can you state boards or libya or can the international community put aside differences for the sake of restoring peace and order to the beleaguered country. dr mustafa shah gore the former deputy prime minister of libya welcome to the show it's great to have you with us once again. thank you for having me so i have to our hasn't been able to break through police to fam so far but there is no sign of retreat and even called on his troops to battle harder during the ongoing month of ramadan he you've been saying that he will not be able to take over tripoli regardless of all the foreign support he enjoys what makes you think that. i mean i mean clearly 1st of all i mean this this attack on tripoli it is really it is a crime against the libyan people and it is done only 41 degrees in is for mr hafter to take over the country to to rule the country so it is done for the person an interest and of course i mean it is has been going on now for 5 weeks

and he did not move any further than when he started and because clearly the people in tripoli they don't want to have to take over there that their city they will are defending their city they are not allowing this the screw the criminal to come in and do a lot is what he could support because we know i mean he spent 40 years in bin ghazi fighting the smaller group of people there with all the support he got from all his allies so this is again the same thing the problem is that innocent people in in in to believe in libya both from tripoli and also from the troops who they came with have told they are dying for no reason but for the personal interest and this is really the reality of the of the issue. so this war can continue for a long time but he got this what support he might get because you have about one

and a half 1000000 people living in the city of tripoli. and no really they're being bombed day and night innocent people are dying for no reason and this is clearly is a nonsense and has lost on that but he has have to has a lot of support from the united arab emirates egypt saudi and i'm telling dries out he will certainly not give in libya now bogged down into another year as long tug of war. oh it can be it can be a can be a war for a long time and also the same time of course as you said that makes it he gets all the support from all these countries plus of course the friends and also some support from from russia. and all the support is really the only result coming out from this is more libyan people are dying both those who they are the finger tripoli and those who they are attacking to believe because both these are libyans and those who they are supporting cuffe that they have they don't care about the

beer they don't care about the stability of libya the only thing the cure is about their own agendas. and so we might be bugged here for a long time can be really a civil war that continues for 4 months time so so there is no chance for mr have to take over tripoli i mean that's will not happen and he tore a need to understand that and his allies they should stop supporting him and he promised them that enduring to be will take no time from him it will be just a few days day or 2 at the most notes it has been 5 weeks and he still exactly the same place who would he just i want to talk about that that the international reaction because the united nations and the e.u. and nato are all calling for a cessation of hostilities in libya but not of them have openly denounce haft are why does international community for the most part see haile for have to are as a valuable asset some countries in the west they see him as

a message because really they would love to see a country ruled by a dictator so they can get whatever they want from him and of course at the beginning he convince them i mean all right though that his allies now becoming god say otoh he did this the foreign minister of the united arab emirates he said honey for half the did not take their permission to attack tripoli so clearly him and his allies know the realizing 1st of all that he does not have the power that he promised them that he does have he cannot take tripoli in the short time that he promised them to do so right now clearly in the coming weeks we're going to see a lot of his allies going to back up and probably will start from supporting him. so when they saw us they would try to get as much as they can to keep it going so nato secretary-general stoutenburgh is rejecting any military solution to the libyan crisis but offers help in creating effective security institutions now taken that nato is a military alliance 1st and foremost it is really unclear whether start number and

implies military assistance to either side or diplomatic help does libya need help from nato yes or no no no i don't think the he does again i mean of course i don't have internal information but this is what my understanding of the situation overall i mean i think everybody is coming out and seeing libya cannot be there is no military solution for libya libya's have to be a political solution and unfortunately we were only about 10 days away from the united nations general conference in libya and of course have there at the time if he did not attack tripoli who would have been seething on the table that he could have been part of the solution for the future but right now clearly he he does not want to see a political solution and he thought that he would be able to take over the country so he'd become the ultimate dictator that's what so he cannot be trusted to be

a partner in any political solution so let's see let's see about his opponent the genie's prime minister fayyad south sarraj has been on here pain tour lately meeting french german italian and british leaders and all this to trying to gain their support against. all they could give him was ruling out any military solution to the conflict and calling for dialogue. cheer and they have international support only on a paper. i mean clearly the mean janet has a limited international support and because it's clearly those countries that you have mentioned i mean some of them are not immediately a part of this this discount flipped i mean clearly. britain they are more you know the more busy with the brics that the germans they never taken any really position politically in the scholarly and of course when it come to italy and france these

are clearly they are conflicting partners and each one of them look at libya as as a place of as a center of interest for them and so so i don't think that that their support clearly the support that can be done is from the international community from is really to tell mr have to to back up to stop this nonsense stop killing there's an ascent be able both from these are all libyans i read it makes no difference can live i'm thinking of killing humans they're all dying for him do you think should the international community really wants to conflict to stop do you think they're really interested in this conflict to stop us. i believe many of the international community are interested to see this stop some of them for who they are supported and who they are rather than crawled the supplied with

with with the military equipment maybe those they would like to see the conflict to continue but in they are realizing many of them are realizing that khalifa haftar cannot take over 3 believe he cannot be able to do this so i expected them in the coming days and weeks they will back up and he will lose a lot of his international support and i think that international alliance that he has is starting to crack down so libya is obviously key for the west in preventing uncontrolled migration from africa to europe can this be the reason for the western powers staying on the sidelines to abstain from taking sides maybe. of course i mean with clearly mr huff that he promised them that he would take over he will stop this illegal immigration and so on and of course that's clearly is a problem for for for europe itself but of course the instability and what's going on right now is going to make the illegal immigration even to to to rise to increase because i mean of course if you look at the last couple of months or so in

the libyan navy we're blocking the lot of those immigrants and return them back into libya and so of course right though that is not going to happen and those people who would be very desperate because of the world that's going on because of all i mean as we know the the whole you have 2 forces they attacked some of the detention centers for the illegal immigrants and killed a number of them so all of those people know they're of so desperate and they might just go and try to take the risk to cross the with the training to go to europe so clearly it is not in their favor when stable libya can revive that protection for all of that and i think but but the instability and the war that's going on is not really have been this issue so france has been a longtime sympathizer of haft are and now the genie has threatened to suspend operations for $44.00 and companies in libya with french oil giant that that is

standing on to suffer the most it looks like prime minister seraj is hoping to ban paris have its costs hassett show than the right strategy. 1st of all i think the pros they are not the sympathizer they are a real supporter i mean i mean clearly the have supported tough talk during the water and been ghazi and we know very clearly that some of french troops they have been killed in that fight and of course the if there are they're supporting him again in this war and to believe because the and that's that's this what they are doing. and of course yes i mean clearly for us has a lot of economic interest in libya i mean truth to target many other companies who they are working to libya and froze those not help to stop this conflict i mean i don't see the libyan people accept to see the french companies are working to libya and making money and at the same time they are causing them to die and helping the person who wants to kill all libyans just with

a power all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to dr mustafa shad or the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing the current situation in the country stay with us. lake says and she forms part of a high altitude nature reserve. it's one of the famous charles internees years principal waterway starts its journey.

but the gulf can be sundown all the way to the top to bottom i've got a septic tank top. it runs 300 kilometers from source to mouth and there are over $200.00 industrial facilities ranged along its banks. and now then your muscle. limber. into 3 things. i might get out of them and to be here. the room irrigates over 4000 rice fields and supplies drinking water to 25000000 people. at the one point yes or so made by so many of us about us a member of our economy. join

me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. this footage is unique because the zoe tribal lands are normally off limits to the public eric's allowed in because he's lived his personal doctor. people here know him simply as dr eric he's rich famous some always on the move saving yachts and flying aircraft that. was on the. he's considered one of the best neurosurgeons in brazil. that's happening.

nothing's going to get the population is going to people. and we're back with dr bashar gore the former deputy prime minister of libya talking about the prospects for peace in a war torn country so you say that the only way to stop the leiby in turmoil is if the international community under united nations leadership puts pressure on have to but earlier this month just hours after the u.n. called for a truce hafter called on his troops to fight a bit harder this it would make sense to rely on the u.s.

help here one nobody really seems to be listening to them. i think it is i mean libyans they have lost trust in the united nations because i mean clearly over the last number of years they have not helped libya to be able to get out of this this is the ability. that is it is there is a number of countries in the and the world it is united they it's for united states it is russia it's france it is britain and so on who can really a bully image abroad. and and this is clearly it is in their own best interest because a stable libya is a country that can be a very important ally to all of them for both for fighting terrorism which right now because of this war that's going on in the stability terrorism can increase on those people from isis and darshan and so on they can find places to move easily.

and also the same time this is the the the libya. country stable libya which need to be developed it be built can open a lot of apartment is for all these countries and their companies so i think it is in the best interests of the international community especially the measure countries the major powers of the world is to come to help the libyan be able to stop this conflict to stop this war and clearly libyan people will be able to remember who will stand next to them and who will be helping those who are going to be killing them but in your opinion can any sort of confesses fair reach between now. and haftarah at this point without a 3rd party mediator. no i think that that needs immediate needs and that's where supposedly the united nations supposed to do is to become a really unbiased and fair mediator but of course unfortunately

i mean clearly i mean the mr salami his ties with the united arab emirates does not make him the. past might be able to help in that way. back home says he wants to meet after to discuss a cease fire and resume peace talks will have to listen to my call. will he listen to the other while he listened to the frail president at the uncovered no he is very desperate i doubt it i mean clearly mr mccrone gave have to restage more than once. and then he sees that no he is did not listen to him according to of course the french they said also that have to do more of them when he attacked tripoli even though there is evidence that they did but anyway. i don't think that have to right now have to he sees that his ambitions his

. life goal to be able to become the day to flee by is they mentioned and is is is not ever have been so he's desperate unfortunately only the forces that they fight for him for his name are the ones who they are paying the price so in early april u.s. secretary of state mike compare was calling on have to are to call a face offensive but just a few weeks later donald trump talked to how he felt after on the phone and according to the white house statement praised his role in fighting terrorism and securing libya's oil resources and does that mean that washington is now batting on the marshall. clearly there as i mean washington has many different positions in this case and very conflicting we have seen the congress the foreign affairs committee they have a meeting they have a hearing and clearly they condemned what house there was doing and even some of

them have a threatened that they going to ask the attorney general to investigate how fair is that war crime is a libya since he is a u.s. citizen and clearly the going to ask the f.b.i. and also attorney general to do that so there is a movement in washington which might change the position and of course we have seen many times the the mr trump has changed his position from the his 1st instinct that he took place trying to like to be on the losing side we all know this by now so is washington support a sign that despite the fact there have to as army has met stiff resistance it's actually on a path to winning no i think they clearly don't think they're betting on him winning i think things might change in washington itself and there is a lot of movement right know the different factions between the congress and the state department so on which are a little looking very closely to this and i don't think they believe that after

this is going to win because he is not. i'm sure they understand this but when it comes to libya foreign powers have been madly in its affair since the troubles began in 202011 now to have to or has political and military backing from egypt like was said the u.a.e. saudi arabia qatar and turkey have thrown their weight behind the g.n. 8 so is the current conflict really a proxy war or foreign actors rather than a merely domestic standoff. i mean did not get to the point becomes a brock's you would but b. because clearly if you look at the as you said the position of the president of turkey and the foreign minister for judea. for a judea tripoli is a very symbolic position because it supported the evolution no the sea the trouble is being bombed by the forces so i don't write the it is not a proxy war yet but i'm worried that this could be the. drug war might become ibrox

would these countries and maybe others now you've been telling me that the foreign interference is only exacerbating tensions in libya but this by the number of resolutions the un has passed imposing arms embargoes and defying any for intervention in libya has affairs weapons still flow into the country could a un peacekeeping mission help here i mean why wouldn't the jane eyre request a un peacekeeping mission. oh yeah i mean clearly even your right to me clearly that is there is there is a part or libya and women's has been flowing in libya specially from from egypt and out of emirates and others and they are both taking the united nations did not take a very serious position to really. to to enforce the same bargain there so clearly there is a united nations is becoming clear that becoming a very weak institution does not have much to offer to unfortunately the libyan

people to the others because again because of the dispute that is taking place inside the right nation for course we know the security council completely split between those members. and so they cannot even come to the agreement to even issue resolution any more just issue a very diplomatic statements which doesn't really help haftar has succeeded where the genie failed in libya's chaotic south rallying the local tribes around him why do you reject the idea that he can actually unify the whole libya. no he cannot unify libya because 1st of all he is a dictator. and he is not welcomed libyans they would like to see a country which is democratic it is a civil we are tolerant of the group by a military dictator whose we have been gone through no 4450 almost 50 years of this so the libyans they would like to see a civil government

a missing that is the g.n.a.t. is the perfect government for that but they would like to see a civil government they would like to see real participation they would like to see a real. mix change of power so it's peacefully and so other friends have thought of that not when the south and the south right now is but as it was when it is in chaos and when also when he was in the south he could to his his forces cope with a lot of war crimes against civilians in the south so so have to 1st of all if you look at the so-called libyan national army after it is made of few small groups of freo army people but they're the best out of militias who they call them a new son of the with me the supporters so he is not capable of doing that is not capable of stability in the country. so in a larger picture however a we've heard the cause for everyone to get together and work out

a way to unify libya for 80 years now and peace and stability looks as elusive now as it did in 2011 what's the better scenario for the country i can def a like strongman who would be able to drive the country towards at least a semblance of stability or a new civil war. clue don't have only these 2 options if you mention either a strong. family for half total or a civil war i mean there is a other option which is a political solution to the country and the 1st thing that the world need to do to stop those those countries who they are intervening in the country who they are supplying the water with with weapons and weapons and someone to leave the libyans alone and the libyans of the one left at all they will be able to come to a base will sort of whom they will be able to work together to overcome this and they will have a civil country civil government. and so but but

again this is where we are today and i hope that libya be able boat in both parts of the country in all parts of the country they would come to their senses on the staub their children from going to war against one another playing as healer same. as well and i don't buy that in themselves thank you so much for the century and what we're talking to truckers. or the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing the conflict in the country and whether writs going to and anytime soon that's it for this edition of self same call i'll see you next.

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