well his new boss british defense secretary penny morden voted against that government to end this all comes after two previous s's went for allegedly breaking the law rather than leaking to journalists or sexually harassing them not the mordant is arguably too up on the lore she has been slammed for appearing to lie about european union access in law as for the e.u. bric said now threatens the breakup of the united kingdom scottish nationalists one another independence referendum an island may be reunited but did road to independence actually begin twenty years ago today when scotland and wales first held devolved elections joining me now is the father of evolution britain's former attorney general and former shadow defense minister lord morris lord morris welcome back to going underground before we get to well stephen lucian there i got to talk about our defense secretary gavin williamson and to raise a made a minority government leader sacking him in the most extreme way possible accusing him of credit being a traitor what was your take on it well i haven't read the letter and it seems in

the next sentence there's no credible alternative which i thought weakens the sentence. i find it astonishing. anybody has leaked from such a high powered committee. and. the claims that he should be prosecuted which obviously there may well be an offense here. the difficulty is in succeeding on a prosecution because no journalist worth his salt will reveal what he has been told or that he has been told my view is this the government should seek the advice of the attorney general who is in charge are responsible for the crown prosecution service he is independent as a prosecutor though he's a collective cabinets of responsibility in all the matters but as a prosecutor he's a dependent and they should consult with him and see whether it's a feasible pop proposition to prosecute can you remember at any time in post-war

british politics in lieu of this century that a cabinet minister could be sacked for such a thing. what i modified it's alleged to have happened and. there have been instances of cabinet ministers being sacked. as chancellor of his check a moment some expression to the journalist of the star athlete sacked him the following day i was a jumper flew over the soviet era but not on those grounds i remember john could. jump of who i was as shadow defense minister i was a defense minister a long long time ago i find the idea of anyone geeking from such a high powered committee so appalling as to be almost unbelievable because governor williams and denies absolutely all of this and this really is a defense ministry you might have met a journalist because williams does say he talked. about what was going on of the

meeting between the heads of five and six i suspect he may be one of the few. people present who admitted to talking to the journalist whether there is any other feds other than the fact he is said to have talked to a journalist and may have admitted talking to a journalist whether there is any other evidence i do not know it's twenty years today that the first well she lections took place but you now want to abolish the westminster drop of the secretary of state for wales the job you used to hold and one that you write about of course in this book yes of course why do you want abortion well there's no function now where i was actually of state and i was minister for everything you can think of. i accumulated responsibility for trade for industry for agriculture for the civil service. i was doing of

wales in wales i was the middest of all the estates i just thought was and between cardiff and london the present state only has a staff of about thirty. he has no responsibilities he's does the propagandist for the conservative party. he has no function whatsoever i'm sure he would deny that would you think he would deny what you think. cabinet. men should the bottom of the list of participants. flogging the conservative party which is not an easy task but he's got no executive functions yet if you could ask if what exactly do you do in the morning on planning on health on transport. we. missed electrification of the two. we never got it all you could have done to give

us the government his colleagues please may we have had no executive response ability and now when i travel to west wales because of the sponsibility is with westminster. i have to wait an hour for trade. to go. i mean that's the importance of the office i'm sure though that though i'm not tourism a sector state for wales they might say look what happened in northern ireland. quickly if something goes wrong in a devolved problem and one of the nations that make up the united kingdom power suddenly has to return to the secure state as it does in what we have now will leitch that possibility and i think it's it's not a practical politically there is no argument. against evolution will it go back to how you started the ball rolling as it were were and how you were first interested by harold wilson for the devolution process that has led to today from

nine hundred fifty three i worked on it very lonely job and very low dig cabinet when you had opposition from all sides and they varied between meetings and checkers and the opposition very did each one. of the prime minister led it would never have called school and eventually when i became attorney joe i was back of the cabinet committee. many years later and i had the privilege of handing the dummy act to the queen in cardiff to side in both languages setting up the assembly at the official state opening and ever since that time her majesty has attended the state openings in both cardiff. because all the opponents tony. ban roy jenkins dennis healy jim callaghan they're all gone by the way i should say though in the end you do recount all of that politicking in the in the wilson

government we now have recent papers that show that there was a fear that there was an attempt to kill prince charles is it messager can often call someone sixty by his letter the context of that wilson nationalist. element while you were working on the process would turn you into the father of the evolution i was at investiture there was a very very tiny proportion of the waves for the army i think it was called. which burning cottages at that time in wales but it was a very very small minority and there was no serious attempt to do anything significant the burning a few cottages and perhaps i don't know attempting to. put a bomb under the trade that i had trouble dog but it was. too poor chaps were killed in their enthusiasm against investiture well now this whole idea of

evolution is in in the news because it was the intention of the scottish nationalists to call the new referendum do you think you paved the way because of something that you hadn't foresee a situation like brics it for the possibility of an independent wales. i don't think any of. them is. but if the scots really want a. weather should have it to test the water i suspect that while you scotsman will not go along sticking to wales i mean there's been quite a lot of criticism of the labor leadership there for instance when article fifty was declared in the globe and scotland immediately said we'll take over some of those e.u. roles the welsh assembly went no nothing that can take it all. of

many wales doesn't seem to be taking many of it but certainly whereas say germany coburn in london is talking about free tuition fees no rental fees child care policy the devolved labor administration is not for generally coburn's policies at all in fact they can tell they've taken millions from aston martin from from amazon i mean is wales turning into this new liberal center in terms of a nation where britain is starting to move on from that but i think the welsh government i hold no brief for the welsh government. but they're pursuing their own poses. they've been for the whole of the period of devolution sometimes. coalition now because of the additional members it's very difficult to separate of this very difficult to get a signal. by any party so the chances are.

that there is a coalition and i've just got to finally ask you because it's also the anniversary of mrs thatcher telling the house of commons that there was no truth in the idea is that harold wilson who you give a lot of credit to for diva lucian no there was no. evidence of m i five in the way six and dirty tricks against the wilson government you tend to agree with mrs that's wrong and i would i think did have a i say they said my new book how to deal with the bad and the. undermining him and all sorts of people. i think. one of the few weaknesses of what i regard as a very great model of a great prime minister and a very good friend of mine thank you. after the break why owning an android or i phone may not be the sign of progress you think it is we speak of an all spiritual revival to both knew the government's professor. and his every system in life gable

we speak to a journalist and filmmaker who is called trip advisor paris fashion week out of the mainstream media both of them all coming on but you have going on the ground. what politicians do. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go to the press this is what before three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters of the. question. what is it calling the coin is magic internet the new type of digital currency

essential lies digital scarcity chancellor i'm bringing a second bailout for bank that's called that got us a lot for a reason to calling it civil disobedience a source of optimism because i can control my own financial destiny it's just a new way of coming to consensus it's a game changer in the human history this is columbus discovering a new world this paradigm shifting technology that transforms economics and finance in a heartbeat the apollo eleven landing on to the max and stacey. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the ball different clubs on one hand it is logical to sit in the home field. everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and the fresh perspective i'm used to surprising and i saw one on

t.v. . i'm going to talk about football not the or else you think i was going to do. by the way what is the punchline here. welcome back according to a new stage of the nation report social mobility how to raise a maze crisis that minority government in britain has more or less ceased with is there a way to change the distribution of economic advantage and redistribute the profits of multinational corporations joining me now from cambridge massachusetts in the us as world renowned philosopher and former minister in the brazilian lula and dilma governments professor but his new book the knowledge economy is out now robot and welcome to going underground so what is your understanding of the knowledge economy and why has it gone hand in hand with inequality specially in say developing nations nature nations. in every historical circumstance there is

a most advanced practice of production the most advanced practice of production we are now able to understand is the one that is closest to the imagination. it used to be conventional industry what we call for dished mass production and now it's something else that we call it the knowledge economy or the experimental economy or then you are coming and it is characterized by an intimate relation between science and production the activity of producing things comes to resemble more and more the activity of imagining things and the best for him come to be more like the best schools the knowledge economy has a series of potentially revolutionary characteristics but it doesn't reveal them fully in its present form because it remains confined to

fringe too insular vanguard that exclude the vast majority of businesses and their workers and the consequence of this insularity is on the one hand slowdown in economic growth and growth and productivity and on the other hand the aggravation of inequality now you know it it's most simplistic people are going to say to you you're using this phrase insula vanguard far from insula people have got i phones and android phones this vanguard has been democratized that's not true that that's a common misunderstanding so one misunderstanding is to associate the knowledge economy only with it answer manufacture i tech industry in fact it is present in every part of the occurrence. me including intellectually dense services and even

perception or scientific agriculture but every part as a friend and the other misunderstanding is to suppose that anyone who buys the products and services of the knowledge economy becomes part of it that also isn't true the knowledge economy is not just a collection of gadgets and the use of these gadgets it's a revolutionary way of organizing work and production for example among among its deeper characteristics that it has not fully developed and revealed because of its confinement are the i.d.'s so first of all the most universal constraint in economic life historically has been what we call diminishing marginal returns you commit an import or an innovation to the process of production the return to weight

initially increases then plateau it's and finally false why the deep reason for that is the episodic or discontinuous character of the new of the nation the knowledge economy holds the promise of sustaining a form of perpetual innovation that loosens or reverses the constraint of diminishing marginal returns a second characteristic is to bring together our imagination and production and promise a radical change in the relation of the worker to the machine everything that we've learned how to repeat we embody in a formula and then we. put the formula into the mechanical device the point of the machine is to do for us everything that we have learned how to repeat so that we can preserve our supreme resource our time for the not. yet

repeatable and then this combination of the machine and the antique machine the human be becomes immensely more powerful than either of them separately i third deeper characteristic of the knowledge economy is a revolution in the moral culture of production the earlier exams practices of production require that generalization of the low level of trashed among the participants and work and there is a command and control scheme it's like a traditional instant tree brigade the knowledge economy flourishes on the basis of a height. of the level of discretion and reciprocal trashed among all participants in production and one aspect of the knowledge economy of course is taxation and a lot of debate about why these big companies don't pay that much taxes perhaps it'll surprise some that you you say the v eighteen is is the future i don't know

whether because a big accounting firms at city area know let me explain so one of the major consequences of the knowledge economy is the aggravation of inequality because a chasm opens up between the xander and backward parts of production. and the traditional device for moderating inequality is compensatory and retrospective redistribution my taxes and by social spending so progressive taxation on one side and redistributive social entitlements. on the other side but if the inequality is overwhelming then this attempt to correct it after the fact is very inadequate so the first thing to understand the bag inequality is that the right way to attack inequality is to

change the arrangements that shape the original the fundamental distribution of economic and educational advantage and not simply to try and correct the inequality after the fact through this retrospective redistribution that doesn't mean that progressive taxation and social entitle mintz have no legitimate role they do but it's a subsidiary role now on that row we come to the other point in the short term what matters most for the impact on inequality of taxation and social spending is not how progressive the tax system is on the revenue raising side it's. what the aggregate level of the tax take is and how that tax take is spent i'm just going to ask one final question obviously with the brazilian

provenance you work with dilma and with lula do you think some of the inspiration for this book is a revolutionary book came from the favelas anyone who's been to favela or in a brazilian city has seen innovation and ingenuity well our country has at its most important attribute. a tremendous like talent it's a seeding cauldron a few many energy as the united states also with us and our historical tragedy has been to deny to the majority of our fellow citizens the instruments and the opportunities to turn this vitality into constructive action the great the image the theme of empowerment and the message is let's become bigger together but we can only become bigger together by innovating in the structure of society it's not enough to humanize and that's what the progressive is in the contemporary

world and in general done they had presented themselves as the sugar covers as the humanizes of the inevitable humanisation is not enough what we want is empowerment a shared empowerment. a larger life to which we can ascend together and the creation of a disseminated and deepen knowledge economy it's a singular opportunity for the advancement of that liberating project. thank you well what happens when the knowledge economy eats itself journalist and filmmaker who bottler who faked a top rated restaurant from a shed in his back garden trick trip advisor paris fashion week and mainstream media and explains how in a new book he joins me now from new york about the welcome do going underground i have to ask the success of the shed of course indulge the top restaurant in london i understand you're in new york now just to remind us about the shed in using

reviews on trip advisor you became number one restaurant yes so essentially i used to live in a garden shed in college like a south east london suburb and i decided to get it verified as a restaurant on trip advisor which i was able to do even though it never existed it was a false restaurant that over the base of six months from april two thousand and seventeen to december two thousand and seventeen i got it number one in the whole of london despite having never served dish and yet using false reviews growth hacking that kind of thing of course when you did your reveal and explain to mainstream media what the scam was i'm sure on looking back at the interviews you did you might have been thinking why did they seem so fearful and so keen to say you're a corner artist did you detect some kind of fear in mainstream media about what you done i think it's interesting i mean that doesn't stop with the book of art that i

mean are we always going to release the book originally on the twenty sixth of february then the twenty third of march and that's coming out in the twenty third of april and the book is actually been banned by the singaporean government not ban but they the had legal teams from the government saying you should be difficult you should be. kind of careful about publishing this here and the same in the cayman islands they said this is not kind of. in maybe you might get sued which i definitely don't want i would be surprised if it was banned in other places too soon maybe even russia. america i don't know is supposed to be subverting the structures of what it's was unable people to you know it's the book the up one percent don't want you to read essentially you can apply this to any this the tenets the philosophy behind it to any walk of life and banning it is always you what you probably want because it'll make the book do better arguably did you see why people called you the donald trump of trip advisor in the sense of the

insouciance it's a good point. yeah i mean i i think that yeah it's the first step i genuinely just a good way to live though you know not being completely defined by the outcome of what you do and just trying to make the enjoying your life enjoying it enjoying the day to day having fun i think that there's i think it's a good way to live and in terms of the washington post called me the time trip advisor people is that a lot of things when the shed came out you know you had as i said singaporean parliament used it to form new laws on fake news and then really redzepi runs no more which is the you know most famous restaurant can because it was a critique of online reviewing coach or food or being coach i mean people said a lot of things but you know this is kind of the philosophy behind the book but on the shed the book is as you say optimistic but you think it has fertile ground is an audience because there is a feeling post twenty zero eight crash that who do win don't deserve it and those

you lose end up at food banks let alone the restaurants you show how to fake a difficult sort of juncture. and then the people could especially at this moment in time do with kind of us trying to escape the. what they're bound to every day in their lives and to try and do some type of cells out there and actually start enjoying themselves is got to be a good thing the problem is that and it happened with the shared indulge you did actually have to meet people and what about the what about the dimension of class here if you'd been. someone say laid off from many fracturing in britain from a working class background white working in your fifty's would it have been difficult to persuade the kind of point below in the elite that you indeed would the guy who had the best restaurant in. deathly have

a sense of privilege anyway but i'm not you know on the youngest of six didn't go to university i grew up in a tiny house and we all shared bedrooms so i really think part of that. i wouldn't call myself part of con of as most a lot of journalists. and people are now unfortunately that's like in terms of class it's quite. there's not much representation in terms of working class people . and i yeah i mean i think that having the ability to it's of just. both really invaluable whole and i think. that that wouldn't just be exclusive to people who come from a privileged background but to anybody about the thank you and how to be a way to number one is out now available through web publications and that's if the show will be back on wednesday to speak we can only advise a u.k.

shot of charles the john mcdonnell about creating a britain where people no longer stalled until then keep in touch by social media so when's the. next guy's a financial survival guide stacey let's learn a salad fill out let's say i'm a strike at. the fight. thank you for. the story that's right. debt slavery. dream greed to prison which old must remember there was most of the family were unemployed. and it wasn't it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but

there was an expectation that things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america where shape my the ten principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy attack solo. engineer elections manufacture consent and other principle holds according to no on. one set of rules for the rich opposite set of rules for. that's what happens when you put her into the. sector of will switch will is. dedicated to increasing power for chills just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization the america. join me every thursday on the elec simon short and i'll be speaking to guest of the

world of politics school business i'm showbusiness i'll see you that. there remains of all forty one people killed after a russian plane burst into flames during an emergency landing in moscow have now been recovered from the crash site a twelve year old girl and a flight attendant who died helping passengers escape the inferno are among the victims investigators are currently looking at possible causes of the tragedy pilot error system of function and bad weather. all for this hour israel reportedly agrees to a truce with palestinian militant group hamas after a weekend of deadly x. .