i want to distract from this you just made the same accusation to the so the person that is making accusation against you it's sort of it's akin to the kindergarten rhetoric the founder of wiki leaks julian songe there speaking to going underground from the ecuadorian embassy before we go to daddy st chambers in london to speak to julian's lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c. about the legal and human rights implications of the case i'm joined now from sydney in australia by legendary journalist and filmmaker john pilger john welcome to going underground you've said the arrest of julian assange by british authorities is a warning to all journalists explain. it's a warning from history. it's a stark warning. anybody watching that shocking image of julian being forced out of the embassy by half a dozen police and pushed into a van will know that if that can happen to somebody for using

journalism to let us know the truth that can happen to anybody and it julian. is in but as he's in prison now but if he's on the way to an american prison well the principle is unaltered on the way to an american prison could be a host of other editors if they push their luck catherine vyner of the guardian the editor of the new york times and i don't say that lightly the lead lawyer of the new york times has said it if julian and wiki leaks can be prosecuted so can the editors of those newspapers that carried their work this is on this this is the north assault on journalism but you know it more than that it's an assault on citizenship because it can happen to anybody right across the world it is saying that international law doesn't apply julian was an

accredited. beneficiary of the whole notion of of of asylum the united nations working party on arbitrary detention made that absolutely clear and it was clear in couple months to which britain is a signatory now if that can be torn up if a regime as mired in in mercan corruption as the lenin merino regime an ecuadorian. is today can call in the police in any country to a restaurant asylum seekers then think of all the historical examples we don't have to think about them so much i reported from the soviet union at the height of the cold war in the nineteen seventies and i watched the k.g.b.

and their associates do something similar to dissidents intimidate them march them out of their of their flats intimidate their families that was for political reasons what has happened to julian has happened on a political whim the idea that it's about biola infringement is ridiculous we both know. it's about getting him across to a supermax in the united states it opens up a whole chapter of really diminishing the very principles that came out of the second world war upon which the universal declaration is based it shows how fragile lay our duties unless a political beings in london in this government really understand that do they understand what they're setting in train i don't think so you say it's

a warning to journalists journalist all around the world that alone here in britain sky news channel four news because of c.n.n. in the united states seem much more keen to emphasise that this is nothing about these big values your jogging about it's more about messiness in there the embassy now of course under the control of lenin merino in quito and and rape accusations of course they do because journalism journalism in recent years has changed not radically it was always the so-called mainstream was always an extension of the state of the state ideology our freedom of debate has diminished. that how the powerful are no longer a challenge that chav challenged on a trivial level but how that next they're not challenge to about the greatest

tonight a tarion disaster in the world today and that is in yemen for which the british government is largely responsible and way britain's are helping to direct this this atrocity helping with bomb aiming for saudi aircraft and logistics and strategies and so on when is this when has this been made a a burning issue of debate we've handed the whole world of of the abandonment of basic democracy which is based on dissent on challenging on holding power to account on revelation on the embarrassment of power. not trivial embarrassment the embarrassment of the odd celebrity but real embarrassment and wiki leaks provided that

service that public service of journalism and it did it without fear or favor you know they publish something like eight hundred thousand documents on russia documents from the kremlin documents that we used in in in court cases in in russia they published the same about china. but the united states and britain particularly the united states has arouse the ira because. what we're in the midst of at the moment is the world's great superpower struggling to maintain its dominance its information dominance its technological dominance its cultural grauman's and wiki leaks has presented an extraordinary hurdle to this julian asylum's they hadn't has become enemy number one but he should be and i don't say this lightly he should be

hero number one hero number one because if we lose the assan jurors and there are many of them. a handful maybe there's certainly no one like him if we do lose the wiki leaks then we do lose a few holes trotter of freedom we stop questioning you said he is a hero the foreign secretary jeremy hunt he has said he is no here or the prime minister tourism a started in the house of commons by saying the house should welcome his arrest alan duncan the foreign minister said it's total rubbish to raise the un ruling on arbitrary detention and the judge because quite apart from the media that we talk about quite often the judge district court judge here michael snow in westminster magistrates' court characterized as sons as having the behavior of a narcissist who can't get beyond his own selfish interest well that's just abuse

that's not a judge that's an abuse or another judge would recognise that as an abuser the rest frankly you name joe jeremy hunt the man responsible for. so much destruction of the national health service when he was secretary of state for health i mean frankly i don't think these are credible people i think in the world of politics we're a very diminished state. i'm trying to be polite about this but. i mean commenting on what hans says all the rest of them it used to be like commenting on what boris johnson says there's the problem there's another problem of course where is the opposition diane abbott made a spirited effort to describe julian a son has dilemma's in these help and so on but what did the leader what to jeremy

corbin say he said that the government should oppose his extradition i mean frankly it's best that jeremy coleman doesn't say anything rather than tepid remarks like that if there was an opposition leader who could stand up to the maze the hunts and the rest then perhaps we'd have some sense of real truth in debate to simply say the government should oppose the extradition is not enough it should be spelt out in in parliament what this this this extradition might mean. it that threatens julian's life that he could end up spending the rest of his life in the kind of conditions. that the u.n. reporter on torture has already described he's already said that

that's what he faces that's what we need to hear from the political opposition in britain ok well let's go to one of the most important wiki leaks revelations according to julian this sanjeev obviously covered so many decades of war by great powers he said the u.s. special forces unconventional warfare manual about sabotage subversion intelligence overthrowing foreign governments specifically naming the i.m.f. and the world bank in o.e.c.d. as players in these strategies were unconventional warfare he said that that was one of the most important leaks was it to you yes i think it was one of the most important leagues because it it demonstrates the very nature of how the united states fights its colonial wars there are so many leaks that are related to telling us about the true nature of war of course what really got julian into trouble and chelsea manning of course was the video of collateral murder

and that expressed most graphically what i would describe as the whole homicidal nature. of american colonial wars and especially in iraq the three hundred sixty degree view of just kill them all and anybody watching that video. really has to read very little else of the wiki leaks revelations about the nature of american wars because there it is there is a kind of consensual belief i'm trying to think of a polite term for brainwashing frankly that. we don't do these kind of things we are perpetually but nine on our side on the americans a part of that these things simply do not happen they only they only happen on their side they only they've done by totalitarian states.

they're done by rogue states when in fact clearly the biggest rogue state of all is the united states. someone that ignores international law that has threatened the prosecutor of the international criminal court has has told us that she can't have a visa to visit her and i couldn't asians in new york john pilger i'll stop you that more from john bill just after this break can we go to a world famous douchy street chain to speak to its founder julian assange just lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c. that's all coming up after this break.

this drug where her cocaine is where for work for the under fifty it's a good job everybody used. cocaine you can smoke it this is worth this do you birdie. twenty. score a kid to this is a bro a fifteen dollar bill and people smoke this one go figure circle. you can find these drugs in any city in the united states that you want and long as you want to get it about to. make money. and that's one of the every day. there are millions of people in america and around the world who are better educated than ray dahlia but in order to succeed on wall street you need to have a complete lack of empathy this has been driven in study after study after study re

dahlia has no consideration about the effect he's having our society and the rock the ruination of the lives that is contributing to my being a leak on the system with is hedge fund that's a lack of empathy and played there that takes a certain kind of myopia and stupidity to work yourself into that state. u.s. veterans who come back from war often to lose seem stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from a certain branches officer says we're going to attack and destroy the government in seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with them money others with their lives if we were willing to. go into harm's way and willing to risk being killed for

a war. surely we can risk some discomfort for you see this for. welcome back i'm still here with legendary journalist and filmmaker john pilger as of the timing of this interview there's been no real solidarity shown by bernie sanders unlike fellow presidential candidate for the democrats would but here we've been told that in the united states clinton e-mail releases why we keep leaks were embarrassing rather than any mention say of money from the clinton foundation from nations associated with is the missed terrorism what's the difference here embarrassing versus. corruption and corruption against arguably the interests of

the united states i think but shows the almost what is the it's a it's a kind of primal need to protect these people but clinton e-mails but protest miles what they showed was but clinton hillary clinton was. bedfellow of those who backed joe hart as some in the middle east. the cine knew that the backers of jihad isn't. in in in in the middle east principally saudi arabia. she knew what they were doing. so she knew about the source of jihadism when i asked was at its height and she was then secretary

of state and she'll run eyes the biggest arms deal in history in selling arms american arms to saudi arabia. but it made her a de facto ally of jihad ism in the middle east what that has to do with embarrassment i don't know if anyone's barassi i would have thought she is or ought to be and her superiors and her underlings in washington it's a ridiculous way of characterizing it let's get involved seven the largest cia leak in history via wiki leaks important about the revelations of malware in oil our mobile phones and making hacks appear as if they're from china or in russia edward snowden has explained all this your phone can spy on us it really infuriated.

the cia and that's very understandable because it told us what they're up to it told us the the intensity and sophistication of their surveillance and so much of this and i mentioned earlier about almost everything has to do with america. trying to reclaim its dominance particularly in relation to china the whole campaign against wild way. is over five g. technology and wild way has claimed with some justification that. their device is the only ones without a back door but the n.s.a. cannot enter another words you can have a device from wild way that isn't contaminated by the n.s.a.

and all the other agencies in the united states. and you could also have five jury the chinese development in technology is soaring ahead that has so much to do with all of this what about the fact that as explicitly emphasize one cable from embassador william roebuck to destabilize syria that big news story that's all but disappeared from all of front pages in recent wake weeks that that cable supposedly about instigating a war as far back as twenty of six the media as i've said is an extension of governments and their vested interests and the british government the u.s. government. set out to overthrow the government in syria they've failed so far they've failed for those who wanted to know the truth there was in the wiki leaks cable the the destabilisation of of syria but look you can go back i've seen

m i six cables back in the fifty's that have been declassified but the talk about. the same thing about how they can destabilize syria. it was then assad's father syria was a important piece in the in the whole middle east chess game for western powers western oil powers that's been going on for a very long time job villager thank you now to the world famous daddy street chambers in london just speak to julian as a lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c. . jeffrey the foreign secretary jeremy hunt said songes no hero no one is above the law he said he's hidden from the truth for years and years he will have faced british justice the home secretary said to germany ahead of the release of further or further arrest of jury has said he's right be facing justice in the

u.k. where he's not facing justice in the u.k. other than for breach of bail which is a very minor offense usually dealt with by a fine or a few weeks in prison these politicians so he may be stir up the judges to give him a couple of months but the justice that he's facing in is justice or injustice in america which wants him and has charges riddy for up to forty five years imprisonment and that's a long time so not very hard to plan all of that which would prevent an extra dollar or death penalty as a red herring which the ecuadorian government is used to justify the outrageous behavior it's cruel and really a breach of faith in handing over forcibly its own asylum

seekers they've given asylum to you but seven years to the police that's something that is unprecedented in the law of asylum and will make ecuador detested country in among those who believe that asylum law should be properly conducted but. the claim that oh the british government has told us they will not extradite or short us that they will not extradite to a country with the death penalty is simply nonsense as the british government faces a law that doesn't allow it to extradite anyone but if u.s. authorities said that their ways and the developmental team well it's not one of the charges he's charged with conspiracy with child c. manning now the fact that he is means that he's charged with

a green with troops he manning to make public details of sometimes crimes against humanity committed by american troops remember the man's aerial manslaughter when they shot those reuters journalists and a couple of children from from the helicopter that was put in that sondra made available and is now are going to be the americans have their way is going to be a result in him not only spending years fighting the case but being sent to jail and to britain acts just like a colony obviously under british law you can't be arrested for a public interest release no i reread the british authorities to work i would know that i would help the british judges have enough belief in freedom of information to actually throw out this extradition request but what does this

mean for the guardian the new york times and displayed a lot of rusbridger of the guardian schultz well yeah really they've all they all the arrests of interior it was an action where they could be but of course politically they were being the idea of making a sondre scapegoat is that he's not a particularly likable. person who doesn't have the sort of establishment credentials of the new york times or the guardian his conviction and sentence just like josie manning will be a terror to other publishers in europe everywhere to criticize and reveal information of misbehavior by american troops what if even macaskill of the guardian reveals the chelsea manning was in close contact with the guardian and so on is it up to those newspapers in

a sense to defend the songes all or because obviously julian's others never stated that tells you manning was the whistleblower they have their letter drop kind of the. snare he's being accepted the journalistic principle of protecting his source that something the journalist pertained to follow and sometimes their proprietors don't because this is a monumental attack by this rotten american administration but other politicization of justice in this country than you alluded to ministers i mean you have long been talking about the u.n. human rights committees education that he was under three to ten year the british government alan duncan the minister of state for europe and the americas that's total rubbish where our gov can doesn't know a thing about the law and his comments of course are hostile to us are. all this government's ministers and you

can you expect him to get a fair trial when they're bad mouthing him i think you can and i think bush judges i have i have faith in them but whether i have faith in the u.s. supreme court is another matter because by the time this case comes before them and we're talking maybe five years. how many trump appointees will be on that court if you can do these extra land would you say. about if. you did faces in prison long term of imprisonment you would of course he would claim because the trump argument is this that the first amendment which protects this famously only applies to american death and doesn't apply to any foreign journalists even those working for american papers in fact driven goodale

who was the hero of the pentagon papers case he was the lawyer for the new york times he came out of retirement the other day and he said the case however much you dislike. his case is the most important for media freedom since the pentagon papers case the a.c.l.u. backs that kind of thing you founded this chambers doubt history chambers and have always talked about free speech for years and it is that one of your colleagues as well clooney i think works here has been appointed by the foreign office a special envoy on media for you can you help swing it can you and how does. that matter that. be left to the foreign office but as a chambers we do a lot of free speech with geoffrey robertson thank you. there

are millions of people in america and around the world who are better educated than ray dahlia but in order to succeed on wall street. complete lack of empathy this is evident study after study after study dahlia has no consideration about the effect of society and the ruination of the law. exhibiting by being able to eke out a system with as hedge fund bets a lack of empathy and played there that takes a certain kind of myopia and stupidity to work yourself into that state. when you should look into modes if you do. you have to show the first one to the finish produce conformity with hundreds. that's awesome and this would do him good because. you feel if it was national guard coming off not. really

a cut throat and up but if you talk a little. it's a look it was a supreme triple seems. to me a. little support school board of these critics one of your least most of whom you'd be new to lose because the. machine into my previous mirror. told us if you go into business. in a phone with someone to be renewed because we've got a close call if you go to a pretty. good hall of solutions do you sometimes need. to put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or some want to. have to go on to be pros this is what before three in the morning can't be good

good. i'm interested always in the waters of my college. course. our main stories on our team with putin a sanch charged the u.s. with a conspiracy to hack government computers washington is now again raising the issue with his alleged links to russia also to come over seventy people reportedly killed in libya in a week because the international community remains split over how to deal with the escalating conflict in the country and the german justice minister is rounded on after giving an interview to r.t. or each in which she mentions close ties between the in a moscow. and we maintain close ties with russia russia was and always will be our partner.