again altitude aviation analyst to julian bray said of the problem first came to light two years ago. they have really super knew very huge leap engines on the front of the aircraft and they pushed well forward so the whole weight distribution of the aircraft is different so artificially has to maintain the. fuselage on this plane now what happens of course the weight will naturally falls the nose up and then it goes into a stall position so the software brings the nose of the aircraft down so this but what's happening is repeated commands are going into the system and so it's going like this and this this and then on the power the aircraft is drilling into the ground and that's what's been happening di now i understand that isa which is a european organization that regulates is things knew about this two years ago and they issued a document suggesting that things should be done so we're really. creates more

questions and being oncet at the moment watching our two international. for a single purpose. of. training very young. eight months of intensive school. rats. and they save lives.

paul welcome to sophie and go and sophie shevardnadze one of the ice is affiliated to sam laid upon nigeria worsen or is played a major role in pushing the terrorist spec is outsourcing the name of the game when it comes to modern conflicts will ask was classrooms to mention director at programs africa and veteran soldier for hire. mercenaries have been the mainstay of african walls for decades have a good decisive impact in sierra leone. nigeria and other theaters of conflict and while the media portrays them as dangerous cash hungry brutes local government still has soldiers of fortune to get them out of tight spots small mercenary

companies more efficient than regular national news on this continent private military contractors of viable solution to endless regional conflicts and could their actions help to bring peace to water on hotspots in the long. haul those classrooms manging director at programs africa and executive out. comes veteran welcome to the show that's great to have you with us and good of you run your own security company now after having spent eight years and the special forces and then reached fame as a member of a mercenary unit expected outcomes there have been t.v. programs about you characters are based on you it was played by leonardo di caprio and blood diamond are you using all this fame and attention to bring more clients to promote the business is a good thing right so we all get older obviously and we followed the film career process it be just that if you find something from the stuff. so much special

forces units born units close but not the same that's where i spend my military career and yes also that i joined executive outcomes and i had a couple of years with them and also that are for my own company and then carried on from there now for the last eleven twelve years it's been programs africa which i moved to show that i'm the director quite happy to do normal commercial and the mystic type of security work. all right but what about the media question do you like the media attention that help you get climate clients is a good for but is a good thing for business. no i don't like i'm media shy and so many people in my in my business and i have on one of the older guys around and i feel that we should have a voice and if it's a sensible said the questions we should answer them and we should speak out for our industry and also for that of the private military business because we feel that

has the right to exist as a place of modern business and politics and somebody should answer those questions and be on the media so here i am reluctant to leave but quite willingly yes so why is it though because other mercenaries from your generation that i talked to and i've spoken to quite a few they said that the media always portrayed them in a negative light do you feel that things as well do you feel that the public opinion is against you because you're considered a mercenary well well well thought out well balanced media will follow the story regardless unfortunately in the early days of executive outcomes. there was a a more sinister or a more politically driven agenda death planted stories this is well documented given ballers of the search and the subsequent book from there. so to a degree executive outcomes was the victim of a smear campaign which is different from good reporting on the other side of the

coin that we have enjoyed fair and honest reporting for example the b.b.c. reported on their presence in sierra leone back and ninety five ninety six ninety seven in a very favorable and correct manner because at the end of that conflict all parties that was in the conflict was tried or was investigated by the special court. executive elvis was given a clean bill of health and this was well reported by the b.b.c. and was picked up on the news media so yes there's good and bad we have to live with it that's that's what of the world that we live in so the private military companies on the continent like pilgrim's africa that you're running because they're all based on people like you south african or are the original army veterans is there a new generation coming to replace you guys are there are young people interested in this kind of work. i maybe just make another distinction quickly programs africa as part of the british programs group we have commercial security for well over

a dish that we pay our taxes and we do nothing that can be considered to be but at the time of work. but yes to answer the second part of your question in private military companies they certainly ease a new generation back in the day it was an exclusive small group most commonly known as the so everybody knew each other and to a degree people understood that a profession of people and because death is one of the action in iraq and afghanistan that led to eighty a whole generation of new young short soldiers that left the services and went into the private security work and many of them found their way into private military companies the market was flooded not necessarily with quality people many of the guys were good but many of the guys were not so good and some of them were got kicked out of the military and also migrated towards

a career in the private security industry so to be honest modern security persons have to catch up with others in the world and properly bait. candidates and employees and go through the same process as any corporate entity would be studies to determine if the candidate sitting in front of them for the job interview is in fact qualified is in fact experienced and he's infected aren't going for the job. so. i can see that you know. you're so experienced in the military world and in private military what how do you recruit people do you look for physical attributes first and foremost or mental strength or moral fiber how can you tell without combat tasking that a person is solid reliable hireable. all this again two sides to this this on so the first is a commercial security business that is of international scale and it s. clients that a list of companies all over the world. you know there's

a new international standard for security companies it's called the p a c one standard united nations that are when it is client facing it is all about compliance and so on of that process we have to be compliant with the way we recruit a person no whether we recruit a security guard or whether we recruit the director so we go through the same recruitment process as any corporate entity would go through when it comes to a p.m.c. or other let me let me delve down a little bit into the sort of slightly murkier world but at the contracts that is handed down by dodgy governments or by dodgy entities and it's word of mouth normally they would approach somebody that they trust or they would be they would be i have a solution it's to them by a entity that is what it is that offshoring that consists of former military personnel and those guys with the word of mouth they would use social media or phone calls emails and they would gather the guards pretty quickly. in general they

were they could people they know but if it's a large contract and there's a lot of guys needed and obvious the sometimes the quality slips a little bit. so you mentioned that your company mostly does defense where and he said that you make a distinction between companies that only do protection jobs and those that also go on this rancid jing in this working on a company that can mount offensive operations and more fun to me chopper hopping after i don't know boko haram going to bush than escorting an oil executive from the airport to the rake and back. there's all sorts of differences between a commercial security company and a p.m.c. . a commercial security company delivers a wide range of services that borders on the just eco services outsourcing services technical services for example the installation of security measures around a office of c.c.t.v. cameras fencing lights it provides man guarding this is a god the front of office guy that sits at

a security post or somebody that patrols a large yard with a sense now on the other hand the p.m.c. will often engage in combat and that for me is the difference p.m.c. is don't necessarily engage in combat p.m.c. use private military companies can get involved in the back end. but at the. proper but at least proper armies across the world in a support role but pm sees are sometimes also involved in combat training and then in some cases they get involved in combat and that for me is the main distinction if you ask me whether i miss the days that i left the army and i in part of a private company i think i can combat yes it's a brotherhood and you do miss. and it is special and the bonds that you form back then stays with you forever but as you can see i'm getting older and greyer now so that is not my number one priority in life anymore do you ever encounter customers that try to misrepresent your mission in any way you're interviewing south right

there to work. oh no. it's the store it's the stuff that stories of fictional made off to be honest when a p.m.c. engages with a customer. the contractual requirements and normally laid bare long before any work is done before any money changes hands during a mission or during a deployment or during the duration of a contract yes that acquirements may change but being tricked into a change it's never have after that in any operation or any kind of conflict i was involved in. normally they would be a bit of give and take normally they would be add on expectations from the customer sometimes objectives are met by the p.m.c. not necessarily a visible clear or the specific objectives that the client wants and so that would be a process of negotiation it is a business off the dole. time something when p.m.c.

is have to defeat an enemy on the ground they act like classic army they start with an air onslaught then finish them on the ground what are the techniques pam says boy it's only in collateral yes when the pm seen gauges and combat it's there's no difference between that and any other armed force engaging in combat the fact that they for some reason work for a civilian company a private company does what they are on a contract raise makes no difference once the bullets start flying the same tactics apply and. in each and every case that i have been involved in that i know of the mcs took extraordinary measures to avoid collateral damage specifically the targeting or even the accidental harm to civilians in most cases they were they were greatly successful because they said that as an object of a a standing army. that attacks or bombs or target will consider collateral damage but in the political way it's not their prime concern whereas for a p.m.c.

it is very much so often in the planning for most of your combat operations for a few see where i was involved. the effect and the impact on civilians was front and foremost in the planners minds and often times when there was a chance of civilians getting hurt the plan was not executed to us mortify in order to avoid that. like any private business is concerned this those things that is bad for business having civilians hurt or killed or having a property damage that shouldn't be damage is definitely bad for business so therefore of p.m.c. sometimes considers things in a different way than a standing military would. we'll take a short break right now we'll be back discussing outsourcing the war to a private companies it was called was classes at all programs africa and bettering go for hire stay with us.

u.s. veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the search that says we're going to destroy the government in seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with their money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed for a war surely we can risk some discomfort or an easy

for. in the world of political matchmaking the european union has long put values before wealth as its most desirable and tribute. to the time it takes for the e.u. to make a policy decision china can set up a whole new industry of values that's attractive to potential partners. young elephants have come to. us basically brutal budgeting incidents because. do you see them. smile i see it if you. say so express some changes.

and we're back with classes had of programs africa security company and former member of executives outcomes talking about his life as a gun for hire on the role of private military companies in modern battlefield so you want convention bans to use of mercenaries while civilian governments use it as a dirty word and yet we see that time and time again where serious come to their

rescue i say in sierra leone there for instance against boko haram etc why are private military contractors more effective than un peacekeepers or national armies for that matter we're going to come down to a you know both of mix but it reached a refugee and. mixed with business principles so that's where the p.m.c. has an advantage over and you can call them. on for example to a client request in the quickest most efficient way possible political considerations not so much foremost in their planning business principles are you getting paid by the hour. then you would make sure that you're as official as you can be in that hour so that's first and foremost where the pm sees can be more efficient then but of things i have to qualify that is no p.m.c. on this planet that can fight a major war that's not the point and that's never

a way of p.m.'s he's comes in at this point in time and into the foreseeable future of pm sees provides a limited yet spoken efficient solution as part of a larger than broader solution for example you mention backcourt on the other ninety eight and i happen to be a ninety eight and they happen to understand what happened here the p.m.c. that came here was not contracted through when the war the p.m.c. that came here was contract that train a unit and to create that from scratch and then to go into combat and achieve limited objectives so as to show the nigerian but at the some initiative to get them on the front foot to get some momentum going and to achieve certain limited objectives i believe they were contracted initially only to come in and the rescue the chibok girls you remember the girls that were kidnapped from their school and that mission been changed eventually became slightly broader in scope but they were never the idea that they would stay here for years and fight the war it was meant

to be fought by the national army they were for a specific mission and that's why some people make the mistake and report that wrongly nigerian soldiers a brave and physically capable fight and quite willing to fight so that affected some of the best in the world i fought with them i can i can say that however their leadership has failed and possibly the ship has the chain the right that the logistical capability of the nigerian but at the end they training has been lacking has been lacking going so they had a p.m.c. can come in the cup to select very quickly at least all the training standards and doctrine at the same time help them with their logistical supply and procurement so that i things of all the things that will method and make a difference teach them how to use that help them to do. boy that and then step back and step out of this out of the picture so the pm sees it all is a limit that will be a very effective one. so nigeria continues its struggle with boko haram which is now seemingly split into two factions your former colleagues from meo have put the

haraam on the wrong three years ago working for the nigerian government but saying that the group is still here where their efforts not out how would you assess first of all the full mario as you say this album has this band of the lone prime ago the company that was contracted to come and help the nigerian government. was a different company some of the posts and other things were the same but believe me very few on the whole this was not the from company at the from a bunch of people and i know because i met some of them and i spoke to them and obviously we interact on social media embodiment of snowfall. that they do a good job they did a brilliant job they did it confessed the key well considering the constraints of time and money they were given just a part of the budget that they were promised and they were given a very short period of time as a matter of fact over the same to mobilize them you know mobilization like that would be a logistical if and logistics means arms and ammunition nobody sells arms and

ammunition over these private company everybody goes on holiday so they pulled it off and let it go myself and let it go because unfortunately due to financial constraints they confine themselves to base and then they left they withdrew out of nigeria it's a great pity that they were not given the opportunity to finish what they were contracted for i believe they would have saved hundreds of thousands of lines and nigeria's northeast would be in the politically far more stable condition than it is right now and like a lot of other militants in africa boko haram is operating in an area where it's is it to cross the border and flee into chalk nigeria cameron is facing too much pressure can nigeria even deal with it on its own. no i don't think so nigeria needs a concentrated effort. it has to be collaborative effort between each year commitment chat at least and that year and all of these other countries needs help . most of them but at the hawke back to conventional days there are all the best of

the structures the way they teach these soldiers and train them is a come in a conventional manner unfortunately they are facing a counter-insurgency or an insurgency in the me and they need to adopt a counterinsurgency strategy and tactics and equipment and formations they need help with that they need to be assistance in order to restructure the material the manpower on the ground fantastic they brave the stronger physically capable they nationalistic they are out of their countries they will find that they need to be helped how to find and they need to be equipped critic the untrained cricketing. iraqi that back in sierra leone excited about comes so successful because it was able to get help from local militias who knew the areas and the people in the side against alcohol rom do you see much trust between the military operating in the country's north east and the locals. well that's an important decision for governments that are faced with an enemy like all caught on has to make and that is

whether through in this civilian help officially in some countries like sierra leone it was done successfully dillo call hunting societies was organized enough that i'm going to the group and a part of that was placed on the executive outcomes control and utilized video actively the same can happen here but first of all there's to be a political decision by the political leadership of the country are we going to arm civilians and put them in harm's way in order to supply and support the military if they do make that decision and however wide or limited that decision may be in those people can be invaluable as a matter of fact right now to fight these kind of to boycott and it's offspring by local militias that are simply armed with shotguns and the occasional like a forty seven these people are fighting to protect they have lands these villages and they have people so they are effective in what they are doing in a counterinsurgency you know i think the scope for that to be organized well controlled well trained well mobilized and it will certainly add value. go around

pledged allegiance to i says a long time ago but do you see an isis province or nigeria story face as a real possibility at this stage or is it now more like a jihadi pipe dream. look i'm sure there's a technical difference between isis but for all our swell all quiet on this island what not. if you take a step back and you look at the problem it isn't a militant islamist problem they each have a unique character uniquely theirs and maybe slight the princes and tactics and approach to the issue but it's a common enemy and it starts with all the way across the region now and it should be seen as that so i have no idea what that isis with the study says so he hadn't called himself death although they were there right on the back of the already established islamist but at the movements you told me there's an enemy and is destabilizing the state killing a lot of innocent people need to be stopped welcome hieron reportedly uses child

soldiers and so did the revolutionary revolutionary united front the group you faced off with in sierra leone did you ever have to engage a unit that includes children i mean how tough is it for a soldier to face them on a battlefield is a person and his size the child's first soldier second or vice versa. in africa young people as being combatants for evah in sierra leone we found that immediately. it's really hard for the soldier in a context of choice in a battle situation to distinguish the age of the opponent all the sees is a shadow with a gun firing at him and he's completely within his rights and it is internationally has the right to defend himself or to attack that object and kill that person turns out to be a twelve year old with like a forty seven it's heartbreaking but unfortunately unavoidable it has happened and it will continue to happen because these are not standing armies these are not

people that play by the rules yes they recruit children so they are not responsible for my age of atrocities and they form a significant part of the combat force of all caught on when i saw a double tragedy there's nothing to be done to avoid that it's a long term solution kids belong in school not under arms you know conventional armies at this point having going high tech would drown satellites out there hardware in place is inside track operad also available to play mcs are they using the latest sound of hatter's or do that just make do with what you've got no what astonishes me is where military technology has gone over the last decade when they couldn't all the fact that a man can sit in a complain that in the continental united states and direct the drone to kill an enemy alfredo on the walls at the push of a button is amazing p.m.c. is definitely do not have access to that level of supposed sophisticated all

moments the best the p.m.c. can hope for is a working g.p.s. . perhaps through the radio shows like company creations and perhaps a little bit better all moments than what the enemy asked but the often times it's even match i k forty seven heavy machine guns and tank weapons perhaps the odd helicopter or fixed wing aircraft of two that makes the difference. call was thank you very much for this interview different to have heard your inside or talking to . programmes africa and better and up executive outcomes discussing his libels us soldier for hire on the future of privatized that's it for this edition of sophie and co i will see you next time.

after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising. or not so you think. i'm going to talk about football not the or else you can think i was going to do. by the way what is the flooding here. china has arrived in europe in a very big way and not everyone in the west welcomes this italy support of china's belgian road initiative is a game changer the washington consensus that has dominated the world for the past

seven decades is being challenged to turn to the east continues. u.k. prime minister begs europe for yet another delay to bragg's at this time until the end of june but some of the e.u. members say that they are ready to take a tough line.