the remains of all forty one people killed after a russian plane burst into flames during an emergency landing in moscow now been recovered from the crash site twelve year old girl and the flight attendant who died helping passengers escape the inferno are among the victims investigators are currently looking at three possible causes of the tragedy pilot error system malfunction and bad weather. we focus on the real politics russia's foreign minister sergey lavrov holds talks with the u.s. secretary of state mike pompei are saying that he has found no support for any

military intervention into venezuela including among the american officials. and israel reportedly agrees to a truce with a palestinian militant group hamas after a weekend of deadly exchanges which seem more than twenty palestinians employs whaley's killed in large scale airstrikes and missile attacks. president r.t. dot com for more on these latest headlines coming up sophie and co gets unique in science from a man who interpreted for top soviet leaders during the cold war still.

welcome to sofia. today i talk to a man in. the history in the making so international diplomacy at its highest level and exclusive meetings between the world's most powerful man. who is the legendary translator of former soviet leader mikhail gorbachev talks to me about his most thrilling and exciting experiences when the fate of nations wrists on a leader's words and a misunderstanding could trigger disaster the odds of translation becomes crucial in global affairs what does that translate to witness behind closed doors during one on one negotiations how do translators who showed a world leaders cope with the risk of a mistake and do they also have their own impact on global decisions. it is so great to have you on our program welcome thank you so i want to talk about

you in this and she put the most part when i go back a little bit when you first started working on the level of us so it's did it scare you that you're translating reagan i mean like you were literally translating the words of the most powerful man in the world did it change you at that moment. i don't think i was scared frankly i don't think that if you're scared of responsibility you want to do this kind of work. it is interesting that this was the first time that simultaneous interpretation was used rather than consecutive interpretation when you first listen to the speaker and in target what he has said simultaneous interpretation was first tried in helsinki at

the high level in helsinki during the meeting of george shultz and one shevardnadze in the summer of nineteen eighty five years and years ago but now it has become rather common practice at that time it was very new i was thrilled i was fascinated not afraid not scared but certainly i felt a responsibility to say you were on board the. beginning of the end of the cold war started so this is home for us as you are important where you allowed to have a political position where you are allowed to have a say in this things. in part that depends on the position that you have in the foreign ministry initially was a member of the department of translation and interpretation and it was only later in early one nine hundred eighty seven that i was transferred to the

usa desk to the department of us a and canada ministry of foreign affairs in that position i was involved in the preparations both for ministerial meetings and the summits and in that position i dast have maybe much influence but they could contribute but the most important moments are when the principals the foreign minister or the president actually ask your opinion when that happens you are on your own and you're not just an interpreter you actually have to say what you think and to me with my very limited political prior experience that was not easy but that happened because i know they were her intimate with gorbachev and she were nods and know that cherie nazi is my grandfather and i know about gorbachev because you're his advisor up to this day how did you earn their trust

how does that happen how does that happen the initial process is earning the trust as a professional as an interpreter but then inevitably i work with both of them for six years and never doubly you become closer and either trust not only you as a professional. translator interpreter but also they begin to trust your opinion because they know that you have been with them through a great deal i think it started in the reykjavik with gorbachev at about the same time. and they did ask for my opinion sometimes difficult moments. during the whole process of ending the cold war it was not actually a smooth and easy process as many people now think it was

a process that had its pitfalls obstacles difficult moments. miss misunderstandings of course when understanding seemed to be breaking. i think at that time they asked my opinion just because i was closest to them physically. so you're obviously not only translating it right with that but also emotionally and intellectually involved in a process and it was a very difficult process like you pointed out it wasn't all smooth a lot of things were breaking into play together it was like a work of a jeweller ritual rainmaker and somehow it worked the cold war and it. before we get back to you in your profession as this one out ask you looking back now and what's happening between us and russia this it does away.

while maybe not does only because when one has the prior experience of working with. the presidents at the summit level one doesn't the stand that there are and flowed that there are moments story moments that sometimes last more than a moment sometimes last long. and look like everything is collapsing but you know she's story clearly that the moments of the past. are never ruined totally i think that it is a difficult moment the relationship is dismal that would be my word but it's not hopeless and i think that one day a real dialogue will resume and i wish well to those people who

will be resuming their dialogue and who will help them be seen in that dialogue you have translated all these great leaders how important is the personal chemistry between two man. i mean i can say gorbachev and reagan baker and sharon nonsectarian love for us even if you're ideologically on different sides of the personal chemistry is there things get done would you agree with that oh absolutely i think that personal chemistry is something that is perhaps not all the important but very important i would just add that you have to work to develop chemistry and i think that. the soviet side both gorbachev and should work on that. for sure or does it was somewhat easier because he hit it off practically immediately. reagan it was

not as easy because they had very different background because they were i would say more different initially than shevardnadze and shots were but they worked on it and i think the great merit of those two men gorbachev and reagan is that they did so much despite the problems and obstacles this. right some of the things that happened that were extremely unfortunate during that period such as the spice scandals such as the military to military incidents you know overflights by. fighter bombers over navy ships this kind of thing unfortunately the military still seems to like this kind of thing and the military don't want a war but they sometimes do things that are risky and those things happened during

those six years and the great merit i think principle of. bush is that they did not allow the process to be sidetracked to be sidelined to be broken by those unfortunate incidents that happened. still going back to personal chemistry because not allowing to break the process is also partially thanks to the personal chemistry here that's when you can mean a person who translates the words of another person the person who is in charge of relaying the. packaging of the leader right for us as we see trump he is very brazen very unorthodox in his way of speaking a bomber was very academic like a harvard professor. bush jr was very folksy then obviously

if a translator just translates that slur this out the adjective of the personality and the words do you. take time and start to actually translate that person rather than just the president of the country to relay. the image that he really carries from within to the person sitting in front well i don't know i did my best i did my best i think they did their best chemistry develop between them. i think it's they who worked on it we tried to help. i had excellent people on the other side all of us really were motivated to help i think that is the most important thing otherwise whether i did try to smooth

the edges whether i did try to perhaps. make certain things smooth or make certain things more neutral and to emphasize other things frankly i don't know but i don't think so i think that i just tried to do my best professionally when moments happened when they were either annoyed with each other or upset as during the final minutes in reykjavik. well i i was perhaps as upset as they were and i was part of it and i don't think that i tried to modify it to module it those things i don't think so but then you know to break the ice in situations like this humor always worked well for gorbachev and sharing our men translating the humor in the right way is essential is clear because i see so much goodness humor mistranslated chris putin has this very

russian specific base humor and when it's translated into english it's just doesn't make any sense now you translate for me and cherie who both had an amazing sense of humor and the other side obviously got the humor and laughter how hard is it to correctly translate the humor of the person you're translating all the choices basically between a literal translation between a word for word translation perhaps with a little explanation or finding something in there that would work in english and sometimes you make the choice sometimes you risk and maybe comment a little bit to make it more understandable but i must say that both shevardnadze. were the more improvise ational way shevardnadze prepared for every conversation.

very meticulously but both of them too can to count the cultural differences and they tried not to say too many things that would require a lot of cultural interpretation put in again i think that when she speaks here and when he negotiates. and i did interpret the other side during some of the negotiations with putin i think it's a little different i think is most. he. talks to russians when she talks to. or europeans with their take. legendary translator. we're talking about how not to lose interest the course of world politics.

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on. the mountains of waste only grow heigho. and we're back with. legendary translator eight to me how about which of mr allen's wonder when all is great leaders shake hands laughs formally at formal jokes in front of the cameras smile. when it's obviously a mask it's

a role that they play in front of the media now you being with them behind closed doors are the masks off once they sit down to the negotiation table are they different or they keep playing this role for the most part you know in my experience the masks are off and they begin to be very human. they obviously make an effort. to explain they sometimes see the other side doesn't understand they think that the other side doesn't want to understand he can become annoyed they can become upset i saw sometimes tears in the reagans eyes in reykjavik where example but i also saw them in very human situations when the media was present but they were extremely natural and not wearing masks during public moments so i would not agree that

during public moments when they smile when they say things that they are playing a role that this is a mask not always some of it is a mask and that's necessary because you know the heads of state they are also diplomats and diplomats can be totally open but some of it is quite natural how do you know when they're playing and when their real crisis with reagan especially it was impossible to know when it was genuine not the man was acting all the time he was an actor he was an actor absolutely. but he was an actor i think not only because he was an actor during part of his career but because he was kind of theatrical perhaps. histrionic one might say by nature she waited she the first thing i saw that i concluded during the very first moments when i first was interpreter in for shevardnadze and the reagan during the

september one thousand and five meeting at the white house the very first meeting was that he was eager to please that he was eager to be liked that was part of his nature and not just because he was an actor so i know that he happened at least one swing you were the only translator in the room. during those top high level talks americans didn't take their translator maybe because they were scared that information would be read why does that happen i don't i think that it happened on the few occasions i think that. they actually reagan and bush trusted the translator they just wanted to indicate to the soviet leaders that this is. additional sign that there would be no leaks but absolutely they trust the translators and there were

i know that. washington is full of leaks but i also know that interpreters translators are never ever the source of those leaks because you know these things become known even the famous deep throat the leaker who destroyed president nixon we now know who that was there has never ever been any assumption or accusation. anyone of us of our profession and definitely something that's. impossible because of the ethic of the job because of the ethic of the profession that i think practically all of us certainly those of us who work at the high level very much observed i just want to ask you a couple of few technical questions about your profession exam always wondered

francis and no one sat that if you hear an obvious mistake for instance a person says iraq instead of iran you just translated but how do you know if you for sure says iran and syria iraq well it's intuition it's intuition that comes with experience that come with hours and hours of work. on the other hand you take a risk in simultaneous interpretation you cannot ask the person in consecutive interpretation when you sit near him yes it is possible if you have doubts. to ask but it's undesirable you don't want to do it in both cases in simultaneous interpretation the choice is either you're correct when you are one hundred percent sure or you say iraq and say that's what the speaker has said even though you assume that probably human iran so

this kind of thing people sometimes. misspeak yes it happens. and then also there must be some difficulties understanding certain actions i'm sure not not all accidents are as accessible as american or british i don't you mention somewhere nigerian action for instance if you're sitting in samuel tennessee translating this top level meeting and you don't really understand what that person has sat what happens. and normally. you know i was lucky i mostly worked with people who spoke very good russian and very good english frankly and so it was who also had it in and see a shouldn good good diction but. yes it has happened on a few occasions. during my work at the un and subsequently at the council of europe where there are some people who speak with

a heavy accent and who. is not very good so what do you do for the most part you pause and you don't interpret where you don't understand hoping and that hope works most of the time that it will become clear. it will become clear lead in most cases it does become clear later but you don't. sometimes you say what you think hugh she meant. but it's better to admit something and then to hope that things will become clearer. it hasn't happened to often for me that i took a risk but it has happened and then there are always. for instance sarah gay lover who is brilliant in english i remember he was sitting down with clinton and

obama in the translator was translating and then turns around and corrects the translator i mean this kind of embarrassing does that happen a lot when you're translating a person who is perfection in a language that you're translating to the to the to their reader well sure i mean. deputy foreign minister laurence of. had excellent english. i've been corrected but. to my knowledge to my recollection not at that level so fortunately you know maybe they missed something that i missed translated and decided not to correct me but i haven't been corrected at that level i have been corrected in my career you know been in this profession for almost fifty years so i have been corrected for the most part i have been corrected correctly but sometimes. people who are correct.

and they don't know what they're doing it also happened so when they are trying to correct you and you stand by your translation you have to say so and that happened to me too when they are correcting you and you think that perhaps it's basically a matter of taste. you might want to repeat what they said it's a matter of it's not very important but you don't quarrel with them but when you are sure then you have to stand by your translation that has happened to me fortunately not at the highest level because you don't want that kind of bickering happening well as one very few have in your arsenal of memories something maybe who areas or something that one horribly wrong for instance i remember just recently putin said about. the cheering he's a bright man meaning that he's unorthodox he's someone you know that believes in

mark as a person and then the american media translate as bright in terms of master of soccer which is a mistake yeah it is a mistake but if the interpreter had said colorful that would have been on the way but the. thing about it would have been ok bright of course means he's smart and will will not work there and also come mistranslations like crew shows translations are we will bury you that's when the translator all the mystic ideas from the language have you ever had that when you missed that idea that went wrong or horary asli it never happened. let the guy down but i was sometimes quite happy. with the rendering that i gave that happened. if it was repeated. in another conversation normally i would be ready i would be ready because i thought

while he said this funny phrase. it's not all to discuss. and. my rendering initially was not quite good and i thought about it when they were entering now you would say well. two ways of doing it closer to the original you would say you can break people like a stick. but more idiomatic would be you can break the people's back because that shows the sense of it that you should understand the the things that have to be done carefully when you're dealing with the destinies of nations so there were moments when i felt but but there were also moments when. i mean i i was

surprised myself that i found a practically perfect rendering on the spot. and that's what makes the interpreter happy but you shouldn't be too happy because when you're too happy of the excellent rendering that you have come up with then you can lose concentration and the most important thing in simultaneous interpretation in translation is concentration. thank you so much for this wonderful interior wish it the last of a lot thank you i had a good time because last. holiday

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