and willing to risk being killed for a war. surely we can risk some discomfort for an easy. son charged with us with conspiracy to hack government computers the issue of his alleged links to russia is once again being raised in washington. french police used tear gas against yellow vests protesters in the twenty second consecutive weekend of demonstrations against the government. and the german justice minister was roundly criticised after giving an interview to tease german since the shuttle which mentions close ties with. the moscow. we maintain close ties with russia russia was on always will be our partner. be sure to check out our social media step to date and events around the world you can

also read those stories on our website www dot com next though it's going on the ground in the u.k. sputnik is coming your way. you're watching a going underground special in the week the british authorities after nearly seven years of arbitrary detention captured the founder of wiki leaks coming up with a show when one publication publishes a dynamite story or publications don't have a story and so they try and undermine the story in some way they have to write some things off. and then unfortunately a lot. of those people who are too close to the very. powers that they should be

trying to hold to account but if we go back and look at what the us military robert gates and general moment said about our publications of creating hypotheticals that maybe they would cause harm. our publications documented their involvement in a case by case level in the deaths of more than twenty thousand people in afghanistan and more than one hundred eight thousand people in iraq those are the stakes that we were talking about. not only the dissolution of two societies but the deaths of over one hundred thousand people and so when you want to distract from this you just made the same accusation to the so the person that is making accusation against you it's sort of is akin to the kindergarten rhetoric the founder of wiki leaks julian sands there speaking to going underground from the ecuadorian embassy before we go to daddy street chambers in london to speak to julian's lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c.

about the legal and human rights implications of the case i'm joined now from sydney in australia by legendary journalist and filmmaker john pilger john welcome to going on the ground you've said the arrest of julian assange by british authorities is a warning to all journalists explain. it's a warning from history. it's a stark warning. anybody watching that shocking image of julianne being forced out of the embassy by half a dozen police and pushed into a van will know that if that can happen to somebody for using journalism to let us know the truth that can happen to anybody and if julian. is in braz he's in prison now but if he's on the way to an american prison well the principle is unaltered on the way to an american prison could be a host of other editors if they push their luck catherine via of the guardian the

editor of the new york times and i don't say that lightly the lead lawyer of the new york times asserted if julian and wiki leaks can be prosecuted so can the editors of those newspapers that carried their work this is unless this is the enough salt on journalism but you know it more than that it's an assault on citizenship because it can happen to anybody right across the world it is saying that international law doesn't apply julian was an a credited. beneficiary of the whole notion of of of asylum. the united nations working party on aba tree detention made that absolutely clear and it was clear in couple months to which britain is

a signatory now if that can be torn up if a regime as mired in in mercan corruption as the lenin merino regime in ecuador is today can call in the police in any country to arrest asylum seekers then think of all a historical examples we don't have to think about them so much i reported from the soviet union at the height of the cold war in the nineteen seventies and i've watched the k.g.b. and their associates do something similar to dissidents intimidate them march them out of their of their flats intimidate their families that was for political reasons what has happened to julian has happened on a political whim the idea that it's about bail and infringement is ridiculous we

both know that. it's about getting him across to a supermax in the united states it opens up a whole chapter of really diminishing the very principles that came out of the second world war upon which the universal declaration is based it shows how fragile a are do these lesser political beings in london in this government really understand that do they understand what they are setting in train i don't think so you say it's a warning to journalists journalists all around the world that alone here in britain's guy news channel four news because of c.n.n. in the united states seem much more keen to emphasize that this is nothing about. these big values your dorky about it's more about messiness in there the embassy now of course under the control of lenin merino in quito and and rape accusations

of course they do because journalism journalism in recent years has changed not radically it was always the so-called mainstream was always an extension of the state of the states ideology our freedom of debate has diminished but how the powerful are no longer a challenge that chav challenge on the trivial level but how that know they're not challenge to about the greatest humanitarian disaster in the world today and that is in yemen for which the british government is largely responsible and where britons are helping to direct this this atrocity helping with bomb aiming for saudi aircraft and logistics and

strategies and so on when is this when has this been made a a burning issue of debate we've handed the whole world of of the abandonment of basic democracy which is based on dissent on challenging on holding power to account on revelation on the embarrassment of power. not trivial and virus month the embarrassment of the odd celebrity but real embarrassment and wiki leaks provided that service that public service of journalism and it did it without fear or favor you know they publish something like eight hundred thousand documents on russia documents from the kremlin documents that we used in in in court cases in in russia they published the same about china. but the united

states and britain particularly the united states has arouse the ira because what we're in the the midst of at the moment is the world's great superpower struggling to maintain its dominance its implementation dominance its technological dominance its cultural dominance and wiki leaks has presented an extraordinary hurdle to this jewel in a sound then has become enemy number one but he should be and i don't say this lightly he should be hero number one. hero number one because if we lose thier songes and there are many of them. a handful may be there's certainly no one like him if we do lose the wiki leaks then we do lose

a few holes trotter of freedom we stop questioning you said he is a hero the foreign secretary jeremy hunt he has said he is no here or the prime minister tourism a started in the house of commons by saying the house should welcome his arrest alan duncan the foreign minister said it's total rubbish to raise the un ruling on arbitrary detention and the judge because quite apart from the media that we talk about quite often the judge district court judge here michael snow in westminster magistrates' court characterized just sons as having the behavior of a narcissist who can't get beyond his own selfish interest well that's just abuse that's not a judge that's an abuse or another judge would recognise that as an abuser the rest frankly you name joe jeremy hunt the man responsible for. so much destruction of the national health service when he was secretary state for

health i mean frankly i don't think these are credible people i think in the world of politics we're a very diminished state i'm trying to be polite about this but. i mean commenting on what hans says or the rest of them it used to be like commenting on what boris johnson says there's the problem there's another problem of course where is the opposition diane abbott made a spirited effort to describe julian a son she was dilemma's in these health and so on but what did the leader what did jeremy corben say. he said that the government should oppose his extradition i've been frankly it's best that germany corpsman doesn't say anything rather than tempered remarks like that if there was an opposition leader who could stand up to

the maze the hunts and the rest then perhaps we'd have some sense of real truth in debate to simply say the government should oppose the extradition is not enough it should be spelled out in in parliament what this this this extradition might mean if that threatens julian's life that he could end up spending the rest of his life in the kind of conditions that the un reporter on torture has already described he's already said that that's what he faces that's what we need to hear from the political opposition in britain ok well let's go to one of the most important wiki leaks revelations according to julian this sanjeev obviously covered so many decades of war by great powers he said the u.s. special forces unconventional warfare manual about savages subversion intelligence

overthrowing foreign governments specifically naming the i.m.f. and the world bank in o.e.c.d. as players in these strategies were unconventional warfare he said that that was one of the most important leaks was it to you yes i think it was one of the most important leaks because it it demonstrates the very nature of how the united states fights its colonial wars there are so many leaks that are related to. telling us about the true nature of war of course what really got julian into trouble and chelsea manning of course. was the video of collateral murder and that expressed most graphically what i would describe as the whole homicidal nature of american colonial wars and especially in iraq the three hundred sixty degree view of just kill them all and anybody watching that

video. really has to read very little else of the wiki leaks revelations about the nature of american wars because there are it is there is a kind of consensual belief i'm trying to think of a polite term for brainwashing frankly that. we don't do these kind of things we are perpetually but nine on our side and the americans a part of that these things simply do not happen they only they only happen on their side they only are they done by totalitarian states. they're done by rogue states when in fact clearly the biggest rogue state of all is the united states. the one that ignores international law that has threatened the prosecutor of the international criminal court has has told us that

. she can't have a visa to visit. the new york john pilger i'll stop you there more from john pilger after this break and we go to world famous tao te st chambers to speak to its founder julian assange lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c. that's all coming up after this break. u.s. veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the circular defense's office that says we're going to attack and destroy the governments and in seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with their money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's

way and willing to risk being killed for a war surely we can risk some discomfort for an easy way for. the business model of facebook is to pressure people to continue communicating through facebook and giving facebook personal information this is what makes facebook a surveillance monster show facebook does not have users facebook has used people that facebook use it's. welcome back i'm still here with legendary journalist and filmmaker john pilger as of the timing of this interview there's been no real solidarity shown by bernie sanders unlike fellow presidential candidate for the democrats' tools of gab word

but here we've been told that in the united states clinton e-mail releases where we can leaks were embarrassing rather than any mentions say of money for the clinton foundation from nations associated with is the miss terrorism what's the difference here embarrassing versus. corruption and corruption against arguably the interests of the united states i think that shows the almost what is the it's a it's a kind of primal need to protect these people the clinton e-mails but pedestrian the miles what they showed was that clinton hillary clinton was. a bedfellow of those who backed just hard as some in the middle east the cine knew but the backers of joe hart is them.

in in in in the middle east principly saudi arabia. she knew what they were doing. so she knew about the source of jihadism when i asked was that a tight and she was then secretary of state and she organized the biggest arms deal in history in selling arms american arms to saudi arabia. but it made her a de facto ally of jihad isn't in the middle east what that has to do with embarrassment i don't know if anyone's barassi i would have thought she is or ought to be and her superiors and her underlings in washington it's a ridiculous way of characterizing it let's get involved seven the largest cia leak

in history via wiki leaks and important about the revelations of malware in oil our mobile phones and making hacks appear as if they're from china or in russia edward snowden has explained all this your phone can spy on us it really infuriated. the cia and that's very understandable because it told us what they're up to it told us the the intensity and sophistication of their surveillance and so much of this and i mentioned earlier about for almost everything has to do with america. trying to reclaim its dominance particularly in relation to china the whole campaign against wild way. is over five g. technology and wild way has claimed with some justification that.

their device is the only ones without a back door but the n.s.a. cannot enter another words you can have a device from wild way that isn't contaminated by the n.s.a. and all the other agencies in the united states. and you could also have five jury the chinese development in technology is soaring ahead that has so much to do with all of this what about the fact that as explicitly emphasize one cable from embassador william roebuck to destabilize syria that big news story that's all but disappeared from all of front pages in recent wake weeks that that cable supposedly about instigating a war as far back as twenty zero six the media as i've said is an extension of

governments and their vested interests and the british government the u.s. government. set out to overthrow the government in syria they've failed so far they've failed for those who wanted to know the truth there was in the wiki leaks cable the the destabilisation of of syria but look you can go back i've seen m i six cables back in the fifty's that have been declassified but the talk about. the same thing about how they can destabilize syria. it was then assad's father syria was a important piece in the in the whole middle east chess game for western powers western oil powers it's been going on for a very long time job thank you now to the world famous daddy st chambers in london to speak to julian as a lawyer geoffrey robertson q.c.

. jeffrey the foreign secretary jeremy hunt said songes no hero no one is above the law he said he's hidden from the truth for years and years he will their face british justice the home secretary said to germany ahead of the release of further or further arrest of jury has said he's right be facing justice in the u.k. where he's not facing justice in the u.k. other than for breach of bail which is a very minor offense usually dealt with by a fine or a few weeks in prison these politicians so he may be there stirring up the judges to give him a couple of months but the justice that he's facing in is justice or injustice in america which wants him and has charges riddy for up to forty five years imprisonment and that's

a long time so not very hard to plan all of that which would prevent an extra dollar or death penalty as a red herring which the ecuadorian government is used to justify the outrageous behavior it's cruel and really a breach of faith in handing over forcibly its own asylum seekers they've given asylum to you but seven years to the police that's something that is unprecedented in the law of asylum and will make ecuador detested country in among those who believe that asylum law should be properly conducted but to. the claim that oh the british government has told us they will not extradite short us that they will not extradite to a country with the death penalty is simply nonsense the british government faces a law that doesn't allow it to. extradite anyone one of us authorities said

that there were isn't a deliberately well it's not one of the charges he's charged with conspiracy with chill c. manning now the fact that he is me that he's charged with agreeing with troops in manning to make public details of. sometimes crimes against humanity committed by american troops remember the manned aerial manslaughter when they shot those reuters journalists and a couple of children from from the helicopter that was put in that assad made available and is now are going to be the americans have their way is going to be a result in him not only spending years fighting the case but being

sent to jail and to britain act just like a colony obviously under british law you can be arrested for a public interest release net. about the british authorities to work i would know that i would hope the british judges have enough belief in freedom of information to actually throw out this extradition request in but what does this mean for the guardian the new york times and to speak a lot of rusbridger of the guardian schultz well yeah really they've all they all the rest of interior interaction where they could be but of course politically they were being the idea of making a sound sleep good is that he's not a particularly likable person he doesn't have the sort of establishment credentials of the new york times or the guardian his conviction and sentence just like josie manning will be

a terror to other publishers in europe everywhere to criticize and reveal information of misbehavior by american troops what have you and macaskill of the guardian reveals the chelsea manning was in close contact with the guardian and so on is it up to those newspapers in a sense to defend the songes all or because obviously julian is under the never stated that tells you manning was the. whistleblower they have their letter drop kind of the sort of scenario he's being accepted the journalistic principle of protecting his source that something the journalist pertained to follow and sometimes their proprietors don't because this is a monumental attack by this rotten american administration but other politicization of justice in this country than you alluded to ministers i mean you have long been talking about the un human rights committees education that he was under three to

ten year the british government alan duncan the minister of state for europe and the americas that's total rubbish where dog doesn't know a thing about the law and his comments of course are hostile to us aren't as are all this government ministers and so you can you expect him to get a fair trial when they're bad mouthing him i think you can and i think bush judges i have i have faith in them but whether i have faith in the u.s. supreme court is another matter because by the time this case comes before them and we're talking maybe five years how many trump appointee is will be on that court if you can do these extra land would you say governor well i hope he would be about if he is extradited and faces in prison long term of imprisonment it will of course he will claim because the trump argument is this

that the first amendment which protects journalists famously only apprise to american journalists and doesn't apply to any foreign journalists even those working for american papers in fact jim goodale who was the hero of the pentagon papers case he was the lawyer for the new york times he came out of retirement. the other day and he said the case however much you dislike. his case is the most important for media freedom since the pentagon papers case the a.c.l.u. backs that kind of thing you founded this chambers dowdy street chambers and have always talked about free speech for years and it is that one of your colleagues of all clooney i think works here has been appointed by the foreign office a special envoy on media for you can you help swing it can you an idea that that sort of matter that will be left to the foreign office but as

a chambers we do a lot of free speech with geoffrey robertson thank you. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to go from fields where

everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people. if you think. i'm going to talk about football not for you or else i just think i was going to go . by the way what is the punch line here.