professor of international ations at the university of. ok we are back cross talking in moments peter and guests are standing by to join me in 30 though for all the latest global news updates on their visit. hello and welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle manufacturing narratives what really happened in syria what is really happening in iran also is the u.k. becoming ungovernable.

across talking some real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow and he's a professor at the higher school of economics as well as author of the case of western civilization and resurgence of brush and in london we crossed a charles schumer age he is a security analyst and a former u.k. army and counterterrorism intelligence officer or a german cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate charles let me go to you 1st and learn your that you flagged this story for me i'm going to read the headline from in our story on the website leaked o.p.c. w memo cast doubt on watchdogs. chemical attack conclusions in its in inverted commas their chemical attack i've always said alleged because the evidence was never forthcoming now it looks like a leak is showing that those of us that said alleged were right all along go ahead charles. yes you're right remember even in the immediate aftermath of the do a chemical attack alleged chemical attack in march 2018 in which dozens of people

civilians were 40 to have been killed graphic photos you remember video shots especially of many children who suffered apparent catastrophic deaths and i think as much doubt that people did actually die systems how they died and who was responsible that was the issue when you remember that the white house mates as with all of these alleged atrocities was there producing video that was then used as evidence by the u.k. and the us remember the u.k. actually founded the white helmets the u.k. the u.s. and others in the west funding the organization purported rescuers who produced endless propaganda. against assad i think they they hide that that will actually do try and hide it against assad but nonetheless they. produced all of this video alleging this attack and as a result of that the west said that assad had again used chemical weapons i'm saying that they said that he again used it because again it's disputed whether he

used them in any of these circumstances and. of course i should say of course that that alleged attack was then used as the pretext for britain france and the u.s. actually mounting strikes attacking another country i think by most observers unlawfully there was no security council resolution supporting those attacks there was no need for self-defense and so on because france america and the u.k. of course went under threat any time those attacks took place and then of course. organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons international chemical weapons watchdog was assigned to investigate that attack and note that the attack from the west britain american france went in well before right that investigation was even launched so the investigation concluded relatively recently and found that in its view a chemical attack. it taken place but it didn't ascribe blame but what it did do was that it said that if you looked in a small print there were

a number of indicators i think a lot of people. perhaps a ground level investigator level scientist level as opposed to the senior management political level actually unhappy with the results of the investigation and i say that because there are many inconsistences within the report and it's almost as if certain facts have been smuggled in so for example the white house it's videos included children dead children it would seem who had foam. seem to be fighting from the mouth and nose which would be an indication that a nerve agent had been used and of course the i.p.c.c. found no trace of nerve agent haven't been used despite what the western media at the time much of it and the u.s. government claimed and. port for example itself it concluded that it didn't appear that this foam was a bodily secretion in other words the subtext of that was it's placed sort of the exit stage we also had evidence before that the hospital scenes were staged a p.p.c.

producer said to his evidence was that those scenes had been staged and again in the port itself it was said that the people appearing in some of those videos appeared to be not ill in other words again it's ok to lead to an alliance it's interesting charles to the report that you're talking about there were no authors which is very odd because they would usually put their names on it there it shows that there are members over there this organization that are not confident with their findings let me go over to glen here but we see the same thing going on with the rand i mean when you know this is a manufactured narrative we had a look at there's strong evidence now that there was a staged event in duma but there is another staging of event going on right now many a faction in a conflict with iran apparently if you go to western mainstream media or random. threatening america. from there well it's a very strange. opposition to this view in the media because well just quickly

touching on the. o.p.c. w. day in syria. this leak has now been confirmed to be correct as i'm being denied by the open so. a lot of problematic issues for one we're going back down the same path again we did in 2003 that is. using manufactured evidence in order to in this case they stage attack and we find that the c.w. actually. had the not deleted by hidden certain parts of the investigations under pressure from the united states and last lee and when all of this is discovered there's nothing in the media so i think for us to see something similar to see the media push back great against going on there or to i wouldn't i think that would be very optimistic you know you know charles back in london i remember after no weapons of mass destruction were found in iraq media outlets

to the person said we'll never let this happen again we made mistakes we should have been more. judge mental we should have been more skeptical speed up to 2019 i guess they haven't learned anything there's no learning curve here they're just still not prefers for power go ahead charles. ph if you don't let me just in one split 2nd sentence mentioned bring you up to speed with the team issue what's happened of course in the last week is that it's been revealed to actually an insider a whistleblower if you like within a year or at least one has actually gone to an independent body that is looking at this matter it didn't go to the mainstream media that person went to an independent body with the fact that there was a document an expert's report and engineers experts report exactly around that in all probability that this chemical attack was staged an important part of this is of course. you didn't mention that report and you can imagine if that had been

a court case or something like this and then it was revealed that a prosecution or the police had withheld evidence like that the case would be thrown out there would be some kind of inquiry now what's significant here and in relation to the iran issue and iraq issue to mention is once again and again it's already been mentioned by york by a friend in moscow there with you that actually the mainstream media has kept absolute silence on this so in other words and less somebody reads r.t. or unless somebody is active on twitter and so on british an american public will not actually know about this crucial development that almost led to britain france and america that public's been told that we had no option but self the way the mainstream media absolutely uncritically parroted u.s. u.k. government lines that this was a democratic civil rights and human rights loving revolution that was overthrowing a vicious dictator and therefore we had no option to support this is a humanitarian gesture when in fact those rebels that we supported where the

absolute opposite of it was claimed but in general but charles a sad thing here let me switch back over to the sad thing is that when these hoaxes and false flag operations are revealed you're not going to find it readily in the media you'd have to look for it but there's no consequences for the people that perpetrate this they seem to get kicked up stairs john bolton one of the architects of the illegal war. against iraq is at the white house the highest foreign policy position in the united states government no consequences for not only bad behavior but illegal and immoral behavior glenn same in this country with the russian hoax if you know they find the determined to have been the collusion but we discussed it on this show what's going to happen now nothing happened they still talk about the russian interference in the election and you know the dubious relationship between trump and put in you know again for this country can go even further back if you remember the georgia 2008. military intervention in which essentially the western

media parroted everything that saakashvili said and then you have this independent the in this to get actually who started the war everything else and we but then we still talk about it we still talk about the western about the russian aggression the russian invasion so it's not like it never happened. and we're almost out of time in this part of the program charles it seems to me that the bolton pompei o in the elements of the deep state in the us are talking themselves into a war with iran which your read. yes exactly i mean you are going to be sadly one could say you've got trump in the middle of all it's the supposed president of the united states and the elected president the united states tweeting that there doesn't want to be a war with iran tweeting that there's no plans to mount any kind of operations tweeting that has to do is applied by its nuclear promises which of course

absolutely everybody except israel and the united states has admitted and he's claiming actually that have stood by their promises and so you got to this position again and again which you know you and i and many others peter of mentioned long before trumps inauguration that it would be one long battle between him and what we can call the deep state but he has surrounded himself with advisors and ministers who are actually representing that the state and its interests and of course they are constantly pushing for activities for example this confrontation with iran which many a point course of pointing out is an independent interests of the american people who might be in the best interests of some other states which tend to be supported by those that put in these positions of power and so when people say trump hasn't cleared the swamp then of course talking about his own people are surrounding him the boltons the pencils the pump and so on who are driving to suggest along with of course countries such as israel saudi arabia who have everything to gain from conflict charlie charlie manufacturing a conference where we were on this note here but it never works out the way they

expect the law of unintended consequences are in play here are we're going to go to a short thanks for being with us here as we go to a short break now and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news today with our team. this in petersburg international economic forum is a uni. today's business world. over the last 21 years the forum has become a leading global platform for discussing the key economic issues facing russia emerging markets and the world thousands of business community members attend the forum to address today's vital issues. special forum coverage on r.t.

. lake says and see it forms part of a high altitude nature reserve. it's one of the famous teetotal in indonesia's principle which away starts its journey. but the gulf can be sundown all the way to the top to bottom i got a septic an ox. it runs 300 kilometers from source to mouth and there are over $200.00 industrial facilities ranged along its bangs. i'm out on your muscle. but. you do 3 things. i have so much get out of them and get the. room here again screw the 4000 rice fields

and supplies drinking water to 25000000 people. that the employee gets up the night about to so many of us about us some have to call our economy. you know world of big part of the new lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

welcome back to crossfire who are of things to consider and peter lavelle to amount of discussing some real moves. ok now we're joined by alexander macarius in london he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com let me go ok before this program was actually yesterday i was we were talking about your appearance on this program today and you said just a phrase that caught my ear you told me that the u.k. is becoming ungovernable because of this whole eggs briggs it process here bring us up to speed on what's going on with this dreadful dreadful story brags that go ahead alex yes i think it's actually very easy to understand in some ways i mean what happened was that in 2016 there was a referendum in britain a decisive majority of people voted to leave the

e european union and when i say dishonest of mine in a majority a very big majority in england outside london england being the core territory of the united kingdom what has happened since then is that most and remains of the european union despite that vote though an incredibly complicated political games in the house of commons in which it basically made that exit very difficult if not impossible the government has not negotiated a effectively to achieve that leaving the european union and the opposition the labor opposition has not championed the decision to leave so the result is that the credibility of both that the 2 major parties the conservative party and the labor party is collapsing. we are seeing in the

forthcoming you were piano lections that only about 16 percent of the population of the electorate are going to vote labor only about 9 percent are going to vote conservative that's what you've seen in polls the gests of the great 6 party which has been formed in a great hurry to push it rex it is now leading the polls with something like 35 ringback percent of the vote but what has even more importantly the 2 big parties the labor party and the conservative party which all call it the political system in britain they are the parties that alternate and which government the country are themselves showing signs of clear disintegration so the conservative government hasn't implemented any policies for months there is no program for government in war the prime minister has lost all credibility the last subject

was discussed in the house of commons which had nothing to do with grex it was about circus's. what actually happened i'm not in any sort of stand on the ira i would argue that briggs it is a circus here glenn let me do what is very interesting with alexander mackerras said because you know when we look at the upcoming european elections you know the labor and the conservatives or expected to do very poorly but if we look at the european elections traditional parties of the left and right are also going to. experience the same fate i mean it took briggs it for the radical center to collapse but it seems like a trend even with countries that are not experienced a good experience in such political turmoil turmoil as the u.k. you know you say this are cross europe salvina we're been excellent example here seems to be taking leadership in this in the upcoming. parliamentary elections but i would note the reason why. for us has been so successful this exactly because

he. has been able to say something substantial to say you know. an apologetic say we will take in the deal and leave because for both the tories and labor they're both been very ambiguous they're well they're both trying to water down breaks it or just overturn a referendum altogether but i think support to see how this all happened because for immediately after the referendum the parliament tried to take back decision making by making this false division between heartbreaks it and sort of breaks it but as we remember both sides said exactly the same thing during the referendum oh it means leaving the customs union kill leaving the single market but afterwards they said no no we're now we have to decide soft bricks versus bricks at another was a way for parliament to take back the making and immediately said you know it remade the language saying that this essentially is you know off the cliff edge this is breaking out of what you call it it's a crushing out anyone who called for actually leaving the way the referendum debate

had said we're called you know radicals and that's why we're calling this program you know narratives manufactured narratives because you actually demonstrating the these. euphemistic. appeals to emotion instead of looking at really policy itself but also this is where for us came back in the system just starting a party from scratch because both parties made part of something broken down to both of us started to. get watered down or overturned or a friend them then comes for us and saying listen haven't start a new party of last week and let's let's leave the e.u. no deal is fine and effectively becomes the 2nd referendum that you go and buy a very large margin they're voting in favor of him and he's doing what the politicians are saying will be insane this irrational act of simply leaving the e.u. without a deal so it's a very he's a huge disruptor. let me go back to. turner in london why do some

a still have her job well very good question i mean she has supposedly greet that if her a deal where she's going to put forward the 4th diary for. the board i don't know where they are shamed and whether she do when she's starting that the british public has a starker now up with a call stark or what not she has done i mean 1st of all i mean if she if it if it fails she says that she will provide a timetable looks like that. the problem is her staying on and putting forward this deal which everybody is rejecting what he's doing is he's paralyzing the political system and he's radicalizing the country because people who voted for brics it say this is unacceptable to us because it keeps is connected to the european union in ways we don't want and people who oppose brics it was still a substantial number come and say this isn't what we wanted to or we want to remain

in the european union so what those parts of the population are becoming more and more angry and at the same time not true for art is a very skillful politician and his party has been a runaway success but it needs to be said very clearly that he cannot govern if the 2 main parties collapse the brics it party does not have the administrative and technocratic background that is needed in a country like britain to take over the government of britain nor do any of the other opposition parties that we hear about not even the liberal democrats who are an old and well established party so in a situation where the country is becoming more and more angry on both sides where the government that exists at the moment is a divine did and discredited with a prime example. mr who both won't go and when to take the process forward where

the labor party is also becoming discredited and is now deeply divided it is knocking extremely difficult to see who can take this thing forward and actually provide groups them with and affective government other that is an unprecedented situation in britain. yes you know glenn it seems to me that from the perspective of brussels they are sitting back in eating the popcorn because this sends a message to any other member of the european union don't do with the u.k. has done state in line. i think as a result of this will be more centralization in the european union now decentralization going in there with this was one of the 1st warnings after a from muswell that there were this is incentives for both brussels berlin that

would put at the forefront or to make sure that this would not be successful. because there's a special evil or anything but simply because if brics it was. wildly successful others would follow so. they want this to be just a one off and not precedent yeah obviously or orbis case would of course be if they never left at all decided to do this 2nd referendum and for a while now it seems like this is what britain has been moving towards this if you took no deal off the table and told that you either will take any deal or give us or so obviously in such a situation you've got to have. you're going to have a problem in the political system and i think it's in this vacuum. people like for us to come up with this brics a party which works on the very quickly is not really fit to govern it they don't even have a manifesto they just had a catch in there and register it and suddenly they take leadership he's going to go

back to london i mean we did it seems to me that now xander that britain is being ruled by emotion right now and not politics and policy it that's very dangerous because as you said there's a lot of tempers. that are are flying off the handle here and apparently outside of being angry no one has a way forward go ahead in london well i don't know what he has to wait for. and though the way forward it was into my mind always clearly there that was after the 2016 referendum to work purposefully to carry out the effect of that referendum and hoochie grex it they had 3 years to do it but they didn't do it they didn't do it because some people in britain refused to accept the outcome of the referendum and want to remain one the referendum all over again that's what this call for a 2nd referendum is not really a 2nd referendum it is

a we were running on the 1st referendum in order to get a different outcome which will only if it ever happens and good people here in righton even more and there's never been a clear agenda a clear program on the part of anybody. even some of the walk wrote wrecks of people in the conservative party to actually implement this thing so the result here is that we have this situation of chaos in the center of power a sense of alienation increasing alienation on the part of many people who say to themselves well we vote we made very clear what we wanted and our political leaders who we elect in a system that is democratic are not paying any attention to us so we have this alienation and at the same time we don't have anybody strong enough and clear

enough who not just has the program for it to carry out wrecks it i mean. i'm going to go they are going to jump in the river and out of time but alex it's certainly this is not a good day for democracy in the u.k. and that's where the anger is coming from that's all the time we have many thanks to my guest here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember trust of course. this is a story about what happens after a stray bullet kills a young girl in the street. what happens to her family a daughter is in florida. no mother daughter is buried in a cemetery it really messes with your head what happens to the community the public

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in sweden seeking a arrest warrant for julian assange shafter really opening a rape investigation setting the stage for a possible extradition dispute with the u.s. also ahead on the program this sorry. leaked document raises questions about the global chemical weapons watchdogs assessment of. observations of the scene of the 2 locations suggests that there is a higher probability. that those 2 locations rather than being delivered from aircraft. coalition government. corruption.