roger thanks for coming on the show let's just start with what went through your mind when you saw the pictures of assad being dragged out of the ecuadorian embassy in london by british police we had been warned for several days because wiki leaks had got wind of the fact that they were going to actually do this but to see them physically carrying him out. special under no special branch as pows and putting him in that van and driving him away was absolutely chilling to think that the u.k. has become such a willing accomplice and satellites of the american empire that it would do such a thing in contravention of all lords moral ethical and actual legal restrictions is absolutely stunningly appalling and makes me ashamed to be an englishman i know you have campaigned against environmental destruction in ecuador under the lenin merino administration what do you think is behind the decision to

let u.k. police in to the embassy to capture him jump ill just said on this show that it would be a warning from history they bribe him with the promise of a four point seven billion i.m.f. loan i may say that they culminate does not end with getting moreno to give up julian a son which also they have plans to let chevron start drilling for oil in ecuador is most important national park which is a travesty beyond all imagination but let's stick to judea and the lower in the united states. after the patch are attacked and one zero two two one zero two one the amendments to it citizens barely have rights anymore everything is at the whim of the commander in chief and the commander in chief is

anything is allowed now there is no law there is no recourse to the law something i've written about in lots of my songs over the years because it's when the law goes. that we find ourselves pitched into. wars and this team at the moment bolton abramson trump himself and pence and all the rest of them are desperately trying to pitch the world the planet that we live on into this war sorry i'm drifting off julian who we should all be focusing on because he is who the whole world should be focusing on him now because if we let the u.k. get away with allowing him to be extradited to the united states and we allow the united states government at their whim to torture him and to detain him possibly for the rest of his life we would have allowed them several steps further down the

road to absolute tyranny and probably the destruction of the planet that's my view it's hugely important the british people need to stop their government from allowing this but let in marina who would say that there is nothing bribe about bribery here he would say is not the cia base it meant to be the i.m.f. in fact he had an exclusive in the guardian once wiki leaks media which claimed that actually julian is andras some kind of by against marino in the embassy mary no the president of ecuador now. would say anything to make ten shillings he this is a man of absolutely no substance and no morals and no compass he is only interested in that and the clearly lies constantly and consistently there is

a me told parliament here's a welcome isn't just capture and. apparently seventy m.p.'s in parliament of signed a letter saying this is about sex allegations in sweden looked war crimes that's why he's in belmarsh prison in london he seems really because he gave donald trump won't sing well that's absolute nonsense as we know those charges have all been dropped long ago there are no charges standing against him except some spurious ad very minor. barn door bail charge and u.k. law which he's completely prepared to face under normal circumstances of jurisprudence in the u.k. the only reason he didn't was because he was frightened that as lackeys of the american empire the u.k. establishment would have him extradited to the usa which is what it looks as if

they're trying to do theresa may comes from a long line of lackeys a long long line cameron before blair before him we we've all seen what's happened. since the second world war with the moving away from the welfare state the attlee government put in place over to the safe a war towards more and more and more dependence upon the united states. with the nuclear submarine bases and scotland and so on and so on and so forth so we know that we are under the thumb while we the british people need to get out from under the thumb and say no this is wrong this is illegal this is a journalist and anybody who says no he's not a german yes he is all you need to be to be

a journalist is somebody who has access to a press they used to be printing presses back in the day when the laws were written now it's access to the internet or anything where you give information to your fellow citizens of the world and information doesn't matter what it is but the most important information that we julian assange she's fellow citizens of the globe nate is information about this secret malfeasance and wrongdoing of all governments which legend. and julian a song which along with chelsea manning and edward snowden and the other whistle blows down the years of the heroes who help us to gain some of the knowledge that the powers that be would keep secret if they could this is in countries that call themselves democracy is where the government is supposed to be

for the people not for the corporations not for donald trump not for the abrams not for my pants not for pompeo not for the rest of those rabbit down the moles who are in charge of everything but food we the people just to be clear obviously so we can leak doesn't sue was obviously that there were never any charges in sweden just allegations but they you call him a journalist why do you think so many journalists are attacking julian a surgeon is it a coincidence that those journalists often like the european union in the jump administration also say support the overthrow of the venezuelan government there's a intersection why journalists attacking shootin and saying he's not a journalist why does so many journalists buy the narrative if that in venezuela which you just mentioned for instance that my doro is a vicious dictator and the people being

a law and by the story to keep their jobs that's why because if they express opinions that go against the narrative of the powers that be a. no word filters down in one way or another they suddenly find that they're not getting the plum job they're not getting the promotion they know getting that your job is on the line if you stand up to them i'm guessing obviously i don't know some of them may just be so dumb that they can't figure out the truth. he could legs him from a ship in from sources which he protects he sometimes helps those sources to collect information or knowledge and then he publishes the information that gets if he believes it to be real and true and in the public interest for him to publish

it and he's not a journalist what is he then what is june in the sun should he's not i'm a you're a journalist all of us this is journalism we are trying to find out the truth about things and. no explain it to the public but to make it a vailable to the public school freedom of information and it is absolutely central to the working of any healthy form of government including democracies and is what they're trying to prevent because they don't want the secrets to come out they want to keep everything secret they go want us to know about their methods of torture or their incarceration of in some people all that's why they're going off to june in a son because he is a thorn in their side also what they're trying to do trump and the rest of them and

to raise them a is they're trying to frighten would be chewed in a sun jeez who may provide this incredibly important service for the rest of us in society in the future that trying to scare them off so they won't do it they're trying to make an example of julian a sausage rather than doing what the u.s. just done on told yesterday and give him awards for telling the truth for blowing the whistle julian julian as the released unconventional regime change policy documents from the united states obvious the secret plans to destroy syria little in the more famous us will crimes in iraq a connection between all of these documents the wiki leaks distributed and how come you realize all of this when say as regards venezuela policy richard branson the live aid concert do support us in the you policy why do you know and people like

branson dude bronson's not enter branson is not interested in the reality branson is interested in candyfloss and branson. he doesn't care about politics in my view he couldn't care less he's interested in making a splash for branson anybody who knows him will tell you that weighty actually he brought coast sit to be fair to him he doesn't hide the fact that he's a fluffy opportunist who really has no interest in anything real except his own eco but you are all you i was in touch with people in venezuela all the way through february who were with their reporting out of venezuela friends of mine and i was asking pertinent questions about what was actually going on and so if anybody did any research and didn't just listen to the narrative that was being repeated

over and over again maduro is a dictator the people list of ng the us is trying to help them with humanitarian aid. we have to pull up and then suddenly out of the woodwork after a phone call. from who pence from pence wedo pops out of the woodwork and says hello i'm the new president mike pence says whoa hold on a minute wouldn't the people of venezuela say so shouldn't they have a some parts in this and by the way. maduro has not written rough showed of the constitution of the of venezuela the constitution of venezuela. is extremely important to madeira and to most of the people in venezuela is not important to wide oh because he plays fast and loose with it he lies about it

a changes eight takes it out of context roger waters i'll stop you there more from roger waters as well as the un special rubble gerontology resident of liberator. we came here where did you work before you came here when you live well death row in many us states capital punishment is still practiced convicted prisoners can spend years waiting for execution but most of the time the victims' families they are very much in favor of the death penalty there are some people because of what they do have given up the right to live among us somebody even proven innocent years on death row and how many more exonerations is it going to take before we as a society realize that this is not working and we actually do something about.

the activity known as journalism is under assault and it didn't start with the trials of julian assange and wiki leaks once it was a noble to report on the nefarious activities of those in power now it is being criminalized free speech is now the privileged few. welcome back i'm still here with activists of pink floyd frontman roger waters but the sun does the front runner of the d.n.c. to challenge trump in twenty twenty he complained about the door and said nothing about julian at all as far as i can tell politicians fearful of taking the kind of political positions you have of course the faithful i actually use twitter very little but all through the venezuelan comments from this way he made sweeping statements about my door oh and he was repeating the narrative.

i'm it doesn't matter what i tweet said he kind of discredited sim self and i'm really sorry to see it because in terms of domestic policy bernie sanders is done a great deal of good in the united states to push the argument to a more progressive position so i kind of feel for bernie sanders who i admire in some ways but of course he's scared. that he's going to make a mistake and that will be the end of his til to twenty twenty election you know you only have to see the way. some of the new progressive sing congress or even people who've been there for a few years get attacked for making any kind of financial war statement well actually can only as healthy some of the new women you know about poverty as a guy would a o c n a o c is now talking about palestine and is going out about

palestine julian isn't just being called an a d c my german cool been who kind of supported us on this didn't want him to be extradited doesn't want to be extradited to the u.s. has been called in and he's in music racist how do you see palestine playing in on these issues we could have a long conversation about how smearing may and cobain and the sun and anybody else who criticizes the israeli government as anti semites is upset clearly and does such a blatant and cheap. tactic and we know why they do it we know why the ministry of strategic affairs in tel aviv. does it they do it because they have no aunts. to the accusations of human rights violations and war crimes and so on and so forth so it's just

a smokescreen to divert a. and sharon from the fact that our criticisms those of us who criticize the israeli government's policies in the occupied territories and in israel itself and support b.d.s. maybe it's a smokescreen to divert attention from the fact that we're right and they're wrong i was sickened by the way that was happening in the u.k. at the labor party conference and the attempted smearing of jeremy cole been coping he's a man of great principle he also has humanity he cares about people he empathizes with others cool cool women as that and diana but the shot of him sector is that assigns must not be extra di did i just quickly actually i better ask you about how dearly it is looming aged issues like palestine and yemen and britain now sending record levels of weapons to israel somebody like julian assange which willy

nilly will be a progressive think thoughts why he chose to do the job that he chose to do that's why he's an activist that's why we mention him in the same breath as john pilcher because he cares about other people. he has some of the same qualities that jeremy cobain has i'm going to ask you what you would say to the british prime minister and what you think about what will happen to julian isn't here in london and whether indeed as some people say he might be killed what i would say to the british prime minister. i suspect that i mean i could say and i think first i'd say resign but after that oh before that i said before you resign think carefully about handing julian assange over to the americans except i think that would be

a waste of my breath i think i need to speak directly to the british people i cannot use to raise a mag as a conduit to them caray to resumes beyond redemption and beyond help of any kind certainly for me in my view should tory she's a dyed in the wool posts that tory i have no respect for talk she's also provided oh presided over the greatest disaster is probably in the history of those set to dials and i'm talking about bricks it obviously would you say that such of the stakes here with that he might be killed or would you say that what we should learn from this whole episode is the emboldens of information and facts they are killing as son do you see him when he came out of the embassy he's

been living he hasn't seen hardly seeing daylight for six years having committed no crime just because donald trump the commander in chief once seemed dead he may very well end up dead that is why the british people he called them as he was taken by those special branch of the. says into that van and driven away he called upon the people of great britain to resist i heard him i watched on the t.v. they resist them and they should there should be a general strike in england to prevent them being extradited there should be millions in the street like they were before the invasion of iraq and though the powers that be probably wouldn't take any notice they didn't of that so as sarge we were store to everything that we can to protect him roger waters thank you well

ahead of the forcible removal of julian assange by british authorities professor in the old smelter the un special rapporteur on torture was due to visit the wiki leaks founder in order to assess whether his conditions amounted to cruel inhuman or degrading treatment he joins me now via skype from geneva neal thanks so much for coming on so the u.k. prime minister tourism a minority government leader said in parliament we should welcome the arrest of julian a son jus a political refugee identity card and obviously she knew of the u.s. extradition request should we welcome it. and expressed extreme plans to expel an. embassy. because i would be arrested and possibly the states so i don't think that is a good development and should be extremely concerned about it you wanted to see him when he was inside the ecuadorian embassy just like your colleague the special rapporteur on previously just tell me why you weren't able to see him and now

whether you're going to perhaps visit him in belmarsh prison in south east london known to some as the kind of guantanamo of britain. well i will first mostly visit to the embassy and to assign again in the embassy and areas for all of the orders for the twentieth of april now that's a little bit long away from now and was surprised and shocked to see the arrest and before we could actually visit him there yes i heard another process of measuring an official request of the british authorities to be able to visit him in his current as a detention but so far you can't say there's been any obstruction of un special rapporteur to witness the conditions in which an innocent has been kept in what i cannot do it was to make your case and i salute many requests and i have not been able to visit him at his place of detention and the concerns of the appeal that have a large and fifth of april to suspend any and visits to the steps of expelling him

have not been respected and you intend on applying that to come and see him out of belmarsh prison oh absolutely yes because his doctor or a medical doctor examined him in there the ecuadorian embassy said the humanity any humanity of his treatment and the flagrant denial of his universal rights by a quid or the u.k. are unconscionable. well you know perfectly obviously you may be concerned it's not about the past conditions or an embassy but it is to fall it's first of all his current medical conditions and whether it is apparently provisional liberty is proportional to support that lot of his clinical condition and secondly the risks you expose to if extradited to the united states are different a different country because we now have revelations about what was going on when german corbin's now breakfast secretary shadow brecht secretary once the head of the crown prosecution service we have messages showing that they apparently

attempted to persuade swedish authorities not to drop sexual assault allegations saying don't you get cold feet. you know certainly it is obviously difficult to make that statement on hold a precise connection between areas to the scenes there seems to be some material there and some questions that literally asked what we certainly canada who are is this is an extremely cold case and therefore also there is a great risk to market for your trial that there may be a public prejudice against you of course the papers are full of allegations here that this was about cleanliness in the embassy and the former media partner wiki leaks the guardian saying that lenin merino the buying from the embassy as a political refugee with a refugee card under the one hundred fifty one convention can can an embassy just

chuck someone out after previously giving them asylum. while others assign maliciously zurab stirrers based on the risk of persecution also the. current quarter have to say that there is an absolute right to be protected against any risk of torture or treatment so if due to the extent of his expulsion or transfer could. the risk of a cultural treatment and there is absolutely no possibility for a state under normal circumstances even a national security concerns are not sufficient to allow to deny expelling a solution absolute duty too often asked for more specific law and when you bring up the torture context are you building on that work of your predecessor mendez who said the chelsea manning was treated inhumanely and cruelly by the u.s. military when she was in detention of course he's now in solitary again for refusing to give information to a grand jury about julian assange. well obviously we're not you know the united

states has not proven to be. a provision of quarter in the past two decades since that whole war on terror and the cia. holocene on torture but in arsal detention practices it was indefinite solitary confinement and other types of extremely harsh detention conditions do not complaints of the international law so that certainly it would raise my concerns when we were dealing with each case that is clearly politically very very relevant but why do you think with all that context the prime minister and m.p.'s and journalists as they say in britain are all saying this is all about justice being served not the risk of just as not being served. well i suppose she would have to consider the prime minister i cannot speak for her it certainly raises my go on to see a government insists mary much on on screen just as you saw her and your car to

someone else for it ok so it hasn't been suspended as it's known but there's not much just as being served to you know torture is happening you notice there is no prosecutions happen to all who you know there has been a systematic policy of quarter of four to the prime minister the so far answer of course to come on the show and we understand obviously the u.s. wants to give. some kind of confirmation that the death penalty could not be used and in any case against really doesn't just bought of britain's extradition with the united states is it your understanding of the united states could change the charges in the united states if he was extradited to the u.s. that's. a little obviously what's going to happen if that were to happen and if then charges would be held wolf potentially the best hopes you could be extremely concerned usually i think the united states when it would give the political sure i'm stuck to that he would not be imposed i would expect him to actually respect.

but that's not the only concern but if someone gets to t.v. how does liberty for the rest of his life or for really years of tradition. for basically have been done mystical if journalists do around the world. that certainly. would be extremely alarming and undermining for. the community clearly because if your guest has his own human rights has an e-mail from alpha thank you and that's it for this final episode of the season in the meantime keep in touch by social media will be replaying your favorite episodes while we're away have a happy easter and see you when we get back on international workers day wednesday the bus to play. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going

to do next about different clubs on one hand it is the logical place to go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective and i'm used to surprising. what not to give you. i'm going to talk about football not for you. because think i was going to go. by the way ways of.

living are. supporters of joining us on clash with police in ecuador's capital after the arrest of the wiki leaks founder in london president moreno accuses the songs of turning at the ecuadorian embassy where he spent seven years into a. song which faces a possible extradition to the u.s. where he could be tried on allegations of hacking and conspiring with whistleblower chelsea manning freedom of speech activists say the charges are an attack on journalist. french made weapons that may have been used against civilians in yemen this according to leaks reportedly from french intelligence. climate

change protesters blocked train services in london.