yes that are suitable but an i.p.o. those are a black box you don't know what the earnings are going to be that bad report is first time as a public company so it's not really a hedge funds play in the i.p.o. space they do well or don't do well but that's their heads if you're not hedged to them run the risk of being wrecked of course we did cover it on kaiser report before they went public and the c.e.o. of lift was saying that will probably never have a profit we might never earn a profit so it was already there they were telling you we've been losing money billions and billions of dollars and we're probably never going to make any money but people still it's like hey let's go for it but you know over the easter weekend the i.m.f. tweeted out a link to their study from february that also we covered on kaiser report but until they tweeted it nobody seemed to have ever paid attention to it but they tweeted that their their ideas for extreme negative rates how to basically take some money

from the ordinary consumer the ordinary citizen who is refusing to spend that they're trying to save up their thousand bucks that they plan to retire on so everybody went crazy about this and it was back in the news and of course it could have helped when big coin then soared after that but here was a story from germany that i thought was really interesting good morning from germany where germans hoard more gold than the buddhist bank has in its vaults germans own eight thousand nine hundred eighteen tons of gold about six point five percent of the world's gold reserves a third is kept at home in the past two years alone two hundred fifty tons have been added just the ordinary citizens of germany have bought two hundred fifty tons in the past two years alone skipping back this i.m.f. story another getting more open about their friend pushing negative interest rates and some a look the globe has two hundred twenty two hundred thirty trillion. in debt and

that has been the go to operand day for banks to bail themselves out is to get the central banks to indent the world to keep these banks from having to declare their insolvent like deutsche bank being a prime example but even at this level they've run out of runway they can't really float another hundred one hundred fifty trillion dollars worth of debt to keep these banks solvent so they're just going to take people's money and take it out of their account doesn't negative interest rates that's what it is they just say hey you know guess what we just took money out of your account because the bank made to pretend like it's not insolvent but i say and they're going to continue to go deeper and deeper into the black hole of debt you know it without any and really there's not there's no checks and balances it doesn't stop them as though he can omics policy there's no law there's nothing to stop them there is a similar headline in the news as well this past week i don't have a right here but it was on bloomberg and it said economists are just figuring out

that low interest rates help the economy or at least the stock markets but actually seems to cause inequality when again you and i have been covering the fact of the can till in effect and richard cantillon by the way was born in the sixteen eighties so everybody's known for a couple hundred years now that it's free money to solve with zero percent interest rate. causes inequality because by the time it falls down to those who are being now going to be subjected to negative rates they're paying they're not only having negative rates on their savings on their meager savings but they're also having twenty percent interest rates on their credit that they're borrowing from the same banks being gifted as their zero percent that's naturally going to cause a wealth and income wealth definitely a wealth gap imagine that you run a blood bank and in one room are dead patients they've been dead since two thousand and eight that would be j.p. morgan goldman sachs deutsche bank be in

a society generali just be say except are up and in the other room you have living middle class people and the point of blood bank is to take blood from the living middle class people into transfused blood to the dead banks next door that they've been dead now for more than ten years well eventually the people that are in the middle class are going to start to suffer and suffer horribly and many of them will die and by the way they won't be getting any of the blood from the other middle class people to keep them alive all the blood all the plasma goes to the dead banks to make them look like they're animated in some way even though technically they are insolvent they are dead they stink to high heaven and they are in fact a devers well actually that segues well into my next headline here because here you have you know the germans are very smart about financial shenanigans of monetary shenanigans that go horribly wrong they've have

a bad history with that and they know not to believe in central banks but in terms of health and credit and that of course the us by the nature of having the reserve currency our our our citizens here we are the consumers of last resort and we have the huge amount of debt to keep the world afloat america has borrowed eighty eight billion dollars in the past year to pay for. health care it's no secret that medicare is expensive but the fact that so many americans are forced to finance it is problematic roughly one in eight americans needed to borrow money in some shape or form to cover a medical bill in the past twelve months on nearly twenty five percent of u.s. adults had to cut back on spending to pay for health care meanwhile sixty five million american adults avoided treatment for medical issues due to cost involved of course you won't see this in germany you won't see that in france or the united kingdom or anywhere in europe or singapore hong kong or anywhere most of the world do not have to borrow and go into debt to pay for health care imagine you ran

a blood bank that placed the word blood with credit because that is the blood of an economy and you have a bunch of dead banks in the one room and the credit. sellers are putting all of that into the dead banks the plaza that is needed to keep people healthy are there having to borrow ever increasing interest rates and in fact killing themselves to make the dead banks seem like they're animated this is a suicide culture to keep dead banks looking like they're not dead it's not even like they're committing suicide to keep somebody alive to feel like they have some existential connection to some power or the cosmic universe these banks are dead and people are blowing themselves up they're chilling themselves to keep dead banks for being animated and look like they're not dead that's the u.s.

healthcare system is a pox on civilization absolutely we're going to cover that in our summer solutions we're going to go over some solutions about this because there's been interesting studies just recently and if you go to my twitter stream stacey herbert you'll see i've been talking about it because a lot of it has to do with the monopolization we you know we say we have capitalism here but monopolies run almost everything or all of gaap liaison our telecoms. system there on the health care system but especially hospitals most places in the us actually only have one hospital group in the whole area so obviously you're going to most expensive treatment isn't a hospital i emerge and see care cancer care you know all that sort of stuff is done in a hospital and if it's just one group setting the price but and it's not just lower earners who find health care financially burdensome overall forty five percent of americans are worried that a major health issue could drive them into bankruptcy seeing how medical debt is

the number one source still post obamacare of personal bankruptcy filings in the country that's not shocking what is surprising however is that thirty three percent of households earning at least one hundred eighty thousand dollars fear that a medical event can up and their finances completely and they can because it does if you have those drive by doctors in the emergency rooms in the hospital you know the banking sector which is the insurance sector they conspired to send somebody in . outside of your net or to inflate your bill to like forty thousand dollars so nobody is especially if you're only on a hundred and eighty thousand dollars if you're one on one hundred eighty million dollars you don't mind but one hundred eighty thousand dollars is still thirty percent of your income on a drive by dr so the banks are owned by the monopolists that are connected to the banks so let's say you need an appendectomy and you're about to die so you go to the hospital and they say doctor doctor i need an appendectomy i'm about to die they say do you fifty thousand a pill of j.p.

morgan like now it will operate do you think is right now gone right and you're like well i mean to have my brother's taken out i guess i have to give j.p. morgan or goldman or wall street fifty thousand dollars some studies to make them at dead bank look like they're not dead ok then you give the fifty thousand dollars then they you know will go in there they'll remove your appendix and do a sloppy job more than often than not i know mad happened to me as our bill scar the guy used a separated bread knife. it's like all. right i mean what a joke it was a sort of been baking bread down in the corner and not trying to perform appendectomies anyway so to wrap this story up and tie it to the on going for stories is you know you have people subjected to this health care system where you might suddenly even though you're paying thirty thousand dollars a year in premiums you might suddenly get hit by a drive by doctor who load you up with a seventy thousand dollar bill so you're going into the casino and hoping to win

big time on a lift i.p.o. where the numbers don't add up but hey you know you're going to roll the dice and hope to make them become a you know rich enough to afford your medical care in the meantime the germans know best they're buying gold of course the germans are buying gold to keep themself whole. anyway we'll take a break when we come back much more coming away don't go away stay right there. he needs a political impulse needs to come. from. well ideally to normandy for. been. giving political guidance to the process so basically what i'm waiting for is an altar political impulse ideally. from the moment you can.

even. keep it as i live the good feel confident. we have many things in the smiles and this is an e-mail for everyone why some people's minds so take our things all the power just for themselves.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race in this spearing dramatic development the only really i'm going to resist i don't see how a. that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. about. this. i put them on the cupboard i. i i i i i.

i. welcome back to the kaiser report i'm nice guys are timed out to go to sergey cutler he is the c.e.o. and founder of bit refill which is a crypto big going company i should full disclosure tell you that we are making an investment in this company as it hits the market on banks of the future and we'll be talking a little bit about that but first surrogate welcome thank you and i met you at such a she round table all in february and we got started to talking about that refill and it's an interesting story because you know we've been through what many call the crypto winter and during that period of time a lot of companies have a lot of challenges some of them haven't made it through trip i want to or bit

refile has been busy busy busy and growing and expanding and and doing really great things so tell us a little bit about that refill what we're trying to do you know the the vision of big corn was was never that it was going to be corn is there sent between exchanges that in itself is cool but we're trying to it's not what we nobody here showed up for that i think we all showed up for a vision of internet money where billions of people are transacting it's you know paying it show they're getting paid to buying stuff and so on and so we're bitter if of those is that we enable people to rely on bitcoin as money by making sure that they're able to buy whatever they want with their coins yeah this is interesting because you know as you point out back in the two thousand and eleven twelve and thirteen it was big coin was going to be the pay pal of benaud crypto and it was about being able to use it to buy stuff and then at around twenty sixteen this idea well you know actually it's best to use cases as

a store of value it's digital gold and you had a lot of dissension in the ranks in the big going community in the crypto community had. for acts of big quiet and people claiming that this is what is for us actually for spending and buying a cup of coffee etc but what you guys have done is they've kind of like brought in all the way back and said you know what the problem is not really that merchants are not accepting it this coin so much it's that we need to make it easier for users to spend their big call and it kind of looked at the problem in a new way and in so doing i think i've solved for the most part this whole bitcoin used as payments problem so if i'm not mistaken. it's kind of like you're in the gift card business if you will our voucher business i think one of your biggest customers as hotels dot com and so i can actually go to your site and i could swap my big coin for

a voucher on hotels dot com and i go to hotels dot com i can spell i can spend big one right but that's pretty much the bread and butter of the business that is the better and you've got one thousand mark since now who are signed up right and we're expanding quickly correct now where mostly most of our merchants that is in the u.s. and u.k. but there are we have a pretty aggressive plan for for covering the road with with gift card support that country by country doing during the rest of the year and that referral is actually takes a fee for the transaction in most cases that the gift card of the customer and buys from us even if it's a hundred dollar gift card and it cost a hundred dollars but we actually bought a ship and that's also at about heartless for a second a car saddlers and this is the idea that well because people are skinflints they're not spending their money they want to hold on to it because the price is going higher i believe if i've read your tweets and your blogs and your comments

correctly what you've noticed is that no matter what the price is there is a subset of people who want to spend their frickin bet on right and ok the price could go to ten thousand one hundred thousand a million it just means that that ratio of people within that subset are going to be spenders a big going to need notice that throughout this bear market there are still people looking to spend but going correct completely unchanged in fact with growth three or four x. during it during this year asking about hardliners and so on is the wrong perspective and the way we see it is we're looking for people that have course to spam and someone who just bought a thousand dollars worth of bitcoins as an investment they're not going to you know go and buy stuff with it the first thing they do. but so people with going to spend are people look the simplest example of someone who's getting paid and bitcoin right their whole salary is a bitcoin guess what they're going to be spending but couldn't because that's how life is you buy stuff with it right though this is a simplistic example and there's other cases in the in the bitcoin economy people

that are trading the participate in different from programs affiliates and so on the earnings that way but but also people you know who started all this on theirs and the one thousand dollars of bitcoins you know three four years ago and i was worth quite a bit you know what they also of course spend though and they are suddenly you know both feeling rich and being rich and we offer them a great experience to buy things with the coins so i think looking at it from that perspective is a lot better than trying to resist the question of hobbling or not hobbling it like let people do what they want of course you know if if if if you think the big winners going to go up a value and you want to hold it do it make it as fine there are going to be people who want to spend the big client and the price goes up just means it's going be more because you spend and so this is about your business or you could call to get card business but not everyone uses as gifts but it's just

a structured in that way and so you are basically have a relationship with all these merchants and if you want to go spend your big lie that those merchants you guys a big client have the way to do it you get a code for that merchant you go to our site tap and go and you've just spent your big going now also and you have a technique or your strategy is zero confirmations just on the technical side you know because it is something where some merchants or some folks will want to wait for five or six confirmations before they totally accept the payment you say we've got zero confirmations which is that kind of innovation in the space if you well and speaking of innovations so you get there so it's a deep thinker and a technologist and a whiz kid you have jumped. on the lightning network right away that's captured the imagination of bitcoin world but those in the audience don't know what lightning network is what is it and how are you using it then i think that for a very simply is a way to make big question transactions no fast and cheap and good so if and with

a nice user experience and technically how it's built up i think it's it's not as interesting it the important part is that it gives people these benefits it's what we thought the big quote was all along. but then learned that maybe it wasn't entirely and lightning is is is that acknowledging there was sort of always envisioned that one day we will have at the knowledge that it uses this this payment channels to do translate a little bit of start lighting networking and she says if i find going to try to quote her here i'll buy do a good job in doing so but she said look big cohen is like the basic protocol the internet and on top of internet where many applications were built right so you have a big point is a basic protocol level technology and on top of that there will be applications and just to do payments you know just delighting that works and that's you know reminds me back in the one nine hundred ninety s. when i was in the technology business everyone sat around all day long asking when

is video coming one is video coming and then suddenly flash came with. you tube and it wasn't necessarily the best technology out there but it was adapted quite quickly and it gave people videos finally on the internet to dig a little bit deeper into a bit refill is doing you've got now what you call the thor products really became quite prominent during the lightning network trusts chain or pound l. and t. trust chain as torchbearers confronted liquidity issues so now we're going to we're going to drop down into a bit of a technical level here right but describe your product a thor product in the lightning network and tell us a little bit about that the way the life and the. like the network works is that there's channels between people and the channel surfing someone explain it as be on the accounting book right so you open a channel to you and usually in the beginning the money will be on my side that means that if i open a chance you can send money to you but you can some money to me not right away not

until i sent them over to you right and this creates a problem because what if. where then to find that a big part of creating this circular economy and big question is for people to be able to earn points to be able to that earnings both for big jobs and small jobs and whatever to get paid in the points and getting paid over lightning is difficult if you don't have a channel and so what the thought public does is that it lets people get a channel opened to them from us where one of the most connected notes on the like network with you know been. always first with all of the new technologies and so on so if you know you it's in a lot of ways it's like internet service provider if you think of. if you think of a nice be it interacts on one end it interacts with the whole internet with everything is as fast as home and so on but on the other end it connects to

someone's apartment downtown right that's similar to what sort of takes the sort of well connected parts of the light the network and it connects it to your place and your place and so on ok so i hear some you know maximalist screaming in the in the far away land saying oh it sounds like centralization vs decentralization. is at an issues and not an issue is a non-issue it's always good to drive for four more decentralization and so. the thor is a noncustodial service so we don't know once the channels been set up we're out of the picture make it where we are a lightning node but we're not the we're not extolled in all the phones we're not the money service business routes things like that so it's still in a lot of ways it's as centralized. services and in this base are but obviously we are a company break you know and the company is by definition as an entity just like

every other company in the space right so now what person what how much your business is is this lighting stuff down so. last month we hit the milestone of six percent of our of our purchases happening on the like network ok so many sounds like something like you know enough like it was in the cd business first and then they want a streaming so you know your primary business isn't gift cards which sounds remarkably low brow but it's kind of a dumb solution to a very simple problem people spend their frickin decline right you're looking down the path or saying well you know lightning is kind of like are going to be our netflix point two or the next level do you think it will be the next thing the come down the pike and why not why lighting an outside change like liquid i think lightning is good enough for them. lightning is. the most sort of decentralized solution that we have scales and from the perspective i think it

likely will be enough but it doesn't really matter if even if i'm wrong and it is a change the becomes a big thing the show will support that's how gyal are you as a startup because that's really an important feature and we will go around saying that we're the best in the world except encrypt the currency payments so. some people have challenged that but. in the world that's the thing cryptocurrency pain that sounds like a unicorn waiting to happen. we like to think that as an investor well how long before the unicorn thing hits because i want to be able to buy stacey another cup of coffee. and i think about that i would guess i could buy but anyway service thanks for being on the kaiser report thank you well that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser part was me nice guys are on stage heard like to thank our guests surrogate cotler he's the c.e.o. and founder of bit refill bit re felt. yeah we own shares of the company if you want to catch us on twitter it's guys are part of.

facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately it was also a very dark so. they are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real it's detailed and it never goes away turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very first character that you type into the search bar it will always be one dog food over another one comparative shopping service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results on what they think you should be see if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and fair election doesn't exist the more growth we give them the sooner we're all.

what is it calling the coin is magic the new type of digital currency decentralized digital scarcity chancellor. of second or bank that's called that get us a lot for a reason because being a civil disobedience a source of optimism because i can control my own financial destiny it's just a new way of coming to consensus it's a game changer in the human history and this is columbus discovering the new world this paradigm shifting technology that transforms economics and finance in a heartbeat the apollo eleven landing. to the max and stacey. just have to keep it as i live eat here for yourself then. find it.

really need to. be done. and we have learned things and the smiles alex this is it will for everyone and why some people's minds so take our things all the power just for themselves. that. we could only be dull sort the rulebook. sits. so appreciative i'll

sell something you don't have to. measure typical someone playing if they don't. believe i'm on the group. to build them over movies except your then he says and calls with folks like me that call for the security just hold it where you both took a. long . period and all psycho. wall enclosure will get a producer. this is.

the father of a russian woman imprisoned in the us for failing to register as a foreign agent says she is being treated as a pawn while her lawyer says the case was an extra. in the political climate in the us. none of. us were illegal. in and of themselves but she got caught up in this. to start. signing up for the twenty first century silk road to china's road forum comes to a close in beijing with sixty four billion dollars worth of an investment agreed upon. and orthodox christians around the world celebrate the holiest day in their town.