people in the side against alcohol rom do you see much trust between the military operating in the country's north east and the locals. well that's an important decision for

governments that are faced with an enemy like all caught on has to make and that is whether through in this civilian help officially in some countries like sierra leone it was done successfully dillo call hunting societies was organized enough that i'm going to the group and a part of that was placed on the executive outcomes controlled and utilized video activity the same can happen here but first of all there's to be a political decision by the political leadership of the country are we going to arm civilians and put them in harm's way in order to supply and support the military if they do make that decision and however wide or limited that the solution may be in those people can be invaluable as a matter of fact right now the fight is kind of to boycott and it's offspring by local militias that are simply armed with shotguns and deal creational like a forty seven but these people are fighting to protect their lands these villages and the people so they are effective in what they are doing in a counterinsurgency you know i think the scope for that to be organized well

controlled well trained well mobilized and it will certainly add value. go around pledged allegiance to i says a long time ago but do you see an isis province or nigeria story this is a real possibility at this stage or is it now more like a jihadi pipe dream. look i'm sure there's a technical difference between isis but for all our swell all cried on this island whatnot. if you take a step back and you look at the problem it isn't a militant islamist problem they each have a unique character uniquely theirs and maybe slight differences in tactics and approach to the issue but it's a common enemy and it states has all the way across the region now and it should be seen as that so i have no idea where that isis with establish a cell here and called themselves that although they were right on the back of the already established islamist but at the movement's you or me there's an enemy and

is destabilizing the state killing a lot of innocent people need to be stopped welcome hieron reportedly uses child soldiers and so did the revolution a revolutionary united front group you say southwest and sierra leon did you ever happening aging in eight that includes children i mean how tough is it for a soldier to face them on a battlefield is they person and decide to check out first soldier second or vice versa look in africa young people as being combatants for ever in sierra leone we found that immediately. it's really hard for the soldier in a context of choice in a battle situation to distinguish the age of the opponent all the sees is a shadow with a gun firing at him and he's completely within his rights and it is internationally has the right to defend himself or to attack that object and kill that person turns out to be a twelve year old with like a forty seven it's heartbreaking but unfortunately unavoidable it has happened and

it was yes they recruit children so they are not responsible for my age of atrocities and they form a significant part of the combat force of all caught on when i saw double tragedy there's nothing to be done to avoid that it's a long term solution kids belong in school not on their arms. you know conventional armies at this point have been going high tech with drone satellites other hardware in place is this high tech approach also available to pm cease are they using the latest send the hottest or do you guys just make do with what you've got. you know what astonishes me whose military technology has gone over the last day cradle to grave and all the fact the americans. in the continental united states and direct of their own to kill an enemy out there on the wall to push for both of them is amazing p.m.c.

it differently do not have access to that level or so first sophisticated armament the best the p.m.c. could hope for is a working g.p.s. . perhaps a good radio or satellite company and perhaps a little bit better all moments then what do you know weapons perhaps the all helicopter or fixed wing aircraft or two that makes the difference. thank you very much for this interview different to have heard your inside or talking to a. better run up executive outcomes discussing his life with a soldier for hire on the future of privatized war that's it for this edition of i will see you next time.

china has arrived in europe in a very big way everyone in the west welcomes the support of china. is a game changer the washington consensus that has dominated the world for the past seven decades is being challenged to turn to the east. especially brutal. killing but also. smiles i see. the.

u.k. prime minister begs europe for the delay to bragg's at this time until the end of june but it seems. julian the songs you supporters held a vigil outside the embassy in london months after wiki leaks said that its co-founder would be expelled within hours to days. so.

it's our responsibility to eliminate this risk we own it and we know how to do it.