you know it's creates value yeah what do you know what's interesting is that up until the one nine hundred seventy s. the financial sector wasn't even included in g.d.p. it was actually seen as just a transfer of existing value from one place to another kind of like you would include social security payments is just a transfer and before that in fact the way we would talk about finance was also in terms of rent so the classical economist talked about in terms of unearned income it literally just moving stuff around which of course isn't true of all the finance but anyway there is this kind of skepticism of what is finance actually doing and so in the one nine hundred seventy s. which is when the deregulation and some other changes the size of the financial sector started to become larger what you had was that the people who were doing the systems of the national accounts s.n.a. inside the united nations started to say i got this thing that's growing larger and larger in the economy isn't even being accounted for so instead of pausing and saying oh dear why is that what is this thing this blog actually doing they just came up with

a justification for including it so investment banking was included under the term risk taking that it was a service for risk taking remember that when you include things into the national accounts you have to kind of say what it is doing so in the u.s. as national income and product accounting so all of this is suddenly stuffed into the g.d.p. figures out without any kind of value judgement is it actually producing something or is it just moving things there when you maybe want your virtual t.v. channel or newspaper and it's talking about basically g.d.p. growth is all that we can hope for for you without booze using this sort of massive well let me give you a little test. what happens if someone is cleaning your house let's not make this under a civic and then you marry that man. what happens to g.d.p. before it falls and if you pollute. we all in the river so all the strain the only shows or things that only the only things that we pay

for get included to explain the pollution or yeah so when we pollute g.d.p. nothing happens to it only once we pay someone to clean up the pollution does it change and in this case it would rise or the example of the cleaner was if someone is doing something in your house and then they keep doing it even if you're no longer paying them perhaps because you married them and they still do that the g.d.p. was is going down whereas other services in the house for example care you know really important care services which we know are very valuable in the kind of a more colloquial sense simply because they're not being paid for don't going to g.d.p. this by the way something that feminists economists have been arguing for a very long time environmental economists have been arguing the point about pollution for a very long time what i kind of brought to the table was this whole issue about also the financial sector which is you know is that actually creating value how would we kind of make that valuation given that actually how we measure value is simply through price it is for the really big as a feminist to go in as divorce is good as well yeah why not exactly but you know

this is the big revolution and in the history of economic thought is that the logic used to be from value to price nowadays we have a theory of price which then determines what we value so take teachers what's really interesting with public schoolteacher the public schools the teachers that work inside them because the service gets provided for free to citizens we don't actually include the value of a well structured you know education system all we include are the the costs so the salaries of the teachers go into g.d.p. not the value of the product that they're producing if you divide it by the demand side as you can cut g.d.p. in different ways but on the demand side so all the consumption spending all the government spending the investment spending and exports this country mainly grows to consumption led growth and that consumption is fueled by private debt and the ratio. private disposable income is actually back at record levels to what it was just before the financial or that is you talk about apple the one the most valuable

companies in the world so again by you meeting government. or government investment in these sorts of figures we arrive at the idea of apple being a great. company with a lot of other nerds garage tinkerer is etc you say it's the government that well what i need in the case of the apple story in this kind of builds on my previous book called entrepreneurial state is that the state in again how we talk about an economy is just seen as fixing a problem economists say fixing market failures and if you think of the more colloquial use of you know you're talking about the state it's there to enable to facilitate a de risk to set some sort of basic framework conditions and then get the hell out of the way but actually what the state has done in places like silicon valley and the few places in the world that have actually grown through innovation because there's different ways to grow the state actually acted as an investor an investor a first resort but when we just think of the state of spender administrator regulator we don't sort of capture this investment side and the true story behind

apple is that everything that makes that phone smart to not stupid was funded by the public sector so internet touchscreen display g.p.s. siri the voice activated system all those were funded not only by public money but by particular organizations that darpa in the department of defense that also has had to be structured in a particular way in order to you know use the smart innovation driven investments but it's because we don't think of the state as creating value but just facilitating it and fixing market failures we also don't ask ourselves for countries that want to emulate for example the silicon valley model what does this mean for how we structure our public organizations to take risks to experiment to explore to be more mission oriented other guys are available. when the operative by the way is in trouble with the u.s. government but where did it become all. and when does it become all pervasive that innovation goes from the private sector not from go to directly the opposite

of what you're saying then the name adam smith being used so often as part of this idea that government is role that's just factually wrong by the way so even if you survey as completely mysterious because adam smith what he meant by the word free market was free from rent free from rent and rent seeking to really free the economy or print you also need and vicious policies that do sell but i would say so i start the book with quoting plato not adam smith and i say that plato said storytellers rule the world and the stories about where wealth creation comes from so only in companies like apple or in the financial sector a better capitalism cetera is i think a story that also then justifies this very skewed way in which we're distributing the rewards which are actually fruit of a much more collective system and so what i would argue is that the kind of battle against the state that began with margaret thatcher and ronald reagan had to be accompanied by a whole narrative a discourse a story using plato's words that kind of portrayed the state as being you know

a bit boring and inertial but what most people don't realize and so it's not enough just to tell that kind of basic story is that the tech itself the really high risk technology was also funded by the state must use the new hero of space but also solar electric vehicles he received five billion dollars from the u.s. government forestry companies space x. tests and solar city these are investments in particular companies and it's really i think quite foolish to think that the taxpayer only socializes the risks and then we privatized the rewards as we did by the way with the bailouts of the banking system rather than the old that everybody has to bail out and their spirit he goes on but of course i mean just in the past few days the word marxist just come up repeatedly in parliament actually as a word of contempt and even by b.b.c. journalism yet the word mocks occurs again and again in this book. what is it do you think the horror of. the most of you who have never read marx at best they read

the communist manifesto and how how does most help the marxist fascinating and if you mean the irony is if you read marx you end up really appreciating capitalism he describes it as a system driven by innovation constantly changing he has these wonderful metaphors for that change even in the comments manifesto but i'm really talking about capital is kind of magnum opus capital volume one two and three which i read as carefully as i did adam smith's wealth wealth of nations david ricardo's principles of political economy the three were the classical economists compared to today's neo classical economist david ricardo already in eight hundred twenty one was asking the question that everyone thinks they're so smart when they talk about it today the robots are taking our jobs he was already saying this mechanization which is fueling growth under the industrial revolution has huge problematic features it's displacing labor it's causing unemployment and a pressure for wages to go down but then what you have for two hundred years up until the one nine hundred eighty s. basically is that the profits that were being generated from this new machinery and

industrial revolution were being reinvested in other parts of the economy so even though some jobs were being displaced there were then being found elsewhere literally creative destruction not just in technology but in jobs what then happened at the same time of the facts or reagan years you had this obsession with maximizing shareholder value in terms of how companies were governed and that was you know became i think a fundamental problem sickness in modern day capitalism which we're really seeing still today which is the lack of reinvestment of profits back into the economy the profits are being hoarded on record levels but also being used simply to boost share prices and stock options and executive pay through practices like share buybacks so three trillion dollars have been spent to share buybacks in the last ten years by the fortune five hundred companies and when you talk to companies that engage with this practice and that would include you know pfizer says. exxon apple they say well there's no opportunities for investment and then you look around and you see massive opportunities we have you know climate change which the i.p.c.c.

report tells us we have twelve years left twelve we have all sorts of challenges around health systems that really could be rebuilt and remember that if you do this ambitiously this also creates opportunities for profits themselves in modern economic thought that instead of looking at these objective conditions of production division of labor mechanization productivity they look at preferences so even wages are seen as the outcome of the preferences that workers have for leisure versus work and it's all focused on the individual the individual company maximizing profits the individual consumer maximizing utility worker maximizing their choice of leisure versus work and that kind of takes the attention away from the structural conditions of the economy which are very problematic president as a coder thank you for the break a new film about revolutionary cuban ballet dancer carlos acosta office not to go to mainstream portrayals of the socialist nation we speak to the film's director and its writer daniel blake scribe all that but we. shall go with.

the red. revolution from that all the people going about to go underground. i think more do good is an outstanding person because he took on the most powerful agency in money or you need to stay busy look at it from the book one now and see. mark was the day that when he was five and the like. do going to spin the shares some of this contentious critic of the year is the first time i noticed something wasn't right in police work pretty much money for starting the corruption in palm beach county it's not something that you can smell or. it's not. as a wing it wasn't what i wanted to do. we've

had more shootings in this county then some states have had a collective thing going went to his website began featuring comments about his family the sheriff might have met sonja squash you like a bug you know i wish you'd stop when you said santa let me stop i believe what i'm doing also like ok you know it's your funeral. p.b.s. and critics in the house. i snuck out of the united states. into russia political. men they know as bad wolf. i do think the numbers mean something they've matter us with over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime happens to. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be rich eight point six percent world market thirty

percent some with one hundred to five hundred three per second per second and when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars . but don't let the numbers over. the only number you need to remember one one business show you know board the mid one and only boom box. welcome back united states economic wall will undoubtedly continue on countries in latin america. this week with further sanctions on venezuela and cuba being i'd buy the trumpet ministration is it any wonder when measures like these are parroted by

the age of asian mainstream media for the new film that follows the life of revolutionary cuban ballet dancer carlos acosta uses dance to dispel the mainstream media myths around cuba as well as highlight the effects of decades of u.s. economic war in the socialist nation we met up with the film's writer paul laverty who also wrote i daniel blake with ken loach and the film's director issue of bullying in central london i started by asking paul what made him choose the project i'm a very good friend called and recall that it is a scottish producer should read carlos's autobiography no way home because the cost of the ballad of valley done so yes and it's a terrific read noise i get it done so he's a great writer and it was hilarious the because just really sparky very very funny he grew up in a very pure and abana his dad was an absolute brute but he's also loved in a sort of strange sort of way in going to work the age of nine himself he was a grandson to a slave so he's really tough on carlos and didn't want carlos to going to trouble this is right you're going to school so the exact opposite of billy elliot and

there's carlos carlos they want to dance and he wanted to play football the opposite you know exactly so and that was the starting off point of that was and then then we went met carlos yeah and then we're meant to abandon to see him in there with his company the company that place that big rolling in the film and then i mean there were so many reasons to do the film and very few do not do in the film because he's such an amazing kind of there is is a boy who starts from a. neighborhood in atlanta in sap playing the first black romeo in that area so it's an incredible journey and then him and then we could tell the story so we went for it because it's a warts and all picture of cuba as well which is in the news obviously don't trump saying we're going to destroy the country and it's usually midget. as the war kind of economy that will be brought in by germany gober conscious of how you're going

to depict the kuber of color's acosta yeah well we just wanted to be truthful because them and we listen to the propaganda from trump an hour from the british government we forget that there's an economic embargo against the staining nation is going to have for sixty years which is totally against international law and is condemned every single year in the general assembly the united nations and they try to stereotype it but we actually go to cuba it's actually a very determined self-sufficient brilliant nation you know is certainly fill the full with the united states is you know illegal and bargo but there's a great spot where there's great vitality brilliant talent fantastic dancers some of the best ballet dancers best education systems in the world they don't talk about are very much under him so carlos grow up i'm not i mean just wanted to really be to be truthful to that and we look at that economic period you know as the special piece was a bit of a tough people trying to escape and rough so we don't try to. make it rosy we just try to be truthful callouses life and kind of his life obviously you know is

wrapped around what's happened in cuba of his last forty five years of his life just the smoke the butler scream. do you feel that was this was odd to put their lives and they did into it because it's so startlingly political in what is otherwise a story of aspiration you know something it was hard to defend because. it had quite a few critical critical people on it but the thing is as paul says you cannot understand cuba without the united states so because we are are not only telling cutlasses life cover story we are talking about cuba the united states has been broken in the island for the last fifty or the years. the united states have interfere in the politics of so many other countries as smoothly which was these in this general area pacifist after her. his life. in intervene in so many other countries he became a pacifist and he wrote this book which was call what he said rocket and then to

enter the i mean that was an amazing idea to say ok let's dance something the united states in the race and all over the world all the still valid things and we just go on that is that there was an amusing character really well known up until very recently he was the most awarded military figure and the entire history unbelievable a marine general smedley butler but people don't know his name and it's because after when he retired he just said i've become a thug i have been i was washed and al capone alcohol only had three districts we invaded three continents and so this wonderful remarkable man his voice has been silenced and i'm so glad of that an issue of very conscious of the fact that your work obviously the veil was filmed you're always talking about huge geopolitical ideas and then focus from drumming so tell me is there were a lot about the script first i don't know how you. or whether you asked him or.

under god i would ask him and then he asked me and then we both came in as a team well i think that was what was fascinating our callouses life story is about carlos it's about that q one dance here in this is about how how he managed to break through and be a super successful one of the best in his generation but also he's cuban and also his life goes parallel to the last forty years and that's something which where they're in the story i mean carlos his family which he's very present in the film lived through the last forty years of their life in the island and that was fascinating because you're telling the story of an amazing dance about the story of this country in the last but it doesn't force a bus there i mean carlos he's twenty twenty when he when he's hired by the by the english national ballet and then when he comes back to cuba he faces. totally says that in the economy the soviet union has collapsed eight cuba has disappeared and

they face these special period which was which was the worst time ever in the island so him so he faced that and he senses that he wanted back in cuba and everybody was leaving so we didn't force that into the story that that was actually what actually happened and it's the same thing with today carlos man who has decided to be part of the president of his island by creating his company there and as part of the film as well so he's not in your ear of no he was always connected to cuba he was holding back to cuba he was he never forgot his roots so all these things were what make this story so attractive so relevant detail and so full of of well it's a great story and it wasn't forced to actually talk about all these things in cuba because is what happened and it was very nice was actually laying some of the question actually was bring in the film back to heaven or you know there was a five thousand four hundred people in the calm of cinema to see the opening of the film of the festival and there were supposed to say again that issue again and what

was remarkable was just defection there for carlos because he has not forgotten his resume to come of all superstar in the world of dance because never forgot his roots and he wants to go back to cuba and he wants to contribute and build things there again and i think that's why he's held in such affection just on there's a scene where you really is in a place we're hearing looking at mainstream media coverage all of cuba why pick that particular clip of where he's looking at it we were just talking about all the people trying to flee well it was but again it goes back to his point there when he went back in israel in his early twenty's there it coincided with the collapse of the soviet union there was still the embargo the united states there was great poverty in the country and people were trying to flee you know free and if in you know escape and rafts and we just fell with the boat was part of the reality and something that deeply touched. as a cuban you say need to see in the penis people what we saw was a very important point to train bring in what about this blurring of fiction and

reality when ken loach was on our show he talked about your script for i don't know blake that script was mentioned in the house of commons with politicians here saying this is fiction it's not real what is this blurring of fiction in reality in the hugely well it's a very good question and then because his father was actually born he was a grandson of a slave. that whole experience really marked him he went to work the age of nine he was brutalized himself and beaten up by a bit of it unleashed on father be given a very very rough background and their colors it had all these stories about slavery you know and cuba yeah magine them it was part of his reality too and i think as we have making sense of his father so it didn't go to the actual plantation they decided to dance it because he was absolutely convinced that those are the experiences that made his father such a tough contradictory characters so although it's not literal i would argue it's

very very truthful play going to make films together again because obviously i understand you both met on carlos well the setting of a spanish civil war movie which obviously was not always going to take what. we've done three so far hopefully we'll do more years ago in the. film directed by the wonderful ken loach called landon through them so he got me into a lot of trouble because he introduced me to theatre so m. you ever made the three films together may when the if she for patients continues she may do another one with us i don't know what went on until i do. i never think of evidence it's never take every day i have very high demand saw i have to join the queue as you as you just said yeah i was land of freedom not closed as a regular rug. i know the films already won awards or you've won or it's the. going to take it to one guy dough in venezuela or in both florida and brazil and all the countries in the atmosphere that may not be so rosy about the victories of jager of

our fidel castro i would love to bring it there and perhaps if they had a society where everybody who has over there is good talent you know have a chance to go to school and fulfill the talent i would love i would love to see that but when you see mr dawson are just now in in and one of the biggest countries in brazil celebrating an army which just convicted of so much torture and murder. i think it probably did i'm good to see some beauty some dance some imagination and the and the famous and the subtlety of the human spirit thing i would be brilliant and i would cause for venezuela as well. with daniel ortega. thank you both if i. look good to the guy good to see the with the conceit good to. see.

you leave the call us acosta story is in u.k. cinemas this friday that's it for the show will be played out by singer songwriter nattie with his song revolution c. on wednesday to talk last civilizations and colonialist talking all the g. with bestselling author graham hancock his nasty with revolution. been thinking about what you said. i've been thinking about your mind. down by the lake side. see you minds and. all those things you've said i. want to say this stand.

we talk a lot about me. back in london. they saw couldn't saw so their faces go. they say your go in the town. but i don't see. not firing your eyes. when i see your bow and down. standing before me is the shadow of. dream the revolution.

i dream the revolution. us veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either there already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the circular defenses officers were got back and destroy their governments and seven countries in five years americans pay for the walls with them

money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed for a war then surely we can risk some discomfort or uneasiness for peace. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confront dacian let it be an arms race is on offense very dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. best's drugs were at her cocaine as were four bucks for dia under thirty to

everybody use cocaine crack cocaine you can smoke it this is worth like fifteen thirty. twenty. this is about a fifteen dollar bet and people smoke this one bigger second sweetie you go for these drugs in any city in the united states that you walk along as you want to get it. i make money. and that's what i do every day. was nothing compared to.

finding rages for control of the libyan capital tripoli the u.n. on the united states up pulling troops an inside to see military action. and general election looms that is well under incumbent leader benjamin netanyahu faces a close race we'll look at how much his relations with the u.s. played a role in the upcoming vote. meeting mold power struggle to find a non so on. what to do with foreign fighters who are joined by still in syria and iraq another want to go home r.t. his from some of the militant. it might be the biggest mistake of my life that we emigrated. that we made absolutely cannot be undone unfortunately we will be

punished for the missed.