the expected charges for espionage this is truly a dark day for journalists and journals. division opens up in the u.s. this time over songs with some rights groups and even a twenty twenty presidential candidates offering support of those that were demanding the extradition and trial of the. whistleblower. back to united states because of hope some change the message that we're getting that the american people are getting by what's happened here today is you know be quiet the line otherwise there will be consequences proves to saudi arabia despite its having a place that's according to german media reports. on the broad. support for transparent elections with international observers asking for

a transition period and a new constitution as well. right now of the. exam and the implications. hello and welcome to cross talk for all things considered i'm peter lavelle that is finally happening julian assange was arrested within the ecuadorian embassy in london is widely expected he will be extradited to the united states to stand trial expected charges are espionage this is truly a dark day for journalists and journalists.

cross talking julian assange i'm joined by my guest joe laurie in washington he's the editor in chief of consortium news dot com and author of how i lost my hillary clinton with the forward by julian assange also in washington we have brain mcgovern is a former cia analyst and co-founder of veteran intelligence professionals for sanity and in new york we cross the sara flounders she is co-director of international action center as well as author and an anti-war activists or across talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it joe let me go to you first because you're very familiar with julian joining us on the road the forward to your book what are your feelings right now because you know from my perspective in in the business of journalism this is one of the darkest days of journalism in my lifetime and i'm going to remember this state for the rest of my life no matter what happens that's how passionate i feel about this this is a crushing move against a profession that it's already been crushed so much over the last few years go

ahead joe i think it's a dark day not just for journalism but for everyone else for the entire world really for all the populations of the of all countries that depend on a vibrant media a critical media that can bring them information about what their governments are really up to that will challenge them and that's of course where we stayed they provided the information that the government did not want the public to know particular about crimes and corruption and this is why they got him arrested today all the other stuff about bell skipping in and previously about the sexual allegations it's read all of that was the lead up to get him to go to this courtroom in alexandria virginia so he could stand trial for exposing the secrets of governments it was indeed a very stark and nightmarish image of seeing you know truly and taken out of the front door of the embassy with a ruptly camera there this is what we call here in the u.s. a perp walk they wanted us to see him being pulled out and the fact is that the population has been dispersed misinformed disinformed distract. did about the

significance of this issue now it's the press that has destroyed itself in many ways in this story because they have turned on this man that they once profited from want to serve their partisan interests when he exposed crimes of the bush administration when he exposed corruption with hillary clinton they turned on him in a dime they're still pushing this rubbish story that he helped trump get into the white house that he's somehow a russian stooge and a kremlin agent all this nonsense even though collusion story has collapsed so it's the press that has failed the public here and they have already the corporate media i'm talking about they have already destroyed themselves in many ways they had to have to really find this man and be cheering today you know his arrest is quite disturbing you know sara in new york. i have to wonder if the guardian the new york times the washington post c.n.n. a missing d.c. are they going to be held account of they going to face espionage charges because they disseminated so much of what we hear because we keep leaks at the end of the

day is a publisher but unlike other publishers it was never proven to be peddling fake news go ahead sir. well they they reported on it and exposed some of those crimes because it was already out to the whole world and really what was exposed are the dark crimes that the u.s. has committed in its wars two hundred thousand cables video footage images and that should be the response of anyone who is challenging right now this this brutal really this arrest of a songe and that is let's go back and bring a revive bring forward again what it was that wiki leaks exposed what was in those cables let's show again those videos where civilians were helicopter gunships let's show again the torture let's show again guantanamo if they're going to pull

juliana songe out of the. embassy absolutely an outrageous crime then let's show again all of their crimes i think that can be the only response the only legitimate response is to show that there is no freedom of press now major corporate media reported that at the time and then they sort of let it go to sleep well this is revived it again and i think we have a responsibility to talk about what wiki leaks contributed to this and what chelsea manning all of those documents and she has really suffered for this and is now in prison again there should really be a campaign for her immediate release this is after a pardon it shows how than dicked of they are and how they want to use intimidation and i think we have to refuse to be intimidated and it is a real role for the media to challenge this again and bring forward once again

remind people what joy in a songes contribution is and he made a big contribution to truth to freedom of the media to for. in the press ok sarah says we need a campaign but that campaign isn't going to come from the media because their audience because the media failed the legacy media failed in its mission to inform the people of to of of hard truths and showing how government works and doesn't work here so what can we expect to happen next once she is on american soil. well bottom line is it's only us never has been any other we are the press we are the media the fourth estate is dead it used to speak of the fourth estate as be more of a now instead what it i mean by that. most people know that annenberg the problem and in british basement in the late eighteenth century coined the phrase he said you know we have three states here in parliament two and two in commons one and

lords and but there's one estate that's far more important there are all the others it's the fourth estate it's you gentlemen up there in the press gallery because it's you who keep us honest with you government run amuck now fast forward yes for from the late eighteenth century you know see what's what's become of the afford to say no are no more regard to the magna carta or the ability rights in the constitution there is no press freedom and so it's up to the alternative me if the mission or this is it go down lately now i just. that when we gave julian assange and wiki leaks the sam adams award for charity it was actually over two thousand and ten and after his release the f.b.i. and the iraq or law it's what did they show they show what crimes by the united

states military director orszag in the white house what was the reaction very little reaction to that that was pretty much trash but when people started sick and old people be hurt by these disclosures the secretary of defense last. said at that site or said reports that u.s. troops or or anyone else has been harmed by this are quote significantly well or are off period. so there is no there is no counter or. you know even no counter argument such a good point you know joe you know what we have now is that we saw we saw this show of force of dragging julia songe out of the ecuadorian embassy but he told me something that they don't want me to think it shows me that these the national security state is actually quite weak and timid in its ability to communicate its

position of of why its lee illegitimately has power because it shows that certainly the powers that be show themselves to be weaker in weaker because they're run able to be able to engage in discussion and in debate and maybe argument but they didn't i the other side they are only right and people must follow because look at they did to julian assange we can do it to you that's the mission they're sending but that's somebody that's that's power that it at its weakest point because it only it relies on coercion not argument go ahead joe. absolutely that's authoritarianism right there what we saw coming only sora julian saw it dragged out of that embassy and the public being shut out because the corporate media again does not inform and takes the wrong side they take the side of the state not the side of the people and the governed they're supposed to serve not the governors in fact they're weak as well on their argument in this case because the indictment was finally sealed just about an hour or two after assad was pulled out of the embassy this indictment that

the government had denied was in existence for ten years sorry for about nine years from two thousand and ten and what they are charging him with is very important and i think it's a weak case which is why chelsea manning is in jail because they are not going to charge him under section three of the espionage act which is mere possession and dissemination of classified information that's on the books they could have done that but that would be a threat to all of the press because every major media publishes classified information so they're going for the. conspiracy to commit espionage charge which means they are claiming he helped chelsea manning to break a password code to get the documents so that she could then transfer them to him as his source and that we can exclude publish and it rests on a conversation online that manning had with a person under a different handle that the government is organ was julian assange but it may be hard for them to prove that she was actually discussing how to break this password

to get in to get those documents now all investigative journalist work with their sources to cajole them to help them to help them get the information and go back all the time to your sources and do what you can to help them get that in this case the government's going to try the u.s. government try to build a case that a songe helped steal the documents not publishing the documents they didn't go down that route as they knew was what the obama administration called the new york times problem they couldn't have the times and the other papers be libel for the same kind of prosecution so that's what this case is going to rest on oh man it was brought in to a grand jury to testify on that very issue and she refused so they don't have a strong case maybe it could say show us that they needed her back again to stay some more because they don't have enough and her a lawyers have a very interesting strategy they're saying if there's an indictment already and now we know that there is now that this grand jury testimony could be used in trial if there's already an indictment then you cannot have a grand jury testimony when which there's no feeling that she should have gone in

there because they want to use this testimony later on in trial and they can't do that they are only using on joe i guess which was already done i got to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and out about short break we'll continue our discussion on julian assange stay with arkie. it's seemed wrong. but old rules just don't hold. any old belief just to shape out just to become educated and engaged with equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground.

i mean this but i think. this if. you did a show the first one to the last would go forward for me. which is. actually just what i do want to. see if it was national guard. patrol if i thought. that but if you look at the area. it's a lot closer to close. their capital support with one of these critics one of the ways of getting you to leave because. she's she's going to live to be smeared. all over the. post someone. doesn't. like you the late eighty's.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing julian assange. ok let's go back to sarah in new york a number of legal experts explained to me that it's quite possible that the impending trial of julian assange could be all it could be all behind closed doors could be all secret and that we wouldn't really never know the workings of such a trial and even to the point where the state would present national evidence that would be considered of national security importance where julian assigns and his or her lawyer would never be able to see it because of it see the secret to value and

then it would up. essential would be up to a judge to render a decision which we would never really know because it's national security you can't explain what evidence was being used to mean that sounds orwellian i mean truly so if it were to work out go ahead sir well all of this is are well again all of this is based on support keeping it all secret that is the real crime that joyous songe committed refusing to allow the crimes to be held secret anymore and everyone who in any way wants to defend julian a songe or admires his courage i think it's the obligation now to bring up again because it's gone quiet after seven years bring up again what it was that wiki leaks exposed to bring it forward again what chelsea manning showed in those videos show those videos again show the torture again show the shooting of journalists

and iraq again this is how we can counter it because if we accept the secrecy that's what they want to bring back complete secrecy control of the media and they're demanding that the corporate media who is already totally housebroken who's already defending in every way an empire that is declining that syndic a that can no longer has credibility the corporate media is very much in the u.s. is absolutely part of that secrecy a little bit came forward because it was known around the world and there's lots there's hundreds of thousands of sites that are alternative media that can bring this forward and that's where we should look we should not look to media that already plays a role of conspiracy in an empire that is based on crime and that is based on secrecy so i think we have to refuse to accept the secrecy and bring forward what

we. we already know and support a songe and certainly support chelsea manning who is in prison right now under terrible conditions after a pardon because she is standing up to a grand jury which is a very heroic position and again that's a secret proceeding that they're trying to put chelsea manning through so it's want more and more secrecy and we need to challenge the secrecy by exposing what they want to keep a lid on and the lid is coming off in a hundred ways around the world i think it's an obligation of everyone to do more to pry that lid off if we'll have an award but decide but this case is melissa crimes but this case is really about intimidating one particular individual in a concept it is a reality into not only freedom of speech here but radio i mean there's the powers that be are and aren't refused to be intimidated exactly but i think other people will be in box that's my very point ray i mean this is really the ultimate chilling

ok let me go to ray is the ultimate chilling effect and it was done in broad daylight they didn't hide it they're actually quite proud of marching into a sovereign territory of another country which of i suppose accord or relinquish that shame on them. and the breaking of international law and an asylum agreement there's no asylum as a silent agreement in the world that could ever be agreed to wonder law that limits one speech ok not in the european union and not in the united states for sure it to mutation rate that's what it's all about go ahead. well as for a fear it's a brutish treatment of anyone who will stand up to the are steadily a journalist too for reuters. ten other people in place cite it shows the brutalization of the pilots the u.s. pilots that have been taught to be so pro will know what most people don't know is

said david finkel big washington post i was with that unit he looked at tape he washed it any wrote a book called the good soldiers about that specific unit that did this kind of brutality during the surge in iraq that says that pointed out in body few years the near the washington post they're fully cognizant and no one would have known about it were not for chelsea manning giving that tape to julian assange is now this makes the point why is the united states government so upset well it's because we gave leaks has this unique capability to get. leaks. what was the most damaging leak it was all the same virtually the c.i. a will all three more bush bill bailey from the analysts say laura and i both think. carol sure how breadcrumbs showing she

and russian involvement in the d.n.c. even knows how they got there you know we think you know through this but we think it was generated in the cia is this very sophisticated seven hundred million code. lol seven gratian those right so that's that's really damaging to the cia that's the book's struction research where they're actually. you know you know cho i mean i'm glad that ray brought up. meaning because you know i mean there's so much intelligence. ability out there i mean with veeps is a very good example here it's never to i mean i don't even think the motor investigation even tapped into it i think one program on fox news took a mild interest but that was only to protect trump not to go after the truth ok so explain to our viewers i know your answer because i've seen you answer before but

explain for my viewers here why does the mainstream media worship the intelligence community so much yeah there's a big reason and a little reason the big reason is that they are giving legitimacy to an establishment that is losing legitimacy as you pointed out earlier peter that they are weak and the corporate media props them up there are an essential ingredient and that the key people believing that these are legitimate the rulers and the second little reason his career as a reporter is want to be close to power they live vicariously through these powerful people they want to be part of the elite they don't understand their role is to be amongst the people to challenge to that. to criticize the powerful so that that's exactly what doing a sonnet did so they're trying to abolish that and have full control over information and here comes the sun publishing documents that they themselves hang themselves with because it's their own words it's their own video that was in that

pilots. in the pilot in the helicopter gunship so they got to stop that because they want the total control that they're losing and songe you know the corporate media reporters they continually say he's not a journalist that's a key thing here he's something else well he's publishing documents but he's written three or four books he's writes articles he's a great. analyst this man just isn't just some kind of clerk accepting the documents and putting them out there he's understand what they mean and he tries to explain what they mean and they cannot tolerate this they need these lackey reporters to prop up their legitimacy that is weakened by the truth and this case by a songe this is the issue peter you know it's really interesting joe it's. for power to criticize julian is by not calling him a journalist i mean how does that one of the great ironies of the time ok because they're just an auger first for power and they're paid a lot of money to do it and they seem to do it without any moral compass whatsoever

ok sarah i mean at the end of the day this is really about. narrowing freedom of speech because you cannot you know it's not that the problem isn't getting crimes that that's that's the crime here not what they do it's how people like myself julian assange and other people in alternative media still believe that you have to . challenge power and challenge power with arguments ok go ahead sir. well the media today the big corporate media is absolutely losing its legitimacy in terms and we should really take confidence in our own ability because human consciousness is more powerful in terms of historic a big change than repression and even the technology the ability of technology to try to enforce repression it breaks through in unexpected ways and we have to

really think how we help that information which we already have break through again and again and again we have to say this media has no legitimacy its whole role is to simply report on what is a criminal enterprise in the world today that's the role that the us empire that wall street plays it's trying to enforce a straitjacket of only wealth counts only power counts and people all over the world are challenging that and let's bring forward a lot of that material just to show to expose how old they are the crimes that they're willing to commit don't let them put it back in the box don't let them keep it secret if there's going to be any kind of a trial and they want to keep it secret. in in the us if they want to attempt that method then we've got to in every way bring it forth and show what's not being

showcased immediately i mean given the media has already been here for a little get in a courtroom let me give let me give letting it all down let me give ray the last word thirty seconds ray i'm know you're a man of paper and i know you believe that the truth will prevail convince me that that's going to happen. well you know you have to be patient. stone said. you've got to be prepared to lose going to lose and lose and lose and then one fine day someone who thinks about the truth the way you do when you have to be patient and you have to. go in knowing that you're going to lose. the important point here reason before is that a sign students solicit this information from from bradley or joseph manny. and that he offered it to the new york times offered it to the washington post and they didn't want it so you know where would you get what was she bradley manning

going to do what he did was the next best thing it was way too little was and it was weekly looks all right but i'm sorry we brought out of time many thanks to my guests in new york and washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. in x. time and remember. us veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either there are already several generations of them so i just

got this memo from the star great advances officer says we're going to attack and destroy the government and seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with their money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed for a war. surely we can risk some discomfort for an easy miss for peace. and justice more than a little. mention that it's a long. way to the polluted. polisher doesn't is that a. product of a little. bit like it's a more efficient use for there. was

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even height weight chest measurements are important because model has to be able to fit into a space suit and of course the ship four hundred twenty are playgrounds was shortlisted from the campaign but only aid.