a little something i've written about in lots of my songs over the years because it's when the law goes. that we find ourselves pitched into. wars and this team at the moment bolton abramson trump himself and pence and all the rest of them are desperately trying to pitch the world the planet that we live on into this war sorry i'm drifting of julian who we should all be focusing on because he is who the whole world should be focusing on him now because if we let the u.k. get away with allowing him to be extradited to the united states and we allow the united states government at their whim to torture him and to detain him possibly for the rest of his life we will have allowed them several steps further down the

road to absolute tyranny and probably the destruction of the planet that's my view it's hugely important the british people need to stop their government from allowing this been let in marina who would say that there is nothing bribe about bribery here he would say is not the cia base it meant to be the i.m.f. in fact he had an exclusive in the guardian once wiki leaks media which claimed that actually julian is onto some kind of spy against marino in the embassy mary no the president of ecuador now would say anything to make ten shillings he this is a man of absolutely no substance and no moral center and no compass he is only interested in that and the clearly lies constantly and consistently there is a me told parliament here's a welcome isn't just kept. and. apparently seventy m.p.'s in parliament of signed

a letter saying this is about sex allegations in sweden looked war crimes that's why he's in belmarsh prison in london he seems really because a gauge donald trump won't sing well that's absolute nonsense as we know those charges have all been dropped long ago there are no charges standing against him except some spurious at very minor. barn door bail charge and u.k. law which he's completely prepared to face under normal circumstances of jurisprudence in the u.k. the only reason he didn't was because he was frightened that as lackeys of the american empire the u.k. establishment would have him extradited to the usa which is what it looks as if

they're trying to do theresa may comes from a long line of lackeys a long long line cameron before blair before him we we've all seen what's happened. since the second world war with the moving away from the welfare state the attlee government put in place of to the second war towards more and more and more dependence upon the united states. with the nuclear submarine bases and scotland and so on and so on and so forth so we know that we are under the thumb while we the british people need to get out from under the thumb and say no this is wrong this is illegal this is a journalist and anybody who says no he's not a german yes he is all you need to be to be a journalist is somebody who has access to

a press they used to be printing presses back in the day when the laws were written now it's access to the internet or anything where you give information to your fellow citizens of the world and information doesn't matter what it is but the most important information that we julian assange she's fellow citizens of the globe nate is information about this secret malfeasance and wrongdoing of all governments which legend. and julian a song which along with chelsea manning and edward snowden and the other whistle blows down the years of the heroes who helped us to gain some of the knowledge that the powers that be would keep secret if they could this is in countries that call themselves democracy is where the government is supposed to be for the people no for the corporations not for donald trump not for the

abrams not for mike pence no for pompeo not for the rest of those rabbit down the moles who are in charge of everything but food we the people just to be clear obviously so we keeling's dozens it was obviously that there were never any charges in sweden just allegations but they you call him a journalist why do you think so many journalists are attacking julian a surgeon is it a coincidence that those journalists often like the european union in the jump administration also say support the overthrow of the venezuelan government there's a intersection why journalists attacking shootin and saying he's not a journalist why does so many journalists buy the narrative if that in venezuela which you just mentioned for instance that my doro is a vicious dictator and the people are big and blah and buy the story to keep their

jobs that's why. because if they express opinions that go against the narrative of the powers that be a. word filters down in one way or another they suddenly find that they're not getting the plum job they're not getting the promotion they're not getting that your job is on the line if you stand up to them i'm guessing obviously i don't know some of them may just be so dumb that they can't figure out the true. move. he collects information from sources which he protects he sometimes helps those sources to collect information or knowledge and then he publishes the information that a gets if he believes it to be real and true and in the public interest for him to publish it and he's not a journalist what is he then what is june in the sun should he's not i'm a you're

a journalist all of us this is journalism we are trying to find out the truth about things and. no explain it to the public but to make it a vailable to the public school freedom of information and it is absolutely central to the working of any healthy form of government including democracies and is what they're trying to prevent because they don't want the secrets to come out they want to keep everything secret they go want us to know about their methods of torture or their incarceration of in some people all thoughts why are they going off to june in a son because he is a thorn in their side also what they're trying to do trump and the rest of them and to raise them a is they're trying to frighten would be truly in

a son jeez who may provide this incredibly important service for the rest of us in society in the future that trying to scare them off so they won't do it that trying to make an example of julian a sergeant rather than doing what the u.s. just done on told yesterday and give him awards for telling the truth for blowing the whistle julie julie innocent also released unconventional regime change policy documents from the united states obvious the secret plans to destroy syria little in the more famous us will crimes in iraq a connection between all of these documents the wiki leaks distributed and how come you realize all of this when say as regards venezuela policy richard branson the live aid concert do support us in the you policy why do you know and people like branson to bronson's not enter branson is not interested in the reality branson is

interested in candyfloss and branson he doesn't care about politics in my view he. couldn't care less he's interested in making a splash for branson anybody who knows him will tell you that wait he actually he broadcasts it to be fair to him he doesn't hide the fact that he's a fluffy opportunist who really has no interest in anything real except his own eco but you are all you i was in touch with people in venezuela all the way through february who were with their reporting out of venezuela friends of mine and i was asking pertinent questions about what was actually going on and so if anybody did any research and didn't just listen to the narrative that was being repeated over and over again maduro is a dictator the people are starving the us is trying to help them with humanitarian

aid. we have to pull up and then suddenly out of the woodwork after a phone call. from who pence from pence wedo pops out of the woodwork and says hello i'm the new president my parents says. hold on a minute wouldn't the people of venezuela say so shouldn't they have a some part in this and by the way. maduro has not written rough showed of the constitution of the of venezuela the constitution of venezuela. is extremely important to madeira and to most of the people in venice why it's not important to guide oh because he plays fast and loose with it he lies about it each changes eight takes it out of context roger waters i'll stop you there more from

roger waters as well as the u.n. special rubble gerontology reza kneels melt after the break. i do think the numbers mean something they've matter us with over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime families each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent world market thirty percent some with one hundred to five hundred three per second per second and when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars a i industrial park but don't let the numbers over. the only number you need to remember one one business show you know bored to miss one and only boom

books. the activity known as journalism is under assault and it didn't start with the trials of julie massaging and weiqi leaks once it was a noble act report on the nefarious activities of those in power now it is being criminalized free speech is now the privileged few. bests drug where her cocaine is where four bucks for the under fifty it's the everybody use cocaine crack cocaine you can smoke it this is worth like fifteen thirty. twenty. car came to this is about a fifteen dollar bet and people smoke this one bigger second a sweetie you don't file these drugs in any city in the united states that you want

a long as you want to get it about the. make money. and that's what i did every day. welcome back i'm still here with actress to pink floyd frontman roger waters bernie sanders the front runner arguably of the d.n.c. to challenge trump in twenty twenty he complained about the door and said nothing about julian assange at all as far as i can tell politicians fearful of taking the kind of political positions you have of course they're fearful i actually use twitter very little but after the venezuelan comments from bennett tsongas where he made sweeping statements about my door oh and i.e. he was repeating the narrative. i'm it doesn't matter what i tweet

said he kind of discredited sim self and i'm really sorry to see it because in terms of domestic policy bernie sanders is done a great deal of good in the united states to push the argument to a more progressive position so a kind of feel for bernie sanders who i admire in some ways but of course he's scared. that he's going to make a mistake and that will be the end of his till to twenty twenty election you know you only have to see the way. some of the new progressive sing congress or even people who've been there for a few years get attacked for making any kind of financial war statement well actually can only as healthy some of the new women you know a puppet over tools of god would a o c n a o c is now talking about palestine and

is going out about palestine julian isn't just being called an a d c my german cool been who kind of supported us on this didn't want him to be extradited doesn't want to be extradited to the u.s. has been called in and he's in music racist how do you see palestine playing in on these issues we could have a long conversation about how smearing may and cobain and the sun and anybody else who criticizes the israeli government as an she's semites is absurd clearly and is such a blatant and cheap. tactic and we know why they do it we know why the ministry of strategic affairs in tel aviv. does it they do it because they have no aunts. to the accusations of human rights violations and war crimes and so on and so forth so it's just

a smokescreen to divert a. and sharon from the fact that our criticisms those of us who criticize the israeli government's policies in the occupied territories and in israel itself and support b.d.s. maybe it's a smokescreen to divert attention from the fact that we're right and they're wrong i was sickened by the way that was happening in the u.k. at the labor party conference and the attempted smearing of jeremy cole been coping he's a man of great principle he also has humanity he cares about people he empathizes with others cool cool been as that and diana but the shout of exactly is that assigns must not be extra di did i just quickly actually i better ask you about how dearly the zones eliminated issues like palestine and yemen and britain now sending record levels of weapons to israel somebody like julian assange which

willy nilly will be a progressive think thoughts why he chose to do the job that he chose to do that's why he's an activist. that's why we mention him in the same breath as joan pilcher because he cares about other people. he has some of the same qualities that jeremy kolb in as i'm going to ask you what you would say to the british prime minister and would you think about what will happen to julian is a huge here in london and whether indeed as some people say he might be killed but i was say to the british prime minister. i suspect that i mean i could say and i think first i'd say resign but after that obie for that i said before you resigned think carefully about handing julian a so over to the americans except i think

that would be a waste of my breath i think i need to speak directly to the british people i cannot use to raise a mag as a conduit to them caray to resumes beyond redemption and beyond help of any kind certainly for me in my view. tory she's a dyed in the wool posts that tory i have no respect for talk she's also provided oh presided over the greatest disaster is probably in the history of those set to dials and i'm talking about bricks it obviously would you say that such of the stakes here with that he might be killed or would you say that what we should learn from this whole episode is the importance of information and facts they are killing as son do you see him when he came out of the embassy he's been living he hasn't seen hardly seeing daylight for six years having committed

no crime just because donald trump the commander in chief once seemed dead he may vary. well end up dead that is why the british people he called them as he was taken by those special branch offices into that van and driven away he called upon the people of great britain to resist i heard him i watched on the t.v. they resist them and they should there should be a general strike in england to prevent them being extradited there should be millions in the street like there were before the invasion of iraq though the powers that be probably wouldn't take any notice they didn't of that so a songe we must or to everything that we can to protect him roger waters thank you well ahead of the forcible removal of julian assange by british authorities

professor neil's meltzer the un special rapporteur on torture was due to visit the wiki leaks founder in order to assess whether his conditions amounted to cruel inhuman or degrading treatment he joins me now via skype from geneva neal thanks so much for coming on so the u.k. prime minister tourism a minority government leader said in parliament we should welcome the arrest of julian a son jus a political refugee identity card and obviously she knew of the u.s. extradition request should we welcome it. and expressed extreme plans to expel an. embassy. because i would be arrested and possibly that is united states so i don't think that is a good development and should be extremely concerned about it you wanted to see him when he was inside the ecuadorian embassy just like your colleague the special rapporteur on previously just tell me why you weren't able to see him and now whether you're going to perhaps visit him in belmarsh prison in south east london

known to some as the kind of guantanamo of britain. well the first time mostly visit to the embassy and to a certain in the embassy and areas for a look or a sort of twentieth of april now that's a little bit long away from now and was surprised and shocked to see the rest and before we could actually visit him there yes another process of measuring an official request of the british authorities to be able to visit his current was a detention but so far you can't say there's been any obstruction of un special rapporteur to witness the conditions in which an innocent has been kept in what i cannot do it was to make your case and i certainly many requests and i have not been able to visit him at his place of detention and the concerns of the appeal that have a lot of the fifth of april to suspend any and visits to the steps of expelling him

have not been respected and you intend on applying then to come and see him out of belmarsh prison where to look at yes because his doctor or a medical doctor examined him in the ecuadorian embassy said the humanity any humanity of his treatment and the flagrant denial of his universal rights by a quid or the u.k. are unconscionable. well you know i didn't occur only a loosely made microcontrollers not about the past conditions or an embassy but it is to fall is first of all his current medical conditions and where there is apparently traditional liberty is proportional to support that you lot of us clinical condition and secondly the risks you expose to if extradited to the united states are different a different country because we now have revelations about what was going on when jeremy corbin's now breakfast secretary shadow brecht secretary once the head of the crown prosecution service we have messages showing that they apparently attempted to persuade swedish authorities not to drop sexual assault allegations

saying don't you get cold feet. you know certainly it is obviously difficult to make a definite statement on hold a precise connection between areas you know the scenes there seems to be some material there and some questions that are literally asked what we certainly cannot who are is that this is an extremely cold case and therefore also there is a great risk that if you market for your trial that there may be a public prejudice against you of course the papers are full of allegations here that this was about cleanliness in the embassy and the former media partner wiki leaks the guardian saying that lenin merino said that sondra of buying from the embassy as a political refugee with a refugee card under the one hundred fifty one convention can can an embassy just chuck someone out after previously giving them asylum. while others assign

maliciously zurab stirrers based on the risk of persecution also the. current quarter have to say that there is an absolute right to be protected against any risk of torture or treatment so if due to the extent of his expulsion or transfer could. risk of torture or treatment and there is absolutely no possibility for a state under all circumstances even national security concerns are not sufficient to allow to deny expelling the solution absolute duty to offer more through a more specific law and when you bring up the torture context are you building on that work of your predecessor mendez who said the chelsea manning was treated inhumanely and cruelly by the u.s. military when she was in detention of course he's now in solitary again for refusing to give information to a grand jury about julian assange. well obviously we're not you know the united

states has not proven to be known so if they've got a provision of quarter in the past two decades since that whole war on terror and the cia. policy on torture but an awful detention practices that has indefinite solitary confinement and other types of extremely harsh detention conditions do not include planes of the international law so that certainly it would raise my concerns when we were dealing with the case that is clearly politically very very real but but why do you think with all that context the prime minister and m.p.'s and journalists as they say in britain are all saying this is all about justice being served not to the risk of just is not being served. well i suppose she would have to consider the prime minister i cannot speak for her it certainly raises my view on. the government insists mary much on screen justice if you serve and you are to someone who will for a case that hasn't been suspended as it's known but there's not much just as being

served to you know torture has happened in unitas those you know prosecutions happen to all who you know there has been a systematic policy of quarter of four to the prime minister the so far answer of course to come on the show and we understand obviously the u.s. must have given some kind of confirmation that the death penalty could not be used in in many case against rudy has just part of britain's extradition with the united states is it your understanding or the united states could change the charges in the united states if he was extradited to the u.s. . will obviously what is going to happen if that were to happen and if then charges would be help wolf attentional you could. be extremely constrained and usually i think he'd be united as they would give a political assurance that he would not. polls i don't expect him to lucky.

but that's not the only concern. if someone gets the t.v. news liberty for the rest of his life or for many years under very harsh conditions for basically having done this to the list journalists do around the world. certainly. it would be extremely alarming and undermining for treatment. because even clearly if your guest has his own human rights resident thank you and that's it for this final episode of the season in the meantime keep in touch by social media will be replaying your favorite episodes while we're away have a happy easter and see you when we get back on international workers day wednesday the festival. seemed wrong. but. just don't call. me. yet to shape

out this day become educated and in gains from it because the trail. went something and find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground . what do you do before you came here where did you work before you came here when you live well death row and in many us states capital punishment is still practiced convicted prisoners can spend years waiting for execution but most of the time the victims' families they are very much in favor the death penalty there are some people because of what they did have given up the right to live among us somebody even proven innocent after years on death row and how many more tolerations is it going to take before we as a society. realize that this is not working and we actually do something about.

eating. to keep it as i live eat he can feel confident. funny. we have many things in this world this isn't enough for everyone and why some peoples also take our things all the power just for themselves since that is the mother.

of. these protesters plus with police in ecuador's but all following me or risk of the wiki leaks founder in london president accuses the whistleblower of turning the ecuadorian embassy where he's been for seven years to a. faces possible extradition to the u.s. where he could be tried on all occasions of hocking conspiring with fellow whistleblower chelsea freedom of speech activists say the charges are. also coming up in the program french made weapons that may have been used against

civilians in yemen.