on a leader's words and a misunderstanding could trigger disaster the art of translation becomes crucial in global affairs what does the translator witnessed behind closed doors during one on one negotiations how do translators who show the world leaders cope with the risk of a mistake and do they also have their own impact on global decisions. it is so great to have you on our program welcome thank you so ana talk about you in this century for the most part when you go back a little bit when you first started working on the level of us so it's still a bit scary you that you're translating reagan i'm like you are literally translating the words of the most powerful man in the world did it that moment. i don't think i was scared frankly i don't think that if you're scared of

responsibility you want to do this kind of work. it is interesting that this was the first time that simultaneous interpretation was used rather than consecutive interpretation when you first listen to the speaker and the in target what you just said simultaneous interpretation was first tried in helsinki at the high level in helsinki during the meeting of george shultz and one shevardnadze in the summer of nineteen eighty five years and years ago but now it has become rather common practice at that time it was very new i was thrilled i was fascinated not afraid not scared but certainly i felt the responsibility so you were on board the. beginning of the end of the cold war started so this is home for us as you are important where you allowed to have

a political position where you are allowed to have a say in this things. in part that depends on the position that you have in the foreign ministry initially was a member of the department of translation and interpretation and it was only later in early one nine hundred eighty seven that i was transferred to the usa desk to the department of usa and canada of the ministry of foreign affairs in that position i was involved in the preparations both for ministerial meetings and summits and in that position i dast have maybe much influence but they could contribute but the most important moments are when the principals of the foreign minister or the president actually ask your opinion when that

happens you are on your own and your mom justin to you actually have to say what you think and to me with my very limited political prior experience that was not easy but that happened because i know that her intimate with gorbachev nods and know about cherie nazi is my grandfather and i know about gorbachev because you're his advisor up to this day how did you earn their trust. how does that happen how does that happen the initial process is earning the trust as a professional as an interpreter but then inevitably i work with both of them for six years and inevitably you become closer and either trust not only you as a professional translator interpreter but also they begin to trust your opinion

because they know that you have been with them through a great deal i think it started in the reykjavik with gorbachev at about the same time. and they did ask for my opinion sometimes difficult moments. during the whole process of ending the cold war it was not actually a smooth and easy process as many people now think it was a process that had. its walls obstacles difficult moments were in miss misunderstandings of course when understanding's seemed to be breaking. i think at that time they asked my opinion just because i was closest to them physically. so you're obviously not only translating it right with that but also emotionally and intellectually

involved in a process and it was a very difficult process like you pointed out it was no smooth a lot of things were breaking into put together it was like a work of a juror ritual rainmaker and somehow it worked the cold war and it before we get back to you in your profession i just one hour ask you looking back now and what's happening between us and russia does it doesn't. well maybe there's only because when one has the prior experience of working with. the presidents at the summit level one doesn't the stand that there are and flow that there are moments story moments that sometimes last more than a moment sometimes last long and look like everything is collapsing but you know she's story clearly that the moments of the past.

are never ruined totally and i think that it is a difficult moment the relationship is dismal that would be my word but it's not hopeless and i think that one day a real dialogue will resume and i wish well to those people who will be resuming their dialogue and who will help them be seen in that dialogue you have translated all these great leaders how important is the personal chemistry between man. i mean i can say gorbachev and reagan baker and sharon nonsectarian love for us even if you're ideologically on different sides of the personal chemistry is there things get done would you agree with that oh absolutely i think that personal chemistry is something that is perhaps not all the important

but very important i would just add that you have to work to develop chemistry and i think that. the soviet side both gorbachev and should work on that. for sure or does it was somewhat easier because he and show it off practically immediately. it was not as easy because they had very different backgrounds because they were i would say more different initially. shots were but they worked on it i think the great merit of those two men gorbachev and reagan is that they did so much despite the problems and obstacles does right some of the things that happened that were extremely unfortunate during that period such as the spice scandals such as

the military to military incidents you know overflights by. fighter bombers over navy ships this kind of thing unfortunately the military is still seems to like this kind of thing and the military don't want a war but they sometimes do things that are risky and those things happen during those six years and the great marriage i think principle of. bush is that they did not allow the process to be sidetracked to be sidelined to be broken by those unfortunate incidents that happened. still going back to personal chemistry because not allowing to break the process is also partially thanks to the personal chemistry that here that's when you can mean

a person who translates the words of another person the person who is in charge of relaying the. packaging of the reader right for us as we see. he is very brazen very unorthodox in his way of speaking a bomber was very academic like a harvard professor. bush jr was very folksy then obviously if a translator just translates that slur this out the ashes of the personality and the words do you. take time and start to actually translate the person rather than just the president of the country to relay. the image that he really carries from within to the person sitting in front well i don't know i did my best i did my best and i think they did their best

chemistry develop between them. i think it's they who worked on that we tried to help. i had excellent people on the other side all of us really were motivated to help i think that is the most important thing otherwise whether i did try to smooth the edges whether i did try to perhaps. make certain things smooth or make certain things more neutral and to emphasize other things frankly i don't know but i don't think so i think that i just tried to do my best professionally when moments happened when they were either annoyed with each other or upset as during the final minutes in reykjavik. well i

i was perhaps as upset as they were and i was part of it but i don't think that i tried to modify it to module it those things i don't think so but then you know to break the ice in situations like this humor always worked with race for gorbachev and sharing our men translating the humor in the right way is essential it's clear because i see so much goodness humor mistranslated chris putin has this very russian specific base humor and when it's translated into english it's just doesn't make any sense now you translate or be asheri who both had an amazing sense of humor and the other side obviously got the humor and laughed how hard is it to correctly translate the humor of the person you're translating all the choices basically between a literal translation between a word for word translation perhaps with a little explanation or finding something that would work in english

and sometimes you make that choice sometimes you risk and maybe comment a little bit to make it more understandable but i must say that both gorbachev and shevardnadze. were the more improvise ational way shevardnadze prepared for every conversation. very meticulously but both of them to can to count the cultural differences and they tried not to say too many things that would require a lot of cultural interpretation put in again i think that when she speaks here and when he negotiates. and i did interpret the other side during some of the negotiations with putin i think it's a little different i think is most. jokey when she talks to russians

then when she talks to. americans or europeans with their take. back will continue. legendary translator. we're talking about how not to lose interest place in the course of world politics. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race in this very dramatic development only really. i

don't see how that strategy will be successful. to sit down and talk. during the great depression. remember that it was most of the family were working. there wasn't it was bed much worse of drift of losing day but there was an expectation of the things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hope. there isn't today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy attack solo doubt engineer election manufacture consent and other principles according to. one set of rules for the rich. that's what happens when you put current. will switch

will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. and we're back with. legendary translator eight to me how about which of mr allen's wonder when all of his great leaders shake hands laughs formally at formal

jokes in front of the cameras smile. when it's obviously a mask it's a role that they play in front of the media now you being with behind closed doors are the masks off once they sit down to the negotiations table are they different or they keep playing this role for the most part you know in my experience the masks are off and they begin to be very human. they obviously make an effort. to explain they sometimes see the other side doesn't understand they think that the other side doesn't want to understand the can become annoyed they can become upset i saw sometimes tears in the reagan's eyes in reykjavik or example but i also saw them in very human situations when the media was present but they were extremely. natural and

not wearing masks during public moments so i would not agree that during public moments when they smile when they say things that they are playing a role that this is a mask not always some of it is a mask and that's necessary because you know the heads of state they are also diplomats and diplomats can be totally open but some of it is quite natural how do you know when they're playing and when they're real or is this what reagan especially it was impossible to know when it was genuine not the man was acting all the time he was an actor he was an actor absolutely but he was an actor i think not only because he was an actor during part of his career but because he was kind of theatrical perhaps. histrionic one might say by nature she waited she the first thing i saw that i concluded during the very first

moments when i first was interpreted in for shevardnadze and the reagan during the september one thousand and five meeting at the white house the very first meeting was that he was eager to please that he was eager to be liked that was part of his nature and not just because he was an actor so i know that he happened at least one swing you were the only translator in durham. during those top high level talks americans didn't take their translator maybe because they were scared that information would be read why does that happen i don't i think that it's happened in the few occasions i think that. they actually reagan and bush trusted the translator they just wanted to indicate. to the soviet leaders that this is additional sign that

there would be no leaks but absolutely they trusted their translators and there were i know that. washington is full of leaks. i also know that interpreters translators are never ever the source of those leaks because you know these things become known even the famous deep throat the leaker who destroyed president nixon we now know who that was there has never ever been any assumption or accusation. of any one of us of our profession to actually leaked something that's impossible because of the ethics of the job because of the ethic of the profession that i think practically all of us certainly those of us who work at the highest level very much

observe i just want to ask you a couple of few technical questions about your profession exam always wondered phrases and no one sat that if you hear an obvious mistake for instance a person says iraq instead of iran you just chance they are but how do you know if you for sure says iran and syria iran well it's intuition it's intuition that comes with experience that come with hours and hours of work. on the other hand you take a risk in simultaneous interpretation you cannot ask the person in consecutive interpretation when you sit near him yes it is possible if you have doubts. to ask but it's undesirable you don't want to do it in both cases in simultaneous interpretation the choice is either you're correct when you are one hundred percent sure or you say iraq and say that's what the speaker has

said even though you assume that probably human iran so this kind of thing people sometimes. misspeak yes. that happens. and then also there must be some difficulties understanding certain accents i'm sure not now accents are as accessible as american or british i don't you mention somewhere nigerian action for instance if you're sitting in central tennessee translating this top level meeting and you don't really understand what that person has sat what happens. normally you know i was lucky i mostly worked with people who spoke very good russian and very good english frankly though it was who also had it in the n.c.a.a. shouldn good good diction but yes it has happened on a few occasions more during my work at the un and subsequently at the council of

europe where there are some people who speak with a heavy accent and who. is not very good so what do you do for the most part you pause and you don't interpret where you don't understand hoping and that hope. works most of the time that it will become clear. it will become clear lead in most cases it does become clear later but you don't. sometimes you say what you think she meant but it's better to admit something and then to hope that things will become clearer. it hasn't happened to often for me that i took a risk but it has happened and then there's always. for instance sergey

lover who is brilliant in english i remember he was sitting down with clinton and obama in the translator was translating and then turns around and corrects the translator i mean this kind of embarrassing does that happen a lot when you're translating a person who is perfection in a language that you're translating to agree to the to the reader well sure i mean. deputy foreign minister laurence of. had excellent english. i've been corrected but. to my knowledge to my recollection not at that level so fortunately you know maybe they missed something that i mistranslated decided not to correct me but i haven't been corrected at that level i have been corrected in my career you know been in this profession for almost fifty years so i have been corrected for the most part i have been corrected

correctly but sometimes. people who correct. and they don't know what they're doing it also happened so when they are trying to correct you and you stand by your translation you have to say so and that happened to me too when they are correcting you and you think that perhaps it's basically a matter of taste. you might want to repeat what they said it's a matter of it's not very important but you don't quarrel with them but when you are sure then you have to stand by your translation that has happened to me fortunately not at the highest level because you don't want that kind of bickering happening well as one very few have in your arsenal of memory is something maybe who areas or something that one horribly wrong for instance i remember.

recently putin said about. the cheering it is a bright man meaning he's unorthodox he is someone you know that believes that mark as a person and then the american media translate as bright in terms of mastery of soccer which is a mistake yeah it is a mistake but if the interpreter had said colorful that would have been on the way but it's not the first thing about it would have been ok bright of course means he's smart and well will not work there in the south come mistranslations my crew shows translations or we will bury you that's when the translator all these you know mystery ideas from the language have you ever had that when you missed that idea that went wrong or hilariously it never happened i. let the guy down but i was sometimes quite happy. with the rendering that i gave that happened. if it was

repeated. in another conversation normally i would be ready i would be ready because i thought while he said this funny phrase. not all to discuss. and. my rendering initially was not quite good then i thought about it was there enduring now you would say well. two ways of doing it closer to the original you would say you can break people like a stick. but more idiomatic would be you can break the people's back. because that shows the sense of it that you should understand the the wrong things that have to be done carefully when you're dealing with the destinies of nations so there were moments when i felt but but there were also

moments when. i mean i i was surprised myself that i found a practically perfect rendering on the spot. and that's what makes the interpreter happy but you shouldn't be too happy because when you're too happy with the excellent rendering that you have come up with then you can lose concentration and the most important thing in simultaneous interpretation in translation is concentration. thank you so much for this wonderful interior wish it the last of luck thank you i had a good time because he was. busy

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pull forty one bodies of the people who were killed when a russian plane burst into flames during an emergency landing in moscow have now been recovered from the crash site among the victims of the two children and the flight attendant who died assisting passengers a spokesman for. the states is occurring and looking at three possible causes for the tragedy pilots are a systems malfunction and the weather.