images of ecuador's ambassador inviting the secret police into the embassy to drag a publisher of like it or not award winning journalism out of the building we're going to end up in the history books and sanjay's critics may cheer but this is a dark moment for press freedom so indeed edward snowden another well it was snowden got asylum in russia no indication that moscow plans to send him away anytime soon so he's got that going for him well not so not so lucky i mean yes he is he did appear he has just appeared in court just a quick reminder and indeed when you speak of other whistleblowers the case of chelsea manning and i mean mind this the department of justice in the states as just connected the two we just connected julian assange and chelsea manning because they're both now accused of conspiring and chelsea manning is in jail in the united states she was put in jail last month when she refused to testify in front of the

in front of the grand jury in a we kill leaks probe so a lot of people are saying that just things fall into place here endless sort of the puzzle you can start you can start to see the full the full picture and what speaking of chelsea manning really you don't have to look any further than her experience because the un special rapporteur on torture did officially accuse the united states of subjecting chelsea manning to degrading and inhumane. to humanely borderline torture i should say because when she got arrested. degrading and inhumane treatment when she was arrested and she got thirty five years in a maximum security prison at fort leavenworth and eventually barack obama slashed that thing to eventually he pardoned her pardoned and she only spent seven years in prison thinking about the. timing of these things like you say it's

a few weeks ago chelsea manning jailed and now this with judas stands out it's interesting isn't it because. president donald trump during his campaigning did vowed to have a tougher stance take a tougher stance towards whistleblowers and now suddenly all of this focus on whistleblowers and president trump as we know is become quite renowned for his one method so it does seem like you know his new tunnel vision seems to be on well absolutely the prosecuting him persecuting whistleblowers did don't trump did make that a cornerstone one of the cornerstones of his election campaign so yes absolutely and also again there is a precedent of chelsea manning there is already everyone's already see what the u.s. justice system did to her i mean that's the most recent case before that there was john and other whistleblowers so that's why a lot of people and even those of some julian assange of supporters who we've just

had on the show just a few minutes ago that's why they're not buying this whole narrative because of how what exactly julian assange is facing in the states because officially according to the release by the department of justice he's facing up to five years in prison because this is the maximum. the maximum term for the offense that he's being incriminated. the actually even go as far as saying that actual sentences for federal crimes are typically less than the maximum penalty so the fine print here is sort of reading between the lines he's like look it's just five years and probably not even that much not in not even that money probably going to be three three and a half maybe parole something like that but when you have chelsea manning case out there looking at it and she was basically just let she was set free at the whim of the former president barack obama who says. donald trump or whoever the next president of the. united states is is going to be the so forgiving i mean trump if

trump gets reelected in two thousand and twenty i mean again he sees made a big big case and persecuting whistleblowers and ministration as well we've had my poem pale puling we can leaks a. enemy an enemy aiding website basically a weapon of the enemy and he's went after his son billy as well while a son was holed up in the ecuadorian embassy and i mean the democratic party the democratic part of the us stablish men don't have anything they don't have a signed anything to think for either because we can leaks published not just some not just the cia documents not just the military's documents but the also published documents of the democratic national committee's vender the publish something emails of hillary clinton that from that of that they got from. self made on north of a so a sanchez roughened up some feathers on all sides of the us political spectrum

there's the he's got no allies there he's got nobody there to stand up for him except for one full of his supporters and his lawyers so it's literally this is what we're going to see next is what you get when you cross the biggest and the most powerful superpower in the world because basically unlimited resources in terms of hunting down would ever enemy it wants to eat just an update for our viewers now. a song right now is in courts in the u.k. and the judge has found a song guilty of breaking bail conditions i want to songes lawyers has argued that the owners did not surrender the bell back in two of the twelve because he would never have received a fair trial and was thus forced to seek asylum in the ecuadorian embassy. the judge appeared to dispute this and called the australian wiki leaks founder analysis to or cannot get beyond his own selfish. interest judge michael snyder

said the songs will face another herring by video link on the second of may so there's a date for the diary interesting songs and made to a song calling him a narcissist who can't get beyond his own selfish interest but there are a lot of people who would share that opinion of course i mean that's a big i'd say that's a bit personal but i don't know i mean i don't know if that's if that's something inherent to the just to see so i'm not sure if it's protocol that's what i mean to say i just can't really judge that i mean if it's like in the parliament where people go off to each other all the time and i'm not sure i do i don't know how you could courts work it out there if i was lucky to know the. lines throughout the u.k. a narcissist who cannot get beyond his own selfish interest that's how judge michael snow has described the australian wiki leaks founder julian assange as he has peered in courts and the judges all says that the assertion that

a song's had snotty had a fair hearing earlier was. laughable well i guess we can all laugh about that but i mean. from what we've heard on this for from what we've heard from the from from sondra supporters and on this show was there a plan and support to support actions outside because they were an embassy maybe. the cord now because that's that's the place to be where of course there were of course you have to see how large those protests are set to get and i think that what we're getting here so i think what we're getting right now is live pictures from outside the court and. just chanting something like i would make i would go out on the limb and make a guess something in support of julian assange julian assange we can see we can see banners they're saying free julian assange that's one of them black and black and white big big poster showing julian assange just face it does look like the crowd is the crowd is grow. and you know we do have our our correspondent in the boy. she

will be joining us. with the updates including on the size of the crowd and the size of the crowd for joining us. now and so this is something. this shapes out throughout the day i am. international when you own the latest on the arrest of julian assange video agency weapon he was filming outside of the ecuadorian embassy morning this thursday morning as judith was arrested and it captured the moment a disheveled and distressed looking i saw it was carried out by british police officers harris.

life. let's bring in another guest now we're joined by spanish journalist vincent runs the web go on line portal and is considered an internet pioneer welcome to the program. quite an extraordinary day thus. all of us really one can't you know expect to happen next do you think the u.k. will extradite him is just faced quite a tongue lashing from the judge. we need to know better what is happening but of course the line not your parents. shows that most probably the extradition to the

united states it's on the table this is a very venture. like the our colleague. and i watch and this is igor in the studio sort of helping out on a key here have supporting supporting oh yeah which is what i was meaning to ask you as you're a journalist as well and we have with had great glenn greenwald saying that the u.s. accusations u.s. accusations when it comes to julian assigns that the criminalize journalism basically is referring to the fact that in the statement. they there say they're saying a silent killer sort of encouraged chelsea manning to provide as many documents as many secret files as possible to the weeklies for the for the public publication and glenn greenwald has argued that this is what journalists are doing literally all the time with their sources would you agree on that. absolutely this is the case. in the time we are living now with the rights of. all over the world

there is something which is relevant that some people try to not agree seeing it's not illegal is illegal by you to finish and your knowledge is always tried to search the sources when we contact to the sources we try to get the information so much you mention as we can regardless they are regional regardless if this is its origin is legal or it is not legal but all the job is not to crack on the computers or job coms behind after that when that happens then we can decide if this is still relevant a story to publish to be published or not i'm nobody can say that the star is published by weekly expression beyond their crime wars in afghanistan and iraq and . nobody can deny this are relevant stories for the people all over the world

that's changed their view of all people. both wars that have profound implications in their political arena julian assange and wiki leaks did and they can not be detained and thread to with next to be shouldn't be so it's because this is the case we are all on but it's a threat all good people to run the stories they've got be on the news or times like to see that word everyone could be a thread with the same charges that julian assange charge. why do you think the trumpet ministration is apparently so keen to get a hold of the science. well of course we must understand that the release of documents especially during the war period. it was a major blow to the united states army and of the united states and ministration that showed to the people all over the world

a picture of what way are they doing in this country but they want to reveal it to hide it to the scrutiny of the readers all of the world sure there is some sort of vengeance in order to. justify harm the people that harken them before but on the same time under saddam i think this this is kind of a president. the leaks of information are happening more and more technology is helping all over the world to these kind of releases and this is a threat that can draw a line in the sand say ok you can use your to me x. you can publish stories that previously were very difficult to publish hard to publish by people to do so you will face our commitment to put

during jail so many years we can or even worse i think we all the journalists all over the world we might speak from syria. because this is a threat not only to mr science of wiki leaks to the press all over the world yes vincent my next question was basically around that it was centered around that because you've talked about this being a line in the sand edward snowden has called this a dark day for journalism so as a journalist how does this precedent as you've called it how does it make you feel . oh very sad of course i'm very concerned. what. if there is if a day comes when we cannot publish any story with station of the political power words then journalism will disappear and this is not journalism and i must say that in the american tradition whistleblower it's closer in always heroes. because the

more sensible whistleblower is that he or she do this thing to benefit the society it's not just a political affair it's not just going after the government but practice it's to have a better society the society needs to formation and for this society is better it's relevant to know really what is happening so in the tradition in the american tradition whistleblowers as we know always important people that help the country to be better. deep through the consequences of deep throw releasing information to the world war was a better situation for the united states not only the united states was better because for me it's going finally. trump peace with this american tradition it is not the only case but i'm sure to say it's a very important is breaking with their own american where you're from the standing

water whistleblower it's. still in the stands has that become the poster boy for whistle blowing if you like and what happens in his particular case is really going to set a president as you said and it's going to be a watershed moment for you personally as an internet pioneer you've been there from very early on and you've seen as the internet has developed into our internet free time and press freedom has changed over the years do you really seriously concerns for your career and so for everything that you've spent years building. yeah. not not impersonal terms i'm not sure what really happened there we got a lot of them leaving a situation where you got the lonely old school where free them and your son the thread by the spanish government and we have seen more developments related with us science us and us reporting that arrived. at the last two holding the summed up in

mission voldemort supporting president bush simone and this is not something that is. something important or relevant also in the science of questioning by the ecuadorian government i think it's all over the world and there is still different threats coming one is coming from this. one to one big names you know people dead who are all were true hero each year olds will over time the dreams have lives for explaining for rebelling the through going after them one by one this is the case of chelsea manning this is the case now with julian assange but also at the same time a. front i'm asked for by the government and by become but he's also to control and doing to be interest trucking the thing but then we have seen you appear in parliament of recent decision we have seen in all the debate about

the central side of the internet but still today on in the hands of people. some governments want to be part of our state interests tried to do it said that also of course. the leader was a danger no it was a major change in the way people interact with news in the world who we can leagues should release as it were probably the peak. of these moment and there is. the state tried to. do a stop. this thing too happens and to come back to the time where for four of them was much more easy to control the information they do by controlling the journalist even by controlling the media company. vincent partout journalist and founder of the philo web web our online portal thank you for your time we appreciate your insight into the matter thank you. well scotland yard has said his

son has been arrested on a warrant issued by westminster magistrates court in june twenty twelve and following a us extradition request he spent over six years holed up in the ecuadorian embassy well for more on this story we can cross live to our correspondent who's outside the court where julian assange has just been heard poly poly can you bring us the latest on what you're hearing from outside the court please. there's a sort of a drip drip of information coming in from inside the court we've heard that a pretty scathing judge here found julian assange guilty of skipping bail back in june twenty twelve that was when he was wanted for questioning in sweden and instead he fled and source asylum in the ecuadorian embassy now he is now expected to be sentenced via video on the second of may now we are awaiting the

imminent exit from the courtroom of julian assange the legal team should be giving us a bit more of a shit about what's going to be happening next of course there is now also we know the u.s. justice department that has charged julian assange on charges of a computer hacking conspiracy and really throughout the seven years that julian assange spent inside the ecuadorian embassy but he personally and his legal team said repeatedly that the thing they feared most was this potential extradition to the u.s. they thought that something's being worked out in the just in the u.s. justice department for today and a sergeant in sort of to his leaping up diplomatic very sensitive diplomatic cables and as an editor of wiki leaks now it looks like the u.k. the u.s. and ecuador have now lexically played that card against julian assange. at

ten fifty this morning all simply remains to be from the story never seen the story of both parties had invited the metropolitan police inside to rest him it looked like a pre-planned operation and the president of ecuador had this to say about it take a listen. on announce that the discourteous and aggressive behavior of mr julian are shown to give the hostile and freshening declarations of his annoyed organization. and especially the transgression of international treaties to have led the situation to a point where the astronomy of mr assad regime is unsustainable are no longer viable but if you want to comment that i have given a change of government sorry i'll just quote one of julian assange just noirs so i just bought one of julian assange just noise about coming out of the program i will be talking to him shortly let me just continue on with that what i was telling you

led in my read and his he said that it had been a silver in decision to withdraw asylum to julian assange to offer he repeated repeatedly violated international conventions and daily life protocols now i think that comment really is very illustrative of the two different directions in which to dennis on his relationship with his host the ecuadorian authorities soured over the course of the cost of the eighteen months ever since lenin miranda came to power in ecuador and took a much tougher stance against the wiki set itself he julian saunders accused of meddling in the international affairs of other countries through his work as the editor of wiki leaks in terms of online activities but also there was this domestic phone live he was given a list of conditions that he had to adhered to while inside and staying in the embassy he was told he needs to pay for same food in the one dream he did needed to clean up after his own act the embassy caught. we all know that was then taken away

from him he needed to clean up his own ball three sons then went on to say to soothe his own places he said that they were infringing his human rights and he's returned to political asylum now in the u.k. authorities welcome julian assange arrest take a listen to what foreign secretary and the prime minister had to say about sam. i am sure that the whole house will welcome the news this morning that the metropolitan police have arrested judy in a song. mr speaker this goes to show that in the united kingdom no one is above the law. but what we've shown today is that no one is above the law julian assange is no hero he's hidden from the truth for years and years but also a very courageous decision by president arroyo in ecuador to resolve the situation

by joining us on to as i said spent seven years inside the dorian embassy it's a tiny tiny apartment it doesn't have any outside space and it was really it's a way to silence. one side being wanted for questioning in so we did not the statute of limitations on those cases has now run out it's expired so that sweden is no longer at the moment an issue but taking a look back at just how long and protracted this we keep saga has become.

parties polly well i see how spoken to the former president all that could already . granted us on just find them he thinks the current ketone leadership is out for avenge against the wiki leaks leak editor. you know maybe. i think marino deserves the title of the greatest traitor of history there or you could compete with. the state of ecuador in accordance with international law and guided by its own national pride was simply a ploy to protect the person to whom it is granted asylum and instead they simply gave him arbitron and allowed the british police to enter our embassy just imagine for a moment if it was the ecuadorian police entering the us embassy and it was a decision by him or a no you really want revenge for having been accused of corruption because wiki leaks released documents proving it not to mention other evidence like

correspondence bills etc now online so marina is taking revenge on a sandwich and i think the consequences will be even harder because although i don't want to look ahead the possibility that the u.k. will not extradite julian assange to the united states is very unlikely that well joining me now in the studio is igor start off to discuss the implications of the sons is a rest ego what do you make of the last few hours well i go for the last few minutes really and because we've had another somewhat the well i'd say minor development but which could prove quite significant because a swedish lawyer representing an alleged rape victim said that she would like to push to have prosecutors reopen the investigation that implicates the songes there now why what this whole thing is about and why this is important basically event initially a son was wanted in sweden on the allegation of a sex in a rape case of the sex assault case but that's why that's why the u.k.

wanted a science that's why the u.k. wanted to get their hands on a stand and this is where this is basically why his son is now being charged and has been he has now been found guilty in failing to surrender to the u.k. police because back then they wanted him in connection with a sex assault came. in sweden in twenty seventeen sweden closed the case closed that case but not because they believed the son she was innocent but because they just they saw no point in keeping the case open you know spending resources on it because the science was holed up in the in the embassy and later the but the chief prosecutor the chief prosecutor the leading prosecutor in sweden said that she would reopen the case if a songe appears in sweden by twenty two and twenty twenty sorry now it's twenty

nineteen so they're kind of they're clutching to their clutching at straws here but i mean the timing is remarkable i should say i mean in twenty nineteen the releases sanj the ecuador allows the u.k. to seize a stanch to carry him out of the embassy allows them to prosecute and to charge him to you know to deliver a guilty verdict the so it leaves him basically now he could either go to sweden to face sex allegation charges there if this push by the victim is granted by the prosecutor's office of the prosecutors decide to open the case there's nothing stopping them because back in twenty seventeen they made it absolutely clear that they believe that probable cause is present in that case you just again they didn't see any point in spending resources on keeping that case going so it's either he could go to sweden and has as his ordeal you know extended by one extra leg and be you know basically dragged in and out of court there or he could go straight to the

united states because the u.k. has an extradition request from the united states but even if he goes to sweden sweden the united states they do have the same extradition program going on as the u.s. and the u.k. so sweden could become a stopover for a science i mean there are very few people who believe that the london or stockholm would become. the fight will become the final destination for us and everybody's thinking the united states and so now we're getting to the united states why eventually the united states wants a son there they've few would like i'd say like half an hour ago so they've revealed the details as to what they are accusing what they will be charging a son with and that is conspiring with chelsea manning another whistleblower with basically orchestrating the biggest secret military leak in the u.s. history the biggest leak of secret u.s. military documents this is about the documents of the u.s.

involvement in the afghanistan war and in the war in iraq so they're saying they're saying that basically a son and chelsea manning they stayed in touch and that a son encouraged chelsea to provide as many to give them as many documents as possible for we can leaks to release now let's make a quick let's make a quick stop here because we prepared a clip for you as to what those leaks were about have a look.